"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2526 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75751 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 12:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Alright,

I had now a chance to listen some more to the new processor and what Audyssey did after I set everything up.

Right now I am relatively happy with the SQ, everything including the bass seems to be spot on. I took the advise on the FAQ and run the Sub 2 dB hotter for some more fun.

The only thing which is a bit annoying is the center/dialogue level which is pretty low for my taste.

I think this might be related to my center placement as I had to run the center a good + 2.5 dB hotter on my previous processors as well.

Now I have the option to raise the trim under general settings, but in addition to that I have the option on the Marantz to adjust each channels volume from another options menu when running a movie.

Does anyone know what the difference is? The trims in both menus are not the same, so when running the Center at e.g. +6 db I still get the option to adjust another +12 db from the other options menu.

My problem right now is that not just the dialoge level seems to be pretty low, but there is a loss of detail as well when I have audyssey enabled unless I crank the center up.

Without Audyssey enabled all those details are there, but then the bass is lacking because the dynamic EQ is not enabled.

Before you try cranking up the center volume any more, you might want to trouble shoot your set-up and calibration a little more. Could you post a picture showing the location of your center? Experience has shown that if the center is pushed back too far on a shelf, or not pointed up (or down, depending) at listening height, there can be a loss of volume and/or clarity. Something like that may very well be the problem.

You could also try running additional calibrations, varying the mic. positions a little, in the hope that you will get a better result. If you do, be sure to keep a record of your mic. positions for your best calibration.

If neither of those options works, you can probably continue to adjust your center channel upward a little bit, without any harm. But regardless of where the adjustment is made, I believe your volume will max out at +12. I wouldn't feel comfortable running too much farther into the plus range, but that may just be me. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Mike
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post #75752 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 12:54 PM
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Thanks for the advice,

I am currently already using the flat setting, however I still have the feeling that there is a loss of detail from the center ( felt even worse with the reference settings).

Will tinker around with the dynamic EQ settings a bit to see if that makes a difference.

Undortunately I dont have a possibility to measure the room.

Just to give you a sample of what I am talking about: When Tony Starks HQ gets attacked by the Helicopters in Iron Man 3 there is this moment when the first missile hits and Stark calls the suit to protect Pepper. When the suit "lands" on pepper there are still pieces of stones etc. flying around and one hits her on the suit's chestpiece. Without Audyssey you can hear the impact of this stone on the suit...with Audyssey Flat/Reference this detail is lost, unless I increase center volume by 3 db or so.

I think I watched this part of the movie already a hundred times over the weekend to get the settings right.
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post #75753 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Before you try cranking up the center volume any more, you might want to trouble shoot your set-up and calibration a little more. Could you post a picture showing the location of your center? Experience has shown that if the center is pushed back too far on a shelf, or not pointed up (or down, depending) at listening height, there can be a loss of volume and/or clarity. Something like that may very well be the problem.

You could also try running additional calibrations, varying the mic. positions a little, in the hope that you will get a better result. If you do, be sure to keep a record of your mic. positions for your best calibration.

If neither of those options works, you can probably continue to adjust your center channel upward a little bit, without any harm. But regardless of where the adjustment is made, I believe your volume will max out at +12. I wouldn't feel comfortable running too much farther into the plus range, but that may just be me. I hope this helps.

Regards,
Mike
Hi Mike,

The center is located on a shelf and the front of the center ends exactly at the end of the shelf, so its not really pushed back.

However you are right that it is slightly above my listening position and not pointing down.

I considered this as problematic already, but as I am using active speakers the center is pretty heavy and I need to figure out a way how to raise it but preventing it from slipping down the shelf.

When adjusting the center channel I am running at +6 dB so there is still a bit of room until reaching the +12 db mark.

I am listening at way below reference level as well, so It should hopefully be fine.
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post #75754 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by REM Germany View Post
Thanks for the advice,

I am currently already using the flat setting, however I still have the feeling that there is a loss of detail from the center ( felt even worse with the reference settings).

Will tinker around with the dynamic EQ settings a bit to see if that makes a difference.

Undortunately I dont have a possibility to measure the room.

Just to give you a sample of what I am talking about: When Tony Starks HQ gets attacked by the Helicopters in Iron Man 3 there is this moment when the first missile hits and Stark calls the suit to protect Pepper. When the suit "lands" on pepper there are still pieces of stones etc. flying around and one hits her on the suit's chestpiece. Without Audyssey you can hear the impact of this stone on the suit...with Audyssey Flat/Reference this detail is lost, unless I increase center volume by 3 db or so.

