"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2460 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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Alan P's Avatar Alan P
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Some AVRs will let you adjust tone controls and still keep Audyssey active, some won't. I'm sure BatPig knows which ones are which.
mogorf's Avatar mogorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
I'm not having any audio setting problems thanks to many of you yet after reading comments regarding tone control I'm now a bit curious. In my Denon AVR 1912's Audio Adjust, Tone is gray thus not adjustable. Audyessy is in use.
That's the way it should be.
garygarrison's Avatar garygarrison
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Federo5 View Post
But it doesn't override or negate the audeseey settings right? It's just enhances them?
On my Marantz AV7005 (it's a preamp processor, very similar to the "front end" of Marantz AVRs, and some other AVRs) using the on-screen graphic EQ sliders (8 bands in bass, midrange and treble) DOES TURN AUDYSSEY OFF, while using the TONE controls for bass and treble under "Audio Adjust" DOES NOT. If in doubt, check to see if your Audyssey light is on, if you have one. The TONE controls (on mine) only have +/- 6 dB of range. I sometimes use them for music or movies that need them. The bad news is that if you use Dynamic EQ, the tone controls will not be available to you. I find I can get the best balance with Audyssey near Reference level, DEQ off, and occasional use of the true bass control (under "Audio Adjust"). Audyssey itself is not designed for optimizing program material, just the room and speakers. Many people find it a little bass shy.

Also beware any base (not bass) copy function. It doesn't copy the more than one hundred Audyssey corrections, but only crudely copies the curve at 8, or so, broad points. Chris K., the head of Audyssey, says it is best to not use it at all.

For bass comp, some people just turn up the sub, but that only helps below the crossover point (say, 80 Hz). If you need more bass impact at about 100 Hz or above, you would have to use the true TONE controls (not virtual sliders), or play considerably below Reference, and use DEQ.

I'm surprised you need treble boost, if Audyssey is set up right and your speakers have good high frequency response and are aimed right.

Good luck!
milehighou's Avatar milehighou
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After a lot of playing around, I've found that I prefer dynamic EQ off for 2-channel music. I did a lot of listening, and it just boosts the bass too much (even with reference offset on 15 dB). Audyssey and DynEQ seem fine for movies, but it's just not my thing for music. Anyone else agree?

For 2-channel, I'm using:

Bypass L/R
DynEQ off

Audyssey set my sub to -5.5dB, but for music, I raise it by 4 dB to -1.5dB. If if measure levels with these settings using a dB meter, I get a pretty balanced mix.

I do like how it EQs the sub. The bass seems cleaner and tighter with it on, but I don't like it messing with my mains,
remedy1978's Avatar remedy1978
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I ran Audyssey tonight with my Denon X3000. It set my mains to 100hz, center to 150hz, and surrounds to 80hz. I have RBH MC-6Cs for mains and surrounds and the MC-414C for my center.

Should I set the surrounds to 100hz same as my mains, or set everything to 150hz like the center?
Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 49Merc View Post
I'm not having any audio setting problems thanks to many of you yet after reading comments regarding tone control I'm now a bit curious. In my Denon AVR 1912's Audio Adjust, Tone is gray thus not adjustable. Audyessy is in use.
Tone controls in D+M equipment are an alternative to Dynamic EQ. When you disable DynEQ, the tone controls will be available.

One way of looking at it is that the tone controls can be used to optimize the bass and treble response at a single sound level, while DynEQ attempts to optimize the frequency response if you listen at a variety of sound levels. Many people like to listen at just one non-deafening sound level, so tone controls aren't all that bad a choice
mogorf's Avatar mogorf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post
Tone controls in D+M equipment are an alternative to Dynamic EQ. When you disable DynEQ, the tone controls will be available.

One way of looking at it is that the tone controls can be used to optimize the bass and treble response at a single sound level, while DynEQ attempts to optimize the frequency response if you listen at a variety of sound levels. Many people like to listen at just one non-deafening sound level, so tone controls aren't all that bad a choice
On a second note Selden, DEQ does a second-tier adjustment even at one Master Volume setting, namely it adjusts for the proper loudness curves on-the-fly, i.e. in real-time as the passage gets softer or louder. Conventional bass/treble tone controls don't have this feature. How important this unique aspect of DEQ is to someone is another question.
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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Forgive my ignorance, Audyssey set my sub level to -6.5dB, what happens when I move the level toward 0dB? I have Dynamic EQ On with Ref Level Offset at 5dB. Trying to increase mid base of my SVS PC-2000 that seems a little boomy on the low end.

