"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 2568 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #77011 of 77039 Old 08-31-2015, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markhyams View Post
Thanks so much for the answer! This is the kind of info I was looking for.

I only mentioned the music/movie thing because a previous post noted that I wouldn't be getting the LFE channel, and talked about the LPF for LFE, all of which isn't relevant to music.

Thanks again for all your help!
Mark
Glad to help you out!

BTW, there are multi-channel music SACDs out on the market that have an additional LFE channel. This also caught me be surprise! Don't give up so easily on the LFE channel for music. It exists!

For example:

Pink Floyd's: DSOTM,
Product No.: CEMI 5821362 SA
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post #77012 of 77039 Old 08-31-2015, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by markhyams View Post
I fully understand all the drawbacks and compromises with my proposed set-up. It is actually for music only, btw.

No one has answered my original question, though. Will the Audyssey auto set-up actually work? With the sub and main speaker on the same channel, receiving the test tone at the same time?

Also btw, my main speakers are B&W CM7s. I think another poster was curious.
Hi Mark,


To add to what Feri said, I'm not sure anyone knows exactly what the result will be as this is a very unconventional use of software that was designed to be used in a particular way. Just guessing, I would expect that time delays, levels, and perhaps crossovers, as well, will be affected, as Feri suggested. I also have no clue how XT-32 would be able to set filters for two speakers wired to the same single speaker connection. So, if you are really determined to do this, I am not sure that there will be a way to take advantage of Audyssey room correction in the process.

The reason I was curious about your main speakers was because I was interested in their low bass performance. From a quick review, it appears that they can go down to about 40Hz, or so. Can you confirm that based on a conventional Audyssey calibration? If you are going to be using Audyssey at all, you will probably need to do multiple calibrations anyway to perfect your set-up, mic. positions, and overall calibration technique. So, I would suggest doing a standard calibration first, just to establish a performance baseline, and to find out where your Denon sets the crossovers for your CM7's. Then if you want to experiment with an unconventional methodology, you will at least have some basis for comparison.

The point I was making before is that if your AVR reports your speakers as Full-Range (Large), or even as Small/40Hz, then you have unlimited configuration options without losing the benefits of XT-32. You could set your crossover at 60Hz, or even at 40Hz, and still have the benefit of both your subs and room correction, as intended, without ever being able to localize the infrequent musical sounds below about 60Hz.

FWIW, I listen to stereo bass every day, as I have six full-range speakers (all with F3 points below 40hz).
I listen to music with a phantom center and no subs, and then reset all speakers to Small, and add back my center and subs for movies. The fact is that low bass sounds of under about 70Hz, for me, are essentially non-directional whether they come from the low fundamentals of a kick drum, or an upright bass, or a piano or organ. The notes just hang suspended in the air, reverberating in the room. Even if you have the exceptional ability to localize bass down to about 60Hz, you can solve that with a 60Hz crossover setting. That is why I am encouraging you to try a conventional approach first, listen to it to see how it sounds, and only then experiment with a completely unconventional approach if you aren't satisfied. I suspect that the difference in sound quality between a properly implemented XT-32 and a hybridized approach will be substantial.

Regards,
Mike
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post #77013 of 77039 Old 08-31-2015, 08:10 PM
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ran XT32 on my new denon X4200W before reading this FAQ, and feel I made some mistakes

1. there was an out of phase warning for my centre channel, and I swapped the connections. Reading the FAQ, I realise it was a wrong call (the original connection was OK). Can I just swap it back now, or do I need to run the calibration again? The FAQ isn't very clear on the impact

2. Audyssey decided that my mains (kef q900) and centre (kef q600c) are full range (large). I understand I should set them to small (I have an SVS SB2000 sub). I am not sure what crossover I should use? I was thinking of 80Hz, but I am not sure. Also, do I need to calibrate again if I change to small and set a crossover?