I think I watched this part of the movie already a hundred times over the weekend to get the settings right.
When you increase the center channel by 3db, is that when you get to +6? If so, I don't see any harm in that. I was concerned that you needed to continue to increase even beyond +6, and I would start to worry about your speaker if you got too high. Again, I may be just a little cautious about that sort of thing.

I cross-posted with you there, so I will edit this. Try pulling your center forward so that it clears the edge of the shelf by an inch, or so. That should help. I understand the problem with trying to tilt the speaker forward, but even a fractional angle downward might also help. You could try putting a very thin shim of some sort under the back edge just as an experiment. I'm guessing that positioning is at least a part of the problem.

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post #75755 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 02:24 PM
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Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?
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post #75756 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 03:36 PM
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I think the biggest effect you'll see regarding that will be adjusting the subwoofer distance (in the setup menu) and/or its location.
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post #75757 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by zebidou81 View Post
Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?

I think Soulburner's right about bass response not being affected as much by mic. height. Nevertheless, I would try to keep the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3 positions. I suppose it's possible that you are in a null. Is this a new problem that just occurred from your last calibration? If it is, changing your mic. pattern could work. Try it with the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3. You can also try using a tighter (smaller) pattern. Have you done a sub crawl to test the relationship of your sub to your MLP?
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post #75758 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 09:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zebidou81 View Post
Im having issues with Audyssey xt32 and bass response, is there any mic positions that would give tighter bass ? It seems to be lacking since i ran with mic above sofa back to see rear surrounds, does it work best with just mic positions 7 & 8 a few inches higher and 1-6 at ear level ?
You could just substitute measurements 7 and 8 for 9 & 10 to keep everything at ear height. I don't believe you are supposed to raise the mic any more than 3 inches above ear height.

I wonder if position 7 & 8 is positioned in a null and after Audyssey averages, is calling for a boost? Then when you sit in your PLP you are out of the null, but the extra boost at that frequency is making it sound boomy.

Try giving position 9 n 10 a go keeping everything at ear height and the mic no closer than 12 inches to the back of the couch (regardless of PLP) unless you have a cloth couch or cover the couch with a blanket.

Also, if you are keeping the mic 12 inches from the back of the couch try only moving positions 4,5,and 6 only 12 inches out from 1,2, and 3 instead of 24 inches.

I hope this helps some.
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post #75759 of 75778 Old 05-25-2015, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
When you increase the center channel by 3db, is that when you get to +6? If so, I don't see any harm in that. I was concerned that you needed to continue to increase even beyond +6, and I would start to worry about your speaker if you got too high. Again, I may be just a little cautious about that sort of thing.

I cross-posted with you there, so I will edit this. Try pulling your center forward so that it clears the edge of the shelf by an inch, or so. That should help. I understand the problem with trying to tilt the speaker forward, but even a fractional angle downward might also help. You could try putting a very thin shim of some sort under the back edge just as an experiment. I'm guessing that positioning is at least a part of the problem.

Yes, +6 is the setting when I already increased the Center trim.


After Audyssey it is set to +2.5 if I remember correctly.


I will try out your advice with the shelf as well and rerun Audyssey.


Thanks!
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post #75760 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I think Soulburner's right about bass response not being affected as much by mic. height. Nevertheless, I would try to keep the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3 positions. I suppose it's possible that you are in a null. Is this a new problem that just occurred from your last calibration? If it is, changing your mic. pattern could work. Try it with the mic. height at ear level for all but 2 or 3. You can also try using a tighter (smaller) pattern. Have you done a sub crawl to test the relationship of your sub to your MLP?
I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ? i may turn up the sub levels as i have left trims for subs as set by Audyssey, i recently purchased some new rear surrounds and since then i have ran Audyssey again but as rear surrounds are higher than ear level and the back of my sofa is also higher than ear level, i placed the mic level with rear surrounds and above sofa back but this in turn is higher than my front L/R and L/R Surrounds and it seems to have given a poor Audyssey Calibration.

I Think the following is the right way forward please add if there is something i have missed =

1= I want the Calibration to be done where i sit exactly my head not moving the mic to a position in space that my head will not be when sat, as this puts the mic a few inches away from leather sofa back, i will cover the sofa back with a towel.

2= I will leave the mic at ear level for mic positions 1-6 slightly lower than sofa back and rear surrounds, but for mic positions 7-8 i shall raise mic positions a few inches so that rear surrounds are visible.