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kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
As I noted above -- the dialogue level IS the center channel level. Exact same thing, just the setting in the Audio menu gives you a "shortcut" to the channel level without having to go into the speaker setup menus and run the test tones.

So it doesn't just boost the dialogue, it boosts EVERYTHING that the center channel reproduces.
It's a shame they didn't apply a little more intelligence to the dialogue level adjust. If it worked just on human speech frequencies, it would kinda make more sense, although it would unbalance the overall sound from the center channel. But raising the center channel level unbalances the sound of the overall system anyway so maybe people wouldn’t care. I still maintain that dialog clarity is the norm in all modern movies and if someone is having problems hearing dialog clearly then they need to find the underlying cause and fix it.
kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Forgive my ignorance, Audyssey set my sub level to -6.5dB, what happens when I move the level toward 0dB? I have Dynamic EQ On with Ref Level Offset at 5dB. Trying to increase mid base of my SVS PC-2000 that seems a little boomy on the low end.

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The sub gets louder.

If you are exciting room modes that have a tendency to cause boominess, then raising the level of the sub will exaggerate that boominess.
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
The sub gets louder.



If you are exciting room modes that have a tendency to cause boominess, then raising the level of the sub will exaggerate that boominess.

Thanks...are you saying the Dynamic EQ could be causing some of the boominess?


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Selden Ball's Avatar Selden Ball
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks...are you saying the Dynamic EQ could be causing some of the boominess?


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To the extent that it increases the relative level of the lower frequencies as you turn down the volume control, yes.

You might increasing the Reference Level Offset to see if you like having DynamicEQ referenced to a different volume level. (Increasing the RLO decreases the master volume setting at which DynEQ does nothing.) See g)3. What is Reference Level Offset in Dynamic EQ?

Check your subwoofer trim to make sure it isn't pegged at -12dB. If it is, turn down the gain control on your subwoofer and run the Audyssey calibration again. See e)6. What do I do if my trim levels are at the limits of their adjustment ('maxed out')? and f)3. How do I set the controls on my subwoofer before running MultEQ?

Boomy bass also is influenced by subwoofer location. Have you done a "sub crawl"?

Another cause of boominess is to use the setting "LFE+MAIN". See f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it?

If you haven't recently, please take the time to review the Audyssey 101/FAQ
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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@Selden Ball - Thanks!. No sub crawl...sub is to large. Thanks for the links.


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batpig's Avatar batpig
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Some AVRs will let you adjust tone controls and still keep Audyssey active, some won't. I'm sure BatPig knows which ones are which.
"You can't use tone controls with Audyssey" is a commonly mistated issue.

It is only Dynamic EQ that conflicts with tone controls, because DEQ is an automated tone control.

EVERY receiver with Audyssey lets you adjust tone controls with MultEQ active.

Remember "Audyssey" is not a monolith. It's multiple different technologies that do different things.
kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks...are you saying the Dynamic EQ could be causing some of the boominess?


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It depends. As you probably know, at lower frequencies, the room is basically what you are hearing. The room and the subwoofer interact together. This causes peaks and troughs in the frequency response. Peaks and troughs of as much as 20-30dB are not uncommon in acoustically untreated rooms.

Audyssey tries its best through electronic means (the creation of inverse filters) to fix these issues, but it has limitations to how effectively it can work. One such limitation is the extent of the initial problem. If your problem was so great that Audyssey is unable to fix it, then raising the subwoofer level will also raise the level of the problem. The result is you will more clearly hear the problem than you did when the bass was at a lower level. Taking it to the absurd, if you switch off the sub altogether, you will now hear no bass problems at all. But of course, neither will you hear the bass.

Dynamic EQ can make the problem appear to be worse because it boosts the bass as the volume is lowered on the Master Volume control. Switching DEQ off can therefore make the sound appear to be 'better'.

The best solution is to treat the room and to optimize the sub's position in it. If treating the room is not possible (WAF) then it is important to optmize the sub's location before you run Audyssey. If you have independent measuring capability such as with Room EQ Wizard and a calibrated mic, then that is the best way to optimize the sub location. It is outside the scope of this thread to go into detail into that but there is a dedicated REW thread on AVS which will help you. An alternative that can bring good results (but inferior to measuring) is to do the 'sub crawl'. If you don't know how to this just google it and you will find numerous helpful sites.
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It depends. As you probably know, at lower frequencies, the room is basically what you are hearing. The room and the subwoofer interact together. This causes peaks and troughs in the frequency response. Peaks and troughs of as much as 20-30dB are not uncommon in acoustically untreated rooms.



