"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2518 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75511 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks Jerry.
I will try that sub test you mentioned.
Looked at the Seatons. Wow, I fainted. It's way out of my league. My max reach would be the SVS PB-1000. But thanks for suggestion.

Thing is, with Submersives they will be the last subs you ever buy. So while they are expensive up front, over time and money saved on upgraditis, they might actually work out cheaper in the long run. Well, that's how I justified it to myself anyway LOL.
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post #75512 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 05:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
LOL. Audyssey can never be wrong. Audyssey is infallible.
Once again your ugly prejudicial words not his. Are you new at this?
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post #75513 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Looks like my sub is (still) alive.
After doing what Keith has said and with 2.5dB boost, it's not so bad.
May be I was pushing the sub way too hard??
Thanks everyone for the help.

Good news that your sub appears to be undamaged and that the tweak you made helps. It does sound as if you were simply pushing it too hard, and you may be in good shape again, at least for a while. You mentioned SVS. They make very good subs; not in the Submersive class, but I believe still an excellent value overall. I think as a longer term strategy, it might be worthwhile looking at an upgrade to get lower/louder bass. If you do, also take a look at some of the SVS cylinders: the PC12-NSD or the Plus. You can sometimes find very good deals on used ones as people either trade up or move to smaller places where they can't use them anymore.

I believe I remember seeing you over on the Atmos thread. If so, you probably really enjoy the movie experience, and getting more/better bass might be an important aspect of that. Going from your current 300 watt sub to even a single Submersive (much less a pair) would be like going from a Pinto to a Ferrari. But the advice to consider an upgrade may still be perfectly valid. You may just need to approach it a little more gradually. I hope you don't mind me weighing in on this.

Regards,
Mike
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post #75514 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Good news that your sub appears to be undamaged and that the tweak you made helps. It does sound as if you were simply pushing it too hard, and you may be in good shape again, at least for a while. You mentioned SVS. They make very good subs; not in the Submersive class, but I believe still an excellent value overall. I think as a longer term strategy, it might be worthwhile looking at an upgrade to get lower/louder bass. If you do, also take a look at some of the SVS cylinders: the PC12-NSD or the Plus. You can sometimes find very good deals on used ones as people either trade up or move to smaller places where they can't use them anymore.

I believe I remember seeing you over on the Atmos thread. If so, you probably really enjoy the movie experience, and getting more/better bass might be an important aspect of that. Going from your current 300 watt sub to even a single Submersive (much less a pair) would be like going from a Pinto to a Ferrari. But the advice to consider an upgrade may still be perfectly valid. You may just need to approach it a little more gradually. I hope you don't mind me weighing in on this.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you Mike. I welcome your advice.
Do you think the cylinder subs perfrom better than the traditional boxes, or it's just a design compromise to accomadate into tighter space?
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post #75515 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thank you Mike. I welcome your advice.
Do you think the cylinder subs perfrom better than the traditional boxes, or it's just a design compromise to accomadate into tighter space?

I don't think there would be a measurable or audible performance difference between equivalent models of cylinders and boxes. But the cylinder isn't a design compromise. SVS started with cylinders, because they delivered good performance in a smaller footprint, and for less weight, than a comparable box would have. The weight can be a factor if you are moving your sub around. The cylinders are not difficult for a person to manage by himself.

According to SVS, the cylinders are also about 10% less expensive than comparable box models. I was suggesting upgrading to a 12" woofer rather than another 10", and because cylinders are more popular (and plentiful), I think you would probably be able to get a better deal on one.
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post #75516 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Gary J View Post
Once again your ugly prejudicial words not his. Are you new at this?
Found any Lego in your sub lately? LOL.
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post #75517 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Good news that your sub appears to be undamaged and that the tweak you made helps. It does sound as if you were simply pushing it too hard, and you may be in good shape again, at least for a while. You mentioned SVS. They make very good subs; not in the Submersive class, but I believe still an excellent value overall. I think as a longer term strategy, it might be worthwhile looking at an upgrade to get lower/louder bass. If you do, also take a look at some of the SVS cylinders: the PC12-NSD or the Plus. You can sometimes find very good deals on used ones as people either trade up or move to smaller places where they can't use them anymore.

