"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2502 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75031 of 75042 Old 03-27-2015, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
One simple thing is to display the graph not as an average but an overlay of all the individual plots that comprise the average. Then you can see what's actually happening at each point in space. It is possible that the dip is a nasty phase interaction that only exists over a small area and disappears a short distance away. This could indicate a simple fix may be a slightly adjustment of seating location.

Also just in case -- make sure you do NOT smooth the measurements prior to the RMS average. You want to average the unsmoothed plots and then AFTER averaging apply any smoothing. Otherwise it is "over smoothed".

IMO is the anomaly only exists at a small point in space and things look normal a short distance left or right I wouldn't sweat it too much.
I know I have work to do, but this is from late last night...as you can see the right seat next to MLP is cool....the MLP and LEFT SEAT are not so great. This is POST sub tweak, but what I did wrong is do all this with Audyssey off...meaning I got best RAW SUB response, then I did sub tweak to integrate to center, then I turned on Audyssey. Anyways...I will start over, but this is a bit larger a hole that I want (would you agree)


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post #75032 of 75042 Old 03-27-2015, 10:26 AM
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Looks like you just need to sit in the left seat

It's going to take some experimentation for sure. Ideally with 4 subs you'd be able to control that kind of spatial variation but clearly there is some phase interaction around the xover frequency.

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post #75033 of 75042 Old 03-27-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Looks like you just need to sit in the left seat

It's going to take some experimentation for sure. Ideally with 4 subs you'd be able to control that kind of spatial variation but clearly there is some phase interaction around the xover frequency.
Tell me about it...no wonder my wife said it sounds so good !!


I will be experimenting for sure!
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post #75034 of 75042 Unread 03-27-2015, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
So is it possible, that my entire rabbit hole is in my head. I moved the mic 3" right of the MLP and wow...what a difference.

...


If the mic position you are calling MLP is right where the center of your head would be, then each of your ears might be 3" to one side or the other, and therefore O.K. At least that's the way it would be with my head, but, hey, I've been called fat-headed in the past.

Last edited by garygarrison; 03-27-2015 at 11:09 PM.
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post #75035 of 75042 Unread Yesterday, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
If the mic position you are calling MLP is right where the center of your head would be, then each of your ears might be 3" to one side or the other, and therefore O.K. At least that's the way it would be with my head, but, hey, I've been called fat-headed in the past.

Gary,

What the heck are you doing up at 2:09AM editing your post?
At least we don't obsess much about this stuff, do we?

You will probably claim a 5 or 6 hour time difference from my EDT. Hawaii maybe.
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post #75036 of 75042 Unread Yesterday, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Gary,

What the heck are you doing up at 2:09AM editing your post?
At least we don't obsess much about this stuff, do we?

You will probably claim a 5 or 6 hour time difference from my EDT. Hawaii maybe.
It was 11:09 PM here on the west coast. I have been at it as late as 2:09 AM, though.
OCD forever!
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post #75037 of 75042 Unread Today, 04:20 AM
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I've just read the X4100 review in HTS here.
I'm surprised at the poor XT32 in eq the mains. It did a terrible job in the bass region.

I'm thinking of upgrading my XT (which did a terrible eq to the bass) to XT32...now I'm worried.
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post #75038 of 75042 Unread Today, 07:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
I've just read the X4100 review in HTS here.
I'm surprised at the poor XT32 in eq the mains. It did a terrible job in the bass region.

I'm thinking of upgrading my XT (which did a terrible eq to the bass) to XT32...now I'm worried.
I'm not certain what part of the review caused you to come to your conclusion:

Audyssey did do a very good job of flattening the majority of the response curves for the main and center. Both channels also tracked closely together after EQ, which is essential for HT. What left me a bit disappointed was the measured bass response and some fluctuation in the highest frequencies. With all the hype surrounding XT32, I expected better results. Now, I'm sure the XT32 fanatics will quickly suggest that I did something wrong. That's entirely possible, but I feel pretty confident that I gave the Denon good data to work with. Could the anomalies be caused by variations in mic placement for Audyssey vs REW? Yes. They line up with known problem areas in my room, so I suspect Audyssey just couldn't quite find the right crossover and EQ combo to knock out the large dips.

Audyssey is not really designed to be tinkered with. This is probably best for beginners, but can be frustrating to advanced users. Crossover and level can be adjusted manually, but XT32's PEQ filters cannot be. There is another option though: a graphic EQ. While a graphic EQ is intuitive and quick to set up, it doesn't offer the flexibility of a multi-band PEQ. Having said that, I was able to achieve a respectable improvement in response using the graphic EQ, as you can see in the graphs above. I was able to smooth response for the main and center channels, and bring the overall shape of their curves closer together, for the purpose of timbre matching. Now I cannot say that one method had a distinctly better sound than the other. In general, the post-XT32 performance was very good.

Two other features offered by Aydussey are Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ. I don't have a need for Dynamic Volume in my setup so I didn't use it. After trying various different content with Dynamic EQ turned on and off, I concluded that I prefer to leave it on for most music, and off for most movies. It seemed to exaggerate the bass too much for my taste during action movies, where I like to hear a bit more impact from sound effects other than bass. For music, however, at moderate to high levels, it works pretty nicely for most of the music I listen to.


MultEQ XT32 did a nice job, but didn't quite live up to the hype for me in a few areas, mostly bass performance. In general I've been very pleased with the Denon's performance.


