"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 427 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #12781 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 09:53 AM
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Can someone who knows Audyssey help me out with this?

I use MultiEq XT

I want to co-locate two subs 12 feet away and run them as one full range sub.
Then I will put an MBM-12 2 feet behind my chair for mid bass BUT I want them to overlap to make the room response better in mid bass.

Should I:

A. Run audyssey with both hooked up? Won't that mess up the distance?
B. Run audyssey with the large subs hooked up and rely on phase to fix the delay?
c. Find an external time delay box, run audyssey with the further sub hooked up then add the distance it gives to the further sub to the actual line of sight distance and delay it by say 22-24ms?

Other suggestions or corrections welcome
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post #12782 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 09:59 AM
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For those of you who use the Audyssey Pro, have you experimented with varying numbers of measurement positions? I wonder whether it makes sense to do, say, 16 positions in the same area described in the guide on this forum, rather than just 8. I'm sure at some point you'll run into the law of diminishing returns. I suppose that a general sampling of the area is sufficient, but there must be a range of sample counts that is ideal. Otherwise, why offer up to 32 positions in the Pro version? Is there any advantage to using the 8 positions described in the guide, and then several right at the first measurement position or clustered very near the first measurement position? Is there a point at which you're likely to make things "worse?"

Chris, do you have any insight on this matter? Thanks.

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post #12783 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

For those of you who use the Audyssey Pro, have you experimented with varying numbers of measurement positions? I wonder whether it makes sense to do, say, 16 positions in the same area described in the guide on this forum, rather than just 8. I'm sure at some point you'll run into the law of diminishing returns. I suppose that a general sampling of the area is sufficient, but there must be a range of sample counts that is ideal. Otherwise, why offer up to 32 positions in the Pro version? Is there any advantage to using the 8 positions described in the guide, and then several right at the first measurement position or clustered very near the first measurement position? Is there a point at which you're likely to make things "worse?"

Chris, do you have any insight on this matter? Thanks.

That would be good to know - what is the guideline for measurement "density" with Audyssey Pro?
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post #12784 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Can someone who knows Audyssey help me out with this?

I use MultiEq XT

I want to co-locate two subs 12 feet away and run them as one full range sub.
Then I will put an MBM-12 2 feet behind my chair for mid bass BUT I want them to overlap to make the room response better in mid bass.

Should I:

A. Run audyssey with both hooked up? Won't that mess up the distance?
B. Run audyssey with the large subs hooked up and rely on phase to fix the delay?
c. Find an external time delay box, run audyssey with the further sub hooked up then add the distance it gives to the further sub to the actual line of sight distance and delay it by say 22-24ms?

Other suggestions or corrections welcome

Welcome to the multi-sub club; it is very exclusive around here.

It sounds like you read the setup guide, but then I have to ask myself: Why would he / she have a need to ask these questions?

I thought I covered setting up dual mono LFE subs pretty clearly, but let me know if it is confusing to you.

See the link in my signature.

Mark
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post #12785 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by simtrax View Post

...This time ill set the trim knob to 10-15%....

Don't mess with that yet. In the receiver's menu, set your front speakers to small without a set crossover value, and then try Step 1 of Audyssey. See what it does with the settings, and then go from there, adjusting the sub if necessary up or down, and then starting over again with the setup. I think your "full range" setting is what is messing up the outcome. The LFE signal is all the sub is getting except for the lower frequencies of your surrounds. In some movies, the LFE can be quite low, possibly 10Hz, and this may be what you encountered, overdriving your sub.
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post #12786 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Welcome to the multi-sub club; it is very exclusive around here.

It sounds like you read the setup guide, but then I have to ask myself: Why would he / she have a need to ask these questions?

I thought I covered setting up dual mono LFE subs pretty clearly, but let me know if it is confusing to you.

See the link in my signature.

Mark

Mark:

Thank you very much for the setup guide. I just installed my Integra DHC 9.9 and it helped tremendously in uderstanding what was going on. I only wish the Integra could show me what it has done to the frequency spectrum.

