"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2567 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #76981 of 77004 Old Today, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pasender91 View Post
I love what audissey XT32 does for EQ of the room but boy do i hate the Audissey DSX wides , they add a lot of echo into the wide stage, i find it appaling.
I know its not wides, but i found the PL IIz and Dolby Surround upmixers so much more attracting

I have never tried wides, but I surely like PLIIx.
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post #76982 of 77004 Old Today, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
It's fine as it is. But you were saying that you wanted more bass. So, if you are thinking of adjusting it upwards, then I would re-calibrate to get it much deeper into the negative numbers. I have been calibrating at -11, so that I can go up as much as I want and still be in negative numbers. And I have experimented with adding as much as 9db from that initial setting.

There was a time when a lot of us thought that -3 to +3 constituted the ideal calibration zone, but that thinking has changed based on information from Mark Seaton and Ed Mullen, two of the World's leading subwoofer experts. Again, the FAQ, and the two experts, can explain it to you better than I can. But I am careful to follow their advice.
My sub DXD 12012 has a setting that's for reference bass for the sub volume and it's suppose to stay there. It's a green dot setting on the back.
It's not like other subs where you move the knob like to 9 o'clock and get to calibrating with audyssey.
On that reference setting audyssey always sets my sub to say -3/+3.
If I want sub to give more bass I basically need to move the knob past reference say 8 o'clock and then run audyssey?
If the results are say -10 then I do the calibration for the sub to my liking by changing audyssey results to say 0 on the avr?

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post #76983 of 77004 Old Today, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
It's fine as it is. But you were saying that you wanted more bass. So, if you are thinking of adjusting it upwards, then I would re-calibrate to get it much deeper into the negative numbers. I have been calibrating at -11, so that I can go up as much as I want and still be in negative numbers. And I have experimented with adding as much as 9db from that initial setting.

There was a time when a lot of us thought that -3 to +3 constituted the ideal calibration zone, but that thinking has changed based on information from Mark Seaton and Ed Mullen, two of the World's leading subwoofer experts. Again, the FAQ, and the two experts, can explain it to you better than I can. But I am careful to follow their advice.
Mike's got it!

Just for reference, in my case Audyssey set my sub channel trim to -6 dB. Its OK with me for majority of movies. But when listening to music on the same living room setup I do need to raise this trim a tad bit, sometimes maybe a bit more than a tad bit due to the fact that some music recordings lack the bass I need. Being in the negative trim range makes it easy to adjust bass without overdriving the subwoofer channel causing undesired clipping or distortion withing my listening comfort range.
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post #76984 of 77004 Old Today, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Mike's got it!

Just for reference, in my case Audyssey set my sub channel trim to -6 dB. Its OK with me for majority of movies. But when listening to music on the same living room setup I do need to raise this trim a tad bit, sometimes maybe a bit more than a tad bit due to the fact that some music recordings lack the bass I need. Being in the negative trim range makes it easy to adjust bass without overdriving the subwoofer channel causing undesired clipping or distortion withing my listening comfort range.
If audyssey set it to -6 and you wanted more bass you would then just bump it up on avr?

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post #76985 of 77004 Old Today, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
If audyssey set it to -6 and you wanted more bass you would then just bump it up on avr?

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Yes, yes, yes, ...bump it up on the AVR! That's the way to do it!
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post #76986 of 77004 Old Today, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Yes, yes, yes, ...bump it up on the AVR! That's the way to do it!
But say you get +3 after audyssey but want more. Can you go up on avr or is it better to get say a - 8 and then bump from avr?

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post #76987 of 77004 Old Today, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
But say you get +3 after audyssey but want more. Can you go up on avr or is it better to get say a - 8 and then bump from avr?

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asere, you are pulling my leg! You know the good answer by now, right?
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post #76988 of 77004 Old Today, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
asere, you are pulling my leg! You know the good answer by now, right?
No I'm just confused now. Audyssey has always set my sub to around +3/-3. I however read from Ed Mullen like the other poster mentioned something about if you get a negative 10 for example it's best to bump up from avr. I guess what I'm wanting to know is if you get a +3 and are not happy is it better go to in avr then and bump up or is it better to get a -10 and bump up. Or is it the same?

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post #76989 of 77004 Old Today, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
No I'm just confused now. Audyssey has always set my sub to around +3/-3. I however read from Ed Mullen like the other poster mentioned something about if you get a negative 10 for example it's best to bump up from avr. I guess what I'm wanting to know is if you get a +3 and are not happy is it better go to in avr then and bump up or is it better to get a -10 and bump up. Or is it the same?

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If I recall correctly, if you end up at +3 sub trim in the AVR, then you only have +9 more to play with since +12 is the max. So the proper way is to set the gain on your sub so that you end up with a sub trim of circa -10ish. This would actually give you +22 to play with.