3= as the towel is on sofa back i can have the mic a few mm from sofa back and where my head will be, i can remove towel afterwards but how will this effect sound ?

4= If i am not happy with bass i shall turn subs up +2 db

5= try as Johnny mac suggests moving mic positions 12" instead of 24" and move mic positions 7+8 to 9+10 fill in the gaps if the above does not work

If i am missing something that will give me a better overall calibration and improved bass please fill in the gaps, Also is the Audyssey Pro kit worth the money for the extra results given ? thank you

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Last edited by zebidou81; Yesterday at 05:27 AM.
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post #75761 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 07:30 AM
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I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ? i may turn up the sub levels as i have left trims for subs as set by Audyssey, i recently purchased some new rear surrounds and since then i have ran Audyssey again but as rear surrounds are higher than ear level and the back of my sofa is also higher than ear level, i placed the mic level with rear surrounds and above sofa back but this in turn is higher than my front L/R and L/R Surrounds and it seems to have given a poor Audyssey Calibration.

I Think the following is the right way forward please add if there is something i have missed =

1= I want the Calibration to be done where i sit exactly my head not moving the mic to a position in space that my head will not be when sat, as this puts the mic a few inches away from leather sofa back, i will cover the sofa back with a towel.

2= I will leave the mic at ear level for mic positions 1-6 slightly lower than sofa back and rear surrounds, but for mic positions 7-8 i shall raise mic positions a few inches so that rear surrounds are visible.

3= as the towel is on sofa back i can have the mic a few mm from sofa back and where my head will be, i can remove towel afterwards but how will this effect sound ?

4= If i am not happy with bass i shall turn subs up +2 db

5= try as Johnny mac suggests moving mic positions 12" instead of 24" and move mic positions 7+8 to 9+10 fill in the gaps if the above does not work

If i am missing something that will give me a better overall calibration and improved bass please fill in the gaps, Also is the Audyssey Pro kit worth the money for the extra results given ? thank you

Hi,

In general, your strategy looks good to me. I will, though, try to address a few specific aspects of it. First, a lot of people like to turn their subs up a few decibels after running Audyssey, so adding 2-3db should be fine. Second, I do think you will get better results with most of your mic. positions, and particularly #1 , at ear level. Doing a couple of mic. positions 2"-3" higher works well for a lot of people, including myself. Third, removing the towel after calibration will not adversely affect the sound. I can explain this in detail, if necessary. Fourth, depending on how large a listening area you are trying to calibrate, tighter mic. positions can help to improve audio quality. So, using about 12" patterns, and filling in gaps with your final two positions, is a technique that works very well for me, but you will have to try it to find out whether it also suits your needs. For many of us, there is a certain amount of trial and error which goes into obtaining really satisfactory calibrations. Finally, I have never owned (or needed) the Pro Kit, but from reports from those on the thread who have owned it, I would judge that it probably is not worth the extra expenditure. I see it as more of a hobbyist tool, than as something really essential to achieve a good calibration result.

I think you are on the right track with your plan just as it is. Let us know how it works out.

Regards,
Mike
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post #75762 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 08:19 AM
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Hi,

In general, your strategy looks good to me. I will, though, try to address a few specific aspects of it. First, a lot of people like to turn their subs up a few decibels after running Audyssey, so adding 2-3db should be fine. Second, I do think you will get better results with most of your mic. positions, and particularly #1 , at ear level. Doing a couple of mic. positions 2"-3" higher works well for a lot of people, including myself. Third, removing the towel after calibration will not adversely affect the sound. I can explain this in detail, if necessary. Fourth, depending on how large a listening area you are trying to calibrate, tighter mic. positions can help to improve audio quality. So, using about 12" patterns, and filling in gaps with your final two positions, is a technique that works very well for me, but you will have to try it to find out whether it also suits your needs. For many of us, there is a certain amount of trial and error which goes into obtaining really satisfactory calibrations. Finally, I have never owned (or needed) the Pro Kit, but from reports from those on the thread who have owned it, I would judge that it probably is not worth the extra expenditure. I see it as more of a hobbyist tool, than as something really essential to achieve a good calibration result.

I think you are on the right track with your plan just as it is. Let us know how it works out.

Regards,
Mike
I shall run Audyssey again when i get chance and let you know the outcome, just out of curiosity could you tell me why it is that when the towel is removed there is no impact on the sound, as if the back of leather sofa interacts with and reflects sound and the towel absorbs the sound then surely when the towel is removed the sound waves will be bouncing off the leather and into my ears when seated also.

