"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 10:38 AM
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And here lies the reason Audyssey pushed for "full range" to mean "< 40 Hz" instead of 80Hz, because the crossover frequency Audyssey found is not available on the Onkyos if it's less than 80 Hz. Very annoying.

Don't bother to set the crossover freqs before running Audyssey - it ignores them and does its own crossover estimates.

If your speakers are found to be full range, you can look up the spec, add 10-20 hz just to be safe, and use that value. Or if you just want to control the bass in the room by putting more into the sub, you can set the crossovers to 80 Hz. That way, your amp doesn't work too hard putting deep bass into your speakers, you get non-localizable deep bass from your sub, and all the speakers are guaranteed to be within Audyssey EQ frequency range.. Both strategies can work well, and it's easy to try both, and see if you prefer one or the other.

All my speakers show up as "full range". So their cutoff freqs are below 80 Hz, according to the Receiver's knowledge.

But I know that my speakers cutoffs are [probably about 40-80 Hz.

So: If I set a speaker' cutoff at 40, and it is really 80, then the receiver is sending the 40 Hz signal to the speaker, it has low response, and it is wasted power and lost bass; but if I set it to 80 and it is really 40, then the power is diverted by the reciever to the sub. I don't fully utilize the speaker's capability, but I don't loose any frequencies.

Tell me that Auddyssey is advanced enough to know that if power diverted from certain speakers due to their crossover settings, that the level of the signal sent to the sub is adjusted for its proper power level based on the known response curve for that subwoofer.

In which case, it would always be "safe" to set all cutoffs at 80 Hz so long as the speakers' is really lower than that and the sub's is higher than that. Any setting betyween 40 and 80 might be workable, but the accuracy of response would be unknown.

This seems like a question that there should be a clear cut answer to and should have been thought about in the initial design of Audyssey. The question could be resolved by a blanket statement, such as "If your receiver considers all speakers with a cutoff frequency of XX Hz and below as "full range", then set their crossover frequencies to XX Hz.

*Is* Audyssey compensating for the correct volume at each speaker after crossovers are introduced into the system response ? If you sent that low freq. to speaker A, it would be reproduced with a power B. But if it is sent to a sub, it is reproduced at some outher loudness level, unless compensated.

If not, it seems like another case of just goofing around and picking what sounds good !
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post #812 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 10:59 AM
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Can someone clarify this ?
When Audyssesy comes up with mix of LARGE and SMALL speakers, the algorithm will process the full range of frequencies for LARGE speakers while it will go only down to the Crossover Freq for SMALL speakers ?
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post #813 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tasos View Post

For double checking.

Since the individual devices are matched to a specific batch of a specific mic, I doubt this would be useful (or even work).

Kal Rubinson

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Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #814 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 01:45 PM
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Two of the links in the first posting for this thread do not work anymore (at least for me) The implementation and the FAQ.

Reggie
Family Room:70" Sharp Elite/Marantz AV8801/MM8077/GoldenEar:Triton Ones (superseding Triton 2s), SuperCenter XL center channel, and SuperSat 60surrounds/Oppo BDP-105/Directv Genie/ HP Notebook
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post #815 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

All my speakers show up as "full range". So their cutoff freqs are below 80 Hz, according to the Receiver's knowledge.

But I know that my speakers cutoffs are [probably about 40-80 Hz.

So: If I set a speaker' cutoff at 40, and it is really 80, then the receiver is sending the 40 Hz signal to the speaker, it has low response, and it is wasted power and lost bass; but if I set it to 80 and it is really 40, then the power is diverted by the reciever to the sub. I don't fully utilize the speaker's capability, but I don't loose any frequencies.

Right.
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Tell me that Auddyssey is advanced enough to know that if power diverted from certain speakers due to their crossover settings, that the level of the signal sent to the sub is adjusted for its proper power level based on the known response curve for that subwoofer.

This is a bass management issue, not part of the Audyssey process.
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In which case, it would always be "safe" to set all cutoffs at 80 Hz so long as the speakers' is really lower than that and the sub's is higher than that. Any setting betyween 40 and 80 might be workable, but the accuracy of response would be unknown.

Right again.
Quote:
This seems like a question that there should be a clear cut answer to and should have been thought about in the initial design of Audyssey. The question could be resolved by a blanket statement, such as "If your receiver considers all speakers with a cutoff frequency of XX Hz and below as "full range", then set their crossover frequencies to XX Hz.