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post #76990 of 77004 Old Today, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
No I'm just confused now. Audyssey has always set my sub to around +3/-3. I however read from Ed Mullen like the other poster mentioned something about if you get a negative 10 for example it's best to bump up from avr. I guess what I'm wanting to know is if you get a +3 and are not happy is it better go to in avr then and bump up or is it better to get a -10 and bump up. Or is it the same?

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You are misunderstanding what Ed Mullen is saying. He is saying to try not to exceed a setting of about "0" in your AVR, regardless of how you get there. So, if Audyssey sets your sub to "0", let's say, and you plan to leave it there, then you are fine. Most of us, though, like to add something from where Audyssey sets it. But we still shouldn't exceed "0", so the recommendation is to increase the gain on your sub so that Audyssey will set your sub low (like -6 or -9, for instance). And then you can raise the level to whatever you like, but still not exceeding about "0". You are overthinking this and getting yourself confused. Just take it on faith for a while until it becomes clearer.
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post #76991 of 77004 Old Today, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
No I'm just confused now. Audyssey has always set my sub to around +3/-3. I however read from Ed Mullen like the other poster mentioned something about if you get a negative 10 for example it's best to bump up from avr. I guess what I'm wanting to know is if you get a +3 and are not happy is it better go to in avr then and bump up or is it better to get a -10 and bump up. Or is it the same?

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No its not the same, With a lower trim you always have more headroom to bump up your sub in the AVR. Hope this is clear!
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post #76992 of 77004 Old Today, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by ERuiz View Post
If I recall correctly, if you end up at +3 sub trim in the AVR, then you only have +9 more to play with since +12 is the max. So the proper way is to set the gain on your sub so that you end up with a sub trim of circa -10ish. This would actually give you +22 to play with.
Close, but not quite. The current wisdom is to try to stay in negative numbers to avoid over-driving the sub. I don't entirely understand the theory behind it, but since it comes from two of the leading sub makers, I am willing to take their word for it. So from -11, you would have about 11 or maybe 12db to play with. Just as a reminder, it takes a doubling in power to get a 3db volume increase. And a 10db increase is twice as loud as the previous sound level. So, 10db is a lot. A lot depends on your MV setting, though. If you are running movies at -20 on your MV, for instance, it's less of a concern. But I prefer to follow the advice just in case, irrespective of my MV setting.
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post #76993 of 77004 Old Today, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are misunderstanding what Ed Mullen is saying. He is saying to try not to exceed a setting of about "0" in your AVR, regardless of how you get there. So, if Audyssey sets your sub to "0", let's say, and you plan to leave it there, then you are fine. Most of us, though, like to add something from where Audyssey sets it. But we still shouldn't exceed "0", so the recommendation is to increase the gain on your sub so that Audyssey will set your sub low (like -6 or -9, for instance). And then you can raise the level to whatever you like, but still not exceeding about "0". You are overthinking this and getting yourself confused. Just take it on faith for a while until it becomes clearer.
Ok I'm understanding now. If I get say +3 then I shouldn't bump up. But if I get a -2 I can bump up to 0. If I get -6 I can bump up to +6, yes?

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post #76994 of 77004 Old Today, 04:33 PM
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No its not the same, With a lower trim you always have more headroom to bump up your sub in the AVR. Hope this is clear!
All clear and excuse my handicap lol!

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Stereo Subwoofers with Audyssey?

I have a Denon 4520 (running as a pre-amp), a separate power amp, and 2 subwoofers.

My goal: to have 2-channel music with STEREO subs, calibrated with XT32.

My idea: Hook up one sub to the main L pre-out from the Denon, and the other to the main R pre-out, use the subs’ internal high-pass crossover (80Hz) and connect the line out from the subs to the power amp.

When I run Audyssey, the subs and the main L/R speakers will receive the test signals at the same time. My question is, will this work? Will Audyssey be able to EQ each channel, even though above 80Hz will come out the speaker, and below 80Hz will come out the sub?

Thanks for your help!
Mark
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post #76996 of 77004 Old Today, 04:37 PM
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All clear and excuse my handicap lol!

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Glad we're on the same wavelenght! Enjoy!
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Ok I'm understanding now. If I get say +3 then I shouldn't bump up. But if I get a -2 I can bump up to 0. If I get -6 I can bump up to +6, yes?

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You are close to understanding. If you are at +3, lower the sub gain to get a - number, or no higher than "0". If you are at -6, you have 6db of upward adjustability. The advice is: Don't go into the positive numbers on your AVR, period. I'm stating it a little strongly, but that is an easy way to understand and remember it.
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post #76998 of 77004 Old Today, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by markhyams View Post
I have a Denon 4520 (running as a pre-amp), a separate power amp, and 2 subwoofers.

My goal: to have 2-channel music with STEREO subs, calibrated with XT32.