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post #75763 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 09:08 AM
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I shall run Audyssey again when i get chance and let you know the outcome, just out of curiosity could you tell me why it is that when the towel is removed there is no impact on the sound, as if the back of leather sofa interacts with and reflects sound and the towel absorbs the sound then surely when the towel is removed the sound waves will be bouncing off the leather and into my ears when seated also.

I was sort of hoping that you wouldn't ask, as the answer is a little complicated. On the other hand, this question comes up from time to time, so it's probably worthwhile to try to provide a comprehensive explanation. So, here's my take on it.

There are sound waves bouncing around your head (and off it) from the leather sofa back, from the ceiling, from the floor, etc. all the time. You simply don't pay much attention to those sound waves for several reasons. First, if they are very high frequency waves, and many of them are, they are short in wavelength (less than an inch) and transient in duration. Unless there are a lot of them grouped together, our hearing just isn't sensitive enough to notice them. Second, there are psycho-acoustic phenomena in play. We tend to pay the most attention to the first arriving sound (the Precedence Effect: see Haas), so the sound we really notice is coming from the general direction of the speaker(s) playing it. And our brains are actually quite adept at filtering out extraneous noise, as we do when we talk on the telephone, or work, or talk to someone in a crowded restaurant. So, those spurious sound waves bouncing off your sofa and into your ears are largely unnoticed by your hearing, and ignored by your brain.

Ideally, Audyssey, and particularly XT-32, should ignore them as well. What you don't want Audyssey to do is to try to be fussy in the upper frequencies. There are graphs in the Addendum to the FAQ which show the difference between XT trying to over-correct the upper frequencies, and XT-32, doing less up top. The philosophy between the two versions is different. XT-32 attempts to disregard minor deviations in the upper frequencies, and only deal with variations that span across let's say 50-100hz. It's very different at the low end, though, where Audyssey will try to detect and correct issues involving only a few hertz. But, when Audyssey attempts to make so many minor adjustments up high, the result can be a garbled, or harsh sound. So, we want to avoid creating a situation where Audyssey will try to over-adjust in the high frequency range.

The Audyssey microphone doesn't hear the way our ears do; it is far more sensitive. And it doesn't have a psycho-acoustic mechanism like our brain, which will allow it to disregard what it hears in quite the way we can. So, if the mic. gets too close to a hard surface during calibration, the short waves bouncing off the surface into the mic. will "spoof" Audyssey into trying to "fix" a problem that doesn't really exist. Due to the close proximity, the sound waves will seem more prominent, and problematical, than they really are. And in trying to correct for that non-existent problem, Audyssey will create a lot of unnecessary filters (hair) in the upper frequencies. That is called comb filtering due to it's shape, and it is a form of distortion which Audyssey can inadvertently introduce. That's why users are advised to keep the Audyssey microphone about 18" away from hard surfaces. But, trying to stay so far away may not present an ideal calibration, so people came up with the idea of temporarily using a blanket.

When you use a blanket, or towel, during calibration, you can position the mic. close to hard surfaces without worrying about spurious reflections "spoofing" Audyssey into over-correcting. And when you remove the blanket after calibration, you will go back to your normal situation in which the relatively lesser acuteness of your hearing, and the psycho-acoustic phenomena discussed earlier, will protect you from hearing (or noticing) the spurious reflections bouncing around you. A lot of us have tried it and found that to be the case. To summarize, this procedure of using a blanket during calibration has been endorsed by Chris K,. the inventor of Audyssey, and well established empirically by numerous members of the thread. It makes sense acoustically, and it works. Win, Win, as they say.

Regards,
Mike
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post #75764 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 12:00 PM
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I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ?
Not sure where you heard this, but it is not correct.

Sub placement with dual subs is possibly even more important than with a single sub. Depending on placement and phase settings, the subs may be cancelling each other out.

Below is my (very) basic setup for dual subs with Audyssey. Give it a go and report back.

This assumes you have identical subs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
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post #75765 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
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I shall run Audyssey again when i get chance and let you know the outcome, just out of curiosity could you tell me why it is that when the towel is removed there is no impact on the sound, as if the back of leather sofa interacts with and reflects sound and the towel absorbs the sound then surely when the towel is removed the sound waves will be bouncing off the leather and into my ears when seated also.

I was sort of hoping that you wouldn't ask, as the answer is a little complicated. On the other hand, this question comes up from time to time, so it's probably worthwhile to try to provide a comprehensive explanation. So, here's my take on it.

