"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2484 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #74491 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It's easy to overthink this. We usually measure a room without an audience in it for example. Then we happily play back with two, three or more people sitting in the room - all significant, non-reflective masses.
How about those "two, three or more people sitting in the room" all dressed up in (reflective) leather gear?

Just couldn't resist!

Have a nice, overthinking-free weekend all!!
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post #74492 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 03:23 PM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
Ok, if you have a leather couch, yeah, you can put a blanket on top of it to take Audyssey measurements with the mic.

And if you have a glass coffee table between you and your screen, put a blanket on top of it too.
And if you have large reflective windows all around, close the curtains.

Brief, cover any highly reflective surface near by.
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
But then if after calibration you uncover them and go back to business as usual, you're going to have problems.


I agree with both of you, that in general you don't want to change anything between calibration and playback. But without wishing to be argumentative, I would cite the blanket over the couch back as an exception to that general rule. Getting the Audyssey mic too close to a hard surface such as a leather fabric "may" cause problems. No guarantee that it will, but it may. That is because the mic can pick-up short wavelength, high-frequency reflections from the hard surface only 3"-6" away, let's say, and attempt to over-correct for them. In my room, that created a rather harsh treble sound even with XT-32.

There are three ways that you can try to avoid that comb filtering effect from having your mic too close to a hard surface during calibration. The first is to move the mic forward another 12" or so. The second is to raise the mic 6" or so above the surface of the couch. The first two were often recommended by Audyssey when someone asked about proximity between the mic and a leather chair back. The third method is to temporarily cover the hard surface with something absorbent, like a soft towel or a blanket.

But all three measures are temporary, and just apply to the calibration. If you move the mic forward away from your chair, it is not recommended that you hunch forward where the mic was during movie or music playback. Similarly, if you raise the mic, you don't have to put your chair on risers, or sit on pillows to get up to where the mic was. And you don't have to leave the towel or blanket in place either.

I think we tend to obsess about this stuff a lot, as Jerry said in response to the jokes a few posts back. It may not be necessary to worry about doing any of the precautions I mentioned to get a good calibration. But if you are concerned, or are hearing something amiss in the higher frequencies, then finding a way to avoid comb filtering during calibration is worth trying, and the temporary blanket method is a good one.
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post #74493 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I would agree with the exception of covering the reflective backs of chairs. Leaving them uncovered during the calibration is likely to cause more problems than removing them for listening would. If you have measuring capability, it's an easy test. With my leather chairs 'bare' there was a significant difference - and not a good one - between that cal and one with the chairs covered for the cal.

It's easy to overthink this. We usually measure a room without an audience in it for example. Then we happily play back with two, three or more people sitting in the room - all significant, non-reflective masses.
But I was talking about post-calibration. If you go to those lengths for measurement, then un-do it all you end up with issues because you increase the reflectivity of the room. Correct?

Last edited by Soulburner; 02-28-2015 at 05:30 PM.
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post #74494 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 03:49 PM
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There is a balance. ...Like in all things life.

I agree with the couch thing, because of the Audyssey mic nearby. ...The rest is different, in direct relation to the mic measurements.

And, really, who wants to watch John Wick in a very highly reflective room? ...C'mon now, John Wick deserves much better than that.

______

If your room is less than perfect, and you took Audyssey measurements with a bunch of reflective surfaces, and you listen too with a bunch of reflective surfaces; just turn Audyssey Off and see what happens.

Or two, change your environment for the best (acoustic sound wise) .....Before and after Audyssey Room Calibration and EQ measurements and final results.
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post #74495 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post

♦ If you get those two mic adapters, you can put your boom anywhere and install the Audyssey mic in any position you like (normally upright).

The first pic on top is the standard mic 5/8" to 3/8" male screw adapter (perfect for the 1/4" hole of a camera and the Audyssey mic).

The second pic (with two lengths) is for total flexibility; the one you attach first, then that small adapter from the top pic to it.
Thanks, but I decided to try buying a shorter mic stand and use the camera adapter recommended in the FAQ, which allows the mic to be tilted upwards when the boom is pointed up to reach a low seating position, but which is useless for a low seating with taller the On Stage boom mic stand. The stand I bought is the same price as the Rode adapter you pictured"
http://www.amazon.com/Samson-MB1-Min...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t

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post #74496 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
Thanks, but I decided to try buying a shorter mic stand and use the camera adapter recommended in the FAQ, which allows the mic to be tilted upwards when the boom is pointed up to reach a low seating position, but which is useless for a low seating with taller the On Stage boom mic stand. The stand I bought is the same price as the Rode adapter you pictured"
http://www.amazon.com/Samson-MB1-Min...=cm_cr_pr_pb_t
That is perfect too, for most people.