My idea: Hook up one sub to the main L pre-out from the Denon, and the other to the main R pre-out, use the subs’ internal high-pass crossover (80Hz) and connect the line out from the subs to the power amp.

When I run Audyssey, the subs and the main L/R speakers will receive the test signals at the same time. My question is, will this work? Will Audyssey be able to EQ each channel, even though above 80Hz will come out the speaker, and below 80Hz will come out the sub?

Thanks for your help!
Mark
Not recommended. Just try to use Audyssey "as intended", i.e. connect speakers to speaker terminals and subwoofers to subwoofer terminals. And call it a day.

BTW. There is no sucha thing as stereo subs, or stereo bass. Bass is non-directional to our human ears. For more details, please read the blog "Small vs. Large". Link in my sig.
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post #76999 of 77004 Old Today, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by markhyams View Post
I have a Denon 4520 (running as a pre-amp), a separate power amp, and 2 subwoofers.

My goal: to have 2-channel music with STEREO subs, calibrated with XT32.

My idea: Hook up one sub to the main L pre-out from the Denon, and the other to the main R pre-out, use the subs’ internal high-pass crossover (80Hz) and connect the line out from the subs to the power amp.

When I run Audyssey, the subs and the main L/R speakers will receive the test signals at the same time. My question is, will this work? Will Audyssey be able to EQ each channel, even though above 80Hz will come out the speaker, and below 80Hz will come out the sub?

Thanks for your help!
Mark

Hi Mark,

I may be misunderstanding something, but why don't you just run your two subs into your Denon as Sub 1 and Sub 2. Then after Audyssey time and level aligns the subs, and your AVR sets crossovers for your mains, you can reset the crossovers on the mains to 80Hz, or whatever you like, as long as you don't go below the original crossover assigned by your Denon. Meanwhile, you want your subs' high pass filters set as high as they will go. If you haven't already done so, you might want to read through the Audyssey Set-up Guide, and those portions of the FAQ that deal with multiple subwoofers.

Regards,
Mike
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are close to understanding. If you are at +3, lower the sub gain to get a - number, or no higher than "0". If you are at -6, you have 6db of upward adjustability. The advice is: Don't go into the positive numbers on your AVR, period. I'm stating it a little strongly, but that is an easy way to understand and remember it.
Gotcha thx!

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post #77001 of 77004 Old Today, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
Hi Mark,

I may be misunderstanding something, but why don't you just run your two subs into your Denon as Sub 1 and Sub 2.
Because this just results in mono bass. The two subwoofer channels are identical, although they are EQed separately.

Mark
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
You are close to understanding. If you are at +3, lower the sub gain to get a - number, or no higher than "0". If you are at -6, you have 6db of upward adjustability. The advice is: Don't go into the positive numbers on your AVR, period. I'm stating it a little strongly, but that is an easy way to understand and remember it.
Now I mentioned I understood and I do. But if you get -6 and you bump up to -9 is that considered hot? Or is hot considered over 0?
Sorry I'm just used to the +/-3.

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post #77003 of 77004 Old Today, 05:26 PM
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Originally Posted by markhyams View Post
Because this just results in mono bass. The two subwoofer channels are identical, although they are EQed separately.

Mark

Well, you certainly are free to pursue the notion of stereo bass, but I believe that Feri gave you the right scoop on that. If you have subwoofers, you already know that the low bass sounds they play (below about 80Hz) are non-directional. That is the whole reason that subs were developed, and the whole reason why they work. You can place your sub(s) wherever in the room it produces the strongest bass, and it will support the speakers in the room, wherever they are located. I'm sure that you have already observed that for yourself. So if I were you, and I wanted to set crossovers at 80Hz, I would try it as recommended, and just see what you think.

I don't know how good your main speakers are, but if I really needed to set high crossovers, say 100-120Hz, I might then try to locate my two subs at the front of the room and fairly close to the main speakers, because at that point, I probably would be able to localize (hear where the sound was coming from) the subs fairly easily. But that would be a kind of stereo bass out of necessity. And both subs would still be playing the same sounds. That would still be true if you had 8 subs; and some people do. If your mains are capable of playing down to 8oHz or so, and you are planning to set crossovers at 80, you should be good to go, more or less regardless of where your subs are physically located. I do recommend a sub crawl to optimize their placement, though.

If you believe that you can still localize some bass sounds at that 80Hz setting, then consider setting your crossovers at 60Hz, if your mains are capable enough. I would experiment with that if I were you before doing what you asked about. There is an awful lot of accumulated Audyssey and subwoofer knowledge on this thread, and you are getting the benefit of it.

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Now I mentioned I understood and I do. But if you get -6 and you bump up to -9 is that considered hot? Or is hot considered over 0?
Sorry I'm just used to the +/-3.

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Don't worry about what's hot right now. Bump it up however much you like. Just don't go over "0" when you do it. That's why you want to start with -9, or so.
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