Rudy81
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post #12787 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post

Can someone who knows Audyssey help me out with this?

I use MultiEq XT

I want to co-locate two subs 12 feet away and run them as one full range sub.
Then I will put an MBM-12 2 feet behind my chair for mid bass BUT I want them to overlap to make the room response better in mid bass.

Should I:

A. Run audyssey with both hooked up? Won't that mess up the distance?
B. Run audyssey with the large subs hooked up and rely on phase to fix the delay?
c. Find an external time delay box, run audyssey with the further sub hooked up then add the distance it gives to the further sub to the actual line of sight distance and delay it by say 22-24ms?

Other suggestions or corrections welcome

I run two front wall subs and the MBM behind my chair as well.

On the advice of this forum, I set each sub individually to 72 db before running Audyssey. When I ran all three I registered about 76-77 db on the RS meter, which is as it should be.

The volume control on each sub is at about 1/3 or a bit less, the Phase of all is at 0, and the xover of each is bypassed.

It sounds great now. I did not set the main subs to a 50 hz xover as is recommended by Hsu when using the MBM but am running them full range. So all three subs have been configured by Audyssey and my low bass is better than ever.

I am sometimes tempted to increase the gain on the MBM (it is very accessible) for added impact but I just turn up the sub volume on my Onkyo 876, increasing all three at once for the increased output. I like that the Onkyo returns to the calibrated sub output once I turn it off/on again as you can adjust any speaker on the fly temporarily for that one listening session.

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post #12788 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

On the advice of this forum, I set each sub individually to 72 db before running Audyssey. When I ran all three I registered about 76-77 db on the RS meter, which is as it should be.

Hmmm...why does the Setup Guide say to set it to 80 dB? I don't remember the discussion you mention above...do you have a link?

I also do not remember why the Guide would is 80 dB. Would it have anything to do with the inaccuracy of the RS meter at low frequencies?

Should it be changed to 72 dB?

Thanks.

Mark
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post #12789 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shelly View Post

I run two front wall subs and the MBM behind my chair as well.

On the advice of this forum, I set each sub individually to 72 db before running Audyssey. When I ran all three I registered about 76-77 db on the RS meter, which is as it should be.

The volume control on each sub is at about 1/3 or a bit less, the Phase of all is at 0, and the xover of each is bypassed.

It sounds great now. I did not set the main subs to a 50 hz xover as is recommended by Hsu when using the MBM but am running them full range. So all three subs have been configured by Audyssey and my low bass is better than ever.

I am sometimes tempted to increase the gain on the MBM (it is very accessible) for added impact but I just turn up the sub volume on my Onkyo 876, increasing all three at once for the increased output. I like that the Onkyo returns to the calibrated sub output once I turn it off/on again as you can adjust any speaker on the fly temporarily for that one listening session.

You did not use an external time delay device? Interesting.

Oh well MBM's are all sold out! I had one and sold it before I ever opened it then was pissed at myself and even more now cause i can't get another.
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post #12790 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

Don't mess with that yet. In the receiver's menu, set your front speakers to small without a set crossover value, and then try Step 1 of Audyssey. See what it does with the settings, and then go from there, adjusting the sub if necessary up or down, and then starting over again with the setup. I think your "full range" setting is what is messing up the outcome. The LFE signal is all the sub is getting except for the lower frequencies of your surrounds. In some movies, the LFE can be quite low, possibly 10Hz, and this may be what you encountered, overdriving your sub.

Oops, I missed that part about the mains being set to full range. However, I'm virtually certain that Audyssey ignores any settings you may have in place before running the calibration. So it doesn't really matter. What matters is how they are set [i]after[i] the calibration is complete. Unless your front speakers are unusually capable, you'll want to set them to small. Actually, if you have a sub, you'll probably want to anyway, regardless of how well they perform on the bottom end.