I believe I remember seeing you over on the Atmos thread. If so, you probably really enjoy the movie experience, and getting more/better bass might be an important aspect of that. Going from your current 300 watt sub to even a single Submersive (much less a pair) would be like going from a Pinto to a Ferrari. But the advice to consider an upgrade may still be perfectly valid. You may just need to approach it a little more gradually. I hope you don't mind me weighing in on this.

Regards,
Mike
I agree - I used to have a pair of SVS PC12-NSD cylinder subs - they are fantastic performers for the money. aaranddemann would not regret buying one (or two) of those.
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post #75518 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I don't think there would be a measurable or audible performance difference between equivalent models of cylinders and boxes. But the cylinder isn't a design compromise. SVS started with cylinders, because they delivered good performance in a smaller footprint, and for less weight, than a comparable box would have. The weight can be a factor if you are moving your sub around. The cylinders are not difficult for a person to manage by himself.

According to SVS, the cylinders are also about 10% less expensive than comparable box models. I was suggesting upgrading to a 12" woofer rather than another 10", and because cylinders are more popular (and plentiful), I think you would probably be able to get a better deal on one.
Also, of course, a cylinder is an inherently very strong form factor allowing SVS to squeeze terrific performance out of the sub for less weight, less footprint and less cost.
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post #75519 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Looks like my sub is (still) alive.
After doing what Keith has said and with 2.5dB boost, it's not so bad.
May be I was pushing the sub way too hard??
Thanks everyone for the help.
aaranddeeman, I have some doubt that recalibrating your system could really solve your problem. You went from "big stone in sub cabinet bouncing inside" to "it's not so bad".

Think of the re-calibration like this please. Audyssey set your sub to reference level. You had a -11.5 dB sub trim with gain knob on the sub between 1-2 o'clock. Now you have a -5 dB trim with sub set to 10 o'clock. Nothing changed, the SPL delivered by the sub remained the same with both calibrations.

On another note, neither the -11.5 dB nor the -5 dB would drive the preamp of the avr and the plate amp of the sub into clipping.

You just decreased the signal input of the sub, yet increased the signal output of the avr. The big stone doesn't seem to be an electronic issue in this case.

Whether you'd like to investigate your case in more depth is up to you, of course.

Last edited by mogorf; 05-04-2015 at 11:08 AM.
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post #75520 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
aaranddeeman, I have some doubt that recalibrating your system could really solve your problem. You went from "big stone in sub cabinet bouncing inside" to "it's not so bad".

Think of the re-calibration like this please. Audyssey set your sub to reference level. You had a -11.5 dB sub trim with gain knob on the sub between 1-2 o'clock. Now you have a -5 dB trim with sub set to 10 o'clock. Nothing changed, the SPL delivered by the sub remained the same with both calibrations.

On another note, neither the -11.5 dB nor the -5 dB would drive the preamp of the avr and the plate amp of the sub into clipping.

You just decreased the signal input of the sub, yet increased the signal output of the avr. The big stone doesn't seem to be an electronic issue in this case.