* That Audyssey pyramid shaped mic; I wish they change the design for a real mic, a la Anthem for example.
Then we wouldn't have so many issues with that mickey mouse Audyssey mic.

Audyssey should keep improving, everything. But helas. It is going the way of the dodo. ...And life is following its course onto better horizons.

Even Keith has abandoned XT32 in favor of Dirac Live. ...Jerry too. ...And I'm next, along with Feri.
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post #74497 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
But I was talking about post-calibration. If you go to those lengths for measurement, then un-do it all you end up with issues because you increase the reflectivity of the room.
We can sit here and express opinions until the cows come home. But ultimately, you need to determine the approach that works best for you. That means take one calibration leaving the blanket off the back of the chair. Then conduct a listening test or, better yet, take some REW measurements. Then use the network save capability and preserve the calibration results. Run a new calibration with a blanket to eliminate the reflections. Repeat the listening and/or measurement tests, and pick the result you find most pleasing.

I have a lot of respect for people who experiment with various approaches and report results back here. I have less respect for people who take a stand without providing supporting facts.
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post #74498 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 08:45 PM
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I confess I did the blanket treatment as i have leather furniture and it did fix the muffled highs issue I was having. If I dont use the blanket, I wind up with virtually no treble after calibration. As in earlier posts, I'm looking into some sort of room treatments as I have a lot of reflective bare wall space. Not sure the direction I'm going with it yet but I'd like to try something.
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post #74499 of 74514 Old 02-28-2015, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by dunan View Post
I confess I did the blanket treatment as i have leather furniture and it did fix the muffled highs issue I was having. If I dont use the blanket, I wind up with virtually no treble after calibration. As in earlier posts, I'm looking into some sort of room treatments as I have a lot of reflective bare wall space. Not sure the direction I'm going with it yet but I'd like to try something.
Yeah, I was more responding to the post about covering a glass table, closing blinds, etc. I simply mentioned that if you calibrate that way, you should also do that for actual movie watching because that is how the system is calibrated.

Jerry's guide for REW contains some pointers on how to find reflection points and treat them, however it has been said by (I believe it was Floyd Toole) that people tend to prefer the sound of untreated side walls for music because it creates a larger soundstage. I plan on making my own with custom printed fabric, so whenver I get around to that I'll experiment with placement and see if I can replicate those findings. In the end it's up to us to decide what sounds best.

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post #74500 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
But I was talking about post-calibration. If you go to those lengths for measurement, then un-do it all you end up with issues because you increase the reflectivity of the room. Correct?
As I said, and as mthomas just above has said with great eloquence, reflections from the seat backs do more harm than covering the seat backs during calibration. I have even verified it with REW. You don't have to follow this advice - if you prefer to measure with your mic close to a reflective surface, by all means do so.
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post #74501 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 05:46 AM
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Regarding sub distance tweak after audyssey, can I adjust the distance for my center speaker instead of adjusting the distance of sub?
The problem is that the current sub distance xo nicely with my main left and right, but not with my center. Any attempt to tweak the sub distance will make the xo with mains worse.
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post #74502 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Regarding sub distance tweak after audyssey, can I adjust the distance for my center speaker instead of adjusting the distance of sub?
The problem is that the current sub distance xo nicely with my main left and right, but not with my center. Any attempt to tweak the sub distance will make the xo with mains worse.
In my experience using the sub distance tweak, the sub distance yielding the best results is often slightly different for the center as it is with the left and right speakers. Since the splice between the center channel and the subs is the most important for smooth bass, my recommendation is to accept the sub distance that is best for the center channel. I believe this is also the recommendation in the written procedure. If the difference is significant, you might experiment with an average of the two distances.

I would never adjust the center channel difference--this will throw it out of whack with the rest of the speakers, and could affect dialog intelligibility, which would be far less desirable than a slight compromise in bass smoothness, IMO.
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post #74503 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
As I said, and as mthomas just above has said with great eloquence, reflections from the seat backs do more harm than covering the seat backs during calibration. I have even verified it with REW. You don't have to follow this advice - if you prefer to measure with your mic close to a reflective surface, by all means do so.
Where did I say I wanted to do that? I'm advocating covering surfaces.

