"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > "Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779)
thehun's Avatar thehun 05:35 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Yes, Alpine is the first to come out with products that have MultEQ for cars. We are about to list them as soon as they are actually shipping.

Regards,
Chris

My dealer already had some in his showroom over a month ago, yes they were Alpines I believe.

AV Doogie's Avatar AV Doogie 05:36 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

No, you can't calibrate the mic to do that because the loudness curves change with playback level. The mic is calibrated to match a reference B&K 1/4" pressure field microphone.

Thank you for participating in discussions on these forums.

You indicate that the microphone input is calibrated for the supplied unit, but will a higher quality microphone (those supplied with Lexicon MC12, AKG C98) provide a benefit or problems with proper calibration.
thehun's Avatar thehun 05:40 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:


This is what went into the development of Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

Is the Dynamic EQ available with the pro kit or is that a brand new feature with future products?
John Moschella's Avatar John Moschella 06:54 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi John,

What speakers do you have? 4-6 dB boost at 2 kHz would indicate a huge dip at the crossover frequency between midrange and tweeter. One cause for that is that the speakers have directivity issues that cause a big falloff even slightly off-axis. So, trying a tighter area is the right thing to do. The other problem could be a blown tweeter, but that would show up as a boost over a larger range above 2 kHz. You can sample in front and behind the listening area if you have that luxury. Most typical setups have the couch up against the back wall, so that's why the manual suggests that.

Regards,
Chris

Hi Chris,

Thanks for the feedback. The speakers are Source Technologies, it is a well made speaker. But you clued me in to what could be wrong. Currently I have the R/L speakers toed in to the listening spot. Its pretty significant because the set up is roughly an equilateral triangle. So I will adjust this angle and give it another shot. After thinking about it, the toe in works in two-channel arrangements but is probably not needed with a center speaker.
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 11:10 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekari View Post

I have a question for Chris (Audyssey).

I have an Onkyo 705 with MultiXT EQ. I recently went out (today) and purchased two MFW-15 subwoofers that are daisy-chained for the time being.

i.e. Receiver sub-out to Behringer EQ in to Line-In on sub 1, Line-Out on sub 1 to Line-In on sub 2.

How do I run Audyssey so that each subwoofer is set up properly with regards to phase, or is that something I will have to somehow adjust on my own, and *then* run Audyssey?

Each Sub has its own phase control, from 0-180 variable I believe.

Since the 705 does not allow individual control of the delay in multiple subs, you have to treat them as "one". My recommendation would be to go out of the 705 to the Behringer and then y-cord out of the Behringer into each sub. I just don't know what line-in to line-out does in the subs...

Then, use the Behringer to do what you need to do for the combined subs. I would not mess with the phase control on the subs.

After that run MultEQ so that it sees the Behringer and accounts for the delay it's introducing.

You could also try a simpler approach without the Behringer and y-cord from the sub out of the 705 to each sub and let MultEQ XT do its thing on the sub. If you can place the subs at approximately equal distance to the main listening position you will be better off.

Chris
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 11:13 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by AV Doogie View Post

Thank you for participating in discussions on these forums.

You indicate that the microphone input is calibrated for the supplied unit, but will a higher quality microphone (those supplied with Lexicon MC12, AKG C98) provide a benefit or problems with proper calibration.

Any other mic used will be a problem because the internal mic calibration curve is designed for the mic supplied with the unit. So, if you use another mic it will see the wrong cal curve.

Chris
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 11:15 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by thehun View Post

Is the Dynamic EQ available with the pro kit or is that a brand new feature with future products?

Dynamic EQ is currently only available on the Denon 3808 and 4308 and soon on the 5308 and AVP1-HD. In these models it is only turned on after a pro installation is performed. More products with Dynamic EQ will be available in 2008.

Chris
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 11:19 PM 01-28-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by dvdguru View Post

Hey Chris, I'm using the Integra dtc9.8 and have it set to have the 2 rear back surrounds enabled.

Hi,

I don't have the manual handy to look this up. Does MultEQ ping each of the 4 surround speakers separately or does it ping the two surrounds on each side as "one" speaker? If they are pinged separately, then they all need to be set to 75 dB SPL, but if there is a mode that combines them on each side, then the pair together should read 75 dB SPL.

