"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2508 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75211 of 75217 Old 04-14-2015, 03:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Gary,
... I went back to the FAQ to look up a quote from Roger Dressler which I remembered. He said: "In addition, I have found that 5.1 music recordings are not well disciplined in their use of LFE, leading to muddiness that is even more annoying. Again, the 80 Hz LFE filter setting really helps the bass knit together more cohesively."
Mike
Part of it might be them, and part of it may be us. If we have direct radiator subwoofers (as I do, unfortunately), that require wide cone excursion, and if the recordists are actually pumping in real LFE (up to 120 Hz), rather than our home systems merely using bass management, and they are loading up the LFE channel with a lot of bass at, say, 30-40 Hz, and at the same time loading it up at 100-120 Hz, that may cause FM distortion due to the 100/120 riding back and forth on a cone pumping away to produce 30/40 Hz. We could minimize the audibility of this kind of distortion by using 80 Hz (or lower), but if we had horn loaded subwoofers, their cones would (ideally) not need to move any farther at 30 Hz than at 120 Hz, presenting a less muddy, less discordant sound, so we could have our cake and eat it too. On the other hand, maybe the recordists/performers regard chaotic, muddy, disturbing sound as a tool in their artistic tool box.

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post #75212 of 75217 Old 04-14-2015, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Part of it might be them, and part of it may be us. If we have direct radiator subwoofers (as I do, unfortunately), that require wide cone excursion, and if the recordists are actually pumping in real LFE (up to 120 Hz), rather than our home systems merely using bass management, and they are loading up the LFE channel with a lot of bass at, say, 30-40 Hz, and at the same time loading it up at 100-120 Hz, that may cause FM distortion due to the 100/120 riding back and forth on a cone pumping away to produce 30/40 Hz. We could minimize the audibility of this kind of distortion by using 80 Hz (or lower), but if we had horn loaded subwoofers, their cones would (ideally) not need to move any farther at 30 Hz than at 120 Hz, presenting a less muddy, less discordant sound, so we could have our cake and eat it too. On the other hand, maybe the recordists/performers regard chaotic, muddy, disturbing sound as a tool in their artistic tool box.
Although I appreciate the first part of your answer, I believe that the last sentence comes closer to the mark for what I was describing. I rarely hear what I would describe as muddy or unnatural sounding bass from acoustic instruments. Where I do hear it sometimes is with synthesized bass, and I believe, at that point, mixers may be pumping in practically anything in an effort to generate very low bass sounds. I believe I recall FilmMixer (I hope I'm not misattributing this) saying that he sometimes heard what he thought was an inadvertent open mike on some music recordings. I would guess accidentally having an open mike on the LFE channel could create some weird effects. But as long as it generates more bass, it's all good. Right?
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post #75213 of 75217 Old Yesterday, 08:48 PM
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Hello all, I hope I am posting this in the correct place. My dilemma, I am attempting to run 2 Infinity IL-60's on a denon 2310ci receiver. I just completed R.A.B.O.S with not much difference after testing 3 times and adjusting back of speakers twice. I then tried to run the audyssey setup and it says ambient noise too loud or level too low or no mic or speaker not present. I assure you it isn't the ambient noise and the speaker is making the calibration noise. I have the speakers hooked up via Y connector off of the receiver pre-out to sub in on both speakers and speaker wire from front A on receiver to speaker terminals on back of speaker. Can someone tell me what postion switches need to be in? Switches are (Sub input, speaker or line) (Low pass filter, on or off) (Bass optimization system, on or off ) I am stumped and a little ignorant to all the bells and whistles of this receiver. My il-40's tunned just fine with audyssey.
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post #75214 of 75217 Old Today, 12:23 PM
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RABOS is a method for adjusing the sub's PEQ based on CD test tones. It's a good idea to optimize sub performance before Audyssey, and I don't see how a little PEQ on the sub would hurt, but let's start with it off.