???
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post #74504 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 10:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Regarding sub distance tweak after audyssey, can I adjust the distance for my center speaker instead of adjusting the distance of sub?
The problem is that the current sub distance xo nicely with my main left and right, but not with my center. Any attempt to tweak the sub distance will make the xo with mains worse.
I agree with Jerry. As the Guide says, you have to compromise. Get the sub/center channel splice as smooth as possible and then check the L&R, making adjustments to each until they are acceptable. Then go back and re-check the center. If the center is noticeably worse than before, adjust again. You can repeat this ad infinitum until you get a decent splice for all three, or your patience runs out. IMO it is best to optimise for the center channel as it is this channel which does most of the work and the one where you will notice anomalies more.
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post #74505 of 74514 Old 03-01-2015, 05:38 PM
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This is a photo of the Samson MB1 boom mic stand adjusted so that the On Stage adapter (recommended in the FAQ) on its tip will hold the Audyssey mic 36" from the floor and pointed to the ceiling. This is much easier to use for Audyssey calibration at lower seating positions than the On Stage mic stand recommended in the FAQ. Also, unlike the On Stage, the boom on this one stays at its set height. I bought it from Amazon.


Samson also makes a taller mic stand that is better is sturdier than the On Stage one, at a similar price.
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post #74506 of 74514 Old Yesterday, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbarach View Post
This is a photo of the Samson MB1 boom mic stand adjusted so that the On Stage adapter (recommended in the FAQ) on its tip will hold the Audyssey mic 36" from the floor and pointed to the ceiling. This is much easier to use for Audyssey calibration at lower seating positions than the On Stage mic stand recommended in the FAQ. Also, unlike the On Stage, the boom on this one stays at its set height. I bought it from Amazon.


Samson also makes a taller mic stand that is better is sturdier than the On Stage one, at a similar price.
Do you have a link to where you bought that stand? I will add it to the FAQ answer if so. It looks like a good stand.
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post #74507 of 74514 Old Yesterday, 08:21 AM
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Just go to Amazon and search for Samson MB-1.
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post #74508 of 74514 Old Yesterday, 01:05 PM
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I didn`t have any problems using the Denon`s included mic stand . The second time , I was very careful and exact about the positioning of the mic /stand on the 8 positions required and specially on the height of the mic . I took my time on every positioning of the mic to make sure it was exactly correct and 15 inches away from the recliner`s back and slightly above it on the rear positions .
At first , I ran Audyssey to have a feel of the procedure ; then I ran it a second time , this time being very, very careful on how I did it and the end differences were small and very few ... just a couple of speakers had the crossovers changed a little bit and that was it . I went with the second numbers , nonetheless . Even the distances were the same as the first run and also correct (I confirmed it with my tape measure) . I did it at night , disconnected the Fridge and took away the kitchen clock, which is somewhat noised , so it was very quiet .
I did not use blankets or anything ... I figured that I should make the measurements in the same way I will be listening , so that was it, and so far , Audyssey has done an incredible job .
No need for any more Audyssey runs , it works beautifully . I cut have use a spotting scope stand that I have , but it was really no need for it and the included stand slides up and down and worked great . I used small pieces of masking tape in a couple of positions to make sure the stand would not move at all , but I had no difficulty at all , really .
Just to point out that after some small tweaks on Audyssey ( running on multi EQ Flat with 10DB offset and a couple crossovers lowered on some speakers to increase their bass and raising the subs 4 DB ) to dampen the treble harshness , the receiver now , after a couple of weeks of use has been mellowing its tone and now even the bass sounds great . I left the Blu Ray input on multiEQ Reference and 0 offset for the movies .
I have known for many years that sound equipment , specially Hi-end equipment sound a little harsh when new and it mellows after use (it is called a break in ) , so anyway , my 7200W is now sounding pretty much great .
The two times I ran Ausyssey was enough and the result is spectacular ... no need for more and frankly, it is puzzling to me that some have to run Audyssey many times and have problems obtaining good result s .
Come to think of it , I think that one of the most important reasons for a good Audyssey result is the exact , correct positioning of the speakers . If the speakers are correctly positioned , you have a great chance of getting a nice Audyssey measurement and consequently , great sound after that , in my humble opinion .

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post #74509 of 74514 Unread Yesterday, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by josey88 View Post
I didn`t have any problems using the Denon`s included mic stand .
What mic stand? In the US, the Denons come only with the pyramid-shaped mic with a camera-sized screwhole on the bottom.

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Apparently you don't know about the magical cardboard rocket ship tower that comes with the newest Denons

Josey has a X7200W which comes with this, useful when you don't have a tripod.
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I didn't get one with my X4000 or E300, so this magical cardboard rocketship must be a 2014 thing. Makes me kinda jealous
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I am seeing this quite often when trying to edit the FAQ in this thread:

I have seen that as well on occasion, Keith, but it usually goes away. No clue why it happens. Perhaps reporting it in the Forum Ops section will get some relief.
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post #74514 of 74514 Unread Today, 07:09 AM
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