Chris
dvdguru's Avatar dvdguru 07:12 AM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi,

I don't have the manual handy to look this up. Does MultEQ ping each of the 4 surround speakers separately or does it ping the two surrounds on each side as "one" speaker? If they are pinged separately, then they all need to be set to 75 dB SPL, but if there is a mode that combines them on each side, then the pair together should read 75 dB SPL.

Chris

It pings them separately. Ok, will set to 75db. I was just afraid that would mess up the audyssey timing, etc. thanks for the info! As far as the sub, I would imagine I just bump it up 3 db if all 3 fronts need to be bumped 3 db. (hopefully this is correct)
Heffe156's Avatar Heffe156 07:40 AM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post

After running Audyssey it displays "calculating...". This takes several minutes to complete. Then the screen displays a list with "save" at the top, followed by options to review several Audyssey settings including the equalizer settings. You can't change any of these settings here. The option is to review only. NB You must select "Save" if you want to save the Audyssey settings that Audyssey has just set up.

However, if you want to, in your 805 setup menu, you can go to "Speaker Setup"; then "Speaker Settings". Here are listed the equaliser settings (the Xover points) for each speaker. This is where you can manually change them if you wish. In this menu section you can also change some of the other Audyssey settings, eg volume trims for each speaker.

Hello I have the 705 and just ran Audyssey. As you stated above, can I go into the speaker settings, and change the front speakers to small, and will this stay on small or does the amp revert back to the setting that Audyssey calculated. The setting that Audyssey chose was Full Range. My front speakers are 89DB, 40-22Khz.
hmcbean's Avatar hmcbean 09:07 AM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Since the 705 does not allow individual control of the delay in multiple subs, you have to treat them as "one". My recommendation would be to go out of the 705 to the Behringer and then y-cord out of the Behringer into each sub. I just don't know what line-in to line-out does in the subs...

Then, use the Behringer to do what you need to do for the combined subs. I would not mess with the phase control on the subs.

After that run MultEQ so that it sees the Behringer and accounts for the delay it's introducing.

You could also try a simpler approach without the Behringer and y-cord from the sub out of the 705 to each sub and let MultEQ XT do its thing on the sub. If you can place the subs at approximately equal distance to the main listening position you will be better off.

Chris

Chris, i have a question. I am expecting DHL with my second Revel B15 Sub any minute now, so I will be using my Integra 9.8 with two Revel B15 subs. Unfortunately i can not put both subs equal distance from the main listening area because of the shape of my family room which is "L" shaped. Currently i have one sub on the side wall close to the front wall and was planning on putting the second sub on the same side wall beside the listening position. If i "Y" out of the 9.8 to each sub, and run Audyssey with both subs playing how is Audyssey going to set proper distance with both subs apart? Will I be better off placing the subs together either on the side wall towards the front of the room or on the same side wall beside listening position. I only have these two options for sub placement as there is no other place to put them in my room. I also have Line out on the B15 that i could use. Would I be better off using the line out on the first sub to the second sub instead of a "Y" adapter out of the 9.8?

My room is very difficult to produce bass as it's over 10,000 cf with very high ceilings and rooms that open into others. My family room only has one side wall, the other side is the kitchen. I have attached images so you can see what my room looks like.

Suggestions from others also appreciated. Thanks again.












Trekari's Avatar Trekari 09:09 AM 01-29-2008
Isn't that something you could simply DO, turn off the amp, turn it back on and find out for yourself within the span of 60 seconds?...
Kal Rubinson's Avatar Kal Rubinson 10:30 AM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcbean View Post

Chris, i have a question. I am expecting DHL with my second Revel B15 Sub any minute now, so I will be using my Integra 9.8 with two Revel B15 subs. Unfortunately i can not put both subs equal distance from the main listening area because of the shape of my family room which is "L" shaped. Currently i have one sub on the side wall close to the front wall and was planning on putting the second sub on the same side wall beside the listening position. If i "Y" out of the 9.8 to each sub, and run Audyssey with both subs playing how is Audyssey going to set proper distance with both subs apart? Will I be better off placing the subs together either on the side wall towards the front of the room or on the same side wall beside listening position. I only have these two options for sub placement as there is no other place to put them in my room. I also have Line out on the B15 that i could use. Would I be better off using the line out on the first sub to the second sub instead of a "Y" adapter out of the 9.8?

