"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2513 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75361 of 75374 Old Today, 03:04 PM
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Question for those of you with a minidsp:

Do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after you run Audyssey?
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post #75362 of 75374 Old Today, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Question for those of you with a minidsp:

Do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after you run Audyssey?
Better to ask in the minidsp threads. Real Audyssey users don't use mixed room correction systems coz there can be phase vs. frequency issues affecting SQ. But ,...pssst,...don't tell 'em!
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post #75363 of 75374 Old Today, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Better to ask in the minidsp threads. Real Audyssey users don't use mixed room correction systems coz there can be phase vs. frequency issues affecting SQ. But ,...pssst,...don't tell 'em!
I asked in minidsp thread but was told to ask here, lol.

I'm fairly certain many minidsp users also use Audyssey? If nothing else you can use minidsp to add a house curve or more mid-bass.

I'll rephrase my question though - are there any fake Audyssey users like me who use a minidsp also? If so, do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after Audyssey?
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post #75364 of 75374 Old Today, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Question for those of you with a minidsp:

Do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after you run Audyssey?
Use MiniDSP first, and then run Audyssey. Audyssey results are generally better if there is less to correct. For this reason, the advice is to add room treatments, find the best location for subs, etc. before running Audyssey.

I have a MiniDSP 2x4 and room correction. This is the order that I do things, with good results.
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post #75365 of 75374 Old Today, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
I asked in minidsp thread but was told to ask here, lol.
LOL.

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I'm fairly certain many minidsp users also use Audyssey?
Me, too!


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If nothing else you can use minidsp to add a house curve or more mid-bass.
And then you add phase distortion to your system!!

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I'll rephrase my question though - are there any fake Audyssey users like me who use a minidsp also? If so, do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after Audyssey?
There are many fake Audyssey users who don't u'stand phase distortion. They just look at frequency curves and get happy with what they get. Flat or a "house curve", whatever pleases them.

They are nice people, but lack the technical background. Still they are happy. Let it be!
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post #75366 of 75374 Old Today, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
LOL.

And then you add phase distortion to your system ...Audyssey users who don't u'stand phase distortion. They'd just look at frequency curves and get happy with what they get.
I'm pretty novice but I think you are saying eq'ing after Audyssey can make the graphs look better, but can potentially make things sound worse?

I have kind of felt lie things sound off after messing with eq after Audyssey. I'm glad you pointed this out, I think I'll try to stick to taming peaks pre Audyssey as the other gentleman suggested.

Although no matter where I put the subs I get a five DB or so dip in a few spots. I had been fixing them with eq. I guess I'll resist the urge. Now I have something else to be paranoid about.
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post #75367 of 75374 Old Today, 05:42 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
XLR Attenuator + Audyssey question:

When trying to buy a XLR attenuator, that's say 10dB, will it roughly bring the level setting down in audyssey 10dB (say if speaker was -10, once attenuator is added it will be close to 0), or is it not that exact?
I was told by my dealer & tech that attenuators provide approximately the labeled amount of attenuation. Isn't it true that whatever the amount of real attenuation, Audyssey will measure that, and set the trim appropriately, providing that there is enough attenuation to produce a trim setting less extreme than -12?
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post #75368 of 75374 Old Today, 06:04 PM
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Found some useful info from Chris K, with an easy solution. Of course I will try both XLRs and XLRs+attenuators next week with Audyssey, but if you have one or more speakers that is at -12 you just adjust the others to it and reduced master volume that you use.

If speaker A is 79db's at -12, go in and adjust others to 79db's, and then just remember you reference volume is now not 0.0, but -4.0.
I'm still confused. If Audyssey has set Speaker A to -12, is it possible that Audyssey would have "liked" to set it at -13 or -14 or -15, etc, but stopped at -12 because -12 is the limit of the range ... right or wrong?

I would be more comfortable if no speaker's trim was at -12. At more moderate settings (e.g., -10, -5) I would be more confident that Audyssey set the trim correctly.

Did Chris really use -12 as an example? If he was using some other Audyssey assigned trim setting -- less extreme than -12 -- it would make more sense to me. But, as I said, I'm still confused.
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post #75369 of 75374 Old Today, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I'm still confused. If Audyssey has set Speaker A to -12, is it possible that Audyssey would have "liked" to set it at -13 or -14 or -15, etc, but stopped at -12 because -12 is the limit of the range ... right or wrong?

I would be more comfortable if no speaker's trim was at -12. At more moderate settings (e.g., -10, -5) I would be more confident that Audyssey set the trim correctly.

Did Chris really use -12 as an example? If he was using some other Audyssey assigned trim setting -- less extreme than -12 -- it would make more sense to me. But, as I said, I'm still confused.
If you have speakers going -12, you can attenuate with an RCA or XLR connector or check their SPL and level match. In my case, my center is currently -12, but luckily it tests only about 1/2 to 1 db higher than fronts (close to 76 when they are 75). So you run Audyssey and you fronts are -10, and the center is -12. After you finish, you go into the level section, turn the volume up to reference (0.0), and test the center. say the center is 80 (basically it needed an adjustment of -17 but -12 is max), and then you go to the fronts and you want to level match them with the center.

You'd bump the fronts up from the 75db that Audyssey set, to 80, which would most likely be you adjusting them from -10 to -5. At that point all speakers are level at 80db, and it now means your reference volume setting is not 0.0 anymore, its probably -5.0 because you are 5db's hot now.

