"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2544 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #76291 of 76314 Old 07-03-2015, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Sounds like a good plan to me.

I use Audyssey Flat for most movies, with the Bass and Treble Controls set to simulate the Harmon curve, or with the Treble Control set for flat, with no DEQ, with the main volume control set at about 5 dB below Reference, depending on the movie, generally using dialog SPL (by ear) as an indicator.

For music discs it's a crap shoot. I start at Audyssey Flat, with Bass @ +6, then vary the balance by ear, until it sounds both good and fairly real.
Sounds like we have a similar approach. Interesting that you also listen at about 5db below reference for your movies. I find that to be the sweet spot also..... any louder and it's blowing me out of the room.............. and I like loud
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post #76292 of 76314 Old 07-03-2015, 09:57 PM
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Originally Posted by garygarrison View Post
Sounds like a good plan to me.

I use Audyssey Flat for most movies, with the Bass and Treble Controls set to simulate the Harmon curve, or with the Treble Control set for flat, with no DEQ, with the main volume control set at about 5 dB below Reference, depending on the movie, generally using dialog SPL (by ear) as an indicator.

For music discs it's a crap shoot. I start at Audyssey Flat, with Bass @ +6, then vary the balance by ear, until it sounds both good and fairly real.

Gary this sounds like a good idea using flat and the tone controls if you like it, Ive done the same in the past but:
Using flat you don't get the top end roll off like you do on reference.Using the tone controls to adjust treble wont give it to you either for the roll off of the top end as it covers way more than just that end.


Mind you you are good to go if you don't find you need the top end roll off with your speakers... I have horns so do need the roll off, hence stick to Ref for movies.

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post #76293 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 09:15 AM
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hello guys i just did my first calibration in my denon avr 2100w i have one problem!when i check the results my speakers are set to large and i cant change them to small when i click it and then go back the are large again
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post #76294 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 10:16 AM
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hello guys i just did my first calibration in my denon avr 2100w i have one problem!when i check the results my speakers are set to large and i cant change them to small when i click it and then go back the are large again
The Audyssey menu just shows a report card of what it measured. Go to the Manual speaker setup menu where the active settings are.
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post #76295 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 11:09 AM
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Gary this sounds like a good idea using flat and the tone controls if you like it, Ive done the same in the past but:
Using flat you don't get the top end roll off like you do on reference.Using the tone controls to adjust treble wont give it to you either for the roll off of the top end as it covers way more than just that end.


Mind you you are good to go if you don't find you need the top end roll off with your speakers... I have horns so do need the roll off, hence stick to Ref for movies.

We are all so different in what works best for our systems. Flat with the tone controls works a charm for my system, because the tone controls only affect my front speakers, which are the ones that need it. The other speakers in my system sound perfect with Flat, whereas Reference would flatten the top end on all my speakers. It's a quite audible difference for me with music.

DEQ, on the other hand is much more program driven for me. I don't like to listen quite as loud as some of the other people who have commented. -15 is about as loud as I like to go. DEQ doesn't help me much with sporting events, for instance. Too much crowd noise can actually drown out the announcers, although maybe that's not always a bad thing. But with action movies, and something like Game of Thrones, I really enjoy the bass boost, and the surround boost. I wouldn't want the surround boost at all for music, but I like it a lot for some of the more dynamic viewing. Lot's of room for individual preferences in a modern Audyssey-enabled AVR.
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post #76296 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 01:19 PM
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Here's some' interesting about Audyssey Auto EQ system and its implementation with some audio manufacturers:

- In products from Denon/Marantz, NAD, Onkyo/Integra of the past, there is the option to use a manual EQ...the graphic type.
- Yamaha and Pioneer products don't have Audyssey, they have their own proprietary EQ systems, but you can manually adjust them with the parametric EQ.
- If you want say the Harman/Kardon reference curve, then you have the best closer chance to get it with a parametric EQ.