My room is very difficult to produce bass as it's over 10,000 cf with very high ceilings and rooms that open into others. My family room only has one side wall, the other side is the kitchen. I have attached images so you can see what my room looks like.

Suggestions from others also appreciated. Thanks again.

That is a gorgeous room but all the marble, hardwood, leather and flat wall simply cry out for acoustical treatment. Audyssey will help but I really doubt that all your investment in high-end equipment is giving you an adequate return.
Kevin12586's Avatar Kevin12586 11:05 AM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffe156 View Post

Hello I have the 705 and just ran Audyssey. As you stated above, can I go into the speaker settings, and change the front speakers to small, and will this stay on small or does the amp revert back to the setting that Audyssey calculated. The setting that Audyssey chose was Full Range. My front speakers are 89DB, 40-22Khz.

I have a Denon 2807 with Audyssey and it remembers if you change your speakers from small to large or vice versa.
mskreis's Avatar mskreis 11:22 AM 01-29-2008
I have a Denon 4308 and have difficulty understanding dialog when using Audyssey. A solution to this issue was to increase the gain on the center channel in the 1000-2000 range via Manual EQ. Is there a way to keep my modifications and use Audyssey?
dvdguru's Avatar dvdguru 11:24 AM 01-29-2008
Make sure the center channel is aimed directly at your ears and if not angle it up or down. Don't have it in an entertainment center, don't have it close to the wall if the center is rear ported.
thiruvil's Avatar thiruvil 12:11 PM 01-29-2008
Does anyone know if you have THX BGC (Boundary Gain Compression) On before audyssey calibration if it affects it? I think it sounds much better with it on as it tightens the bass on the low end.
enzo-ita's Avatar enzo-ita 12:27 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mskreis View Post

I have a Denon 4308 and have difficulty understanding dialog when using Audyssey. A solution to this issue was to increase the gain on the center channel in the 1000-2000 range via Manual EQ. Is there a way to keep my modifications and use Audyssey?

When you use the manual EQ, you switch off the Audyssey EQ. At least this is what I understodd till now on the Onkyo. I bet is the same with Denon.

Ciao
enzo-ita's Avatar enzo-ita 12:30 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by thiruvil View Post

Does anyone know if you have THX BGC (Boundary Gain Compression) On before audyssey calibration if it affects it? I think it sounds much better with it on as it tightens the bass on the low end.

Again, as far as i understood, none of the setting is taken into consideration by Audyssey while running the setup.
I was suggested by Chris to turn off the BGC but I do not know if the suggestion was a general rule, or something directed to my room setting.

ciao
Nordo's Avatar Nordo 02:47 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heffe156 View Post

Hello I have the 705 and just ran Audyssey. As you stated above, can I go into the speaker settings, and change the front speakers to small, and will this stay on small or does the amp revert back to the setting that Audyssey calculated. The setting that Audyssey chose was Full Range. My front speakers are 89DB, 40-22Khz.

If set to small, Audyssey will send info that it considers the fronts can't handle to the sub. This setting will remain on, and all other Audyssey settings will remain in effect.
BTW, Audyssey tests the speakers, but it's your receiver which sets the criteria as to whether Audyssey should treat a speaker as Small or Full Range.
mskreis's Avatar mskreis 04:59 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

When you use the manual EQ, you switch off the Audyssey EQ. At least this is what I understodd till now on the Onkyo. I bet is the same with Denon.

Ciao

Yes, that is correct. What I would like to do is utilize Audyssey but retain my modifications.
fyzziks's Avatar fyzziks 05:13 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mskreis View Post

Yes, that is correct. What I would like to do is utilize Audyssey but retain my modifications.

That can't be done. You can change crossover frequency, level, and delay, but you can't alter the frequency balance of the Audyssey filters.