Well, it really again it is not the Audyssey system that decides bass management policy. Its up to us, the users, to understand the system as its been explained in the Audyssey FAQ and by Chris here on avsforum and elsewhere, and decide how we want to proceed.

I've made a suggestion based on my experience and knowledge, but a number of others have different views and come to different conclusions, such as lowering the cutoff to a much lower value than the 80Hz, or running the speakers full-range and turning on Double Bass to get additional output from the sub.
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*Is* Audyssey compensating for the correct volume at each speaker after crossovers are introduced into the system response ? If you sent that low freq. to speaker A, it would be reproduced with a power B. But if it is sent to a sub, it is reproduced at some outher loudness level, unless compensated.

Again, this is an AVR bass management question, not Audyssey.
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post #816 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by xxxxxx View Post

Chris has made mention that he (Audyssey) feels that 40Hz is more realistic and that Audyssey has been pushing AVR manufacturers to use a lower frequency to make the large vs. small decision.

Right, I recall that. You know, it seems to me that the rational way to do any automatic large/small decision is if the crossover freq found by the automatic system is below the lowest crossover available in the AVR, then it's large. Otherwise, it's small with whatever crossover was found. How does that sound?
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post #817 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 02:37 PM
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I'm hoping Chris may be able to help me.

Currently my sub is powered with an outboard Parapix Sub amp (2 x 50w). The sub has 2 independant drivers which use each chanel. Prior to the amp the signal from the pre-out going through a Behringer DSP1124P. This is a two channel 24 filter parametric equalizer using a high speed DSP with infinitly variable Q, +/- Gain, etc. Checking the response with an RTA I got my sub in-room response virtually flat (don't know what it does to the phasing).

I am thinking of changing the 2 x 50w Parapix for a 2 x 150w amp (which doesn't have a Low Pass Filter). My main question is should I take the Behringer equalizer out of the circuit and allow Audyssey (MultiEQ XT) to do all the sub EQing, or should I have the Behringer do most of the hard work leaving Audyssey to clean up what's left?
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post #818 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audiguy3 View Post

Two of the links in the first posting for this thread do not work anymore (at least for me) The implementation and the FAQ.

An updated address was posted a while back, but has long since been buried. Here's the link to that post:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...2#post12585872
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post #819 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 02:52 PM
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Thanks Chris,
After finding that phase control and doing some reading, I put it back to 0. Do I need to re-do the calibration? Also, on the back of the sub, where should the cutoff frequency be at? Since the Denon 2808ci sets the LFE lowpass filter to 80Hz, I should manually change this to 120Hz? Sorry for all the questions, but this is all new to me. Since listening to the new HBR codecs, the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs have new life and I'm really enjoying them all over again.

Phil

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Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Phil,

I would start with the phase control at 0° and not 180°. You are intentionally putting the sub out of phase with the main speakers by setting it to 180°. There are occasions when that might be useful, but you should start with it in phase first. The settings you are getting from MultEQ seem reasonable. Remember that the 80 Hz is not the sub crossover. It is the LFE lowpass filter that only applies to the separate LFE track. MultEQ doesn't set that. It probably defaults to 80 Hz in your receiver, but should really be at 120 Hz as that is the standard used during mixing. The sub is crossed over the main speakers at the frequencies indicated next to each speaker.

Regards,
Chris

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post #820 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 04:03 PM
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Is* Audyssey compensating for the correct volume at each speaker after crossovers are introduced into the system response ? If you sent that low freq. to speaker A, it would be reproduced with a power B. But if it is sent to a sub, it is reproduced at some outher loudness level, unless compensated.

Again, this is an AVR bass management question, not Audyssey.

But let's leave the bass out of it for a moment.

For a given midrange frequency, Audyssey is "adjusting" the outputs of the speakers to be "accurate" (amplitude and phase) at the listening position.

Now consider a lower frequency, at which Audyssey calculated "adjustments" , but did so while assuming "Full range capability" of the speaker (all set to "Full"). When it comes time to reproduce a low note, lower than the speakers real (but unknwon) LCF, Audyssey must sent it a higher signal to compensate for its low output....at least to a point.
Or does Audyssey know enough to NOT send power at low freq.s that may not be produced ?