There are sound waves bouncing around your head (and off it) from the leather sofa back, from the ceiling, from the floor, etc. all the time. You simply don't pay much attention to those sound waves for several reasons. First, if they are very high frequency waves, and many of them are, they are short in wavelength (less than an inch) and transient in duration. Unless there are a lot of them grouped together, our hearing just isn't sensitive enough to notice them. Second, there are psycho-acoustic phenomena in play. We tend to pay the most attention to the first arriving sound (the Precedence Effect: see Haas), so the sound we really notice is coming from the general direction of the speaker(s) playing it. And our brains are actually quite adept at filtering out extraneous noise, as we do when we talk on the telephone, or work, or talk to someone in a crowded restaurant. So, those spurious sound waves bouncing off your sofa and into your ears are largely unnoticed by your hearing, and ignored by your brain.

Ideally, Audyssey, and particularly XT-32, should ignore them as well. What you don't want Audyssey to do is to try to be fussy in the upper frequencies. There are graphs in the Addendum to the FAQ which show the difference between XT trying to over-correct the upper frequencies, and XT-32, doing less up top. The philosophy between the two versions is different. XT-32 attempts to disregard minor deviations in the upper frequencies, and only deal with variations that span across let's say 50-100hz. It's very different at the low end, though, where Audyssey will try to detect and correct issues involving only a few hertz. But, when Audyssey attempts to make so many minor adjustments up high, the result can be a garbled, or harsh sound. So, we want to avoid creating a situation where Audyssey will try to over-adjust in the high frequency range.

The Audyssey microphone doesn't hear the way our ears do; it is far more sensitive. And it doesn't have a psycho-acoustic mechanism like our brain, which will allow it to disregard what it hears in quite the way we can. So, if the mic. gets too close to a hard surface during calibration, the short waves bouncing off the surface into the mic. will "spoof" Audyssey into trying to "fix" a problem that doesn't really exist. Due to the close proximity, the sound waves will seem more prominent, and problematical, than they really are. And in trying to correct for that non-existent problem, Audyssey will create a lot of unnecessary filters (hair) in the upper frequencies. That is called comb filtering due to it's shape, and it is a form of distortion which Audyssey can inadvertently introduce. That's why users are advised to keep the Audyssey microphone about 18" away from hard surfaces. But, trying to stay so far away may not present an ideal calibration, so people came up with the idea of temporarily using a blanket.

When you use a blanket, or towel, during calibration, you can position the mic. close to hard surfaces without worrying about spurious reflections "spoofing" Audyssey into over-correcting. And when you remove the blanket after calibration, you will go back to your normal situation in which the relatively lesser acuteness of your hearing, and the psycho-acoustic phenomena discussed earlier, will protect you from hearing (or noticing) the spurious reflections bouncing around you. A lot of us have tried it and found that to be the case. To summarize, this procedure of using a blanket during calibration has been endorsed by Chris K,. the inventor of Audyssey, and well established empirically by numerous members of the thread. It makes sense acoustically, and it works. Win, Win, as they say.

Regards,
Mike
Thank you for your very clearly defined detailed explanation, and i agree it makes sense i shall use a blanket for any future Audyssey calibrations that i do and it solves the problem of worrying as in my case (i do) that the mic is not where i am, and the mic is to close to the sofa and that the calibration is not as it should be, but now you have guided me in the right direction once i have calibrated covering the back of sofa and taking the reflection of it out of the loop it will be a win win situation for me.
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post #75766 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 02:48 PM
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I run 2 subs so i have 1 at front and 1 at rear behind sofa, i have not done the sub crawl but i thought with 2 subs this is not necessary ?
Not sure where you heard this, but it is not correct.

Sub placement with dual subs is possibly even more important than with a single sub. Depending on placement and phase settings, the subs may be cancelling each other out.

Below is my (very) basic setup for dual subs with Audyssey. Give it a go and report back.

