"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2503 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75061 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 07:44 AM
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Wanted to share some results after performing Sub Distance Tweak provided by Keith.

I performed this tweak yesterday. I already had subs placed in best place possible before so didn't have to move subs. But I moved my center to give me better response. I garra say, my center channel response is as good as it gets when it comes to channel with sub integration .

Just the fact that we take separate reading of each channel from sub is a great advice. All along, I have had a dip around 60Hz for Left and Right and I thought I was because of subs. After I took reading of speakers (without sub), it turned out that its my speaker . Left Has a dip around 60 hz and right around 70Hz. Left is no issue because that dip get overlapped with sub but I couldn't get rid of 70 Hz. After running Audyssey, it was still there but its like only 2Hz wide ( I think barely noticeable).

I also realized that I should have crossed my subs at 60 instead 80. At 80, it was 3 db below actual speaker response.

After final calibration, the system sounds amazing. Bass has never sounded so well. Its like so tied now. Almost no booming. I'd say almost because I only watched one movie for 20 minutes. I don't know what did the trick. May the cross over from 80-60.

But what ever it is, I thank Keith very much for sharing his knowledge with us.
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post #75062 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 08:12 AM
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I hope you guys can help me better understand why I am getting the results I am getting when I run the Audyssey calibration.

I have an Integra DHC 80.3 Pre going into an Integra DTA 70.1 power amp. My speakers are Polk Audio LSiM 705s for fronts, 706c for center, 703s for front wide (I prefer this setup for music over surround backs), LSiFx surrounds and a PSW1000 sub. My room is 13’ x 18’ x 7.5’ ceiling.

When I run the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration it sets all of my speakers at 40Hz.

Would someone please help me understand?

Thanks!
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post #75063 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 08:12 AM
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Sorry... didn't mean to post twice but I did not see the first post go through.
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post #75064 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
But what ever it is, I thank Keith very much for sharing his knowledge with us.
Thanks for the hat tip but most of the Sub Distance Tweak Guide is the work of other people, as acknowledge in the guide. What I did was bring it together all into one place. Glad you found it useful!
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post #75065 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by halicea View Post
I hope you guys can help me better understand why I am getting the results I am getting when I run the Audyssey calibration.

I have an Integra DHC 80.3 Pre going into an Integra DTA 70.1 power amp. My speakers are Polk Audio LSiM 705s for fronts, 706c for center, 703s for front wide (I prefer this setup for music over surround backs), LSiFx surrounds and a PSW1000 sub. My room is 13’ x 18’ x 7.5’ ceiling.

When I run the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 calibration it sets all of my speakers at 40Hz.

Would someone please help me understand?

Thanks!
That is the response that Audyssey sees from your speakers, taking into account their interaction with the room. I'd suggest raising them somewhat to take the strain off them and put it on to the sub which is likely more able to handle low bass. Try 80Hz to start with and then 60Hz and see which you prefer, if any.

Also see these FAQ answers for more info:

c)4. Is it OK to change the Crossovers from Audyssey's recommendation?


c)7. Audyssey is setting my crossovers way differently to what I expected. Why?
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post #75066 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
....But now i have this massive dip at 450... any ideas on what else I can do....other than throw in the towel and call it a day,
My first thoughts are
- your speakers are mounted on the wall, and you're seeing the Allison effect. A dip at 450Hz would be expected from a speaker 7.5" in depth, mounted on a wall. There are floor bounce geometries that could do something similar.
- your using a 3-way with a 450Hz crossover from woofer to midrange, and the XO is out of phase.
- your measurement mic is 7.5" from a wall.

Room modes are one of the last things I'd consider, given how unlikely it is to have a 7th harmonic dip, without even larger dips for the lower harmonics. Room modes don't go away, they get so close, we stop hearing the trees for the forest.

Regardless, I agree this one's not Audyssey...

Tthe bass issue could be position dependence; how close did you place the measurement mic to the Audyssey mic's location?

Have fun,
Frank
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post #75067 of 75075 Old 03-30-2015, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbov View Post
My first thoughts are
- your speakers are mounted on the wall, and you're seeing the Allison effect. A dip at 450Hz would be expected from a speaker 7.5" in depth, mounted on a wall. There are floor bounce geometries that could do something similar.
- your using a 3-way with a 450Hz crossover from woofer to midrange, and the XO is out of phase.
- your measurement mic is 7.5" from a wall.

Room modes are one of the last things I'd consider, given how unlikely it is to have a 7th harmonic dip, without even larger dips for the lower harmonics. Room modes don't go away, they get so close, we stop hearing the trees for the forest.

Regardless, I agree this one's not Audyssey...

Tthe bass issue could be position dependence; how close did you place the measurement mic to the Audyssey mic's location?

Have fun,
Frank

I feel like a detective and guys / gals thanks for all the help, however the mystery continues :-)


Speakers are freestanding - the center (speaker I have an issue with) is mounted on a stand angled up toward MLP - it sits roughly 2 ft off the ground. the ground is heavily padded and carpeted concrete though. Could it be a floor bounce, but I guess I could line the floor with something to eliminate that I guess.


Not using a 3 way


Measurement is roughly 8 ft off back wall


The measuring Mic is within an inch or less of where the Audyssey mic was in the 1st MLP position.

Should I take this out of the Audyssey thread at this point...or assume it ok to still have some fun with it.


Below is a few more pics from my theater site that might help out....

http://cavadastheater.webs.com/see-the-theater
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post #75068 of 75075 Old Yesterday, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
I feel like a detective and guys / gals thanks for all the help, however the mystery continues :-)


Speakers are freestanding - the center (speaker I have an issue with) is mounted on a stand angled up toward MLP - it sits roughly 2 ft off the ground. the ground is heavily padded and carpeted concrete though. Could it be a floor bounce, but I guess I could line the floor with something to eliminate that I guess.