I guess if you wanted to feel more comfortable and not have the center at -12, you could bump it to -10, which would then be 82 for the sake of this conversation, and you would have to give the other speakes a 7db boost in audyssey. Chris K did not seem concerned at all about one being -12, you just have to use an SPL meter to determine what it is actually putting out, and match the other speakers to it.

It's a simple solution that I never thought of until reading his answers to people. They key is not that all the speakers have to be 75db, it's that if you deviate from that you have to realize that 0.0 is not a reference volume setting anymore and adjust accordingly. And if one speakers is high, you want them all to match the level of the highest speaker because you can always adjust up from a negative, but once it is at -12, nothing more you can do for that speaker. Unless you opt for the 10db, etc... attenuators.
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post #75370 of 75374 Old Today, 08:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
I'm still confused. If Audyssey has set Speaker A to -12, is it possible that Audyssey would have "liked" to set it at -13 or -14 or -15, etc, but stopped at -12 because -12 is the limit of the range ... right or wrong?

I would be more comfortable if no speaker's trim was at -12. At more moderate settings (e.g., -10, -5) I would be more confident that Audyssey set the trim correctly.

Did Chris really use -12 as an example? If he was using some other Audyssey assigned trim setting -- less extreme than -12 -- it would make more sense to me. But, as I said, I'm still confused.
Yes... If Audyssey wanted to set the speaker at -14 (arbitrary), and it has a limit of 12db, it would set it to -12. So when ever you have a -12 with Audyssey you need to back it down prior to Audyssey so Audyssey can properly adjust it within the 12db range.

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post #75371 of 75374 Old Today, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyrindor View Post
....
.1 tracks sound fine, but music sounds lacking. The extremely deep bass is gone, even if I crank subs up to +10. It seems to cut it completely off. There's also some mid range bass that I can't seem to get back without making it sound boomy or overly bassy in other areas.
...
.
I suffered the same for 2+ years . I could not enjoy music with Audessy On.

I almost gave up on it, until I tried something that could be considered a heresy among Audessy fans - I manually adjusted the distances of the subs until I thought I perceived improvements. The sound of the precise moment when kickdrums are struck reappeared in the music. I imagine that this might be what you have described as "some mid range bass" that was missing. Extremely deep bass from the likes church organ type vibes also came to life.
I verified with LF tone bursts that the results were indeed better with the adjusted sub distances. I can now enjoy music with Audessy On regardless of the sub trims I try to make. I tried the sub trims up and down by up to +-5db but I no longer perceive bloat nor thinness so now I leave them at the level that Audessy set them.

I wish I do not get flamed for sharing my "heretical" but successful experiment.

If the results of this experiment in my set up could be replicated elsewhere then perhaps it points to a minor arithmetic bug in Audessy's algorithms.

Last edited by doognam; Today at 08:31 PM. Reason: add last sentence
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post #75372 of 75374 Unread Today, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by doognam View Post
I suffered the same for 2+ years . I could not enjoy music with Audessy On.

I almost gave up on it, until I tried something that could be considered a heresy among Audessy fans - I manually adjusted the distances of the subs until I thought I perceived improvements. The sound of the precise moment when kickdrums are struck reappeared in the music. I imagine that this might be what you have described as "some mid range bass" that was missing. Extremely deep bass from the likes church organ type vibes also came to life.
I verified with LF tone bursts that the results were indeed better with the adjusted sub distances. I can now enjoy music with Audessy On regardless of the sub trims I try to make. I tried the sub trims up and down by up to +-5db but I no longer perceive bloat nor thinness so now I leave them at the level that Audessy set them.

I wish I do not get flamed for sharing my "heretical" but successful experiment.

If the results of this experiment in my set up could be replicated elsewhere then perhaps it points to a minor arithmetic bug in Audessy's algorithms.
Doognam, you are not going to get flamed by suggesting that adjusting the sub distances may improve bass response. However, you will get flamed by not doing your homework and realizing that there is a very well-written "Sub Distance Tweak" procedure that is part of the extensive Audyssey documentation in this thread. You will find a link to the procedure in KBarnes701's signature. Adjusting sub distances is an accepted procedure that yields positive results for many Audyssey users.

So, perhaps it would be worth your while if you are going to continue using Audyssey to read up on the tips and documentation that I am sure will result in even further improvements in your system. Try the Audyssey FAQ for starters.
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post #75373 of 75374 Unread Today, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Doognam, you are not going to get flamed by suggesting that adjusting the sub distances may improve bass response. However, you will get flamed by not doing your homework and realizing that there is a very well-written "Sub Distance Tweak" procedure that is part of the extensive Audyssey documentation in this thread. You will find a link to the procedure in KBarnes701's signature. Adjusting sub distances is an accepted procedure that yields positive results for many Audyssey users.

So, perhaps it would be worth your while if you are going to continue using Audyssey to read up on the tips and documentation that I am sure will result in even further improvements in your system. Try the Audyssey FAQ for starters.

Not doing homework - suggest reading up on tips and documentation... sure will result in further improvements of my system.
Oh dear! What a mess to have fanatics around instead of scientists - I'll just enjoy my discovery and be happy that I am not a fanatic - instead of sharing that there is hope - that there even are written instructions as to how to adjust for Audessy's inaccurate calculations.

Last edited by doognam; Today at 09:45 PM. Reason: fix awful aftertaste
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No one should be flamed here, period.
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