Are those products using Audyssey not having enough processing power to include a parametric EQ? ...Well, Onkyo/Integra abandonned Audyssey all together for a less demanding processing power EQ system with AccuEQ and retains a manual graphic EQ. ...All together they saved money now by having less DSP power (one less chip). ...NAD, I'm not sure...I just don't follow them close anymore. ...Denon/Marantz added more DSP power (one added chip) while retaining Audyssey Auto EQ system, but also retaining their manual graphic EQ.

It's like a compromise that every audio manufacturer has to make.

In the higher audio end, you have less compromises, but also less money in the banking system.

And today, you have new ball games like Dirac Live, but also more complicated for the people who normally purchase an AV receiver...the majority simply doesn't want to take the time to master it...they want a simple auto EQ system like AccuEQ, for example. ...Quick and easy.

And of course some inexpensive pre/pros and multichannel power amps from Emotiva, as an alternative, ...parametric EQ, and now with integrated Dirac Live.

There are no "perfect" audio product for all people, but only the compromises we are making/accepting.

Audyssey is the largest thread ever here @ AVS, and the day that Denon/Marantz abandon it all together the thread will remain alive for still few years.

This is only my own personal opinion...some observation. Fell free to share your own.
* If anyone can provide info regarding Audyssey inside the 2015 NAD products, that would be cool, plus their own custom Audyssey curve.
...To see if NAD approximate the "Harmon" reference target curve.

<<♦>> My own prediction: We are going to see products with new Room EQ systems (eg.; Quantum Logic), with that "Harmon" reference target curve in our own own rooms @ home. And Dirac Live has plenty of room to expand.

I remember back in 2004; Audyssey was a baby...today, more than ten years later it has reached a plateau with XT32 and eleven channels of equalization. ...For Audyssey DSX, DTS Neo:X, Dolby Atmos, Auro-3D, and DTS:X. ...Plus all their derivatives...audio processing and up-mixing.

It is also interesting to note that only Yamaha retained Dolby ProLogic IIx and IIz with their new Dolby Atmos AV receivers, in addition to Dolby Surround.
It will be interesting to see about DTS Neo:X in Denon/Marantz products soon. ...Now with DTS Neural:X.

And it's too bad about Audyssey no more improving their EQ system, for example to give the freedom to adjust manually the target curves and save them. ...Like that "Harman" curve for example...one for Music and another for Movies.
Then you can see that Dirac Live and manual parametric EQs are going to replace Audyssey for good @ one point in time...and perhaps nearer than what we think. ...But an Auto EQ system is what sells with the masses...for simplicity; it is in the overall implementation that that it is becoming more important today...with manual flexibility attached to it. ...More DSP chips, and clear instructions. ...Nowadays processing power is like RMS watts; it don't cost that much.

Alright; I've been using Audyssey for about ten years...I won't be using it for the next ten.
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post #76297 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 03:16 PM
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...Denon/Marantz added more DSP power (one added chip) while retaining Audyssey Auto EQ system, but also retaining their manual graphic EQ.
At least my Marantz pre-pro (AV7005, 2011) does not allow operation with Audyssey and manual graphic EQ engaged at the same time. Maybe newer Marantz models do, in which case, I'm pissed. It's impossible to have the Audyssey indicator light on at the same time as the graphic EQ is being used. A dealer (who was misinformed) thought that a way around this would be to run "base copy" (not "bass copy") to copy the Audyssey derived room correction curve, then use the graphics to fine tune. But "base copy" doesn't really "copy" the Audyssey correction -- it just provides a very crude approximation based on a few octave centers (9?), ignoring most of the hundreds of correction points used by Audyssey. In general, I would expect Audyssey to do a better job than any graphic or parametric equalizer, because of there being hundreds of points, as heard from 8 mic positions, rather than about 36 points, usually with 1 mic position, with a really good equalizer. I concur with the many posters who have observed that Audyssey tends to sound bass-shy, for all the acoustical & psycho-acoustical reasons they have given over the years.

What my Marantz will allow me to do, is use the Bass and Treble controls with Audyssey -- it just won't allow the graphic virtual sliders. I have the Bass control (after Audyssey calibration) anywhere between flat and +6, depending on the program material, and treble often at flat. I also turn up the subwoofer by several dB (after Audyssey), but, with a crossover of 80 Hz, that alone doesn't help much at 100 to 200 Hz where most program material needs it, thus the Bass control.