3. The surrounds are set at 100Hz by audyssey - would it be ok to bump them up to 150 (manufacturer's -3db point) or leave them at 100?
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post #77014 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 12:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by apesterin View Post
ran XT32 on my new denon X4200W before reading this FAQ, and feel I made some mistakes

1. there was an out of phase warning for my centre channel, and I swapped the connections. Reading the FAQ, I realise it was a wrong call (the original connection was OK). Can I just swap it back now, or do I need to run the calibration again? The FAQ isn't very clear on the impact

2. Audyssey decided that my mains (kef q900) and centre (kef q600c) are full range (large). I understand I should set them to small (I have an SVS SB2000 sub). I am not sure what crossover I should use? I was thinking of 80Hz, but I am not sure. Also, do I need to calibrate again if I change to small and set a crossover?

3. The surrounds are set at 100Hz by audyssey - would it be ok to bump them up to 150 (manufacturer's -3db point) or leave them at 100?
As for 1. i think you have to re-run audyssey with the ok connection but i am not sure....someone else might chime in...2. yes the general rule is to set everything to small...i would start with 80 hz (but it is essential that you dont lower the croosver below the audyssey finded -3db point...you can raise it but dont lower it!) and you dont have to re-run the audyssey for setting large to small since the receiver will set it as is anyway ...as for 3. as i said it is ok to go higher with the crossover but dont go lower (because there will be no correction applied below the crossover that audyssey sets)...experiment with it but with 150 hz crossover and one sub you might have some localization issues with the sub (since audyssey find -3db point in your room at 100 hz you might try it for sometime but if it will sound distorted at higher volumes than put it at 150 hz)

Marantz sr7008 (running 9.2 audyssey DSX, DTS:NEO X), monitor audio bx6,bx center,bx fx (4x),bx1,sub SVS sb13ultra (2x), panasonic 60asw654
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post #77015 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 02:34 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
AccuEQ doesn't eq the Front L&Rs, or in otherwords doesn't set filters based on speaker/room interaction. For me that would be a complete deal braker just by looking at the spec sheet itself. Isn't it like buying two cars, one that comes with wheels and the other one without!
Since an Onkyo FW upgrade, AccuEQ can now EQ the front L&R speakers.
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post #77016 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 02:35 AM
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Deleted as already answered. (The delete function now seems to have stopped on this thread, along with all the other issues the extreme length of the thread seems to cause).

Last edited by kbarnes701; 09-01-2015 at 02:42 AM.
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post #77017 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 02:36 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Since an Onkyo FW upgrade, AccuEQ can now EQ the front L&R speakers.
Wow! Thanks for the info. But what happened at Onkyo?
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post #77018 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 02:40 AM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Wow! Thanks for the info. But what happened at Onkyo?
I think they employed someone who knows what the purpose of room EQ is
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post #77019 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 02:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post
Since an Onkyo FW upgrade, AccuEQ can now EQ the front L&R speakers.
Is there any comparison/review between the new AccuEQ and Audyssey?
I can't find any user reviews.
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post #77020 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Skylinestar View Post
Is there any comparison/review between the new AccuEQ and Audyssey?
I can't find any user reviews.
IDK. By all accounts, AccuEQ is not nearly as good as XT32.
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post #77021 of 77039 Old 09-01-2015, 06:12 AM
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What I don't understand is how Dolby collaborated with Onkyo on this Accueq?
You would think the engineers would have done a better job.

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post #77022 of 77039 Unread Today, 07:59 AM
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I have read and seen the audyssey mic placement guide before and I know the mic goes on ML area and around that couch.
But what is the best way to place the mic in a different couch besides the main area?
I have a couch to the side where people sit. It is not facing the main couch it's of to the side.
Do I measure on that couch too?
I ask because you see the audyssey diagram with mic placement facing the speakers but how about a side couch?


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Originally Posted by asere View Post
I have read and seen the audyssey mic placement guide before and I know the mic goes on ML area and around that couch.
But what is the best way to place the mic in a different couch besides the main area?
I have a couch to the side where people sit. It is not facing the main couch it's of to the side.
Do I measure on that couch too?
I ask because you see the audyssey diagram with mic placement facing the speakers but how about a side couch?