It seems like it is all in the logic of how signals are handled right in the crossover regions. Of course we could just set it to whatever we think 'sounds good', but we could do that even without Audyssey. So I still don't feel like I understand what the real benefit is. Unless we say "it is beneficial, with some uncertainty near speaker crossover points" and just accept that as a limitation.
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post #821 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

Now consider a lower frequency, at which Audyssey calculated "adjustments" , but did so while assuming "Full range capability" of the speaker (all set to "Full"). When it comes time to reproduce a low note, lower than the speakers real (but unknwon) LCF, Audyssey must sent it a higher signal to compensate for its low output....at least to a point.
Or does Audyssey know enough to NOT send power at low freq.s that may not be produced ?

The short answer to the last question is yes, or at least that is what it tries to do. The Audyssey system first measures the response of the speaker in the room using its pings. It then analyzes that response to find the frequency range that the speaker is capable of reproducing in that room - as you have figured out, that is not a simple task, with all the peaks and dips that a speaker has in its lower register in a real room. Figuring out that crossover is a clever part of the Audyssey algorithm. Notice we have not yet talked about EQ - first Audyssey finds the right frequency range. Then the filters are calculated to correct the response within that range.
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post #822 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 06:55 PM
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Figuring out that crossover is a clever part of the Audyssey algorithm. Notice we have not yet talked about EQ - first Audyssey finds the right frequency range. Then the filters are calculated to correct the response within that range.

OK !
But if I understand correctly, Audyssy *is* smart enough to not send a speaker low freqs that can't be amplified, and there would therefore be no reason to set the Receiver's "crossover freq" at all....Audessey won't let it try to send those frequencies anyway ! Audyssey is enforcing its own crossover frequency...though it may not call it that, and it may be defined slightly differently than the usual -3dB point.

(Now I have argued myself back into leaving all speakers as "Full range". Where am I wrong ?
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post #823 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 07:06 PM
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When using up Auto setup with my Denon AVR 3808 it tells me to defeat my volume and crossover, does that mean set them both to the lowest possible settings?
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post #824 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 07:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

OK !
But if I understand correctly, Audyssy *is* smart enough to not send a speaker low freqs that can't be amplified, and there would therefore be no reason to set the Receiver's "crossover freq" at all....Audessey won't let it try to send those frequencies anyway ! Audyssey is enforcing its own crossover frequency...though it may not call it that, and it may be defined slightly differently than the usual -3dB point.

(Now I have argued myself back into leaving all speakers as "Full range". Where am I wrong ?

The frequencies in the Left, Center, Right, etc channels below the crossovers will be lost and not sent to the sub - bass management again. Also, remember Audyssey doesn't actually do the crossover stuff - that's the AVR's job. Audyssey just hands the AVR its best estimates for those frequencies.
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post #825 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pondria View Post

Can someone clarify this ?
When Audyssesy comes up with mix of LARGE and SMALL speakers, the algorithm will process the full range of frequencies for LARGE speakers while it will go only down to the Crossover Freq for SMALL speakers ?

Yes, that is correct.

Chris

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post #826 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jr Flyers View Post

When using up Auto setup with my Denon AVR 3808 it tells me to defeat my volume and crossover, does that mean set them both to the lowest possible settings?

It doesn't "tell you", it actually does it for you. The volume and other internal settings are completely ignored when you start MultEQ.

Regards,
Chris

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post #827 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amber O'Doul View Post

OK !
But if I understand correctly, Audyssy *is* smart enough to not send a speaker low freqs that can't be amplified, and there would therefore be no reason to set the Receiver's "crossover freq" at all....Audessey won't let it try to send those frequencies anyway ! Audyssey is enforcing its own crossover frequency...though it may not call it that, and it may be defined slightly differently than the usual -3dB point.

(Now I have argued myself back into leaving all speakers as "Full range". Where am I wrong ?

Amber,

Yes Audyssey is "smart enough" (thanks ), but we don't get to decide what frequencies are sent to speakers. We would love to take over that role, but manufacturers have not let us do that yet. What we can decide is whether to correct below the point that would potentially damage the speakers.

So, MultEQ measures your speakers and decides how low each one performs. Then it applies a limit so that no correction is applied below that frequency.

Note that this limit is on the correction, and NOT on whether the frequencies are sent to the speaker. So we set correction=none below the recommended crossover, but you are still welcome to set a lower crossover point if you wish.

I hope this helps clear this up.