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post #76298 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 04:14 PM
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No no, I didn't say that, ever...please read my post carefully and don't misinterpret anything.

I didn't say that you can use both Audyssey EQ and the manual graphic EQ @ the same time. ...We all know that Audyssey doesn't allow that, and still today. I'm not talking about Pro Audyssey here, but about Audyssey.

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post #76299 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 04:23 PM
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Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning initial sub levels prior to Audyssey calibration. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I'm not so sure. My understanding is that, regardless of the initial sub SPL level, Audyssey would reset it to where it wanted anyway, so what is the importance of the 75dB recommendation? Would the final AVR setting vary based on the initial sub level? What about the sats (which should be balanced relative to the sub)? Thanks!

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post #76300 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Vader424242 View Post
Hi all,

I have a quick question concerning initial sub levels prior to Audyssey calibration. I thought I had a handle on it, but now I'm not so sure. My understanding is that, regardless of the initial sub SPL level, Audyssey would reset it to where it wanted anyway, so what is the importance of the 75dB recommendation? Would the final AVR setting vary based on the initial sub level? What about the sats (which should be balanced relative to the sub)? Thanks!
The typical AVR with Audyssey can adjust channel trims by +12dB to -12DB. If your starting sub level is too high or too low, Audyssey may not have room to make the necessary correction, given the limitations. Also, even if the resulting Audyssey correction is within the +/- 12dB range, if it is close to one limit or the other, then that limits the manual post-calibration adjustments you might want to make to achieve your bass preference.

So, ideally your post-calibration sub trim would be close to zero. However, it is generally accepted that a value of +/- 3 is "close enough" to give you some degrees of freedom to adjust to taste.
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post #76301 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 10:52 PM
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No no, I didn't say that, ever...please read my post carefully and don't misinterpret anything.

I didn't say that you can use both Audyssey EQ and the manual graphic EQ @ the same time. ...We all know that Audyssey doesn't allow that, and still today. I'm not talking about Pro Audyssey here, but about Audyssey.
I didn't say that you said that one can use Audyssey EQ and the manual graphic EQ at the same time.. I was just adding the information, for clarity, that while the Marantz AV7005 had both Audyssey EQ an manual graphic EQ, that they couldn't be used at the same time. I was hoping that I hadn't missed out on being able to use them together because I bought early. Thanks for letting me know that this wasn't the case. It was bad enough missing out on XT32.
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post #76302 of 76314 Old 07-04-2015, 11:05 PM
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Oh I see. ...And no, you didn't miss on anything.
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Does XT32 make up for and trump overall amp SQ? An example would be would the Denon X4000 equalize enough to sound more "musical" than something like the Cambridge Audio Azur 551r? I think amp to amp, without room correction, no one would say the CA doesn't sound better. But would XT32 make up for this in a less than ideal room in just a 2.1 stereo setup?
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Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
Does XT32 make up for and trump overall amp SQ? An example would be would the Denon X4000 equalize enough to sound more "musical" than something like the Cambridge Audio Azur 551r? I think amp to amp, without room correction, no one would say the CA doesn't sound better. But would XT32 make up for this in a less than ideal room in just a 2.1 stereo setup?
Well before addressing that, consider that many people don't think amps differ much in sound quality, even after double blind testing.

So if you're thinking the X4000 would sound crappy without room correction compared to a high dollar amp, it's likely to sound about the same as any other. So my answer is yes, XT32 is worth far more to your sound.
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post #76305 of 76314 Unread Today, 10:41 AM
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Well before addressing that, consider that many people don't think amps differ much in sound quality, even after double blind testing.

So if you're thinking the X4000 would sound crappy without room correction compared to a high dollar amp, it's likely to sound about the same as any other. So my answer is yes, XT32 is worth far more to your sound.
Well I just read in an X4000 thread on another forum that a user went from a 3312 to the X4000, the AVR being the only change, and he was not happy with the X4000 compared to the 3312. He said he though his sub sounded better with the X32 EQ, but that his speakers now sounded unpleasantly bright.