Whether you'd like to investigate your case in more depth is up to you, of course.
I am listening...
I thought the same way when I was going lowest on sub trim setting by Audyssey, but...
I would sure like to investigate further. Any help is appreciated.
Just to be clear, the bad behaviour is mainly like when "building collapsing on each other with explosions" . Seems like sub is trying hard to reproduce the sound but may be reaching it's limits.
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post #75521 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The link still doesn't take me to the right place when using my iPad, Keith. Can you specify the exact post number, please?
The post's unique ID is 22996795. I cant understand why the link doesn't take you there - the idea of the unique ID is that it is, well, unique, and a link can’t go anywhere else. Odd.
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post #75522 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Jerry, I think you have to change the number of posts per thread back to the default for the link to work. I seem to recall you having yours set to 100 (like me) and the link also doesn't work for me. I'm too lazy to change to mine back and forth but I wasn't sure if you knew about this or not.
You saying the link doesn’t take you to Roger's post either? It has nothing to do with the ppp setting - the unique ID overrides all that which is why I always use unique IDs for links. If the link doesn’t take you there, then AVS is broken somehow.
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post #75523 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I am listening...
I thought the same way when I was going lowest on sub trim setting by Audyssey, but...
I would sure like to investigate further. Any help is appreciated.
Just to be clear, the bad behaviour is mainly like when "building collapsing on each other with explosions" . Seems like sub is trying hard to reproduce the sound but may be reaching it's limits.
As you have described it previously this also happens at -22 dB MV. Hmmm, a broken sub?
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post #75524 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
You saying the link doesn’t take you to Roger's post either? It has nothing to do with the ppp setting - the unique ID overrides all that which is why I always use unique IDs for links. If the link doesn’t take you there, then AVS is broken somehow.

The first "this post" link in the FAQ section referenced (after links to Roger and Mark) takes me to the top of p. 115 (out of 129) or here:

Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread
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post #75525 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
The first "this post" link in the FAQ section referenced (after links to Roger and Mark) takes me to the top of p. 115 (out of 129) or here:

Marantz AV8801 Preamp/Processor Official Owner's thread
Weird. The whole point of using the unique ID is that it overrides everything else, such as ppp, deleted posts, user settings etc and refers directly to the AVS database. It must be broken in some way - we do get a lot of 'database errors' in this thread, so maybe that has a bearing on it. There's nothing I can do - if I link to the post in the usual way, then anyone with a ppp setting of anything other than 30 is guaranteed to be taken to the wrong place.

Incidentally, do the other links work for you? Try these:

a)2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand?

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?

f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it?

(They all use Unique Post ID too.)
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post #75526 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Weird. The whole point of using the unique ID is that it overrides everything else, such as ppp, deleted posts, user settings etc and refers directly to the AVS database. It must be broken in some way - we do get a lot of 'database errors' in this thread, so maybe that has a bearing on it. There's nothing I can do - if I link to the post in the usual way, then anyone with a ppp setting of anything other than 30 is guaranteed to be taken to the wrong place.

Incidentally, do the other links work for you? Try these:

a)2. Why is dialogue from the centre channel difficult to hear or understand?

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?

f)7. What is ‘LFE + Main’ or ‘Double Bass’ and should I use it?

(They all use Unique Post ID too.)

Yes, all 3 links work fine. Incidentally, I'm on Windows 8.1 with IE 11.
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post #75527 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Yes, all 3 links work fine. Incidentally, I'm on Windows 8.1 with IE 11.
Very odd. All those FAQ links use Unique Post ID as does the link to Roger's post.
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post #75528 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Very odd. All those FAQ links use Unique Post ID as does the link to Roger's post.
Obviously something is FUBAR.
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post #75529 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Very odd. All those FAQ links use Unique Post ID as does the link to Roger's post.

Are you sure that all of the posts are using unique ID's? When hovering over the posts, I get a short description if the link is a Unique ID:



and nothing shows up on the links that aren't working:


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Hi all - I have a problem that might by Audyssey related so I was hoping you could help me out.

Equipment:
JTR Noesis 228HT LCR, JBL 8340a surrounds.
Seaton Terraform x2 subs
Denon 4520ci with XT32

Here's a frequency response after running audyssey:


When I look at Audyssey and check the eq it is using, it shows me this picture which makes it seem that Audyssey itself is causing the 125hz suckout. Is that the case?
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post #75531 of 75538 Old 05-04-2015, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Are you sure that all of the posts are using unique ID's? When hovering over the posts, I get a short description if the link is a Unique ID:



and nothing shows up on the links that aren't working:

This is the unique ID of the post I am replying to:

{url}http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-2518.html#[/url]post33982130

I can't remember of course if every single AVS internal link has been corrected. I know it took days of work to fix the FAQ after they downgraded to VB from Huddler.

