"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2528 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #75811 of 75822 Old Today, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
Blind Faith....
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post #75812 of 75822 Old Today, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
Just purchased 2 Paradigm Monitor SUB 12's. I have the PBK kit as well but was waiting to break the subs in before performing the calibration
Paradigm Monitor subs have the previously mentioned SUB IN/LFE IN (L) jack. Try to use that input with your initial setup and then run MultEQ without the PBK kit and see how it sounds to your ears. Report back, please.
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post #75813 of 75822 Old Today, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Chris K. in post # 22593:


"The analog phase control knob on the back of the sub is basically, well... useless. It only operates on one frequency and often will cause more harm than good by introducing group delay. I highly recommend leaving it at 0.

The problem of summing two subs is a complex one. What we found is that it is best to first time align them either by digital delay or by placing them at the same distance from the listening position. Then, you need to level align them. After that, the best results are obtained by summing the two subs and creating a single room correction filter for the time- and level-aligned combination.


If it's not possible to place the subs at the same distance, then just feed them with a y-cord from the AVR subwoofer output and let MultEQ try to correct the anomalies due to phase (time) and the room."

Alan ain't gonna like this!

I actually completely agree with Chris K's quote with the exception of what I bolded.

However, in real-world situations, placing multiple subs equidistant to the MLP is just not possible and not everyone has time correction ability, soooo.....we must resort to using the phase control.


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Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
So what is the general recommendation for the phase setting with running 2 subs? Still set to zero or is there some other method for tweeking?
What AVR do you have? Does it have the ability to set distance for two subs (i.e. Audyssey XT32 w/SubEQ HT)?

If not, have you considered acquiring an outboard box to properly time-align the subwoofers (i.e. MiniDSP)?

If none of the above and your subwoofers are going to be differing distances from the MLP - while playing your AVRs pink noise sub cal tone, adjust the phase control on one of the subs until you get the highest SPL at the MLP. This is the best you can do without proper time-alignment (IMO).


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
Blind Faith....

Love me some Blind Faith.


AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #75814 of 75822 Old Today, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
However, in real-world situations, placing multiple subs equidistant to the MLP is just not possible and not everyone has time correction ability, soooo.....we must resort to using the phase control.
But, but, but, Alan...you agreed with the un-bolded parts of Chris saying:

"The analog phase control knob on the back of the sub is basically, well... useless. It only operates on one frequency and often will cause more harm than good by introducing group delay. I highly recommend leaving it at 0."

"Group delay" is supposed to be the key-word here, doesn't it?

Quote:
If none of the above and your subwoofers are going to be differing distances from the MLP - while playing your AVRs pink noise sub cal tone, adjust the phase control on one of the subs until you get the highest SPL at the MLP. This is the best you can do without proper time-alignment (IMO).
Nothing wrong with that approach as long as the ears of the listener are satisfied/pleased. Though a bit far from what we call reference, or in another term: "intended use".

Enjoy!
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post #75815 of 75822 Unread Today, 03:03 PM
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Cable break-in... :)

From http://www.morrowaudio.com/ :

http://www.morrowaudio.com/breakin_2.html

Quote

"CABLE BREAK-IN


Our cables require a total of 400 to 500 hours to completely break in. If you ordered our 2 day cable break-in service, your cables will arrive with the equivalent of 96 hours on them. If you ordered the extended 5 day breakin, the equivalent of 240 hours will be on them."

Unquote

I wonder how much they charge for sucha neat service? BTW, me thinks 2 days are 48 hours not 96, and 5 day are 120 hours not 240, but who knows?

Friday humor, eh?

Last edited by mogorf; Today at 03:09 PM.
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post #75816 of 75822 Unread Today, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
But, but, but, Alan...you agreed with the un-bolded parts of Chris saying:

"The analog phase control knob on the back of the sub is basically, well... useless. It only operates on one frequency and often will cause more harm than good by introducing group delay. I highly recommend leaving it at 0."

"Group delay" is supposed to be the key-word here, doesn't it?

Nothing wrong with that approach as long as the ears of the listener are satisfied/pleased. Though a bit far from what we call reference, or in another term: "intended use".

Enjoy!
Well, all I can say that in MY room with MY (old) subs, using the phase control to get the subs "in-phase" helped my overall frequency response. When they were out-of-phase there was a lot of cancellation going on.