I'm going to run a quick test in my living room to see if I can tell the difference. I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5 mains. They are currently running on a Marantz SR6004. I'm going to pull my Yamaha RX-V1700 (that I've always felt was brighter than the Marantz) out of the bedroom setup and try to A/B the two receivers. I've never done this before. The RF-5's have two sets of binding posts on the back. If I run one pair of speaker wires to from the Marantz to the top posts and another pair of wires from the Yamaha to the bottom posts, would this be the correct way to A/B? Both pairs of speaker cables are the same. I'll run them both in pure direct mode. Source will be iTunes Store - downloaded music from my iPhone6 plugged into the units via a headphone to RCA cable.

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post #76306 of 76314 Unread Today, 11:27 AM
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Well I just read in an X4000 thread on another forum that a user went from a 3312 to the X4000, the AVR being the only change, and he was not happy with the X4000 compared to the 3312. He said he though his sub sounded better with the X32 EQ, but that his speakers now sounded unpleasantly bright.

I'm going to run a quick test in my living room to see if I can tell the difference. I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5 mains. They are currently running on a Marantz SR6004. I'm going to pull my Yamaha RX-V1700 (that I've always felt was brighter than the Marantz) out of the bedroom setup and try to A/B the two receivers. I've never done this before. The RF-5's have two sets of binding posts on the back. If I run one pair of speaker wires to from the Marantz to the top posts and another pair of wires from the Yamaha to the bottom posts, would this be the correct way to A/B? Both pairs of speaker cables are the same. I'll run them both in pure direct mode. Source will be iTunes Store - downloaded music from my iPhone6 plugged into the units via a headphone to RCA cable.

Some people believe that they can tell a difference in amplifiers and some can't. I don't have a problem with either point of view. Regardless of real or imagined amplifier differences, however, it is pretty hard to argue with the tangible benefits of room treatment and room correction. Most systems, in most rooms, will benefit from room correction software, and the greatest benefit is likely to occur in the bass frequencies, just as it did for the poster you mentioned. As for whether XT-32 made his speakers sound unpleasantly bright, that is another question. I don't believe that Audyssey is a simple set and forget technology. It can take a fair bit of effort, and some practice, to get Audyssey dialed in properly. And even after achieving a good calibration, there is quite a bit of user tweaking that can be done to further improve, or personalize, the sound. For instance, at one point, XT-32 also seemed to be exaggerating the brightness of my speakers, but I worked with my set-up and calibration technique until it wasn't happening anymore. I think a lot of us have found that Audyssey can seem to magnify set-up or calibration errors.

The bottom line for me on this is that everyone drives a car, but not everyone drives one equally well. It takes some effort and some practice. And the same thing applies to Audyssey. For a lot of us, we get out of Audyssey what we are willing to put into it. I wasn't willing to accept a result of Audyssey brightening my speakers inappropriately, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to accept it either. So, in the end you will have to use your own judgment on this, but having had room correction for a while now, it's pretty hard for me to see it as anything but a positive. I hope this helps a little.

Regards,
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post #76307 of 76314 Unread Today, 11:43 AM
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Some people believe that they can tell a difference in amplifiers and some can't. I don't have a problem with either point of view. Regardless of real or imagined amplifier differences, however, it is pretty hard to argue with the tangible benefits of room treatment and room correction. Most systems, in most rooms, will benefit from room correction software, and the greatest benefit is likely to occur in the bass frequencies, just as it did for the poster you mentioned. As for whether XT-32 made his speakers sound unpleasantly bright, that is another question. I don't believe that Audyssey is a simple set and forget technology. It can take a fair bit of effort, and some practice, to get Audyssey dialed in properly. And even after achieving a good calibration, there is quite a bit of user tweaking that can be done to further improve, or personalize, the sound. For instance, at one point, XT-32 also seemed to be exaggerating the brightness of my speakers, but I worked with my set-up and calibration technique until it wasn't happening anymore. I think a lot of us have found that Audyssey can seem to magnify set-up or calibration errors.

