"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2517 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75481 of 75510 Old 05-02-2015, 04:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Changing the setting to 30 indeed fixes the Safari issue. Don't know why Forum default setting doesn't work. Maybe because we have crappy forum software.
Maybe it depends what the poster has their number of posts set to?! Either way, I agree with your last statement.
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post #75482 of 75510 Old 05-02-2015, 08:21 AM
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High-Back Couch

I have a high-back couch. How much higher should the measurements be taken than the back of the couch, especially for 7 and 8? Thanks. Ear level is a couple of inches below the top of the couch.
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post #75483 of 75510 Old 05-02-2015, 09:47 AM
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I have a high-back couch. How much higher should the measurements be taken than the back of the couch, especially for 7 and 8? Thanks. Ear level is a couple of inches below the top of the couch.

The main reason to get the mic. higher than the back of the couch is to let it "see" your rear speakers. So, a lot depends on whether you have rear speakers, how high they are, whether they are angled down, and so on. In general, taking a couple of measurements, in whatever order after #1, two to three inches higher seems to work pretty well. Three inches should get you just clear of the top of the sofa. If your couch is the leather one in your photo, it would be a good idea to cover it with a blanket or an absorbent towel, during calibration, to avoid comb filtering due to proximity to the mic.
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post #75484 of 75510 Old 05-02-2015, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
The main reason to get the mic. higher than the back of the couch is to let it "see" your rear speakers. So, a lot depends on whether you have rear speakers, how high they are, whether they are angled down, and so on. In general, taking a couple of measurements, in whatever order after #1, two to three inches higher seems to work pretty well. Three inches should get you just clear of the top of the sofa. If your couch is the leather one in your photo, it would be a good idea to cover it with a blanket or an absorbent towel, during calibration, to avoid comb filtering due to proximity to the mic.
Thanks for the great info. My surrounds are 2.5 feet above my head. Yes, the couch is identical to the one in the picture. I was just worried about position 7 and 8 since it looks as though from the diagram that they are over the back of the couch. Since the FAQ thread had stated that the mic should be 12-15 inches from the couch back I was unsure whether or not that was the case for vertically as well in accordance with position 7 and 8 since the back is directly below those measurements.

So 2-3 inches above the couch back for 7 and in 8 should be fine then? Thanks.
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post #75485 of 75510 Old 05-02-2015, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Thanks for the great info. My surrounds are 2.5 feet above my head. Yes, the couch is identical to the one in the picture. I was just worried about position 7 and 8 since it looks as though from the diagram that they are over the back of the couch. Since the FAQ thread had stated that the mic should be 12-15 inches from the couch back I was unsure whether or not that was the case for vertically as well in accordance with position 7 and 8 since the back is directly below those measurements.

So 2-3 inches above the couch back for 7 and in 8 should be fine then? Thanks.

You are very welcome.

The reason for staying 12"-15" from the couch back is to keep the Audyssey microphone from getting too close to the hard surface of the couch. If it does get too close, it may overcorrect high frequencies due to the spurious reflections bouncing from the couch into the mic. Using a blanket helps to solve the same problem, so you can actually get much closer to the couch back. With the blanket, even 6" away should be fine. As far as mic. height goes, stay about 6" forward, and then just barely clearing the top of the couch should be okay. So just go up about 3" from Position #1 rather than 2"-3" above the top of the couch. You want to keep everything fairly close to ear level if you can.
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post #75486 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 02:13 AM
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That second post of Roger's is a really good one. Like yourself, I tend to listen pretty closely to whatever he has to say.