Of course, after I got a MiniDSP (and later, SubEQ HT) everything got slightly better, but by using the phase knob it was markedly better than when the subs were completely out-of-phase.

FYI, this was with one sub 15' from MLP and the other only 3' from the MLP.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #75817 of 75822 Unread Today, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I actually completely agree with Chris K's quote with the exception of what I bolded.

However, in real-world situations, placing multiple subs equidistant to the MLP is just not possible and not everyone has time correction ability, soooo.....we must resort to using the phase control.




What AVR do you have? Does it have the ability to set distance for two subs (i.e. Audyssey XT32 w/SubEQ HT)?

If not, have you considered acquiring an outboard box to properly time-align the subwoofers (i.e. MiniDSP)?

If none of the above and your subwoofers are going to be differing distances from the MLP - while playing your AVRs pink noise sub cal tone, adjust the phase control on one of the subs until you get the highest SPL at the MLP. This is the best you can do without proper time-alignment (IMO).





Love me some Blind Faith.

Denon avr 2313ci
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post #75818 of 75822 Unread Today, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Dbruce13 View Post
Denon avr 2313ci
Well, you answered one of the two questions.

That is the AVR I had before the 4520. If you don't plan on buying some sort of box to properly time align the subs, upgrade to XT32 or place the subs equidistant to the MLP...the phase knob is all you got.


FWIW, here's my (very) basic setup procedure for dual subs with and Audyssey AVR. This assumes you have two identical subs:

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Set the gain on both subs to the same level - around 12:00-2:00 on the gain knob is a good starting point (just a starting point, gain structure can vary greatly from one manufacturer to another). Set phase to "0" on both subs for now.

1. Connect sub #1 only and place it at the MLP
2. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #1
3. Place sub #1 in that position
4. Connect both subs and place sub #2 at the MLP (with sub #1 playing as well)
5. Do the sub crawl to determine the best position for sub #2
6. Place sub #2 in that position
7. Playing the AVRs test tone, adjust phase on one of the subs until you get the maximum SPL at the MLP (could be variable or a simple 0/180 switch) (if you have SubEQ HT, skip this step)
8. Run Audyssey, first mic position only, and "calculate"
9. Look to see where Audyssey has set your sub trim, you want it to be around -6db to -8db ideally
10. Adjust the gain on both subs by the same amount up or down as needed
11. Repeat 8-10 until you get the sub trim around -6db to -8db
12. Run the full Audyssey calibration
13. Set all speakers to "small"
14. Set all crossovers to 80hz (or, if set higher than 80hz by Audyssey, leave them alone)
15. Bump up the sub trim by 3db to 6db to your preference
16. Enjoy!

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #75819 of 75822 Unread Today, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, all I can say that in MY room with MY (old) subs, using the phase control to get the subs "in-phase" helped my overall frequency response. When they were out-of-phase there was a lot of cancellation going on.

Of course, after I got a MiniDSP (and later, SubEQ HT) everything got slightly better, but by using the phase knob it was markedly better than when the subs were completely out-of-phase.

FYI, this was with one sub 15' from MLP and the other only 3' from the MLP.
Cute, not really technical or scientific Alan, but cute. Enjoy your system to the brim. Never mind that the phase control on the back side of the subwoofer works only at one frequency (which we usually don't know which one that frequency is supposed to be!)

Still not sure how the subwoofers' phase control that works for one frequency only can work equally on the overall frequency response and how it is supposed to do justice when "out-of-phase" resulted in a lot of cancellations. Cancellations of what?

Nonetheless, most important is that in your room with your (old) subs it worked for you!!!

Enjoy!
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post #75820 of 75822 Unread Today, 04:04 PM
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All I can tell you Feri is I saw it with my own eyes (in REW) and heard it with my own ears.

I can't help but notice you only have one sub.

Just sayin'.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
--------------------------------------------------
Getting Started with REW
Audyssey 101
Audyssey FAQ
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post #75821 of 75822 Unread Today, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
All I can tell you Feri is I saw it with my own eyes (in REW) and heard it with my own ears.

I can't help but notice you only have one sub.

Just sayin'.
As I said: enjoy! Your ears are the boss!
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post #75822 of 75822 Unread Today, 05:47 PM
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I thought the wife was the boss? Now I'm confused
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