"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2481 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #74401 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
I have run Audyssey Pro many times without incidence but got this message today and have no clue what it means (new speakers -Triad Plat for LCR and in room silver monitors for 4 surrounds).

This was the 2nd run so turned off the center channel and subs to speed up the process.

I have no idea what this means.

Setup screen:



Error Message:

It means that Pro thinks you have specified a set of speakers that are not in the right place. For example, if you had a 5.1 system and you told Pro that you had Left, Right, Center, Surround Left and Surround Right set up but in reality you had connected the SL and SR to the Rear SL and Rear SR. Are you sure your config in Pro and your actual speaker layout are the same?

BTW - very nice speaker choice!

Last edited by kbarnes701; Yesterday at 11:49 AM.
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post #74402 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It means that Pro thinks you have specified a set of speakers that are not in the right place. For example, if you had a 5.1 system and you told Pro that you had Left, Right, Center, Surround Left and Surround Right set up but in reality you had connected the SL and SR to the Rear SL and Rear SR. Are you sure your config in Pro and your actual speaker layout are the same?

BTW - very nice speaker choice!
Thanks for the speaker choice complement. Other than 2 channel I have yet to hear them until I got Audyssey run. Hence I would like to get this problem solved.

I have a 7702. (my solved "hum" problem has returned with a vengence). Ran the trim/volume test and each speaker played when it was supposed to. So it is physically set up correctly and I told Audyssey how it was set up.

As you can see from my speaker configuration screen, I have told Audyssey that I have Surrounds and Rears. I originally told it I had 3 front channels and two subs as well but when I got the error message the first time, I told Audyssey I did not have subs or a center channel to speed up the incrediblly slow Pro process.

I will try regular Audyssey and see what happens!!

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post #74403 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
Ok I will just have to find out how to disable the center in the settings since I already have it ran.

I am doing this because I just am not happy wih the way any center sounds unless it's thr EXACT same speaker as my left and right.

I don't have room for a acoustic transparent screen so I am going to give the phantom a try.
I knock out my center when I play music, but like the way the center anchors dialogue for movies and TV. Depending on what kind of surround processing you are using, you might try experimenting with less center and more fronts, rather than entirely excluding the center. For instance in PLIIx Music Mode, you can spread the center sound incrementally to the fronts. Other technologies can give you similar options. That's just something you could consider to improve the blend if you aren't content with the phantom center.
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post #74404 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 12:53 PM
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I still don't understand the need for this. When you play music, the center channel is not used unless it's a 5.1 track.
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post #74405 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I still don't understand the need for this. When you play music, the center channel is not used unless it's a 5.1 track.
What? If you use Dolby PLII Music, the center channel gets a lot of action, even for 2.0 sources.
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post #74406 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
Thanks for the speaker choice complement. Other than 2 channel I have yet to hear them until I got Audyssey run. Hence I would like to get this problem solved.

I have a 7702. (my solved "hum" problem has returned with a vengence). Ran the trim/volume test and each speaker played when it was supposed to. So it is physically set up correctly and I told Audyssey how it was set up.

As you can see from my speaker configuration screen, I have told Audyssey that I have Surrounds and Rears. I originally told it I had 3 front channels and two subs as well but when I got the error message the first time, I told Audyssey I did not have subs or a center channel to speed up the incrediblly slow Pro process.

I will try regular Audyssey and see what happens!!
It's very odd then. Let us know what regular Audyssey finds.
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post #74407 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What? If you use Dolby PLII Music, the center channel gets a lot of action, even for 2.0 sources.
But why would you use PLII if you don't like your center channel and want it off for music?

Unless he has a 4.1 setup where his rears are the same. Unless I missed it, he hasn't explained this.

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post #74408 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
But why would you use PLII if you don't like your center channel and want it off for music?

Unless he has a 4.1 setup where his rears are the same. Unless I missed it, he hasn't explained this.
In the event that that is what the OP wants to do, he would simply go into the speaker configuration page of the GUI and change center channel from "1" to "None". Still unsure what he (or anyone) would want to do this, unless the center channel is a real POS.

Edit: Since, IMO, the center channel is so important for the overall sound of an audio system, the best answer is to either replace the speaker itself, or figure out why it sounds bad.
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post #74409 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
In the event that that is what the OP wants to do, he would simply go into the speaker configuration page of the GUI and change center channel from "1" to "None". Still unsure what he (or anyone) would want to do this, unless the center channel is a real POS.