This, however, would not cause the problem with your subs. If anything, setting the mains to Large after the calibration would make things better for the sub, relieving it of the bass encoded in the main channels. If the mains are set to large, the sub plays LFE. If the mains are set to small, the sub plays LFE plus any main channel information below the crossover point specified.

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post #12791 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Rudy81 View Post

I did some work so will start to answer my own question. In order to save everyone the trouble of coming up with ideas, I just ran the calibration again (3 points only since it's late). Before doing so, I made some changes that I thought would affect Audyssey's response to my system. First, since my speakers are so efficient, I moved the pre-outs from balanced to un-balanced. The balanced section is normally boosted by some 6db in systems I have run into that are not PURE balanced all the way. I assumed this would bring the speaker attenuation within the capability of the Audyssey instead of all my speakers being pegged at -12dB.

I lowered the gain on my sub, figuring this might reduce the bass used in the calculations.

After 3 measure points, once again distances were very precisely sensed. Attenuation was now within the possible for the processor. Biggest attenuation was for my mains, -11.4dB. All other speakers were less. Sub was +1.3....I overshot that one.

Results: Much more like what I expected. At low to medium sound levels, the sound is really awesome in stereo with Dynamic EQ. I didn't think I was going to like Audyssey messing with 2 ch. music, but I may have been wrong. Dynamic EQ produces THE best stereo sound at low to medium sound volumes. At high volume level, the sound is MUCH improved from my original complaint. Sound is not nearly as 'thin' and lifeless.

Plan tomorrow is to run the full 8 points and boost the sub gain just a hair. I am really looking forward to getting this unit properly set up.

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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

OK, I'll bite. What led you to believe that unrelated, at best, and questionable, at worst, system changes would give you the "results that .. (you) .. expected?

Impressionable members here need to hear your reasoning before they go off on a tangent and depart from the advice of the inventor(s).

Hi Jeff,

Just what did Rudy do to "go off on a tangent and depart from the advice of the inventor(s)"?

It seems that all he did was change from balanced to unbalanced connections and lower the gain on the sub. Neither of these system changes departs from Audyssey's advice and he did explain his reasoning for all us impressionable members.

Larry
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post #12792 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 01:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Hmmm...why does the Setup Guide say to set it to 80 dB?....

There was a discussion many pages back about equalizing a multi-sub setup. It was recommended to set each of my subs to 72dB using the internal test tones, and this would sum to 75dB with both driven, all work done prior to running Audyssey. My RS meter confirmed the 75dB. I later saw the 80dB reference in the Guide, and just never had the opportunity to comment on it. My subs were set to +3.5 by Audyssey, so the 80dB reference may have some merit, and somewhat equal to what it achieved for me, with consideration for the RS meter to be somewhat inaccurate for low frequencies.
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post #12793 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

There was a discussion many pages back about equalizing a multi-sub setup. It was recommended to set each of my subs to 72dB using the internal test tones, and this would sum to 75dB with both driven, all work done prior to running Audyssey. My RS meter confirmed the 75dB. I later saw the 80dB reference in the Guide, and just never had the opportunity to comment on it. My subs were set to +3.5 by Audyssey, so the 80dB reference may have some merit, and somewhat equal to what it achieved for me, with consideration for the RS meter to be somewhat inaccurate for low frequencies.

Using three subs (although the MBM only goes from 50 hz to 150 hz by design, it was said in this thread that the sum output would be about 76.5 which it was.

However, unlike yours, Audyssey set my subs to -8.5, despite the gain control on all of the subs to be between the second and third markings (this is actually less than the 1/3 I said in my earlier post). I am comfortable with this as there is lots of room to increase total sub gain from the Onkyo for more impact for movies. Music sounds great at -8.5, though.

Could my sub setting of -8.5 be the result of the MBM being so near to the mic positions?

Shelly

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post #12794 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 01:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by giomania View Post

Hmmm...why does the Setup Guide say to set it to 80 dB? I don't remember the discussion you mention above...do you have a link?