Your alternatives are:
1) Go with no Audyssey and use the manual equalizer as you are now.
2) Rerun Audyssey with altered speaker positions and/or altered audyssey mic positions or orientation, and see if that gets you more what you want.
3) Go back to using Audyssey as you already have it set up, but manipulate the tone controls to get more what you want. Of course, that won't affect just the center speaker.
vaha's Avatar vaha 07:37 PM 01-29-2008
After running audyssey on my onkyo 905 the bass was almost nonexistent when listening to CDs. I have NHT speakers and here are the settings that it came up with.
vaha's Avatar vaha 07:55 PM 01-29-2008
After running audyssey on my onkyo 905 the bass was almost nonexistent when listening to CDs. I have NHT speakers and here are the settings that it came up with.

Sub yes
Front full band
Center 40Hz
Surround 70Hz
Surround back 2ch
LPF of LEF 80Hz(THX)
Double bass On

I have read all of the post in this thread and I have a powered sub that the crossover is set to 125 and the volume is open to about 1/3 of the way. Any suggestions on how to get more bass?

Sorry about the double post wrong button to much beer.
mskreis's Avatar mskreis 08:32 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

That can't be done. You can change crossover frequency, level, and delay, but you can't alter the frequency balance of the Audyssey filters.

Your alternatives are:
1) Go with no Audyssey and use the manual equalizer as you are now.
2) Rerun Audyssey with altered speaker positions and/or altered audyssey mic positions or orientation, and see if that gets you more what you want.
3) Go back to using Audyssey as you already have it set up, but manipulate the tone controls to get more what you want. Of course, that won't affect just the center speaker.

Thanks for the suggestions - I'll play with the tone controls a bit. What general changes will improve dialog clarity?
mikeny's Avatar mikeny 08:56 PM 01-29-2008
I have run Audyssey a bunch of times in the last week on the 605. It has reported inconsistent results over these times. It's reported my surround back as 80, then full range, then 60. It always calls my fronts full range and center 100. The subwoofer distance is always reported to be 5 feet but then later when I go into the distances it says 16 feet which is closer to true.

I tried calibrating the levels according the radio shack meter earlier this afternoon from the center listening position to 75 db based on speaker level tones but the results seemed too high.

Fronts at about 8, center at 7, surrounds at 12. I couldn't get the sub to get close to 75db from center position. It really seemed to high. When I played some mp3, I was concerned that I was pushing it so I reran audyssey.

This time, I got -3 for the fronts, and center, 0 for surround back, +4 for surround right, +2 for surround left and +2 for the subwoofer.



edit: Here are the latest results:As I said above, I made some modifications.

Review SP Config

Subwoofer: Yes
Front: Full Band
Center: 100 Hx
Surround: 80 Hz
Surr Back 60 Hz
Surr Back Ch: 1 ch

Review Sp Distance:

Front: 12 feet
Center: 13 feet
Surr right: 6 feet
Surr back: 3 feet
Surr left: 5 feet
Subwoofer: 16 feet

Review Sp level

Left: -3
Center -3
Right -3
Surr Right: +4
Surr Back: 0
Surr Left: +2
Subwoofer: +2


I would think this is more in line but again, it's different from my initial findings last week.

The speakers are Klipsch F1, C1, Onkyo HTS770 surrounds/sub. I changed the F1 to 60 Hz and set the surrounds back to 80 which it was found to be in the initial test last week.

I'm not dissatisfied entirely with the set-up. I really am a newbie coming from the HTIB system in full but I was just tinkering and I'm surprised at the inconsistency.
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 09:57 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeny View Post

I have run Audyssey a bunch of times in the last week on the 605. It has reported inconsistent results over these times. It's reported my surround back as 80, then full range, then 60. It always calls my fronts full range and center 100. The subwoofer distance is always reported to be 5 feet but then later when I go into the distances it says 16 feet which is closer to true.

I tried calibrating the levels according the radio shack meter earlier this afternoon from the center listening position to 75 db based on speaker level tones but the results seemed too high.