Not using a 3 way


Measurement is roughly 8 ft off back wall


The measuring Mic is within an inch or less of where the Audyssey mic was in the 1st MLP position.

Should I take this out of the Audyssey thread at this point...or assume it ok to still have some fun with it.


Below is a few more pics from my theater site that might help out....

http://cavadastheater.webs.com/see-the-theater

You are getting insightful advice, and I can't contribute anything to that. But I am curious about something. Aside from the fun of problem solving why you are getting the strange dip at 450hz, are you also motivated by a concern with your actual sound quality? I'm not being sarcastic or anything here, just curious. I can understand enjoying the challenge of solving, or at least explaining, a perplexing problem, but can you actually hear something you don't like happening in your lower mid-range frequency? I know that not every measurable problem necessarily presents as an audible one, and I am just wondering if that is the case here. Thanks!
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post #75069 of 75075 Old Yesterday, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
Below is a few more pics from my theater site that might help out....

http://cavadastheater.webs.com/see-the-theater

After reviewing your photos, have you tried pulling the center channel out further so the front of it is past the box it is resting on? I can see it's angled up but there's still a surface directly underneath it. Some people complain of issues with dialog when the center channel is recessed in a cabinet or sitting further back on a stand. Just a thought...also, I didn't mean to imply the 450Hz dip was a result of a room mode but I could see how my question sent you down that path. It was more of a general question regarding your speaker and sub placement. If you search "mode" and posts by member "sdurani" in the REW thread then you'll find a wealth of information on how to interpret the standing waves plot.
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post #75070 of 75075 Old Yesterday, 01:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post
I feel like a detective and guys / gals thanks for all the help, however the mystery continues :-)
A couple of posts before I put you a question, maybe it got into the shade, so here it is again:

"Ever thought of making your HT environment into a sealed room (with doors, of course)?"

With the above suggestion you would have an ideally symmetric layout many of us would envy, but the most important is that you could have much more control of what is going on in that room acoustically, not to mention the ease of use of Audyssey, room mode calculators, REW and all that jazz.

Just a thought!
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post #75071 of 75075 Old Yesterday, 10:01 PM
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Differences in Audyssey???

I am looking to upgrade from 1913 to either AVR-X2100W for 399.99 or AVR-X3000 for $598 both at Amazon. I think the 2100 may be a better deal for me...but what I don't know are the differences in Audyssey. The 2100 comes with silver and the 3000 DSX. What is the difference. I am going to spend more time googling but have not found any answers yet.

Thanks!
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post #75072 of 75075 Old Today, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by soundwhat View Post
I am looking to upgrade from 1913 to either AVR-X2100W for 399.99 or AVR-X3000 for $598 both at Amazon. I think the 2100 may be a better deal for me...but what I don't know are the differences in Audyssey. The 2100 comes with silver and the 3000 DSX. What is the difference. I am going to spend more time googling but have not found any answers yet.

Thanks!
I've attached a couple of Denon/Marantz marketing graphics which show the differences between their proprietary branding of Audyssey features.

Audyssey DSX is a surround-sound upmixer. It'll expand a 5.1 channel soundtrack so it will make use of Front Wide and/or Front Height speakers. Front Wides sit between the main front speakers and the side Surround speakers. Front Height usually are placed at the top of the front wall, above the front main speakers. Dolby and DTS also provide upmixers, Dolby Prologic IIz and DTS Neo:X, which have similar features.
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Marantz SR7009+MM9000/Atmos 7.1.4 (FH+TM:DefTech PM1000)/LCR+TM amped
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post #75073 of 75075 Unread Today, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
A couple of posts before I put you a question, maybe it got into the shade, so here it is again:

"Ever thought of making your HT environment into a sealed room (with doors, of course)?"

With the above suggestion you would have an ideally symmetric layout many of us would envy, but the most important is that you could have much more control of what is going on in that room acoustically, not to mention the ease of use of Audyssey, room mode calculators, REW and all that jazz.

Just a thought!
Yeah I hear you....but for now that is not an option if I want to keep the family happy.
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post #75074 of 75075 Unread Today, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are getting insightful advice, and I can't contribute anything to that. But I am curious about something. Aside from the fun of problem solving why you are getting the strange dip at 450hz, are you also motivated by a concern with your actual sound quality? I'm not being sarcastic or anything here, just curious. I can understand enjoying the challenge of solving, or at least explaining, a perplexing problem, but can you actually hear something you don't like happening in your lower mid-range frequency? I know that not every measurable problem necessarily presents as an audible one, and I am just wondering if that is the case here. Thanks!
I am fighting a slight (way better with the ceiling cloud up) issue with center channel being "muffled". Although I am not totally sure the 450 hz dip is related, but I figured it might be....so I was just trying to eliminate any issues trying to perfect my Audyssey calibration.
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post #75075 of 75075 Unread Today, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
After reviewing your photos, have you tried pulling the center channel out further so the front of it is past the box it is resting on? I can see it's angled up but there's still a surface directly underneath it. Some people complain of issues with dialog when the center channel is recessed in a cabinet or sitting further back on a stand. Just a thought...also, I didn't mean to imply the 450Hz dip was a result of a room mode but I could see how my question sent you down that path. It was more of a general question regarding your speaker and sub placement. If you search "mode" and posts by member "sdurani" in the REW thread then you'll find a wealth of information on how to interpret the standing waves plot.
So the funny thing is, I think the center channel slipped a bit and I did not even notice. I will pull it out when I get back this weekend (on the road for work) and see if that does the trick...of course I will re-run audyssey once I get pulled up as well.

I will also dig into the standing wave issues, thanks for commenting that it might not be that.....thanks again!
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