I also do not remember why the Guide would is 80 dB. Would it have anything to do with the inaccuracy of the RS meter at low frequencies?

Should it be changed to 72 dB?

Thanks.

Mark

Hi Mark,

Posting #12033

I'd be interested in Chris' take on this, but my vote is to change the 80 dB to 72 dB.

I don't think the precise value is all that important as long as they are the same for both subwoofers and in the "ball park", because Audyssey will adjust the trim so that the total level with both subwoofers playing to be 75 dB.

Larry
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post #12795 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Yes, that is correct. Previously written by Chris about Dynamic EQ:
The first thing that diminishes at lower volumes is our perception of bass,
so Dynamic EQ boosts it according to a set of curves that match human perception.
The second thing that changes is our perception of surround impression,
so Dynamic EQ boosts the surround level as you lower the volume.
Content has soft and loud parts that change moment by moment.
When the volume is turned down, the softer parts need more correction than the
louder parts because they fall on different perceptual listening curves.
So, Dynamic EQ monitors the content in each channel with a real time loudness meter and
makes continuous adjustments to preserve the correct balance.


hi,

That quote from Chris doesn't really address my question, not the way I understood anyway. It just mentions bass as a generality, not specific ranges of bass.
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post #12796 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alabama woody View Post

Thanks so much for the detailed explanation! I currently do not have a seperate sub. I have had my fronts hooked up both ways in the past, (with and without the rca to lfe) I think I will try connecting the fronts with the rca to the lfe on my receiver. It will be interesting to see if Audessy sets my fronts to large or small, I have read several post over the past year or so that reccomend setting the fronts to small, so all speakers sound more "even". What's your take on that? They go as far as to say to put them on small even if you have to change the setting Audessy chooses.

When playing music in direct or pure direct...........will that overide the small setting for the speakers and how the bass is handled? In the past I thought the speakers sounded better for music when hooked up with just speaker wire (12 guage) vs. being hooked up with rca's to the lfe on the receiver and the low level outputs of the receiver. I may be confused

I've got a 2807 and I'm not certain about the 2809 which I seem to remember is what you have. On the 2807 I seem to remember there's either a setting which maintains bass management when using Direct/Pure Direct or it's automatic. I don't listen to music using my HT system as I have a separate audio system in a different room.


Quote:


From what I understand when the front speakers are set to large they get the .1 bass as well as bass from all speakers set to small That is accomplished with just regular speaker wire. Are you saying that I will be missing some .1 if I don't use the rca's to the lfe connection on the receiver?

You won't miss out on any .1 material but Audyssey will treat the speaker including powered sub as a single speaker. If it sees the powered sub as separate, it gets corrected separately and Audyssey has higher correction resolution for the sub channel so you should get better results with Audyssey if you use the LFE connection.


Quote:


The more I think about this stuff the more questions I have. I guess I will have to run Audessy both ways (with and without rca's to the lfe on the receiver) and decide what I like the best. I wish I could store settings and A/B back and forth.

Anyways thanks for the help.

Yes, it's like that at first. Some things can be confusing and Denon's manuals are definitely not the easiest to understand in my experience. Eventually we either get to something we're happy with or give up. I think it's worth staying the distance to get a result you're happy with but expect some confusion along the way. Denon's manual managed to confuse me for quite a while.
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post #12797 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

1. How are you inputting an LFE test signal?

I create a .AC3 file that contains silence on all channels except for a pure sine wave in the LFE channel. Then I play it to my receiver via SPDIF.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

2. Have you tried doing the measurements from the sub/lfe output jack to eliminate any influence of the sub or the acoustics from the issue?