This assumes you have identical subs.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!
This is a good method i shall try to get the best bass i will do this when i am going to run audyssey thanks
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Alternatively, you could put your sub on wheels and move it around the room with the mic in your LP. I'm going to try this, with REW and real time analysis and see if I can speed up the process and get results better than my ears alone could.
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Requesting advice about sub distance tweak.
Following is the REW measurement with Audyssey On DEQ off for distance tweak reference.
I see that it is already flat at cross over freq (80 Hz). Was wondering if I will gain anything by distance tweak.
Appreciate any recommendations.
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post #75769 of 75778 Old Yesterday, 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Requesting advice about sub distance tweak.
Following is the REW measurement with Audyssey On DEQ off for distance tweak reference.
I see that it is already flat at cross over freq (80 Hz). Was wondering if I will gain anything by distance tweak.
Appreciate any recommendations.
Nothing is a substitute for experimentation. Try the tweak. If you see improvement, good. If not, return the distances to what they were. Our speculation means nothing.
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Nothing is a substitute for experimentation. Try the tweak. If you see improvement, good. If not, return the distances to what they were. Our speculation means nothing.
Will do.
So I should make sure that the center+sub response remains flat at and around 80Hz and increases in dB to indicate the improvement. Right?
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Will do.
So I should make sure that the center+sub response remains flat at and around 80Hz and increases in dB to indicate the improvement. Right?
Tweak the distance. Measure the result. Note any changes in the response and use your best judgement as to whether the change is a positive one. Conduct a listening test. There is no formula for what is better and what isn't.
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Tweak the distance. Measure the result. Note any changes in the response and use your best judgement as to whether the change is a positive one. Conduct a listening test. There is no formula for what is better and what isn't.
Ah. Okay. Thanks.
So the response alone may not tell the whole story. Thanks for that listening tip.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Requesting advice about sub distance tweak.
Following is the REW measurement with Audyssey On DEQ off for distance tweak reference.
I see that it is already flat at cross over freq (80 Hz). Was wondering if I will gain anything by distance tweak.
Appreciate any recommendations.
I'm confused. The graph labeled C+Sub most definitely has a large (deep but not wide) dip at ~110hz.

Is this a CH3+CH4 measurement? If so, don't do that.

I'm assuming the one labeled Center is CH3 only with bass management, correct? If so, it's looking good but I would still experiment like Jerry said.



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I'm confused. The graph labeled C+Sub most definitely has a large (deep but not wide) dip at ~110hz.
Yes. Should the efforts be made to fix it? And what that would be? I tried to play with distance setting last night and managed to minimize it a bit.

Quote:
Is this a CH3+CH4 measurement? If so, don't do that.
If you mean the outputs used in the preferences, then yes. I used #3 (Center) and #4 (Sub). My HDMI has 7.1 Multi Channle output and followed the guideline from REW document.
If I should not use it that way, what is the method to get the Center+Sub response?

Quote:
I'm assuming the one labeled Center is CH3 only with bass management, correct? If so, it's looking good but I would still experiment like Jerry said.
All these responses are with Audyssey=Reference and DEQ=Off (and DVOL=Off as always).


Quote:

Thanks Alan for your inputs. Please advice the best course of action based on the answers to your questions above.
I was always taking the center+sub response measurement after every distance change. If that is incorrect, please suggest as appropriate.
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If you mean the outputs used in the preferences, then yes. I used #3 (Center) and #4 (Sub). My HDMI has 7.1 Multi Channle output and followed the guideline from REW document.
If I should not use it that way, what is the method to get the Center+Sub response?

Sorry, that is not what the guide says. If you want to measure center+subs, then you should set the center to "small", and output the REW signal to the center channel only. Bass management routes frequencies below the crossover to the sub. You should not be selecting HDMI4.
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Sorry, that is not what the guide says. If you want to measure center+subs, then you should set the center to "small", and output the REW signal to the center channel only. Bass management routes frequencies below the crossover to the sub. You should not be selecting HDMI4.
Thanks Jerry for that clarification. (Sorry I had bit of confusion).
So here's what I will do, please let me know if anything is not right.

1. For center only , use HDMI#3 (With subwoffer powered off)
2. For sub only, use HDMI#4 (With center disconnected)
3. For combined center+sub, use HDMI#3 (With sub powered on and center connected).
(The second "timing reference output" stays deselcted in all the above situations)

I will do this tonight and see how that goes..
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks Jerry for that clarification. (Sorry I had bit of confusion).
So here's what I will do, please let me know if anything is not right.

1. For center only , use HDMI#3 (With subwoffer powered off)
2. For sub only, use HDMI#4 (With center disconnected)
3. For combined center+sub, use HDMI#3 (With sub powered on and center connected).
(The second "timing reference output" stays deselcted in all the above situations)

I will do this tonight and see how that goes..
You can use HDMI3 for all three measurements. Note that if you do use HDMI4, the output should be 10dB higher (LFE gain), but the shape of the measurement will still be the same.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks Alan for your inputs. Please advice the best course of action based on the answers to your questions above.
I was always taking the center+sub response measurement after every distance change. If that is incorrect, please suggest as appropriate.

Jerry has of course given you the answers you need.

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