"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2501 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75001 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 05:50 PM
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An example of 2 subs seem decent, introduce another channel and DIP DIP DIP away.


OH and that center is crossed at 90, so why is it wrecking line. DOWN THE RABBITT HOLE


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post #75002 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Is this a single measurement at the MLP or an averaged result of measurements taken at multiple point "a la" Audyssey style?
Single at MLP
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post #75003 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
Single at MLP
Care to do it with a couple of measurements and average them in REW? Let's see the difference?
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post #75004 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:01 PM
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Some interesting discussion in this thread
Could you Audyssey experts chime-in please...
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post #75005 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Care to do it with a couple of measurements and average them in REW? Let's see the difference?
For sure I will....I might lose my wife after this, but at least I will have a better sounding theater
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post #75006 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
For sure I will....I might lose my wife after this, but at least I will have a better sounding theater
Compromise, compromise, compromise,...
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post #75007 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Compromise, compromise, compromise,...

One minor issue to explain is I had dynamic volume on by mistakes, which is why subs were boosted...fixed that same results....then the average....I assume this means I really have LRC speaker issues that I need to adjust vs my subs.


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post #75008 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM
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for fun, 2 different mic positions...un-averaged...looks like my MLP is in a terrible spot :-(


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post #75009 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:21 PM
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So is it possible, that my entire rabbit hole is in my head. I moved the mic 3" right of the MLP and wow...what a difference.


My MLP is a black hole...go figure. Is it safe to say I should stop what I am doing and be happy....or can you suggest more chasing.


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post #75010 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:27 PM
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And for more fun.....my right MLP madness and then move and all is nicer :-(


Wait, I have the answer...I will simply move my center seat, and call it a day


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post #75011 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM
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So then I keep reading....and the sub distance tweak talks about messing with the sub distances for both subs, well my AVR only has one distance setting....does the article apply to folks like us as well ? Sorry if I missed it in the guide, I think I am burning out tonight.
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post #75012 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 07:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
And for more fun.....my right MLP madness and then move and all is nicer :-(


Wait, I have the answer...I will simply move my center seat, and call it a day


Vertical axis needs to be adjusted to 5db increments - will give more focus to what is happening in your room

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post #75013 of 75029 Old Yesterday, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
So then I keep reading....and the sub distance tweak talks about messing with the sub distances for both subs, well my AVR only has one distance setting....does the article apply to folks like us as well ? Sorry if I missed it in the guide, I think I am burning out tonight.
The approach is to first get the subs playing well together. If you have a version of Audysssey that only has one channel, then you optomize how the subs play together by placement. Once the combined sub response is as smooth as you can get it, measure the subs with the mains (preferably the center channel). Adjust the single sub distance until the bass response around the crossover is as smooth as you can get it. That's how it is done with only one sub channel.
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post #75014 of 75029 Unread Today, 04:46 AM
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Hey

For a calibration with the couch right against a cement wall which would place the first and most important mic placement only 20 inces from the wall and less than a foot from the couch cushion, is this ok for the first reading and than 2 feet from the back wall for the next 7 or should I do all 2 feet to avoid reflection. Does it matter if the first reading is further back than all the rest so its the true listening position and than the rest of the placements are at ear level but 24-26 inches from the wall. Thanks in advance. I just got a new microphone and realize my old one must of been damaged. My old mic gave the correct distances but the levels of the speakers were where my new mic has them, the old one kept creeping up, for example months ago it started with always making my fronts LARGE, with a -7 db, the center would be -7.5. Recently before the new mic the fronts were -9 and the center was -11, also during tests usually the 6-8 chirps required two sets for the woofer. The new mic is back to "normal" I guess, but that also means more sensitive to my bad acoustic set up. Any tip on where I should place the initial mic for a couch thats against a cement wall and cant be moved would be great. I have run 5 tests can;t get a good one with an "open" center sound.
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post #75015 of 75029 Unread Today, 05:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The approach is to first get the subs playing well together. If you have a version of Audysssey that only has one channel, then you optomize how the subs play together by placement. Once the combined sub response is as smooth as you can get it, measure the subs with the mains (preferably the center channel). Adjust the single sub distance until the bass response around the crossover is as smooth as you can get it. That's how it is done with only one sub channel.
So my madness continues...I move the Subs from 15.5 to 19.5 and BAM, looks like I fixed (or made much better) the center cross.
But then look what happens when I turn Audyssey back on - I am back to being lost again.