Measuring my signal is not the issue. I am just looking for a clear industry standard for the receiver's LFE LPF.
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post #12798 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jason978 View Post

Does Dynamic EQ boost different bass freq more than others? For example, does it boost the low bass freq more than the mid bass freqs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Yes, that is correct. Previously written by Chris about Dynamic EQ:
The first thing that diminishes at lower volumes is our perception of bass,
so Dynamic EQ boosts it according to a set of curves that match human perception.
The second thing that changes is our perception of surround impression,
so Dynamic EQ boosts the surround level as you lower the volume.
Content has soft and loud parts that change moment by moment.
When the volume is turned down, the softer parts need more correction than the
louder parts because they fall on different perceptual listening curves.
So, Dynamic EQ monitors the content in each channel with a real time loudness meter and
makes continuous adjustments to preserve the correct balance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jason978 View Post

hi,

That quote from Chris doesn't really address my question, not the way I understood anyway. It just mentions bass as a generality, not specific ranges of bass.

Hi Jason,

Here's a image of the famous Fletcher-Munson hearing curves.



Audyssey performed their own research and developed similar proprietary curves upon which they adjust the amplitude at varying frequencies and volumes.

As can be seen human hearing sensitivity varies with frequency and volume so Dynamic EQ will boost the low bass more than the mid bass. This is a fundamental characteristic of human hearing and any successful implimentation of Dynamic EQ is going to have to take this into consideration. Whereas the Audyssey curves may have different values, we can be fairly sure that they will follow the same basic characteristics, that is, they will be similar in shape to the curves shown above because that represents how humans hear.

Larry
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post #12799 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 02:58 PM
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I have previously complained a bit about Audyssey with music. I know it's not really meant for that. But yesterday I was listening to some 192kbps MP3s, and used the "Stereo" mode with only the fronts and sub (small, LFE) with regular Audyssey and DynamicEQ enabled and I was quite surprised how good it sounded. The MP3s (not a huge fan...) never sounded better, and even though the bass lacks the snap/dynamics the source CDs have, otherwise it was very very good. Not a bad tradeoff at all for the streamed MP3 convenience.
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post #12800 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aiken View Post

I've got a 2807 and I'm not certain about the 2809 which I seem to remember is what you have. On the 2807 I seem to remember there's either a setting which maintains bass management when using Direct/Pure Direct or it's automatic. I don't listen to music using my HT system as I have a separate audio system in a different room.




You won't miss out on any .1 material but Audyssey will treat the speaker including powered sub as a single speaker. If it sees the powered sub as separate, it gets corrected separately and Audyssey has higher correction resolution for the sub channel so you should get better results with Audyssey if you use the LFE connection.




Yes, it's like that at first. Some things can be confusing and Denon's manuals are definitely not the easiest to understand in my experience. Eventually we either get to something we're happy with or give up. I think it's worth staying the distance to get a result you're happy with but expect some confusion along the way. Denon's manual managed to confuse me for quite a while.


Thanks alot, I have settings for pure direct & direct (I have them set now as large with no sub). So I will check that again after I rerun Audessy when I hook back up the rca's.

I assume that for direct and pure direct that everyone 0's out the speaker distances. What about stereo mode? I guess if your wanting to run Audessy and dynamic eq.........that you would leave the distances set by Audessy. ??

I do have the 2809, it replaced a Five year old 3803.

Your right about the Denon manuals, that the best part about these forums, i had read alot about the receiver and how to set it up before I ever bought it. Denon's manual is worthless.

My family has took over the stereo for now, I may have to wait for a weekday to get some peace and much needed quiet for running Audessy.


Have a good weekend.
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post #12801 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 07:00 PM
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Guys, I am about to rerun the audyssey setup, hopefully this time getting everything right. I did read the guide multiple times over already, but I want to confirm a few things. I am using an integra dhc-9.9 in case someone is wondering.

1) I asked this before, but did not get a concrete answer. I have a 13' long couch in my theater. The left-most and right-most "seats" of the couch are directly in front of the main left and right speakers. I did read that all listening positions should be within the left and right speakers... Following the diagram, should I still ONLY take three positions where the seating area is of this 13' long couch? I imagined that diagram is for a standard couch, where each of the three positions would be much closer together than in my case. the measurement points would have to be at least 3.5" feet apart (3.5' from the main measuring position at the center)... OR in my case, should I have more listening positions dedicated to this seating area? Like 4 or something? I have 8 to use... If I should use more than 3 due to the length of my couch, how many should I use of the left over positions in front and behind me (as in the diagram)?