Regards,
Chris

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post #828 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plouie10 View Post

Thanks Chris,
After finding that phase control and doing some reading, I put it back to 0. Do I need to re-do the calibration? Also, on the back of the sub, where should the cutoff frequency be at? Since the Denon 2808ci sets the LFE lowpass filter to 80Hz, I should manually change this to 120Hz? Sorry for all the questions, but this is all new to me. Since listening to the new HBR codecs, the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD discs have new life and I'm really enjoying them all over again.

Phil

Hi Phil,

Yes, you should recalibrate after setting it the phase to 0°. The difference may be small, but it will be more correct. On the back of the sub, set the frequency to the highest possible point so that it minimizes its interference with the bass management in the AVR.

Cheers,
Chris

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post #829 of 72805 Old 01-21-2008, 09:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post

I'm hoping Chris may be able to help me.

Currently my sub is powered with an outboard Parapix Sub amp (2 x 50w). The sub has 2 independant drivers which use each chanel. Prior to the amp the signal from the pre-out going through a Behringer DSP1124P. This is a two channel 24 filter parametric equalizer using a high speed DSP with infinitly variable Q, +/- Gain, etc. Checking the response with an RTA I got my sub in-room response virtually flat (don't know what it does to the phasing).

I am thinking of changing the 2 x 50w Parapix for a 2 x 150w amp (which doesn't have a Low Pass Filter). My main question is should I take the Behringer equalizer out of the circuit and allow Audyssey (MultiEQ XT) to do all the sub EQing, or should I have the Behringer do most of the hard work leaving Audyssey to clean up what's left?

First, I want to make sure you are properly checking the response with the RTA. Hopefully, you are doing so by taking several measurements and then averaging them. Taking a single point measurement is not meaningful except for those of us with a head the size of the microphone capsule.

It's difficult to answer your question without knowing the exact problems in your room. I would personally first start without additional DSP in the path as it adds delay and also another A/D stage. If you feel that more correction is needed, then I would first run the Behringer and then MultEQ XT. Be prepared to see longer distances reported for the sub as MultEQ tries to correct for the additional delay in the DSP.

Regards,
Chris

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post #830 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 05:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

First, I want to make sure you are properly checking the response with the RTA. Hopefully, you are doing so by taking several measurements and then averaging them. Taking a single point measurement is not meaningful except for those of us with a head the size of the microphone capsule.

It's difficult to answer your question without knowing the exact problems in your room. I would personally first start without additional DSP in the path as it adds delay and also another A/D stage. If you feel that more correction is needed, then I would first run the Behringer and then MultEQ XT. Be prepared to see longer distances reported for the sub as MultEQ tries to correct for the additional delay in the DSP.

Regards,
Chris

Thanks Chris
I did the Behringer EQing 4 or 5 years ago. My testing setup was with EFT v4 and the Radio Shack SPL Meter. The EFT has a built in calibration adjustment for the Radio Shack meter. I only took measurements at the ear level of my primary listening position (didn't know any better).
Also, before I even tried to EQ, I did many tests moving the sub on a grid of positions until I found the best position, then applied EQing. My ear isn't good enough to trust it, so I relied totally on instruments to show me what the best setup was.

In spite of all that, I will take your advice and leave the Behringer out and let MultiEQ XT do it's thing. If I don't like it, then maybe I will revert to using the Behringer (if I can remember how to use it) and run the MultiEQ afterwards.
Hopefully it won't come to that.

Regards
John
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post #831 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Note that this limit is on the correction, and NOT on whether the frequencies are sent to the speaker. So we set correction=none below the recommended crossover, but you are still welcome to set a lower crossover point if you wish.

So it may be that Audyssey, in example, finds the center speaker not able to go lower than 80 hz, but the AVR judges it large, so it sends the frequencies below 80Hz to the speaker.
At this point, the frequencies below 80Hz sent to the center speaker are not controlled by Audyssey so they can mess up all the correction made by Audyssey for the speakers able to go lower than 80hz!!!

This is weird!!!

Because we do not know actually at which frequency and for which speaker Audyssey sets the correction limit we do not know how to adjust the xover in order to achieve the maximun output for our speakers. All what we can do is to relay on the speaker's manufacturer data, which can be really optimistics, wrong, changed due to usage or break in, positioning and so on.

Now I understand why you suggest to set the speakers limit to 80Hz or around that, and let the sub handle the frequencies below that.