Audyssey tries its best through electronic means (the creation of inverse filters) to fix these issues, but it has limitations to how effectively it can work. One such limitation is the extent of the initial problem. If your problem was so great that Audyssey is unable to fix it, then raising the subwoofer level will also raise the level of the problem. The result is you will more clearly hear the problem than you did when the bass was at a lower level. Taking it to the absurd, if you switch off the sub altogether, you will now hear no bass problems at all. But of course, neither will you hear the bass.



Dynamic EQ can make the problem appear to be worse because it boosts the bass as the volume is lowered on the Master Volume control. Switching DEQ off can therefore make the sound appear to be 'better'.



The best solution is to treat the room and to optimize the sub's position in it. If treating the room is not possible (WAF) then it is important to optmize the sub's location before you run Audyssey. If you have independent measuring capability such as with Room EQ Wizard and a calibrated mic, then that is the best way to optimize the sub location. It is outside the scope of this thread to go into detail into that but there is a dedicated REW thread on AVS which will help you. An alternative that can bring good results (but inferior to measuring) is to do the 'sub crawl'. If you don't know how to this just google it and you will find numerous helpful sites.

Thanks...I'm seriously considering using the Room EQ Wizard. I don't believe the placement is bad cause I mostly notice the boominess at a lower volume level. Like you said, Dynamic EQ boosts the bass at lower volume. The higher volume level sounds fantastic with movies like oblivion and war of the worlds but concerned about disturbing the neighbors since I live in a townhouse. My wife likes to listen to movies at a lower level than I.


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kbarnes701's Avatar kbarnes701
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks...I'm seriously considering using the Room EQ Wizard. I don't believe the placement is bad cause I mostly notice the boominess at a lower volume level. Like you said, Dynamic EQ boosts the bass at lower volume. The higher volume level sounds fantastic with movies like oblivion and war of the worlds but concerned about disturbing the neighbors since I live in a townhouse. My wife likes to listen to movies at a lower level than I.


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In that case, try using RLO as Selden suggested. It may help. The FAQ has all the info.

WRT to REW, if you do, please download Jerry's Guide linked in my sig. It will save you hours of frustration.
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
In that case, try using RLO as Selden suggested. It may help. The FAQ has all the info.



WRT to REW, if you do, please download Jerry's Guide linked in my sig. It will save you hours of frustration.

Will do, thanks. RLO is currently at 10dB.


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mthomas47's Avatar mthomas47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Thanks...I'm seriously considering using the Room EQ Wizard. I don't believe the placement is bad cause I mostly notice the boominess at a lower volume level. Like you said, Dynamic EQ boosts the bass at lower volume. The higher volume level sounds fantastic with movies like oblivion and war of the worlds but concerned about disturbing the neighbors since I live in a townhouse. My wife likes to listen to movies at a lower level than I.


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If your receiver offers this function, you might also consider experimenting with low frequency containment, particularly for those times when you don't want to disturb your neighbors.
mbroadus's Avatar mbroadus
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
If your receiver offers this function, you might also consider experimenting with low frequency containment, particularly for those times when you don't want to disturb your neighbors.

Night mode? I don't believe my receiver offers this, it's a Marantz NR-1504.

Just ran the sub through its paces using war of the worlds to show the wife what the sub could do since yesterday's calibration. Sounded fantastic at mid and high volume. No boominess or bloating.


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OfficialPG's Avatar OfficialPG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Night mode? I don't believe my receiver offers this, it's a Marantz NR-1504.

Just ran the sub through its paces using war of the worlds to show the wife what the sub could do since yesterday's calibration. Sounded fantastic at mid and high volume. No boominess or bloating.


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Night mode is the dynamic volume setting on your receiver if I'm not mistaken.
NorthSky's Avatar NorthSky
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
Night mode? I don't believe my receiver offers this, it's a Marantz NR-1504.

Night Mode Dynamic Range; yes, the Marantz NR1504 receiver has that listening mode feature in it.
tommaazz's Avatar tommaazz
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Hi guys i have a question about dual sub...i have received my 2nd sb13ultra and i have xt32 (with subEQHT). I want to ask you what are my target settings for subs...should i put the same gain on the amp (might be a different AVR trim) or should i go for the same AVR trim...i will put my subs around 5db hot so i am targeting around -7 or -8 avr trim. Thanks
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