This seems like a good opportunity to thank you once again for your commitment to this thread. I think you ought to hear periodically that your effort is appreciated. Creating the original FAQ was a lot of work, even though a number of others collaborated. Maintaining it, with updates and new links when necessary, is an ongoing time commitment, as well. I particularly like that you continue to be a helpful and enthusiastic participant on the thread even though you have moved on a bit with respect to Dirac Live. So, thanks!
Thanks for those kind word. Very much appreciated.
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post #75487 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 06:47 AM
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I have a question related to LFE.
I notice that at large explosion scenes, at some points it seems there is big stone in my sub cabinet that is bouncing inside. (Sorry, it's hard to explain).
Does this mean the sub is falling short to reproduce the content? If so, would adding a sub resolve the issue.
(As for settings, the sub is optimally placed in the room and Audyssey has set my sub to -11.5 dB. I have made it hot by 3.5db by setting the offset in the "Channel Level" for the input. (on Denon) ).
Appreciate your help.
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post #75488 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I have a question related to LFE.
I notice that at large explosion scenes, at some points it seems there is big stone in my sub cabinet that is bouncing inside. (Sorry, it's hard to explain).
Does this mean the sub is falling short to reproduce the content? If so, would adding a sub resolve the issue.
(As for settings, the sub is optimally placed in the room and Audyssey has set my sub to -11.5 dB. I have made it hot by 3.5db by setting the offset in the "Channel Level" for the input. (on Denon) ).
Appreciate your help.
You might be overdriving the sub... Try backing it back down to what Audyssey set it at and play the same scene.

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post #75489 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:34 AM
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What subwoofer is it and how big is the room? And at what volumes levels does it happen? Does the noise disappear at lower volumes?

Initial diagnosis: insufficient woofage
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post #75490 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
What subwoofer is it and how big is the room? And at what volumes levels does it happen? Does the noise disappear at lower volumes?

Initial diagnosis: insufficient woofage
The sub is ED A250
Room is about 1600 cuft. (18'x12'x7.5')
MV = -22dB
Audyssey set sub level = -11.5 dB
Sub boost = +3.5 dB (using channel level. So effective sub level = -8.0 dB)

I have not tried at lower volumes, but will check that.
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post #75491 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I have a question related to LFE.
I notice that at large explosion scenes, at some points it seems there is big stone in my sub cabinet that is bouncing inside. (Sorry, it's hard to explain).
Does this mean the sub is falling short to reproduce the content? If so, would adding a sub resolve the issue.
(As for settings, the sub is optimally placed in the room and Audyssey has set my sub to -11.5 dB. I have made it hot by 3.5db by setting the offset in the "Channel Level" for the input. (on Denon) ).
Appreciate your help.
Sounds to me like your sub is "bottoming out", which means the Motor is causing the voice coil to exceed the excursion limit for which the speaker was designed, and the sound you hear is the mechanical sound of the voice coil hitting the excursion limiters. This happens when you feed the sub a signal louder than it can handle. Turn down the sub trim to avoid this from happening. Additional subs can improve the headroom of the bass, if you want LFE sound effects in movies to play at a loud level. Try a couple of Seaton Submersives...
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post #75492 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post
What subwoofer is it and how big is the room? And at what volumes levels does it happen? Does the noise disappear at lower volumes?

Initial diagnosis: insufficient woofage
The sub is ED A250
Room is about 1600 cuft. (18'x12'x7.5')
MV = -22dB
Audyssey set sub level = -11.5 dB
Sub boost = +3.5 dB (using channel level. So effective sub level = -8.0 dB)

I have not tried at lower volumes, but will check that.
Hmmmm. That's a small room and even with the 3.5db boost you are still 20db below reference. That's only 95db peaks in LFE and that sub should handle that no problem.

I might revise the diagnosis to potentially broken subwoofer
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post #75493 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Hmmmm. That's a small room and even with the 3.5db boost you are still 20db below reference. That's only 95db peaks in LFE and that sub should handle that no problem.