Most users like to tweak the results after Audyssey, and the reviewer certainly falls in that category.
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post #75039 of 75042 Unread Today, 07:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
I've just read the X4100 review in HTS here.
I'm surprised at the poor XT32 in eq the mains. It did a terrible job in the bass region.

I'm thinking of upgrading my XT (which did a terrible eq to the bass) to XT32...now I'm worried.

I agree with ggsantafe. There is no reason to be concerned about upgrading to Audyssey's most advanced version. One conclusion the reviewer reached with which I don't entirely agree is that XT-32 is for beginners. There are undoubtedly users who can read the AVR instructions for running Audyssey, or even the Set-up Guide and the FAQ, run a single calibration, get great results on the first try, and stop. I am not one of those fortunate few. I think that Audyssey is actually a pretty sophisticated technology which requires some practice to implement at anything like an optimal level. I believe that the fact that we have a lengthy Set-up Guide, an even lengthier FAQ, and a 75,000 post thread bears me out on this.

If we were to take a poll of Audyssey users on the thread, I'll bet that the overwhelming majority of us required a number of calibrations (6, 8, more?) to achieve a really satisfactory calibration. And I'm not talking just about multiple runs on the first day. You try to achieve an optimum set-up in your room and then you run Audyssey. Then you hear something in your sound, or read something which causes you to slightly change your set-up or your calibration technique. And you then get better results. Heck, just deciding what specific microphone pattern works best in your particular circumstances is a trial and error proposition which can require numerous calibration attempts.

I think the reviewer achieved fairly good results for a single calibration attempt in what he said was a difficult room. I'll bet he could do even better with a really sustained effort. I don't really see Audyssey as a "set and forget" technology, for any but a very lucky, or perhaps less demanding, few. For most of us, it is a pretty sophisticated technology that requires researching, set-up tweaks, calibration practice, and sometimes post-calibration tweaks, in order to fully appreciate the benefits. As long as you are willing to put in a little effort, and I'll bet that you are, I think you are likely to be very pleased with the upgrade from XT to XT-32.

Last edited by mthomas47; Today at 07:48 AM.
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post #75040 of 75042 Unread Today, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
I've just read the X4100 review in HTS here.
I'm surprised at the poor XT32 in eq the mains. It did a terrible job in the bass region.

I'm thinking of upgrading my XT (which did a terrible eq to the bass) to XT32...now I'm worried.
I am in the same boat...but not sure if I wait till DST:X or pull the trigger now.
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post #75041 of 75042 Unread Today, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
It is unclear what your graphs represent. You should be doing this:

- Turn Audyssey off.
- Position the sub for smoothest response.
- Measure sub only response with Audyssey off and post results.
- Run a fresh Audyssey calibration with sub in its new spot.
- Measure sub+center with Audyssey on. How does the crossover region look?
- Adjust sub distance to achieve the smoothest response at the crossover.
- Conduct the final measurement and post results.
Ok...after hours of moving around, this is the best I could do with my subs.

This is sub only no audyssey - the yellow is FLAT on my sub and the blue is a slightly different curve on the sub itself....looks like it just increases the dB a bit....so back to flat.



Then I reran audyssey and measured with the center on....moving the distance from 15.5 to 19.5 for best cross.

i don't like what audyssey did to bass between 20 and 60 - but I guess that is my old XT version perhaps ? But in this case Audyssey is not good for bass at all. Yet Audyssey did nice stuff a bit higher...



But now i have this massive dip at 450- ARGHHHHHHHHH



no matter what i do I can't get this right....any ideas on what else I can do....other than throw in the towel and call it a day,
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post #75042 of 75042 Unread Today, 10:37 AM
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Hi all!

The past few days I kind of missed deep bass I was used to. Unfortunately I don't have anything but my ears to proove it so I might had a bad week.
Since I wanted to do some tests for some time now I started playing around with the XT32 and bumped into several questions.

Is it necessary to measure more than one position? I repeatedly compared both configurations (1 and 6 positions) and I didn't notice any difference. Even more, in some cases I thought the bass was even better when measuring a single (MLP) position.
So, if one always uses MLP - does even make sense to measure all 8 positions? I assume it's easier for Audyssey to set up a good response only on one position instead of doing a compromise for achieving the same for multiple seat locations.

Another interesting thing when measuring only 1 position: center channel rossover was set 20 Hz lower. But it was still set to 100 Hz. I managed to trick the Audyssey and slightly moved 500 Hz and 1 kHz bars on my external EQ: the center XO moved from 100 to 60 Hz. Not really sure why. If you lower a frequency Audyssey should correct that. And it did. But why lower the XO?

Then I checked the speaker levels with SPL meter and found out that surround speakers are approx 2 dB louder. I tried equalized test tone settings with THX optimizer. If I turn on DEQ - even more. Some scenes with DEQ are really loud in the back.

Which brings me to DEQ. We know that DEQ simulates the effects as they would be audible at reference level. In my explanation, it enhances height/side effects including bass. Could it be that DEQ is "preparing" the content differently each time? That would explain why I missed deep bass in some well known scenes. And why reloading a config file seemed to help.
I got to try the same scenes without DEQ and see what will happen. Until now I have been struggling whether to use the DEQ or not. But if it does not work the same every time then I see no sense using it.

It may as well be a placebo ... but I kind of doubt it. So far I was always able to trust my ears.

Probably the smallest 5.2.4 in the world!
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