I wonder why Audyssey does not display the frequency correction limit found during setup.

If the AVR manufacturer do not want Audyssey to do the bass management, ok, but they should let you give the information found by Audyssey on the speakers ability to to handle certain frequencies!!!

Am I wrong?

ciao
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post #832 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

So it may be that Audyssey, in example, finds the center speaker not able to go lower than 80 hz, but the AVR judges it large, so it sends the frequencies below 80Hz to the speaker.
At this point, the frequencies below 80Hz sent to the center speaker are not controlled by Audyssey so they can mess up all the correction made by Audyssey for the speakers able to go lower than 80hz!!!

This is weird!!!

Because we do not know actually at which frequency and for which speaker Audyssey sets the correction limit we do not know how to adjust the xover in order to achieve the maximun output for our speakers. All what we can do is to relay on the speaker's manufacturer data, which can be really optimistics, wrong, changed due to usage or break in, positioning and so on.

Now I understand why you suggest to set the speakers limit to 80Hz or around that, and let the sub handle the frequencies below that.

I wonder why Audyssey does not display the frequency correction limit found during setup.

If the AVR manufacturer do not want Audyssey to do the bass management, ok, but they should let you give the information found by Audyssey on the speakers ability to to handle certain frequencies!!!

Am I wrong?

ciao

In a receiver (like Onkyo) where they have decided to use 80 Hz as the Large-Small boundary, if Audyssey finds a speaker not able to go below 80 Hz then it will pass that info to the receiver and it will set the speaker to Small. The receiver does not decide on its own, it uses the Audyssey measurement to decide. However the decision on where to draw the line between Large and Small was made in advance and is a fixed number.

Some manufacturers show more information than others in their GUI. For example, Denon shows the filters and the parameters (crossover, delay, level) that Audyssey found. Others use them internally, but do now show all of them. Again, these are design choices made by each brand.

Regards,
Chris

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post #833 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by pondria
Can someone clarify this ?
When Audyssesy comes up with mix of LARGE and SMALL speakers, the algorithm will process the full range of frequencies for LARGE speakers while it will go only down to the Crossover Freq for SMALL speakers ?


Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Yes, that is correct.

Chris

Chris, let's be specific, just so I don't spew any more misinformation - are you saying here that if Audyssey finds a crossover frequency of 60 Hz (and an Onkyo AVR will then classify this speaker as "LARGE"), Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the "full range of frequencies" of 20Hz-20kHz, and not limit itself to correcting only down to 60 Hz?
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post #834 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 09:13 AM
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Chris, let's be specific, just so I don't spew any more misinformation - are you saying here that if Audyssey finds a crossover frequency of 60 Hz (and an Onkyo AVR will then classify this speaker as "LARGE"), Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the "full range of frequencies" of 20Hz-20kHz, and not limit itself to correcting only down to 60 Hz?

These sorts of questions are important to me also. My 605 persistently reports all my speakers as "large" after Audyssey calibration; but I know that they are physically not large, and have mfg's -3dB points of 50-70 Hz.
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post #835 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

In a receiver (like Onkyo) where they have decided to use 80 Hz as the Large-Small boundary, if Audyssey finds a speaker not able to go below 80 Hz then it will pass that info to the receiver and it will set the speaker to Small. The receiver does not decide on its own, it uses the Audyssey measurement to decide. However the decision on where to draw the line between Large and Small was made in advance and is a fixed number.

First of all thanks for your continuos support. Great!!!

I have done calibration again, and the Onkyo classified the front center and surround as full band.

Following your information, I have set the xover as per the manufacturer data which are:
Front 50Hz
Center 92Hz
Surround 112 Hz.

I do not understand what LPF of LFE means, it is set to 90Hz.

After doing that, I got a much better sound, less fatiguing, more precise, and the bass coming from the sub are now more efficient. I do not know if these changes are due to the better setting of the xover, but I feel the sound much better however!!

Thanks again. Without your support I would have never be able to really set up correctly the AVR which translates in wasting of money and underestimate your Multi EQ which is instead very worthfull.

Ciao

enzo
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post #836 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 12:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Chris, let's be specific, just so I don't spew any more misinformation - are you saying here that if Audyssey finds a crossover frequency of 60 Hz (and an Onkyo AVR will then classify this speaker as "LARGE"), Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the "full range of frequencies" of 20Hz-20kHz, and not limit itself to correcting only down to 60 Hz?