Fronts at about 8, center at 7, surrounds at 12. I couldn't get the sub to get close to 75db from center position. It really seemed to high. When I played some mp3, I was concerned that I was pushing it so I reran audyssey.

This time, I got -3 for the fronts, and center, 0 for surround back, +4 for surround right, +2 for surround left and +2 for the subwoofer.



edit: Here are the latest results:As I said above, I made some modifications.

Review SP Config

Subwoofer: Yes
Front: Full Band
Center: 100 Hx
Surround: 80 Hz
Surr Back 60 Hz
Surr Back Ch: 1 ch

Review Sp Distance:

Front: 12 feet
Center: 13 feet
Surr right: 6 feet
Surr back: 3 feet
Surr left: 5 feet
Subwoofer: 16 feet

Review Sp level

Left: -3
Center -3
Right -3
Surr Right: +4
Surr Back: 0
Surr Left: +2
Subwoofer: +2


I would think this is more in line but again, it's different from my initial findings last week.

The speakers are Klipsch F1, C1, Onkyo HTS770 surrounds/sub. I changed the F1 to 60 Hz and set the surrounds back to 80 which it was found to be in the initial test last week.

I'm not dissatisfied entirely with the set-up. I really am a newbie coming from the HTIB system in full but I was just tinkering and I'm surprised at the inconsistency.

Where are you positioning the mic for the first measurement (location, height, method of mounting)? How many measurements are you taking? Is there any background noise from a projector, HVAC, street noise etc.?

Regards,
Chris
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 10:23 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by hmcbean View Post

Chris, i have a question. I am expecting DHL with my second Revel B15 Sub any minute now, so I will be using my Integra 9.8 with two Revel B15 subs. Unfortunately i can not put both subs equal distance from the main listening area because of the shape of my family room which is "L" shaped. Currently i have one sub on the side wall close to the front wall and was planning on putting the second sub on the same side wall beside the listening position. If i "Y" out of the 9.8 to each sub, and run Audyssey with both subs playing how is Audyssey going to set proper distance with both subs apart? Will I be better off placing the subs together either on the side wall towards the front of the room or on the same side wall beside listening position. I only have these two options for sub placement as there is no other place to put them in my room. I also have Line out on the B15 that i could use. Would I be better off using the line out on the first sub to the second sub instead of a "Y" adapter out of the 9.8?

My room is very difficult to produce bass as it's over 10,000 cf with very high ceilings and rooms that open into others. My family room only has one side wall, the other side is the kitchen. I have attached images so you can see what my room looks like.

Suggestions from others also appreciated. Thanks again.

Hi,

The Integra does not give us the ability to set delays and levels separately for each sub. So, MultEQ can't ping them as individual subs. My first suggestion would be for you to place them along the front wall next to each of the Revel speakers. Y-out from the Integra, or line out of the first sub to the second sub should be identical.

There is evidence in the literature that shows a 90° sub placement (left and right of the listening position) to aid in envelopment, but that is not practical in your case. Research by Welti and others at Harman also recommends front center and back center as a preferred position, but I suspect that is also not practical in your room.

Rumor has it (hint, hint) that a certain company will be introducing a subwoofer EQ box that can properly set the delay and level for two subs when the receiver doesn't allow you to do that. But you didn't hear it from me.


Regards,
Chris
sdurani's Avatar sdurani 11:24 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Rumor has it (hint, hint) that a certain company will be introducing a subwoofer EQ box that can properly set the delay and level for two subs when the receiver doesn't allow you to do that. But you didn't hear it from me.

Are you talking about this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

If so, I'd given up, considering the date of the announcement. Hope it eventually becomes a reality.

Sanjay
audyssey's Avatar audyssey 11:30 PM 01-29-2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Are you talking about this:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793007

If so, I'd given up, considering the date of the announcement. Hope it eventually becomes a reality.

Sanjay

It will in this and other forms

Chris
Tags: Audyssey , Receivers Amplifiers , Kef Kht1005 2se 5 1 Subwoofer Satellite System With C4 Subwoofer Gloss White , 5 6 7 1 7 2 Or 8 1 8 2 One Or Two Subwoofer Compatible 16 Banana Post 2 Rca Speaker Wall Plate For H
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