"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2526 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #75751 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
primetimeguy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: St. Paul, MN
Posts: 4,186
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 357 Post(s)
Liked: 199
Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Alright,

I had now a chance to listen some more to the new processor and what Audyssey did after I set everything up.

Right now I am relatively happy with the SQ, everything including the bass seems to be spot on. I took the advise on the FAQ and run the Sub 2 dB hotter for some more fun.

The only thing which is a bit annoying is the center/dialogue level which is pretty low for my taste.

I think this might be related to my center placement as I had to run the center a good + 2.5 dB hotter on my previous processors as well.

Now I have the option to raise the trim under general settings, but in addition to that I have the option on the Marantz to adjust each channels volume from another options menu when running a movie.

Does anyone know what the difference is? The trims in both menus are not the same, so when running the Center at e.g. +6 db I still get the option to adjust another +12 db from the other options menu.

My problem right now is that not just the dialoge level seems to be pretty low, but there is a loss of detail as well when I have audyssey enabled unless I crank the center up.

Without Audyssey enabled all those details are there, but then the bass is lacking because the dynamic EQ is not enabled.
Dynamic EQ could be increasing the bass too much and masking some of the dialog or making it harder to hear. A few things you can try and see if you like it better.

- Try using the Reference Level Offset for Dynamic EQ, set it to 5db or even 10db
- Turn off Dyn EQ and just boost the sub a couple more db.
- Rather than the Audyssey reference curve, try the flat/music curve
primetimeguy is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #75752 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 12:51 PM
Advanced Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Alright,

I had now a chance to listen some more to the new processor and what Audyssey did after I set everything up.

Right now I am relatively happy with the SQ, everything including the bass seems to be spot on. I took the advise on the FAQ and run the Sub 2 dB hotter for some more fun.

The only thing which is a bit annoying is the center/dialogue level which is pretty low for my taste.

I think this might be related to my center placement as I had to run the center a good + 2.5 dB hotter on my previous processors as well.

Now I have the option to raise the trim under general settings, but in addition to that I have the option on the Marantz to adjust each channels volume from another options menu when running a movie.

Does anyone know what the difference is? The trims in both menus are not the same, so when running the Center at e.g. +6 db I still get the option to adjust another +12 db from the other options menu.

My problem right now is that not just the dialoge level seems to be pretty low, but there is a loss of detail as well when I have audyssey enabled unless I crank the center up.

Without Audyssey enabled all those details are there, but then the bass is lacking because the dynamic EQ is not enabled.

Before you try cranking up the center volume any more, you might want to trouble shoot your set-up and calibration a little more. Could you post a picture showing the location of your center? Experience has shown that if the center is pushed back too far on a shelf, or not pointed up (or down, depending) at listening height, there can be a loss of volume and/or clarity. Something like that may very well be the problem.

You could also try running additional calibrations, varying the mic. positions a little, in the hope that you will get a better result. If you do, be sure to keep a record of your mic. positions for your best calibration.

If neither of those options works, you can probably continue to adjust your center channel upward a little bit, without any harm. But regardless of where the adjustment is made, I believe your volume will max out at +12. I wouldn't feel comfortable running too much farther into the plus range, but that may just be me. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
post #75753 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 12:54 PM
Member
 
REM Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Thanks for the advice,

I am currently already using the flat setting, however I still have the feeling that there is a loss of detail from the center ( felt even worse with the reference settings).

Will tinker around with the dynamic EQ settings a bit to see if that makes a difference.

Undortunately I dont have a possibility to measure the room.

Just to give you a sample of what I am talking about: When Tony Starks HQ gets attacked by the Helicopters in Iron Man 3 there is this moment when the first missile hits and Stark calls the suit to protect Pepper. When the suit "lands" on pepper there are still pieces of stones etc. flying around and one hits her on the suit's chestpiece. Without Audyssey you can hear the impact of this stone on the suit...with Audyssey Flat/Reference this detail is lost, unless I increase center volume by 3 db or so.

I think I watched this part of the movie already a hundred times over the weekend to get the settings right.
REM Germany is offline  
post #75754 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 01:02 PM
Member
 
REM Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Before you try cranking up the center volume any more, you might want to trouble shoot your set-up and calibration a little more. Could you post a picture showing the location of your center? Experience has shown that if the center is pushed back too far on a shelf, or not pointed up (or down, depending) at listening height, there can be a loss of volume and/or clarity. Something like that may very well be the problem.

You could also try running additional calibrations, varying the mic. positions a little, in the hope that you will get a better result. If you do, be sure to keep a record of your mic. positions for your best calibration.

If neither of those options works, you can probably continue to adjust your center channel upward a little bit, without any harm. But regardless of where the adjustment is made, I believe your volume will max out at +12. I wouldn't feel comfortable running too much farther into the plus range, but that may just be me. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

The center is located on a shelf and the front of the center ends exactly at the end of the shelf, so its not really pushed back.