I might revise the diagnosis to potentially broken subwoofer
oops. But apart from the large explosions, it behaves normally.
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post #75494 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
oops. But apart from the large explosions, it behaves normally.
Do you have kids? Could they have dropped a toy in the port?
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post #75495 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sounds to me like your sub is "bottoming out", which means the Motor is causing the voice coil to exceed the excursion limit for which the speaker was designed, and the sound you hear is the mechanical sound of the voice coil hitting the excursion limiters. This happens when you feed the sub a signal louder than it can handle. Turn down the sub trim to avoid this from happening. Additional subs can improve the headroom of the bass, if you want LFE sound effects in movies to play at a loud level. Try a couple of Seaton Submersives...
Thanks Jerry..
Looks like I need to look for one or two new subs.
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post #75496 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Hmmmm. That's a small room and even with the 3.5db boost you are still 20db below reference. That's only 95db peaks in LFE and that sub should handle that no problem.

I might revise the diagnosis to potentially broken subwoofer

I will gladly defer to you and Jerry on this issue, but it seems to me that if a moderately powered sub has an Audyssey setting of -11.5, it is likely to already have the sub's gain set high. Then if you add 3.5db, depending on the MV setting, I could see the sub bottoming out during explosions, or whatever, particularly if you potentially factor DEQ into the equation. I suspect that your original diagnosis was correct.
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post #75497 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I will gladly defer to you and Jerry on this issue, but it seems to me that if a moderately powered sub has an Audyssey setting of -11.5, it is likely to already have the sub's gain set high. Then if you add 3.5db, depending on the MV setting, I could see the sub bottoming out during explosions, or whatever, particularly if you potentially factor DEQ into the equation. I suspect that your original diagnosis was correct.
sub gain knob is between 1 and 2 o'clock position.
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post #75498 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I will gladly defer to you and Jerry on this issue, but it seems to me that if a moderately powered sub has an Audyssey setting of -11.5, it is likely to already have the sub's gain set high. Then if you add 3.5db, depending on the MV setting, I could see the sub bottoming out during explosions, or whatever, particularly if you potentially factor DEQ into the equation. I suspect that your original diagnosis was correct.
I concur. Before he tries a new sub it might be worth recalibrating to get a higher trim and a lower gain setting on the sub itself. I'd aim for maybe an Audyssey set trim of say -5dB which he can boost to -1.5dB. If that doesn't stop the problem I'd say the sub has been damaged.
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post #75499 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
I concur. Before he tries a new sub it might be worth recalibrating to get a higher trim and a lower gain setting on the sub itself. I'd aim for maybe an Audyssey set trim of say -5dB which he can boost to -1.5dB. If that doesn't stop the problem I'd say the sub has been damaged.
Okay Keith. Will try to get into that ballpark. From my past experience normally the gain knob at 12 O'clock achieves that.
I was under the (wrong maybe) impression that setting the sub gain such that Audyssey setting goes closer to -12.0 db would be the best thing. That would give you more boosting power.
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post #75500 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM
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Okay Keith. Will try to get into that ballpark. From my past experience normally the gain knob at 12 O'clock achieves that.
I was under the (wrong maybe) impression that setting the sub gain such that Audyssey setting goes closer to -12.0 db would be the best thing. That would give you more boosting power.
It's a balancing act. You may have the balance wrong for your particular situation. It's worth trying to rebalance IMO before deciding there's a problem. If the sub isn't broken then there has to be a reason why it's bottoming and overdriving would usually be that reason. Worth a try anyway.
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post #75501 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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My two sub's gain controls are set @ 9 o'clock. And Audyssey set my LFE/Sub channel level @ -9.5 dB.

* From all my readings the average gain control on people's subs is between 9 and 11 o'clock. ...I'm just sayin'.
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post #75502 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I was under the (wrong maybe) impression that setting the sub gain such that Audyssey setting goes closer to -12.0 db would be the best thing. That would give you more boosting power.
You have the right impression as reagrds the sub channel trim set by Audyssey. Worry not. And you are not under a "balancing act", whatever that means!