I assume you're using the subwoofer out port on your Denon, and have the Denon set for "small" speakers, subwoofer included, and a roughly 80Hz crossover.

If so, set the sub amp
- sub input: LINE (you're running off the Denon's LFE/sub port)
- low pass filter: OFF (Denon's doing all the filtering)
- bass optimization system: OFF (this turns off the PEQ for now)
- RCA cable from the Denon's LFE/subwoofer port (a low voltage or "line" output), to sub's line input (through a splitter)
- speaker wire from Denon's L/R power terminals (speaker voltage) to speaker binding posts.

You should hear something recognizable as full range sound. Audyssey should work fine.

The only thing I can't check is that you really have the amp connected correctly. Last time I played with my subs, they went dead... plugged into the wrong port on the AVR. Simple mistakes are easy to do, so always check the simple stuff!

HAve fun,
Frank

PS did you use a sub with the IL40's? These should work the same as they did with the sub.
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post #75215 of 75217 Old Today, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by fbov View Post
RABOS is a method for adjusing the sub's PEQ based on CD test tones. It's a good idea to optimize sub performance before Audyssey, and I don't see how a little PEQ on the sub would hurt, but let's start with it off.

I assume you're using the subwoofer out port on your Denon, and have the Denon set for "small" speakers, subwoofer included, and a roughly 80Hz crossover.

If so, set the sub amp
- sub input: LINE (you're running off the Denon's LFE/sub port)
- low pass filter: OFF (Denon's doing all the filtering)
- bass optimization system: OFF (this turns off the PEQ for now)
- RCA cable from the Denon's LFE/subwoofer port (a low voltage or "line" output), to sub's line input (through a splitter)
- speaker wire from Denon's L/R power terminals (speaker voltage) to speaker binding posts.

You should hear something recognizable as full range sound. Audyssey should work fine.

The only thing I can't check is that you really have the amp connected correctly. Last time I played with my subs, they went dead... plugged into the wrong port on the AVR. Simple mistakes are easy to do, so always check the simple stuff!

HAve fun,
Frank

PS did you use a sub with the IL40's? These should work the same as they did with the sub.


Yes I used a sub when I ran the il40's and everything worked wonderfully. I seem to have everything hooked up correctly and all speakers play including subs. When I try to run audyssey the funny noise it makes sounds muffled and low, thus it wont let me get past the left speaker. At first it said ambient noise too high or speaker level too low, I then messed with it a little and now it says something like no mic or no speaker. I can hold the microphone right infront of the left speaker it will go to the center channel etc. But when I place the mic in the listening chair roughly 12 feet away audyessy cant tune. I have done factory reset on denon hoping that might fix the problem but no dice. Is there a gain somewhere in the receiver im not seeing????? Ive tried the audyssey after tunning with rabos and Ive tried it with all 3 knobs turned to full clockwise position, still nothing. BTW thanks for the help
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post #75216 of 75217 Old Today, 01:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 66shovelhd View Post
Yes I used a sub when I ran the il40's and everything worked wonderfully. I seem to have everything hooked up correctly and all speakers play including subs. When I try to run audyssey the funny noise it makes sounds muffled and low, thus it wont let me get past the left speaker. At first it said ambient noise too high or speaker level too low, I then messed with it a little and now it says something like no mic or no speaker. I can hold the microphone right infront of the left speaker it will go to the center channel etc. But when I place the mic in the listening chair roughly 12 feet away audyessy cant tune. I have done factory reset on denon hoping that might fix the problem but no dice. Is there a gain somewhere in the receiver im not seeing????? Ive tried the audyssey after tunning with rabos and Ive tried it with all 3 knobs turned to full clockwise position, still nothing. BTW thanks for the help
I wanted to suggest a factory reset, but I see you've already done that. Seems probably you have a lemon AVR or a lemon mic.

Last edited by mogorf; Today at 01:15 PM.
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