Edit: Since, IMO, the center channel is so important for the overall sound of an audio system, the best answer is to either replace the speaker itself, or figure out why it sounds bad.
The OP has what I would consider a very good center of the same make as his fronts, but a different model. He said that he wasn't satisfied unless all three were an exact acoustic match. Creating a phantom center would be one solution, and I suggested redistributing some of the center to the fronts as an alternative to eliminating the center entirely. I would tend to agree with you that the center is so important for movies and TV that replacing the center, or finding some kind of workable compromise through PLIIx, or some other surround mode, would be the best solution. But I know people who happily operate with nothing but a phantom center, so I guess preferences vary.

In my own case, I spent more than a decade acquiring and customizing six vintage speakers for my music system. It is not possible to match them musically with a center, but I don't mind the center for movies and TV. That's why I use PLIIx in the way I mentioned. (It seemed impolite not to explain my reasons for doing it this way since the question came up.)
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post #74410 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 03:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What? If you use Dolby PLII Music, the center channel gets a lot of action, even for 2.0 sources.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
But why would you use PLII if you don't like your center channel and want it off for music?

Unless he has a 4.1 setup where his rears are the same. Unless I missed it, he hasn't explained this.
Note that you can actually mute the center channel in PLII Music mode by setting the Center Width parameter to the max value (everything to the FR/FL, nothing to the CC).

Not completely relevant to the OP's question but since it was brought up, wanted to point it out.
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post #74411 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 03:37 PM
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So PLII music mode will distribute more to my front left and right speakers without making any other changes.

Maybe I was just to afraid to let go the format it was filmed with like dolby hd or master.
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post #74412 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It's very odd then. Let us know what regular Audyssey finds.
It worked perfect. Sounds more than good enough for now. I will investigate the Pro issue when I have more time.

As Harry Pearson once said to me: "If it works right the first time, it's not High End".

So there you have it.

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post #74413 of 74422 Old Yesterday, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Everything in your room should be exactly the same when you calibrate as it is when you listen to music or run a movie, especially something like a large expanse of glass.
I agree in principal, but it can never be exactly the same for calibration because there will be no people sitting on the furniture. I would imagine that something as large as a human would have some effects on the way sound travels around the room... I don't think anyone has reported on an attempt to measure that effect.

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post #74414 of 74422 Old Today, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
I agree in principal, but it can never be exactly the same for calibration because there will be no people sitting on the furniture. I would imagine that something as large as a human would have some effects on the way sound travels around the room... I don't think anyone has reported on an attempt to measure that effect.
That's why we had a discussion on sitting in the listening position during measurement recently.

Decades/centuries from now, our descendants might talk about the lost audiophile art of holding your breath while balancing the mic on your nose to obtain the perfect zen measurements.
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post #74415 of 74422 Old Today, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post
It worked perfect. Sounds more than good enough for now. I will investigate the Pro issue when I have more time.

As Harry Pearson once said to me: "If it works right the first time, it's not High End".

So there you have it.
LOL. Glad you are back up and running. Hope the Pro thing resolves itself when you next try it.
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post #74416 of 74422 Old Today, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Holiday121 View Post
So PLII music mode will distribute more to my front left and right speakers without making any other changes.

Maybe I was just to afraid to let go the format it was filmed with like dolby hd or master.

You probably already know this, but Pro Logic (PL-II) is a Dolby technology. The various versions of PL-II will simply pass through a 5.1 signal to a 5.1 system. You can then choose to change the way the sound is distributed to the various speakers via your AVR controls. The real advantage comes in with a stereo recording, which will be redistributed to a 5.1 system, or with a 5.1 recording, which will be redistributed to a 7.1 or larger system. Give it a try and see whether you like the way it sounds.
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Originally Posted by IgorZep View Post
On a well designed FIR (at least for audio processing) you won't be able to find where it ends just by barely looking at the measured impulse response. The higher the frequency - the less time from the impulse peak you can do something useful to correct, it there are still some visible oscillations at a distance significantly more than wavelength of particular frequency/range - it is not a correction anymore, it is an added distortion, that could become audible at some point. Also the end of the filter should be properly fade-out to avoid echo. If you see a 'cut' in the impulse response - there is an echo in the sound.
Igor, thanks and sorry for a late reply. Yet, IMHO your wording seems a bit far from "everyday use", it seems like a conversation between two qualified FIR filter designers, meantime a bit hard to consume/understand/digest by most of mortals. Care to draft an explanation a tad bit closer to Layman's?