The bottom line for me on this is that everyone drives a car, but not everyone drives one equally well. It takes some effort and some practice. And the same thing applies to Audyssey. For a lot of us, we get out of Audyssey what we are willing to put into it. I wasn't willing to accept a result of Audyssey brightening my speakers inappropriately, and I wouldn't advise anyone else to accept it either. So, in the end you will have to use your own judgment on this, but having had room correction for a while now, it's pretty hard for me to see it as anything but a positive. I hope this helps a little.

Regards,
Mike
Oh I wasn't suggesting the Audyssey was responsible for the "brightening" of his speakers. I was suggesting that the signature sound of the newer Denon was brighter than his older Denon, and that the XT32 was not able to overcome this aspect - the room correction didn't make up for the fact that his speakers now sounded too bright and made some things unpleasant to listen to that weren't previously. I'm no sound engineer and nowhere near as knowledgeable as most on here (which is why I'm here), but it seems to me that all the room correction in the world wouldn't change the signature sound of a particular amp. If the X4000 is noticeably brighter than older models, it may not be the right choice for me, even with XT32, as the Klipsch RF5's are already a fairly bright speaker. (Can XT32 overcome this?) Maybe some people don't believe there is a sound difference one amp to the next, but my opinion, based on the several AVR's I've owned, is that there is. Then again, my opinion comes from memory after swapping in a new AVR. I've never done back to back testing in my own living room, which is what I'd like to do this afternoon. Is my proposed setup in my post above the right way to A/B the two receivers?

I don't know if I'd be able to hear a big difference in audio when watching a movie, but with music I'm positive I could, at least with the ones I've owned. And maybe it's the kind of music, I don't know. I listen to a lot of metal, and I've had setups that were just too much with the fast electric guitars and hi-hat cymbals.

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Oh I wasn't suggesting the Audyssey was responsible for the "brightening" of his speakers. I was suggesting that the signature sound of the newer Denon was brighter than his older Denon, and that the XT32 was not able to overcome this aspect - the room correction didn't make up for the fact that his speakers now sounded too bright and made some things unpleasant to listen to that weren't previously. I'm no sound engineer and nowhere near as knowledgeable as most on here (which is why I'm here), but it seems to me that all the room correction in the world wouldn't change the signature sound of a particular amp. If the X4000 is noticeably brighter than older models, it may not be the right choice for me, even with XT32, as the Klipsch RF5's are already a fairly bright speaker. (Can XT32 overcome this?) Maybe some people don't believe there is a sound difference one amp to the next, but my opinion, based on the several AVR's I've owned, is that there is. Then again, my opinion comes from memory after swapping in a new AVR. I've never done back to back testing in my own living room, which is what I'd like to do this afternoon. Is my proposed setup in my post above the right way to A/B the two receivers?

I don't know if I'd be able to hear a big difference in audio when watching a movie, but with music I'm positive I could, at least with the ones I've owned. And maybe it's the kind of music, I don't know. I listen to a lot of metal, and I've had setups that were just too much with the fast electric guitars and hi-hat cymbals.

I have had amps that I felt sounded different too, but with all due respect to the other poster, it is hard for me to believe that a newer Denon amp made that much difference with respect to the sound. I had a high-end Rotel separates system once that sounded a little clinical compared to the Marantz sound I was used to. But that was pretty subtle. High frequency boosting doesn't sound like a subtle thing to me. I would still suspect an issue with the set-up, microphone, calibration, or settings.

If you are concerned, try to buy from a source where an exchange is possible, and try the Denon for yourself. Or try a comparable Marantz with XT-32. Many do believe, rightly or wrongly, that Marantz amps have a slightly warmer sound than Denon. Again, though, an amp which over-boosts high frequencies doesn't sound quite right to me. I know that a number of people on the thread do have Klipsch speakers, so perhaps one of them will chime in.
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
I have had amps that I felt sounded different too, but with all due respect to the other poster, it is hard for me to believe that a newer Denon amp made that much difference with respect to the sound. I had a high-end Rotel separates system once that sounded a little clinical compared to the Marantz sound I was used to. But that was pretty subtle. High frequency boosting doesn't sound like a subtle thing to me. I would still suspect an issue with the set-up, microphone, calibration, or settings.