Now with Audyssey back on. The red line is Audyssey in case the legend is small

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post #75016 of 75029 Unread Today, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
So my madness continues...I move the Subs from 15.5 to 19.5 and BAM, looks like I fixed (or made much better) the center cross.
But then look what happens when I turn Audyssey back on - I am back to being lost again.
It is unclear what your graphs represent. You should be doing this:

- Turn Audyssey off.
- Position the sub for smoothest response.
- Measure sub only response with Audyssey off and post results.
- Run a fresh Audyssey calibration with sub in its new spot.
- Measure sub+center with Audyssey on. How does the crossover region look?
- Adjust sub distance to achieve the smoothest response at the crossover.
- Conduct the final measurement and post results.
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post #75017 of 75029 Unread Today, 06:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
+1. Meantime, Alan, I always thought subs work in the "good old" analog domain, and so there is no DSP (Digital Signal Processing) involed in the sub amps. I may be wrong here!
The Seaton Submersives have DSP for sure. In fact, Mark has always maintained that much of his development work on the Submersives was getting the DSP right, working in conjunction with the amp manufacturer. Additionally, the Submersive has two DSP programs built into the amp. Program 1 is the 'normal' mode and Program 2 gives a small boost from about 30 Hz down, as well as possibly other 'secret sauce' changes known only to Mark.
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post #75018 of 75029 Unread Today, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Most modern subs have some sort of signal shaping via DSP integrated in their amps...I know mine does (along with all PSA subs). I also know that all the big ID companies use DSP to shape the FR of their subs...in fact, I can't think of a single modern sub that does not use DSP. The DIY'ers prefer amps with DSP (and PEQ, and limiters, and etc, etc).
Subs are 'active' speakers in effect. One of the reasons active speakers often outperform similar passive designs is the use of DSP in the active speaker amps. Because the designer knows precisely what drivers are being used together with what amps, he can tweak the DSP to get the maximum performance from the speakers, without fear of overdriving etc, which is something he cannot do with passive designs where the partnered amp is an unknown. In the latter case the designer will usually err on the side of caution, whereas with the known combination he can push for maximum performance.

So it would be crazy IMO for a commercial sub not to use DSP to maxmise performance.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
For sure I will....I might lose my wife after this, but at least I will have a better sounding theater
Having done this several times myself, I'd be surprised if you see much difference from a single point REW measurement and a multiple point averaged measurement. But it's worth doing if only to see if it makes any significant difference. If not, it will save you some time doing just a single point.
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post #75020 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It is unclear what your graphs represent. You should be doing this:

- Turn Audyssey off.
- Position the sub for smoothest response.
- Measure sub only response with Audyssey off and post results.
- Run a fresh Audyssey calibration with sub in its new spot.
- Measure sub+center with Audyssey on. How does the crossover region look?
- Adjust sub distance to achieve the smoothest response at the crossover.
- Conduct the final measurement and post results.
So actually that is what I did...but I did not provide enough details. I will work on that this evening...thanks!
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post #75021 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Having done this several times myself, I'd be surprised if you see much difference from a single point REW measurement and a multiple point averaged measurement. But it's worth doing if only to see if it makes any significant difference. If not, it will save you some time doing just a single point.
Actually the AVERAGE made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.


Massive dip is gone....the rabbit hole gets deeper.


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post #75022 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
Actually the AVERAGE made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.


Massive dip is gone....the rabbit hole gets deeper.


Not to dash your enthusiasm - BUT - as previously noted - you need to adjust your vertical axis to 5db increments so that you can accurately compare the previous graphs you posted with this most recent measurement

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post #75023 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post
Not to dash your enthusiasm - BUT - as previously noted - you need to adjust your vertical axis to 5db increments so that you can accurately compare the previous graphs you posted with this most recent measurement
Dang...here you go


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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
Actually the AVERAGE made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.


Massive dip is gone....the rabbit hole gets deeper.


Just because an average presents a smoother picture doesn't mean the dip is actually gone.
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Just because an average presents a smoother picture doesn't mean the dip is actually gone.
yeah it is NOT GONE - but it is gone when I do the sub tweak, but it then comes back when I turn on Audyssey....which I will post later with more details to explain.
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
Actually the AVERAGE made a HUGE HUGE HUGE difference.
Interesting. Although it makes me suspicious as, IIRC, all of us who tried averaging a few spots vs a single spot found very little difference.
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post #75027 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
yeah it is NOT GONE - but it is gone when I do the sub tweak, but it then comes back when I turn on Audyssey....which I will post later with more details to explain.

As Jerry pointed out, you should be performing the distance tweak with Audyssey on.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #75028 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Interesting. Although it makes me suspicious as, IIRC, all of us who tried averaging a few spots vs a single spot found very little difference.
Yep I agree...I remember those threads to some extent.


Any idea what I should try to validate or refute my findings related to the averaging ?


I have a calibrated mic by cross spectrum, mic stand, blankets on back of chairs, etc....seemingly I am following proper protocols.
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post #75029 of 75029 Unread Today, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
As Jerry pointed out, you should be performing the distance tweak with Audyssey on.


So yes, this is what I screwed up on !!!!
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