BTW, I tried to google you sub (ED A250) but nothing came up. Does ED stand for Elemental Design or something else? Anyhow is this a sealed or a ported sub? If ported and you have kids I would agree with primetimeguy and would call the phenomenon you are hearing as "Lego syndrome". LOL
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post #75503 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 03:51 PM
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You have the right impression as reagrds the sub channel trim set by Audyssey. Worry not. And you are not under a "balancing act", whatever that means!

BTW, I tried to google you sub (ED A250) but nothing came up. Does ED stand for Elemental Design or something else? Anyhow is this a sealed or a ported sub? If ported and you have kids I would agree with primetimeguy and would call the phenomenon you are hearing as "Lego syndrome". LOL
It's Elemental Designs (that went under).
It's either A250 or A300 (I really don't remember)
It's a ported sub. And there is no Lego Syndrome. No kids here.
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post #75504 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
It's a balancing act. You may have the balance wrong for your particular situation. It's worth trying to rebalance IMO before deciding there's a problem. If the sub isn't broken then there has to be a reason why it's bottoming and overdriving would usually be that reason. Worth a try anyway.
Balancing act complete. Audyssey set the sub to -5.0. The sub gain knob had to be a bit below 10 O'clock to get that.
Yet to test it though. Will do it little later and report..
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post #75505 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 04:03 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Balancing act complete. Audyssey set the sub to -5.0. The sub gain knob had to be a bit below 10 O'clock to get that.
Yet to test it though. Will do it little later and report..
I think the suggestions you have received to fine-tune output and lower volume will help you manage what well could be a short-coming in the sub's performance. But ultimately, you should explore the limits of the sub's capabilities. A controlled way of doing this would be to output a low frequency test tone to the sub channel, gradually raise the volume and see how high you can go before you start hearing strange noises, indicating the sub is under stress. Do this carefully, so as not to damage the sub. Of course, if you get noises at low volume levels, this could indicate that there is already damage to the sub.

It is not too late to consider dual Seaton Submersives...
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post #75506 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I think the suggestions you have received to fine-tune output and lower volume will help you manage what well could be a short-coming in the sub's performance. But ultimately, you should explore the limits of the sub's capabilities. A controlled way of doing this would be to output a low frequency test tone to the sub channel, gradually raise the volume and see how high you can go before you start hearing strange noises, indicating the sub is under stress. Do this carefully, so as not to damage the sub. Of course, if you get noises at low volume levels, this could indicate that there is already damage to the sub.

It is not too late to consider dual Seaton Submersives...
Thanks Jerry.
I will try that sub test you mentioned.
Looked at the Seatons. Wow, I fainted. It's way out of my league. My max reach would be the SVS PB-1000. But thanks for suggestion.
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post #75507 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 05:17 PM
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Thanks Jerry.
I will try that sub test you mentioned.
Looked at the Seatons. Wow, I fainted. It's way out of my league. My max reach would be the SVS PB-1000. But thanks for suggestion.
I understand. They are out of reach for many of us. But I thought I would mention them. Sometimes it feels good to hit a home run instead a single...
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post #75508 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 05:34 PM
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I understand. They are out of reach for many of us. But I thought I would mention them. Sometimes it feels good to hit a home run instead a single...
Yeah. Only if I was a Wall Street Tycoon...
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post #75509 of 75510 Old Yesterday, 07:02 PM
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Balancing act complete. Audyssey set the sub to -5.0. The sub gain knob had to be a bit below 10 O'clock to get that.
Yet to test it though. Will do it little later and report..
Looks like my sub is (still) alive.
After doing what Keith has said and with 2.5dB boost, it's not so bad.
May be I was pushing the sub way too hard??
Thanks everyone for the help.
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post #75510 of 75510 Old Today, 05:31 AM
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You have the right impression as reagrds the sub channel trim set by Audyssey. Worry not.
LOL. Audyssey can never be wrong. Audyssey is infallible. It is more likely someone has Lego pieces inside their sub than Audyssey could be wrong. ROFLMAO. I must remember to advise people of, what did you call it, "Lego Syndrome"... Brilliant.
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