If you are concerned, try to buy from a source where an exchange is possible, and try the Denon for yourself. Or try a comparable Marantz with XT-32. Many do believe, rightly or wrongly, that Marantz amps have a slightly warmer sound than Denon. Again, though, an amp which over-boosts high frequencies doesn't sound quite right to me. I know that a number of people on the thread do have Klipsch speakers, so perhaps one of them will chime in.
You could be right. He may have needed to run it again. Who knows. It was just one example to explain what I meant by my question, which was basically would XT32 make up for an otherwise bright sounding unit with no EQ.
Side note, as again I've never done this, in addition to the my post above about A/B'ing the two receivers in my living room, should I also remove the jumper cables between the two sets of posts on the back of my speakers? So one pair of cables from Marantz to speakers and a second pair from Yamaha to second binding posts on speakers, and jumper cables removed? Would this be the correct setup to switch back and forth?
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Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
You could be right. He may have needed to run it again. Who knows. It was just one example to explain what I meant by my question, which was basically would XT32 make up for an otherwise bright sounding unit with no EQ.
Side note, as again I've never done this, in addition to the my post above about A/B'ing the two receivers in my living room, should I also remove the jumper cables between the two sets of posts on the back of my speakers? So one pair of cables from Marantz to speakers and a second pair from Yamaha to second binding posts on speakers, and jumper cables removed? Would this be the correct setup to switch back and forth?

I don't know how much XT-32 will help with an otherwise bright sound with no EQ, but in general it shouldn't hurt, and it should definitely help with lower frequencies. Assuming good set-up and calibration, I think the best way to address bright sounding speakers is with your settings post-calibration. I will be interested to hear your impressions of Yamaha versus Marantz if that is what you decide to test.

I think if you turn the Marantz off before disconnecting the speakers and make sure it stays off until you have reconnected them, Audyssey shouldn't be affected and you won't have to re-run it, which would be a pain. I wouldn't worry too much about how quickly you can reconnect things vis-a-vis your audio memory. This won't be a blind test anyway. My own approach to buying speakers is to listen for 30 minutes to an hour with one speaker system and then use the same music in the same way with another. It helps me to do that on more than one day and to vary the order. I gradually (or sometimes rapidly) form an impression of which speakers I prefer listening to. The same technique should work here. I think you said that you have used XT in the past, so spend some time getting your calibration technique down, and check back if you need any tweaking advice. I wouldn't expect you to hear a lot of difference between the two amps, so XT-32 should be the major variable.

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[QUOTE=01svtL;35588434]Well I just read in an X4000 thread on another forum that a user went from a 3312 to the X4000, the AVR being the only change, and he was not happy with the X4000 compared to the 3312. He said he though his sub sounded better with the X32 EQ, but that his speakers now sounded unpleasantly bright.

I'm going to run a quick test in my living room to see if I can tell the difference. I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5 mains. QUOTE]


Its not the AVR brands that's the problem with the Klipsch its the horns they use. They are notorious for sounding bright with Audyssey until you find the RIGHT place for the mic.
I have 15 Klipsch THX Ultra 2 speakers in my HT and have spent years trying to warm them up with XT32. Changing AVRs did nothing, Integra, Denon and now Marantz, model after model did nothing! I spent $$$$ trying to warm the speakers up, if I turned off EQ they were TOO warm, so in the end I knew it wasn't an amp issue, or really a speaker issue it was an Audyssey issue.


Finally using measuring equipment I discovered a completely different mic pattern to use rather than what they describe in the manual. Bingo! I have EQ working and finally the Klipsch are no longer bright! Everything just snapped into place after getting the mic pattern right after hundreds of experiments Dialog really improved beautifully, sound stage and imaging detailed and precise. Its a wonderful thing never giving up to perfect the sound, some rooms are easy others hard work.