Me thinks the above description referenced in the FAQ wouldn't really look good.

Keith?
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post #74418 of 74422 Unread Today, 02:37 PM
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Igor, thanks and sorry for a late reply. Yet, IMHO your wording seems a bit far from "everyday use", it seems like a conversation between two qualified FIR filter designers, meantime a bit hard to consume/understand/digest by most of mortals. Care to draft an explanation a tad bit closer to Layman's?

Me thinks the above description referenced in the FAQ wouldn't really look good.

Keith?
The description referenced is very technical I agree - perhaps even too technical for a "technical addendum" to the FAQ. I am more or less ready to draft the text for the additional copy but I will hold back a while to see if Igor can explain the FIR issue in more "everyday" terms I don't think we need incredible detail anyway - the main takeaway is the view that MultEQ might be a better choice than XT (in some circumstances) because it has the potential to "do less harm" in the upper frequencies than XT. The graphs already provided show that quite well I think.
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Everything in your room should be exactly the same when you calibrate as it is when you listen to music or run a movie, especially something like a large expanse of glass.

.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
I agree in principal, but it can never be exactly the same for calibration because there will be no people sitting on the furniture. I would imagine that something as large as a human would have some effects on the way sound travels around the room... I don't think anyone has reported on an attempt to measure that effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
That's why we had a discussion on sitting in the listening position during measurement recently.

Decades/centuries from now, our descendants might talk about the lost audiophile art of holding your breath while balancing the mic on your nose to obtain the perfect zen measurements.
I agree that a room will sound different with no people sitting in the furniture. I guess I was just cautioning against calibrating with drapes covering the glass, then, perhaps, listening with the glass exposed.

Decades ago, I read about recordists putting burlap sacks of something (grain? rags?) in the empty seats near the orchestra to simulate people, in order to make a good recording in an empty concert hall.

I love the idea of putting small microphones in front of either ear, One could hire 5 or 6 unemployed people to sit there with microphones strapped on during Audyssey calibration. Yes, Soulburner, they should definitely hold their collective breath and restrict any flatulence. I wouldn't rely on them balancing microphones on their noses, though, unless Audyssey comes up with some fuzzy logic algorithm to account for the microphones swaying back and forth.

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post #74420 of 74422 Unread Today, 02:50 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
One could hire 5 or 6 unemployed people to sit there with microphones strapped on during Audyssey calibration. Yes, Soulburner, they should definitely hold their collective breath and restrict any flatulence. I wouldn't rely on them balancing microphones on their noses, though, unless Audyssey comes up with some fuzzy logic algorhythm to account for the microphones swaying back and forth.
Cadavers. That's what's needed. The automobile industry uses them for testing the effects of collision impact on the human body. We can get the cadavers first, use them for calibration, and then pass them on to Ford.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-11-...1_safety-tests

http://jalopnik.com/5622667/how-a-ca...your-car-safer
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Cadavers. That's what's needed. The automobile industry uses them for testing the effects of collision impact on the human body. We can get the cadavers first, use them for calibration, and then pass them on to Ford.

http://articles.latimes.com/1993-11-...1_safety-tests

http://jalopnik.com/5622667/how-a-ca...your-car-safer
B stock cadavers
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post #74422 of 74422 Unread Today, 03:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I agree that a room will sound different with no people sitting in the furniture. I guess I was just cautioning against calibrating with drapes covering the glass, then, perhaps, listening with the glass exposed.

Decades ago, I read about recordists putting burlap sacks of something (grain? rags?) in the empty seats near the orchestra to simulate people, in order to make a good recording in an empty concert hall.

I love the idea of putting small microphones in front of either ear, One could hire 5 or 6 unemployed people to sit there with microphones strapped on during Audyssey calibration. Yes, Soulburner, they should definitely hold their collective breath and restrict any flatulence. I wouldn't rely on them balancing microphones on their noses, though, unless Audyssey comes up with some fuzzy logic algorithm to account for the microphones swaying back and forth.
Sorry, isn't this getting a bit ridiculous? In my many, many Audyssey calibrations, I have found no evidence that the presence of a large mass occupying the MLP chair produces a measurable difference in calibration results. I certainly agree that one should not remove furniture, etc. to "game" the calibration, but other than those general guidelines, anything more obsessive is just that--obsessive.
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