Last edited by kbarnes701; 05-04-2015 at 03:50 PM.
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post #75532 of 75538 Old Yesterday, 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
This is the unique ID of the post I am replying to:

{url}http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-receivers-amps-processors/795421-official-audyssey-thread-faq-post-51779-a-2518.html#[/url]post33982130

I can't remember of course if every single AVS internal link has been corrected. I know it took days of work to fix the FAQ after they downgraded to VB from Huddler.

I remember and certainly wasn't implying that you should personally have to fix all of them. My point was simply that the particular link(s) that are broken (for some of us) don't appear to be ones that use a unique ID so this could be the cause of the issue.
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post #75533 of 75538 Old Yesterday, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
I remember and certainly wasn't implying that you should personally have to fix all of them. My point was simply that the particular link(s) that are broken (for some of us) don't appear to be ones that use a unique ID so this could be the cause of the issue.
No worries. The link that you are referring to though ("this post" in answer c5) does use the unique post ID, which is why I don't understand how it is taking you to a different post altogether. By definition if the post ID is "unique" it can only take you to one specific post.

c)5. What is the LPF of LFE and what should it be set to?



There is another link in that post which references a Mark Seaton post and that doesn't have a unique ID, so I will fix that one now.

If anyone spots any others in the FAQ, please let me know and I will be happy to fix them.

EDIT: Fixed the link to Mark Seaton's post now.


Last edited by kbarnes701; Yesterday at 06:59 AM.
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post #75534 of 75538 Old Yesterday, 08:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post
Hi all - I have a problem that might by Audyssey related so I was hoping you could help me out.

Equipment:
JTR Noesis 228HT LCR, JBL 8340a surrounds.
Seaton Terraform x2 subs
Denon 4520ci with XT32

Here's a frequency response after running audyssey:


When I look at Audyssey and check the eq it is using, it shows me this picture which makes it seem that Audyssey itself is causing the 125hz suckout. Is that the case?

I think your question may have gotten lost a little bit in the discussion of FAQ links. As I understand it, the crude EQ graph on your Denon simply represents an approximation of what Audyssey is trying to do with the EQ. I don't think you could look at that graph and conclude that Audyssey caused the large dip. More likely, there was a dip, or null, that Audyssey tried unsuccessfully to correct. Assuming that the sub locations and calibration procedures are correct, you may have a room issue which requires acoustical treatments. Have you measured similar results independent of Audyssey? Were you running Dynamic Volume when you took your measurements?
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Last edited by mthomas47; Yesterday at 08:19 AM.
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post #75535 of 75538 Old Yesterday, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jparker36 View Post
Hi all - I have a problem that might by Audyssey related so I was hoping you could help me out.

Equipment:
JTR Noesis 228HT LCR, JBL 8340a surrounds.
Seaton Terraform x2 subs
Denon 4520ci with XT32

Here's a frequency response after running audyssey:
How many microphone locations did you use and how large an area did you span? Try overlaying no EQ measurements from the different locations and see if a couple raw measurements show a big peak at that location. With that info you can determine if a better array of measurements will give more desirable results. I would also look at the LCR individually and the subs on their own so you don't confuse a cancellation that can be manipulated by distance settings vs. an EQ issue.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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After running my audysey last night my LFE was set to 120hz. Should i changed it to 80hz?
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post #75537 of 75538 Unread Today, 11:51 AM
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Originally Posted by tapsilog View Post
After running my audysey last night my LFE was set to 120hz. Should i changed it to 80hz?
Audyssey did nothing of the sort--that is the default value. Read the FAQ, please.
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