Yes, let's be even more specific. For example, let's use the Onkyo 805 which uses 80Hz for the frequency that divides large and small.

1) If Audyssey determines a crossover frequency of 60Hz for a speaker, which then results in the 805 classifying the speaker as "Large", Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the full range of frequencies from 20Hz-20kHz (this question is taken directly from the post by fyzziks above). And therefore, in this case, if the user manually lowers the crossover frequency to 40Hz, the frequency range from 40Hz-60Hz will still be a range which is corrected by Audyssey.

2) If Audyssey determines a crossover frequency of 90Hz for a speaker, which then results in the 805 classifying the speaker as "Small", Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the range of frequencies from 90Hz-20kHz. And therefore, in this case, if the user manually lowers the crossover frequency to 70Hz, the frequency range from 70Hz-90Hz will end up being a range which is NOT corrected by Audyssey. As I said in a previous question, if this is the case, this would be reason enough for me to never manually lower a crossover frequency determined by Audyssey for a speaker that was classified as "Small".

Thanks.

EDIT - Point #1 above is INCORRECT. Please see post #839 by Chris below
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post #837 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by xxxxxx View Post

Yes, let's be even more specific. For example, let's use the Onkyo 805 which uses 80Hz for the frequency that divides large and small.

1) If Audyssey determines a crossover frequency of 60Hz for a speaker, which then results in the 805 classifying the speaker as "Large", Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the full range of frequencies from 20Hz-20kHz (this question is taken directly from the post by fyzziks above). And therefore, in this case, if the user manually lowers the crossover frequency to 40Hz, the frequency range from 40Hz-60Hz will still be a range which is corrected by Audyssey.

2) If Audyssey determines a crossover frequency of 90Hz for a speaker, which then results in the 805 classifying the speaker as "Small", Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the range of frequencies from 90Hz-20kHz. And therefore, in this case, if the user manually lowers the crossover frequency to 70Hz, the frequency range from 70Hz-90Hz will end up being a range which is NOT corrected by Audyssey. As I said in a previous question, if this is the case, this would be reason enough for me to never manually lower a crossover frequency determined by Audyssey for a speaker that was classified as "Small".

Thanks.

And this is deleting all what i understood till now.

How is it possible that if my speakers are rated 92Hz-22KHz Audyssey sets them as Full Band?

I am going to get crazy on this matter!!

Ciao
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post #838 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

And this is deleting all what i understood till now.

How is it possible that if my speakers are rated 92Hz-22KHz Audyssey sets them as Full Band?

I am going to get crazy on this matter!!

Ciao

It doesn't say that. If the bottom roll-off is above 80Hz then the speaker is SMALL and is treated accordingly.
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post #839 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

Chris, let's be specific, just so I don't spew any more misinformation - are you saying here that if Audyssey finds a crossover frequency of 60 Hz (and an Onkyo AVR will then classify this speaker as "LARGE"), Audyssey will build a filter to correct the response of that speaker over the "full range of frequencies" of 20Hz-20kHz, and not limit itself to correcting only down to 60 Hz?


Wow, I didn't realize that this would cause such a flurry of activity. OK, I have to admit that my earlier post when I said "full range of frequencies" could be interpreted two different ways. What I meant by that was: "from the -3 dB point that the speaker is found to be capable of to 20 kHz".

Let me be clear: MultEQ will never force correction below what it finds to be the roll-off point of the speaker. Doing so would end up damaging speakers. We just stop correcting below that point and let the speaker do what it does on its own.

Now, the crossover point can be changed by the user. If you move it above the point found by MultEQ then you are still in the correction range of MultEQ. If you move it below the point found by MultEQ then you will get whatever sound the speaker is producing in the room, but without any MultEQ correction. We simply can not correct below that point as it would be pure boosting to overcome the natural roll-off of the speaker.

Best,
Chris

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post #840 of 72805 Old 01-22-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

And this is deleting all what i understood till now.

How is it possible that if my speakers are rated 92Hz-22KHz Audyssey sets them as Full Band?

I am going to get crazy on this matter!!

Ciao

Enzo,

A speaker rated for 92 Hz will easily produce below 80 Hz, especially when it is placed near a wall. So, very likely that is what is happening and MultEQ reports it as Large to the receiver.

Best,
Chris

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