The first time I ran the setup, I obviously did the wrong thing because I did each section of my couch (5 sections) as a listening position. I did this because I always end up sitting on the far right corner of the couch, and wanted that to be inside the "zone". But problem is, is that it would create a 12' long zone with like 6' between three listening positions (if I should only use three on the actual couch)

2) When I ran the setup last time, it set my sub like 8 feet farther than it was, but my sub has no eq/phase control/lpf to mess with, just has a volume knob. I don't know whats causing it to be thrown off so bad. The sub is behind the couch btw, near the right surround. I am also using a really long cable (about 40' or so), but I can cut that down to like 10' if it makes a difference, but I dont think cable length should affect it? It also set the sub to something like -13 when the volume was at 50% at the sub, so should I lower the volume to like 1/3 when running it this time around?

3) Speaker placement: I have a 5.1 setup, but my surround are NOT to the left and right of my couch. They are sitting in the back corners of the room pointed at the couch. To give you an idea, the left surround is about 6 feet back, 6 feet to the left of the left-most seating position on my couch, and the right surround is about 6 feet back and 3.5 feet to the right of the right most listening position of my couch. I can move these speakers closer to the couch in terms of moving them straight forward, but I can't have them sit directly to the right and left (blocks a walkway if I do so). I can have them moved forward about 3 feet. Will this make a big difference? If i do move them forward, I should obviously not have them pointed diagnally anymore, and should have them pointed more toward each other, right?


Thanks guys for whatever feedback you can provide...
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post #12802 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

I have previously complained a bit about Audyssey with music. I know it's not really meant for that. But yesterday I was listening to some 192kbps MP3s, and used the "Stereo" mode with only the fronts and sub (small, LFE) with regular Audyssey and DynamicEQ enabled and I was quite surprised how good it sounded. The MP3s (not a huge fan...) never sounded better, and even though the bass lacks the snap/dynamics the source CDs have, otherwise it was very very good. Not a bad tradeoff at all for the streamed MP3 convenience.

Of course. Your room's acoustics have the same pernicious effects regardless of the number of active speakers.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #12803 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKfromLA View Post

Guys, I am about to rerun the audyssey setup, hopefully this time getting everything right. I did read the guide multiple times over already, but I want to confirm a few things. I am using an integra dhc-9.9 in case someone is wondering.

1) I asked this before, but did not get a concrete answer. I have a 13' long couch in my theater. The left-most and right-most "seats" of the couch are directly in front of the main left and right speakers. I did read that all listening positions should be within the left and right speakers... Following the diagram, should I still ONLY take three positions where the seating area is of this 13' long couch? I imagined that diagram is for a standard couch, where each of the three positions would be much closer together than in my case. the measurement points would have to be at least 3.5" feet apart (3.5' from the main measuring position at the center)... OR in my case, should I have more listening positions dedicated to this seating area? Like 4 or something? I have 8 to use... If I should use more than 3 due to the length of my couch, how many should I use of the left over positions in front and behind me (as in the diagram)?

The first time I ran the setup, I obviously did the wrong thing because I did each section of my couch (5 sections) as a listening position. I did this because I always end up sitting on the far right corner of the couch, and wanted that to be inside the "zone". But problem is, is that it would create a 12' long zone with like 6' between three listening positions (if I should only use three on the actual couch)

2) When I ran the setup last time, it set my sub like 8 feet farther than it was, but my sub has no eq/phase control/lpf to mess with, just has a volume knob. I don't know whats causing it to be thrown off so bad. The sub is behind the couch btw, near the right surround. I am also using a really long cable (about 40' or so), but I can cut that down to like 10' if it makes a difference, but I dont think cable length should affect it? It also set the sub to something like -13 when the volume was at 50% at the sub, so should I lower the volume to like 1/3 when running it this time around?

