"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2509 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #75241 of 75254 Old Today, 03:00 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,778
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
Which is EXACTLY what Audyssey Room EQ is engineered to do - optimize and area so more than one listener benefits. You have to jump through some hoops and try to trick Audyssey to optimize a MLP at the expense of others. Fine if you have a 1 person HT or don't mind less than the best experience for others in the room.
However, and I'm sure most experienced posters in this thread would agree, Audyssey unfortunately doesn't do a very good job at optimizing multiple seats.

If you want to have "great" audio in at least one seat and not just mediocre audio in a few seats, optimize the MLP and let the rest fall where they may. IMO, there is no way you will ever get "the best" experience for all seats in a room...it's just not possible.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #75242 of 75254 Old Today, 03:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
However, and I'm sure most experienced posters in this thread would agree, Audyssey unfortunately doesn't do a very good job at optimizing multiple seats.

If you want to have "great" audio in at least one seat and not just mediocre audio in a few seats, optimize the MLP and let the rest fall where they may. IMO, there is no way you will ever get "the best" experience for all seats in a room...it's just not possible.
Care to expand on this a bit more Alan? The creators of Audyssey MultEQ have spent 6 million dollars and ten years on this solution. And then they licensed it to world known AVR/AVP makers.

How much money and time did you spend on negating their findings?

No pun intended, just curious on how you got to your above conclusion! Really.
mogorf is online now  
post #75243 of 75254 Old Today, 03:46 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,778
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Care to expand on this a bit more Alan? The creators of Audyssey MultEQ have spent 6 million dollars and ten years on this solution. And then they licensed it to world known AVR/AVP makers.

How much money and time did you spend on negating their findings?

No pun intended, just curious on how you got to your above conclusion! Really.

IME, if you try to EQ every seat, not a single one will have the "best" sound possible from your system. Just my own experience in my own room (although I've seen countless others on AVS say their experience is the same).

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #75244 of 75254 Old Today, 03:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
NorthSky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Canada - West Island: Vancouver, South Direction: Go East
Posts: 10,425
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4320 Post(s)
Liked: 1674
He's talking about one sweet spot, and the rest is averaging. ...This is acoustics, this is normal, this is science.
It's like going to a Classical Opera concert hall; there are many good seats, some better than others depending on which side of what ear you are sitting from.
NorthSky is offline  
post #75245 of 75254 Old Today, 03:48 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Gary J's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: 4000' or sea level
Posts: 7,814
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 168 Post(s)
Liked: 115
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
However, and I'm sure most experienced posters in this thread would agree, Audyssey unfortunately doesn't do a very good job at optimizing multiple seats.

If you want to have "great" audio in at least one seat and not just mediocre audio in a few seats, optimize the MLP and let the rest fall where they may. IMO, there is no way you will ever get "the best" experience for all seats in a room...it's just not possible.
No I see the words "great" and "mediocre" as gross exaggeration. But feel free to jerry rig Audyssey any way you want to satisfy your preference at the expense of Audyssey's stated purpose - to optimize a listening area, which certainly is "possible" since it is better than it was before. Rationalize your MLP better than all others all you want, my SO and I get equal billing.
Gary J is offline  
post #75246 of 75254 Old Today, 03:54 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,374
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked: 441
[QUOTE=.[/QUOTE]

Our seating situation is about as wide as a 3 cushion couch. I would sit far right, and she would sit far left, and the middle cushion is the MLP. I then take 3 measurements in my area, 3 more in hers, and then one more forward of the MLP. It pretty much gets our area for XT32 to correct for. I'm not sure why I would move the MLP one way or the other, further away from the other listener...

Especially when I have the fronts equidistant from the MLP and toed in. It is the sweet spot, and we sit one cushion to each side of it.

I thought that is why it had 8 measurements and 512 filters, after the MLP distance and timing, it can correct for the other parts of the listening area.

65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Denon 4520CI / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #75247 of 75254 Old Today, 03:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
IME, if you try to EQ every seat, not a single one will have the "best" sound possible from your system. Just my own experience in my own room (although I've seen countless others on AVS say their experience is the same).
Not the way I expected a scientific explanation. Heck with in Alan, but have you done a run with MultEQ and tried to sit at each seat to compare the SQ? What was the result?
mogorf is online now  
post #75248 of 75254 Old Today, 04:06 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,778
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
No I see the words "great" and "mediocre" as gross exaggeration. But feel free to jerry rig Audyssey any way you want to satisfy your preference at the expense of Audyssey's stated purpose - to optimize a listening area, which certainly is "possible" since it is better than it was before. Rationalize your MLP better than all others all you want, my SO and I get equal billing.
"Better than before" hardly equates to "optimized" in my book.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #75249 of 75254 Old Today, 04:08 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,778
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Not the way I expected a scientific explanation. Heck with in Alan, but have you done a run with MultEQ and tried to sit at each seat to compare the SQ? What was the result?
I never said it was "scientific" Feri....I however did say IMO and IME.


I have a very difficult room, so maybe in a room that is much more "acoustically friendly" it is possible to get the exact same response at two or more separate seats....but, like I said, IME in my room it just ain't happenin'.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #75250 of 75254 Old Today, 04:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 4,778
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1889 Post(s)
Liked: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Are you saying that you take the first mic position measurement between the 2 chairs, over the table?