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That's actually a tough question and one that has been discussed, in various forms, a lot over the years. I guess the best answer is that it depends on your particular room and preferences. Based on what I have observed from user comments, Audyssey is most effective at EQing a really large area when the overall room response is pretty consistent. That makes sense. If your room is heavily treated, for instance, you can probably use a very large mic. distribution pattern without affecting the resulting EQ too much.

You can post some photos for specific suggestions on mic. placement, but I would probably try it both ways, depending on how often the second sofa is used. I would start with a calibration clustered around the primary sofa in order to establish a baseline. Once you have a good calibration, you can sit on the second sofa and see what you think. Then, if you want to, you can try a second calibration covering an even wider area. My guess is that you will get a much better calibration if you concentrate just on the one sofa, but you will need to judge that for yourself.
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That's actually a tough question and one that has been discussed, in various forms, a lot over the years. I guess the best answer is that it depends on your particular room and preferences. Based on what I have observed from user comments, Audyssey is most effective at EQing a really large area when the overall room response is pretty consistent. That makes sense. If your room is heavily treated, for instance, you can probably use a very large mic. distribution pattern without affecting the resulting EQ too much.

You can post some photos for specific suggestions on mic. placement, but I would probably try it both ways, depending on how often the second sofa is used. I would start with a calibration clustered around the primary sofa in order to establish a baseline. Once you have a good calibration, you can sit on the second sofa and see what you think. Then, if you want to, you can try a second calibration covering an even wider area. My guess is that you will get a much better calibration if you concentrate just on the one sofa, but you will need to judge that for yourself.
Here is an example. Where the football drink holder is where I sit.
The other couch is the one I was referring too. I wonder if I should measure 4 times right on the ML area couch and then the other 4 on the other couch instead of on the floor.
Click image for larger version

Name:	uploadfromtaptalk1441295298833.jpg
Views:	18
Size:	172.1 KB
ID:	922666

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post #77025 of 77039 Unread Today, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mthomas47 View Post
That's actually a tough question and one that has been discussed, in various forms, a lot over the years. I guess the best answer is that it depends on your particular room and preferences. Based on what I have observed from user comments, Audyssey is most effective at EQing a really large area when the overall room response is pretty consistent. That makes sense. If your room is heavily treated, for instance, you can probably use a very large mic. distribution pattern without affecting the resulting EQ too much.

You can post some photos for specific suggestions on mic. placement, but I would probably try it both ways, depending on how often the second sofa is used. I would start with a calibration clustered around the primary sofa in order to establish a baseline. Once you have a good calibration, you can sit on the second sofa and see what you think. Then, if you want to, you can try a second calibration covering an even wider area. My guess is that you will get a much better calibration if you concentrate just on the one sofa, but you will need to judge that for yourself.
Fully agree with Mike. asere your question is a tough one (as usual). JK!

In a "perfect" setup everything is supposed to be symmetrical coz that will render the best sound stage imaging whatsoever!

General guideline with mic placement is not to go beyond front L&Rs to the left and right and to avoid going near to side walls.

Also agree with Mike, a couple of photos would tell more than a 1,000 words, if you may!
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post
Fully agree with Mike. asere your question is a tough one (as usual). JK!

In a "perfect" setup everything is supposed to be symmetrical coz that will render the best sound stage imaging whatsoever!

General guideline with mic placement is not to go beyond front L&Rs to the left and right and to avoid going near to side walls.

Also agree with Mike, a couple of photos would tell more than a 1,000 words, if you may!
Thanks. I just posted a pic I had.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post
Here is an example. Where the football drink holder is where I sit.
The other couch is the one I was referring too. I wonder if I should measure 4 times right on the ML area couch and then the other 4 on the other couch instead of on the floor.
Attachment 922666



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asere, with this room configutation you are never going to achive what you strive for. Should there be a possibility to move everything out of the left side corner and place them at the front wall, i.e. in front of the seating area, the results will be a bliss.

Remember: symmetrical placement is a prerequisite.

Have you ever been to a movie theater where the screen and the spreakers were in the left corner of the hall!!
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asere, with this room configutation you are never going to achive what you strive for. Should there be a possibility to move everything out of the left side corner and place them at the front wall, i.e. in front of the seating area, the results will be a bliss.