However you are right that it is slightly above my listening position and not pointing down.

I considered this as problematic already, but as I am using active speakers the center is pretty heavy and I need to figure out a way how to raise it but preventing it from slipping down the shelf.

When adjusting the center channel I am running at +6 dB so there is still a bit of room until reaching the +12 db mark.

I am listening at way below reference level as well, so It should hopefully be fine.
REM Germany is offline  
post #75755 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 01:04 PM
Advanced Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Thanks for the advice,

I am currently already using the flat setting, however I still have the feeling that there is a loss of detail from the center ( felt even worse with the reference settings).

Will tinker around with the dynamic EQ settings a bit to see if that makes a difference.

Undortunately I dont have a possibility to measure the room.

Just to give you a sample of what I am talking about: When Tony Starks HQ gets attacked by the Helicopters in Iron Man 3 there is this moment when the first missile hits and Stark calls the suit to protect Pepper. When the suit "lands" on pepper there are still pieces of stones etc. flying around and one hits her on the suit's chestpiece. Without Audyssey you can hear the impact of this stone on the suit...with Audyssey Flat/Reference this detail is lost, unless I increase center volume by 3 db or so.

I think I watched this part of the movie already a hundred times over the weekend to get the settings right.
When you increase the center channel by 3db, is that when you get to +6? If so, I don't see any harm in that. I was concerned that you needed to continue to increase even beyond +6, and I would start to worry about your speaker if you got too high. Again, I may be just a little cautious about that sort of thing.

I cross-posted with you there, so I will edit this. Try pulling your center forward so that it clears the edge of the shelf by an inch, or so. That should help. I understand the problem with trying to tilt the speaker forward, but even a fractional angle downward might also help. You could try putting a very thin shim of some sort under the back edge just as an experiment. I'm guessing that positioning is at least a part of the problem.

Last edited by mthomas47; Yesterday at 01:14 PM.
mthomas47 is online now  
post #75756 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 02:24 PM
Senior Member
 
zebidou81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lancashire - England
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?
zebidou81 is online now  
post #75757 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Soulburner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,143
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 194 Post(s)
Liked: 165
I think the biggest effect you'll see regarding that will be adjusting the subwoofer distance (in the setup menu) and/or its location.
Soulburner is offline  
post #75758 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 05:00 PM
Advanced Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebidou81 View Post
Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?

I think Soulburner's right about bass response not being affected as much by mic. height. Nevertheless, I would try to keep the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3 positions. I suppose it's possible that you are in a null. Is this a new problem that just occurred from your last calibration? If it is, changing your mic. pattern could work. Try it with the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3. You can also try using a tighter (smaller) pattern. Have you done a sub crawl to test the relationship of your sub to your MLP?
mthomas47 is online now  
post #75759 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 09:44 PM
Member
 
johnnymacIII's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 188
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebidou81 View Post
Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?
You could just substitute measurements 7 and 8 for 9 & 10 to keep everything at ear height. I don't believe you are supposed to raise the mic any more than 3 inches above ear height.

I wonder if position 7 & 8 is positioned in a null and after Audyssey averages, is calling for a boost? Then when you sit in your PLP you are out of the null, but the extra boost at that frequency is making it sound boomy.

Try giving position 9 n 10 a go keeping everything at ear height and the mic no closer than 12 inches to the back of the couch (regardless of PLP) unless you have a cloth couch or cover the couch with a blanket.

Also, if you are keeping the mic 12 inches from the back of the couch try only moving positions 4,5,and 6 only 12 inches out from 1,2, and 3 instead of 24 inches.

I hope this helps some.
johnnymacIII is online now  
post #75760 of 75762 Old Yesterday, 10:40 PM
Member
 
REM Germany's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Posts: 96
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
When you increase the center channel by 3db, is that when you get to +6? If so, I don't see any harm in that. I was concerned that you needed to continue to increase even beyond +6, and I would start to worry about your speaker if you got too high. Again, I may be just a little cautious about that sort of thing.

I cross-posted with you there, so I will edit this. Try pulling your center forward so that it clears the edge of the shelf by an inch, or so. That should help. I understand the problem with trying to tilt the speaker forward, but even a fractional angle downward might also help. You could try putting a very thin shim of some sort under the back edge just as an experiment. I'm guessing that positioning is at least a part of the problem.

Yes, +6 is the setting when I already increased the Center trim.


After Audyssey it is set to +2.5 if I remember correctly.


I will try out your advice with the shelf as well and rerun Audyssey.