I can't recommend this as it makes the space between both chairs the "sweet spot"...although no one actually sits there. You are actually compromising both seats by trying to optimize both. You need to pick one chair and designate that the MLP and optimize for the MLP. Any other approach is a compromise that isn't optimizing either seat.
Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Our seating situation is about as wide as a 3 cushion couch. I would sit far right, and she would sit far left, and the middle cushion is the MLP. I then take 3 measurements in my area, 3 more in hers, and then one more forward of the MLP. It pretty much gets our area for XT32 to correct for. I'm not sure why I would move the MLP one way or the other, further away from the other listener...

Especially when I have the fronts equidistant from the MLP and toed in. It is the sweet spot, and we sit one cushion to each side of it.

I thought that is why it had 8 measurements and 512 filters, after the MLP distance and timing, it can correct for the other parts of the listening area.

The point I was trying to make in my first post was that you should choose an MLP for the first Audyssey mic position, otherwise the distance and timing won't be set correctly for either seat, that is all.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
Alan P is online now  
post #75251 of 75254 Old Today, 04:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
gadgtfreek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 3,374
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 378 Post(s)
Liked: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
The point I was trying to make in my first post was that you should choose an MLP for the first Audyssey mic position, otherwise the distance and timing won't be set correctly for either seat, that is all.
Understood. I just think with two primary listeners so close together, it's a compromise to be made.

65" VT50 / Oppo 103D
Denon 4520CI / Outlaw Model 7500
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
gadgtfreek is online now  
post #75252 of 75254 Old Today, 04:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
mogorf's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Posts: 4,751
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 430 Post(s)
Liked: 166
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I never said it was "scientific" Feri....I however did say IMO and IME.


I have a very difficult room, so maybe in a room that is much more "acoustically friendly" it is possible to get the exact same response at two or more separate seats....but, like I said, IME in my room it just ain't happenin'.
Did you sit at all seats doing a careful listening comparison of SQ? Dialog intelligibility,...bass distribution, ...sound staging?

If not,...worth a try! Indeed!
mogorf is online now  
post #75253 of 75254 Old Today, 04:31 PM
Senior Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 438
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
Threads with huge post counts such as this one experience posting errors while the smaller ones tend not to.

Anyway, I have a simple question. Has anyone evaluated a new set of speakers and been sort of "meh" about them, then had Audyssey completely change how you feel about them? I have a pair of well regarded speakers that I wasn't thrilled with at first, but XT32 brought them to life big time. The lows, mids, highs, all changed drastically for the better, enough to change my mind about returning them.

I can't answer your question directly, as my speakers sound pretty good even without Audyssey, although much better with, but I think it's an interesting question. It is a commonly accepted "truth" on this thread that you don't actually hear your speakers--you hear the combination of speakers and room. As might be assumed on an Audyssey thread, we also tend to accept that room correction will generally improve the speaker/room interaction. Turning your question around, I wonder how many people try Audyssey, don't implement it very well, and then turn it off? Sort of like taking the speakers back in your question.

The reason I am bringing this up is because I read a discussion in the Atmos thread from a few weeks ago where Keith got flamed for saying that, all things being equal, an Audyssey-equipped receiver (D/M) would be better than a current Onkyo. A couple of posters were pretty unimpressed with Audyssey, and reading their posts I got the impression that they hadn't invested the time and effort to really perfect their calibrations. Keith was wise enough to let it drop, and I wouldn't have butted in even if I hadn't been reading several weeks behind the discussion. But it did make me wonder how many people don't actually come to this thread for help, but just bail on Audyssey after a half-hearted effort. I started linking the FAQ in my signature because of all the Audyssey-related questions I was seeing on a Marantz owners thread.

I accept the fact that there are some rooms so good that Audyssey can't do much to help, although it shouldn't hurt either. And I accept the fact that there may be some rooms so bad that Audyssey can't do much to help. And in some cases, perhaps Audyssey could even exacerbate a problem in a really bad room. But in the vast majority of cases, a combination of set-up and calibration technique is probably responsible for the negative results I sometimes see reported. For many of us, Audyssey isn't just dead simple, but you would think that most audio enthusiasts on the AVS forum would be willing to invest the time and effort it takes to improve their speaker/room interaction. I wonder how many of them don't even realize how much of their rooms they are actually hearing? To be fair, at least one of the posters on the Atmos thread had a well treated room, so he certainly realized the importance of the room. Oh well, sorry for the mini-rant, but your question took me back to some things I would have liked to say on that other thread.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #75254 of 75254 Old Today, 05:37 PM
Senior Member
 
garygarrison's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 314
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 115 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
However, and I'm sure most experienced posters in this thread would agree, Audyssey unfortunately doesn't do a very good job at optimizing multiple seats.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
... have you done a run with MultEQ and tried to sit at each seat to compare the SQ? What was the result?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Did you sit at all seats doing a careful listening comparison of SQ? Dialog intelligibility,...bass distribution, ...sound staging?

If not,...worth a try! Indeed!
We have a 5 seat couch. After running Audyssey many times, always with the MLP dead center, the biggest, obvious difference in the seating is that the imaging is clearly the best in the center. The dialog stays in the center from all seats, thanks to the center channel. The orchestra shifts some as one moves to the sides. Other than imaging, the overall sound quality is about the same in the center three seats, and nearly as good in the two farthest out seats.

From any seat, the SQ is clearly better with Audyssey than without it.
gadgtfreek likes this.
garygarrison is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
Gear in this thread - Kht1005 by PriceGrabber.com



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off