Remember: symmetrical placement is a prerequisite.

Have you ever been to a movie theater where the screen and the spreakers were in the left corner of the hall!!
Wife won't allow the tv elsewhere. Also the in ceiling speakers would stay and adding a different in ceiling layout would be crazy with the new and old mix.

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asere, with this room configutation you are never going to achive what you strive for. Should there be a possibility to move everything out of the left side corner and place them at the front wall, i.e. in front of the seating area, the results will be a bliss.

Remember: symmetrical placement is a prerequisite.

Have you ever been to a movie theater where the screen and the spreakers were in the left corner of the hall!!
Also in my current set up the speakers are all facing the listen position. I know it looks odd on the pic but the speakers are centered at least in the corner of main area and the other couch.


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Wife won't allow the tv elsewhere. Also the in ceiling speakers would stay and adding a different in ceiling layout would be crazy with the new and old mix.

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I hear you asere, if wife doesn't allow then wife doesn't allow. Full stop.

Do you have another room or a basement in the house where you can be the boss?
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I hear you asere, if wife doesn't allow then wife doesn't allow. Full stop.

Do you have another room or a basement in the house whre you can be the boss?
Haha, nope all taken by kids and NO basement.

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Also in my current set up the speakers are all facing the listen position. I know it looks odd on the pic but the speakers are centered at least in the corner of main area and the other couch.


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asere, even though your speakers are facing the MLP, it really doeesn't make sence to have the front right speaker to the left of the listening position. You get it, right?
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Haha, nope all taken by kids and NO basement.

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Then you have only one choice! How far is the nearest movie theater to you? JK!
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asere, even though your speakers are facing the MLP, it really doeesn't make sence to have the front right speaker to the left of the listening position. You get it, right?
I get it but what can I do. Even if I moved the tv the pattern would then ugly with all the in ceilings.

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Then you have only one choice! How far is the nearest movie theater to you? JK!
It's crazy I know but considering the circumstances it sounds great.

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It's crazy I know but considering the circumstances it sounds great.

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Then enjoy, please. Remote in one hand, cold beer in the other! Now I'm serious!!
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Then enjoy, please. Remote in one hand, cold beer in the other! Now I'm serious!!
Lol believe me especially for game time.
Here is another shot of top frontsClick image for larger version

Name:	uploadfromtaptalk1441298724943.jpg
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Then enjoy, please. Remote in one hand, cold beer in the other! Now I'm serious!!

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Lol believe me especially for game time.
Here is another shot of top frontsAttachment 922746. Now you can see why moving is pointless.



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I think Feri nailed it when he said that if it already sounds good, then you are probably where you want to be. Looking at the photo, I think that the second couch is too far away to include in your mic. placement. There may still be some overall room EQ benefit occurring at the side couch. Have you tried listening from there?

Feri already made good points with respect to mic. placement in relation to speaker positions. In addition, I believe that the suggested mic. pattern contemplates EQing an area of about 6' by 6', or so. Say, about 36sq ft. You would be going way beyond that if you covered the main sofa properly and the second one, as well. I think you should just concentrate on getting as good a calibration as possible for that primary listening area.
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I think Feri nailed it when he said that if it already sounds good, then you are probably where you want to be. Looking at the photo, I think that the second couch is too far away to include in your mic. placement. There may still be some overall room EQ benefit occurring at the side couch. Have you tried listening from there?

Feri already made good points with respect to mic. placement in relation to speaker positions. In addition, I believe that the suggested mic. pattern contemplates EQing an area of about 6' by 6', or so. Say, about 36sq ft. You would be going way beyond that if you covered the main sofa properly and the second one, as well. I think you should just concentrate on getting as good a calibration as possible for that primary listening area.
From both sofas it sounds the same to me. I will take measurements at main listening area in 3 different areas on that couch and then I'll do the floor measurements and stay within 6' from where the main area is.
I can still measure in front of the other couch but I'll only do floor measurements there.

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Last edited by asere; Today at 10:13 AM.
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