3) Speaker placement: I have a 5.1 setup, but my surround are NOT to the left and right of my couch. They are sitting in the back corners of the room pointed at the couch. To give you an idea, the left surround is about 6 feet back, 6 feet to the left of the left-most seating position on my couch, and the right surround is about 6 feet back and 3.5 feet to the right of the right most listening position of my couch. I can move these speakers closer to the couch in terms of moving them straight forward, but I can't have them sit directly to the right and left (blocks a walkway if I do so). I can have them moved forward about 3 feet. Will this make a big difference? If i do move them forward, I should obviously not have them pointed diagnally anymore, and should have them pointed more toward each other, right?


Thanks guys for whatever feedback you can provide...

I can only possibly help with your first question. The measurement positions do not correspond to seating positions. You do the first on the center, then the second and third 2 feet on either side, etc.

Chris (Audyssey) posted about this in the past few days.

I don't think there is any way for you to get proper sound sitting at the far end of your (amazingly) long couch.
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post #12804 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 08:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I can only possibly help with your first question. The measurement positions do not correspond to seating positions. You do the first on the center, then the second and third 2 feet on either side, etc.

Chris (Audyssey) posted about this in the past few days.

I don't think there is any way for you to get proper sound sitting at the far end of your (amazingly) long couch.

ok thanks, well then which format should I follow? The triangle as stated on the audyssey site, or the diagram posted in the setup guide? It says to move 2 feet to the left and right of the first position, in my case, could i just increase it to 3.5 feet so that more of the seating area is covered? I mean that would cover practically everything but the end listening positions of the couch, which sucks for me because I always sit at the ends because its a "U" shaped couch and I can lay comfortably. And when we have lots of people, they tend to sit on the arms of the U shape as well as the couch fills up, o well i guess!
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post #12805 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 09:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KKfromLA View Post

....... I always sit at the ends because its a "U" shaped couch and I can lay comfortably. And when we have lots of people, they tend to sit on the arms of the U shape as well as the couch fills up, o well i guess!

Follow the guide.

You can't expect to get the timing and balance of all speakers to reach both ends of a long couch at the same time and with the same quality. Measuring for the center area will give a good balance.

Now if you want the sweet spot somewhere else, you could try picking one end of the couch, but the other end would likely be noticeably messed up.

If you don't like either, I can only think you might consider ditching the long couch and getting two rows of shorter couches.
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post #12806 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 09:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkeeler10 View Post

For those of you who use the Audyssey Pro, have you experimented with varying numbers of measurement positions? I wonder whether it makes sense to do, say, 16 positions in the same area described in the guide on this forum, rather than just 8. I'm sure at some point you'll run into the law of diminishing returns. I suppose that a general sampling of the area is sufficient, but there must be a range of sample counts that is ideal. Otherwise, why offer up to 32 positions in the Pro version? Is there any advantage to using the 8 positions described in the guide, and then several right at the first measurement position or clustered very near the first measurement position? Is there a point at which you're likely to make things "worse?"

Chris, do you have any insight on this matter? Thanks.

It's very hard to predict improvements without knowing the problems in the room. From our own testing we find that it is common to find significant audible benefits when you go from 8 to 16 measurements. Only a few rooms that we tested showed major improvement past 16 measurements. More is always better, but beyond 16 it's likely to be only a little better.

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post #12807 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alabama woody View Post

Thanks alot, I have settings for pure direct & direct (I have them set now as large with no sub). So I will check that again after I rerun Audessy when I hook back up the rca's.

I assume that for direct and pure direct that everyone 0's out the speaker distances. What about stereo mode? I guess if your wanting to run Audessy and dynamic eq.........that you would leave the distances set by Audessy. ??

I do have the 2809, it replaced a Five year old 3803.

Your right about the Denon manuals, that the best part about these forums, i had read alot about the receiver and how to set it up before I ever bought it. Denon's manual is worthless.

My family has took over the stereo for now, I may have to wait for a weekday to get some peace and much needed quiet for running Audessy.