Thanks!
REM Germany is offline  
post #75761 of 75762 Old Today, 05:15 AM
Senior Member
 
zebidou81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lancashire - England
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I think Soulburner's right about bass response not being affected as much by mic. height. Nevertheless, I would try to keep the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3 positions. I suppose it's possible that you are in a null. Is this a new problem that just occurred from your last calibration? If it is, changing your mic. pattern could work. Try it with the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3. You can also try using a tighter (smaller) pattern. Have you done a sub crawl to test the relationship of your sub to your MLP?
I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ? i may turn up the sub levels as i have left trims for subs as set by Audyssey, i recently purchased some new rear surrounds and since then i have ran Audyssey again but as rear surrounds are higher than ear level and the back of my sofa is also higher than ear level, i placed the mic level with rear surrounds and above sofa back but this in turn is higher than my front L/R and L/R Surrounds and it seems to have given a poor Audyssey Calibration.

I Think the following is the right way forward please add if there is something i have missed =

1= I want the Calibration to be done where i sit exactly my head not moving the mic to a position in space that my head will not be when sat, as this puts the mic a few inches away from leather sofa back, i will cover the sofa back with a towel.

2= I will leave the mic at ear level for mic positions 1-6 slightly lower than sofa back and rear surrounds, but for mic positions 7-8 i shall raise mic positions a few inches so that rear surrounds are visible.

3= as the towel is on sofa back i can have the mic a few mm from sofa back and where my head will be, i can remove towel afterwards but how will this effect sound ?

4= If i am not happy with bass i shall turn subs up +2 db

5= try as Johnny mac suggests moving mic positions 12" instead of 24" and move mic positions 7+8 to 9+10 fill in the gaps if the above does not work

If i am missing something that will give me a better overall calibration and improved bass please fill in the gaps, Also is the Audyssey Pro kit worth the money for the extra results given ? thank you

KEF Q500 FRONTS - Q200C CENTRE - Q100 SURROUNDS - C1 REAR SURROUNDS - HTB2SE SUBWOOFERS X 2
3001SE ATMOS SPEAKERS - POWERD BY MARANTZ SR7009 - SAMSUNG 55 4K TV - OPTOMA HD26 PJ

Last edited by zebidou81; Today at 05:27 AM.
zebidou81 is online now  
post #75762 of 75762 Old Today, 07:30 AM
Advanced Member
 
mthomas47's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 514
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 199 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Quote:
Originally Posted by zebidou81 View Post
I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ? i may turn up the sub levels as i have left trims for subs as set by Audyssey, i recently purchased some new rear surrounds and since then i have ran Audyssey again but as rear surrounds are higher than ear level and the back of my sofa is also higher than ear level, i placed the mic level with rear surrounds and above sofa back but this in turn is higher than my front L/R and L/R Surrounds and it seems to have given a poor Audyssey Calibration.

I Think the following is the right way forward please add if there is something i have missed =

1= I want the Calibration to be done where i sit exactly my head not moving the mic to a position in space that my head will not be when sat, as this puts the mic a few inches away from leather sofa back, i will cover the sofa back with a towel.

2= I will leave the mic at ear level for mic positions 1-6 slightly lower than sofa back and rear surrounds, but for mic positions 7-8 i shall raise mic positions a few inches so that rear surrounds are visible.

3= as the towel is on sofa back i can have the mic a few mm from sofa back and where my head will be, i can remove towel afterwards but how will this effect sound ?

4= If i am not happy with bass i shall turn subs up +2 db

5= try as Johnny mac suggests moving mic positions 12" instead of 24" and move mic positions 7+8 to 9+10 fill in the gaps if the above does not work

If i am missing something that will give me a better overall calibration and improved bass please fill in the gaps, Also is the Audyssey Pro kit worth the money for the extra results given ? thank you

Hi,

In general, your strategy looks good to me. I will, though, try to address a few specific aspects of it. First, a lot of people like to turn their subs up a few decibels after running Audyssey, so adding 2-3db should be fine. Second, I do think you will get better results with most of your mic. positions, and particularly #1 , at ear level. Doing a couple of mic. positions 2"-3" higher works well for a lot of people, including myself. Third, removing the towel after calibration will not adversely affect the sound. I can explain this in detail, if necessary. Fourth, depending on how large a listening area you are trying to calibrate, tighter mic. positions can help to improve audio quality. So, using about 12" patterns, and filling in gaps with your final two positions, is a technique that works very well for me, but you will have to try it to find out whether it also suits your needs. For many of us, there is a certain amount of trial and error which goes into obtaining really satisfactory calibrations. Finally, I have never owned (or needed) the Pro Kit, but from reports from those on the thread who have owned it, I would judge that it probably is not worth the extra expenditure. I see it as more of a hobbyist tool, than as something really essential to achieve a good calibration result.

I think you are on the right track with your plan just as it is. Let us know how it works out.

Regards,
Mike
mthomas47 is online now  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Tags
Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
Gear in this thread - Kht1005 by PriceGrabber.com

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off