Things to look out for especially with Klipsch:
Must toe in the L&R speakers (horns are very directional)
Horns level with the ears.


Audyssey isn't always just a plug and play thing for all rooms.....
I believe Dirac is much more forgiving and mic placement isn't as critical as Audyssey is.


I say don't waste time on the amps, research more about Audyssey, that's if you want to EQ. Read the FAQ page many times, but in the end even then you may have to modify for your own taste like I did.

Murray Thompson
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[quote=RapalloAV;35594146]
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Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
Well I just read in an X4000 thread on another forum that a user went from a 3312 to the X4000, the AVR being the only change, and he was not happy with the X4000 compared to the 3312. He said he though his sub sounded better with the X32 EQ, but that his speakers now sounded unpleasantly bright.

I'm going to run a quick test in my living room to see if I can tell the difference. I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5 mains. QUOTE]


Its not the AVR brands that's the problem with the Klipsch its the horns they use. They are notorious for sounding bright with Audyssey until you find the RIGHT place for the mic.
I have 15 Klipsch THX Ultra 2 speakers in my HT and have spent years trying to warm them up with XT32. Changing AVRs did nothing, Integra, Denon and now Marantz, model after model did nothing! I spent $$$$ trying to warm the speakers up, if I turned off EQ they were TOO warm, so in the end I knew it wasn't an amp issue, or really a speaker issue it was an Audyssey issue.


Finally using measuring equipment I discovered a completely different mic pattern to use rather than what they describe in the manual. Bingo! I have EQ working and finally the Klipsch are no longer bright! Everything just snapped into place after getting the mic pattern right after hundreds of experiments Dialog really improved beautifully, sound stage and imaging detailed and precise. Its a wonderful thing never giving up to perfect the sound, some rooms are easy others hard work.


Things to look out for especially with Klipsch:
Must toe in the L&R speakers (horns are very directional)
Horns level with the ears.


Audyssey isn't always just a plug and play thing for all rooms.....
I believe Dirac is much more forgiving and mic placement isn't as critical as Audyssey is.


I say don't waste time on the amps, research more about Audyssey, that's if you want to EQ. Read the FAQ page many times, but in the end even then you may have to modify for your own taste like I did.
Good info, thanks for the reply! If you don't mind, shoot me a PM with what you did to find the right sound.
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[quote=01svtL;35594306]
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Originally Posted by RapalloAV View Post

Good info, thanks for the reply! If you don't mind, shoot me a PM with what you did to find the right sound.

One thing I noticed from an earlier post is that you were planning to A/B in Pure Direct. Pure Direct will disable Audyssey, so you won't be able to tell anything. The advice to really concentrate on learning and optimizing Audyssey is good. I don't have as much faith in an A/B comparison as I do in your ability to achieve very good results with Audyssey. But FWIW, XT-32 is a definite step up.
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[quote=RapalloAV;35594146]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 01svtL View Post
Well I just read in an X4000 thread on another forum that a user went from a 3312 to the X4000, the AVR being the only change, and he was not happy with the X4000 compared to the 3312. He said he though his sub sounded better with the X32 EQ, but that his speakers now sounded unpleasantly bright.

I'm going to run a quick test in my living room to see if I can tell the difference. I have a pair of Klipsch RF-5 mains. QUOTE]


Its a wonderful thing never giving up to perfect the sound, some rooms are easy others hard work.

I say don't waste time on the amps, research more about Audyssey, that's if you want to EQ. Read the FAQ page many times, but in the end even then you may have to modify for your own taste like I did.
That's great advice, Murray, and I'm really glad you found a mic. pattern that worked for you. My room and system took some effort too, but it was well worth it in the end. Frankly, I think that people who are able to hit a satisfactory calibration in just a couple of tries are pretty lucky, or in some cases, perhaps less demanding. I also believe that even here on the Audyssey thread we haven't completely plumbed the depths of the post calibration tweaks that are available to us. But that is a separate discussion.

Regards,
Mike
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