Have a good weekend.

Don't touch the distance settings. There's no need to. If you're only using 2 channels and running the speakers full range without the sub part hooked up separately, changing the distance settings won't produce an audible effect.

If you're using the sub hookup and bass management, the distances for the sub section and the speaker section will be different. That's because the active circuitry in the sub section causes an electronic delay and what Audyssey measures isn't actually distance but the delay between the receiver outputting the test tone and the microphone picking it up. The settings display converts that time delay to feet on the basis of 1 second = 1100' approximately. You want the time correction to fix the difference in sound arrival times for the speakers which have no active circuitry and virtually no delay, and the sub section with lots of active circuitry and a measurable decay.
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post #12808 of 76290 Old 03-13-2009, 11:39 PM
 
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I know this has been discussed before, but I need some reconfirmation.

On many Onkyo/Integra Receivers and Pre/Pro, there is an LFE (Low Pass Filter for the
LFE channel only) that you can adjust from: 80hz to 120hz.
The manual recommends to set it up at 80hz, if you have a subwoofer that is THX
certified.
Now, from my understanding (my two subs are not THX certified), before you run Audyssey, you should set it up at 120hz, right?
And after Audyssey is done, you should keep it at 120hz or not?

Are there many sountracks (DVD-Video, DVD-Audio, HD DVD or Blu-Ray movies) that contains up to 120hz information in the LFE (.1) channel only?

I keep reading conflicting reports on these subjects. I am trying to help myself, so I can be of good use also to others.

I will appreciate the best answers on this, so there is no more doubt.
I do need expert's opinions only, Chris being one of them.

_________
Bob


Extra note:

---> Also, after Audyssey routine has been performed, and the x-overs had been choosen, do you leave them alone, or are you allow to change them?

Plus, from what I've been reading (in particular from the very good informations at
Audioholics web site), is it recommended that you keep the differences between the different speaker's x-overs, to not more than 20hz or so.
Example: My main fronts are set to 60hz, and my side surround are set to 80hz, and my rear surround are set to 120hz, and finally my center channel is set to 100 hz.
This is only an example, but the difference between the lower and higher x-over is 60hz
(60hz and 120hz). From what I was told, it is not a very good way for the best integration with the subwoofer, because off the too wide difference of the various x-overs, not been within the range of 20hz or so. It creates anomalies, if the difference
is too wide.

If I cannot get sufficiant and definitive confirmations about these issues in an intelligent and proven manner, I will completely abstain myself from trying to help others.

It is very frustrating when you do believe some excellent experts on this, like Gene and others at Audioholics, plus experts at Audyssey and Anthem, that comes up with different recommendations. Sometimes, it just feel like my head is going to explode.
And to cool off, you just do your own preference, based on your own listening and on all these conflicting recommendations. I am sure that I am not the only one in that position.

Any expert opinions or recommendations, please, be my guest.
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post #12809 of 76290 Old 03-14-2009, 12:27 AM
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The setup guide says:

Quote:


2. If the calibrated distance is less than the physical distance, something is wrong, and the setup and calibration process should be re-accomplished.

Any guidance on what could be causing this or what to do about it?

I didn't receive any replies to my previous query on this subject in post 12718:

Quote:


... Has there been discussion of why Audyssey would/could report sub distances less than physical distance? It would seem that the only way a sub could do that would be to predict the future signal and send it out ahead of time, which is not possible with an analog realtime connection. But I find Audyssey reports my subs as being about 1 foot away when they really are about 7 feet away.

Audyssey consistently reports this lower-than-physical sub distance over all the measurements I've made, despite accurately reporting my other channel distances. I'm scratching my brain trying to figure out what's going on here, and the only guess I can come up with is an extraneous delay somewhere in the 3808ci's calibration process.
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post #12810 of 76290 Old 03-14-2009, 01:04 AM
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^ I can't help, but had the same problem with a 3808, even though all other speaker distances were always measured correctly.
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