"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 51 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1501 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomec View Post

Chris,
I have a Sound Equalizer and calibrated my room last night. After first measurement I got the message that all of my satellite speakers are out of phase! I checked the connection, everything is setup correctly. Any idea why I got that message? I finally ignored it and went on with the calibration.
Tomec

Hey Tomec was there a vast difference? Did you install yourself? Is it easy to do? I am thinking of buying the installer's kit and perform the installation myself.
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post #1502 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Front speakers are 7' apart. I am sitting 1.5' away from the right speaker.

I assume you mean you are 2' off the centerline, not that you are actually 1.5' from the rt front (that would really be near field listening). That primary position might be a little marginal, but it's probably still OK. I think you just try it and see.
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post #1503 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Just a thought here - 50 watts seems to be a very small amp to drive a sub. Depending on your room size, I can see how it would be very easy to overdrive and clip the amp and causing "snapping" and all kinds of disturbing sounds.

Problem is, the sub amps are only set to about 1/4 volume or less (to each register a SPL of 72 db, and 75db combined) before and after running Audyssey.
I want to upgrade the sub(s), but WAF is a big problem.
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post #1504 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post

I want to upgrade the sub(s), but WAF is a big problem.


Time to man-up.
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post #1505 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 02:23 PM
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Is the technology behind Audessey significantly different from that of Pioneer's MCACC? The reason I ask is that my new Denon receiver with Audessey sounds a lot better than the older Pioneer with MCACC that it replaced. I bought the receiver more for it's HDMI features than the audio side but I was pleasantly surprised how well it tamed my 20x15 room with a vaulted ceiling.
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post #1506 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew_B View Post

Is the technology behind Audessey significantly different from that of Pioneer's MCACC? The reason I ask is that my new Denon receiver with Audessey sounds a lot better than the older Pioneer with MCACC that it replaced. I bought the receiver more for it's HDMI features than the audio side but I was pleasantly surprised how well it tamed my 20x15 room with a vaulted ceiling.

Yes, significantly different. For a quick assessment, take a look at this post from the Onkyo 705 thread.
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post #1507 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 03:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomec View Post

Chris,
I have a Sound Equalizer and calibrated my room last night. After first measurement I got the message that all of my satellite speakers are out of phase! I checked the connection, everything is setup correctly. Any idea why I got that message? I finally ignored it and went on with the calibration.
Tomec

Please contact Audyssey tech support to make sure you have the right mic cal file to go with the version of the app that you are using (2.2 or 2.5).

Chris

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post #1508 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 03:43 PM
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On the questions about mic positions and single vs multiple seats:

These two should not be confused. Multiple measurements (many more than 3) are strongly recommended even if you only have one seat. MultEQ requires data from all around the listening position in order to feed the filter synthesis algorithms the proper information about the nature of the problems.

Having said that, it is not advantageous to wildly take measurements around the room as they will provide incorrect weighting about the acoustical problems.

The right approach is to start the first measurement in the main listening seat and then move 2' (approx) to the left and right of that. Then, repeat three more positions about 2' in front of the first three. The last two (if you have an 8 position system) should be taken about 1 ft away from the starting position and maybe slightly behind it depending on where the seat is relative to the back wall. In a pro calibration, we recommend between 8-16 measurements depending on the size of the room. The pattern should be about the same, however. The idea, as some have already described here, is to cover an oval around the main seat.

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post #1509 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 03:47 PM
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Chris, do any of the integrated Audyssey implementations allow for different mics (with corresponding calibration file) to be used?
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post #1510 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 03:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Chris, do any of the integrated Audyssey implementations allow for different mics (with corresponding calibration file) to be used?

No, because there is no way to import the calibration file into the receiver...

Chris

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post #1511 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nordo View Post

Problem is, the sub amps are only set to about 1/4 volume or less (to each register a SPL of 72 db, and 75db combined) before and after running Audyssey.
I want to upgrade the sub(s), but WAF is a big problem.

Hi Nordo,

I looked up the sub amps that you are using. It seems that they can be put in a mode that they call "bass boost". From the graphs I saw this is 12 dB of boost below 30 Hz. It seemed...unusual to have this "feature" as a fixed boost and I would imagine that it could cause problems. I wonder if it's on in either of your amps and what effect it has on the noise problem you are having.

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Chris

Does the Audyssey Sound Equalizer contain the benefits of Dynamic EQ, BassXT, and/or Dynamic Volume?

If not, will the Sound Equalizer be "upgradeable" to such features, or will a newer Sound Equalizer be required?

Thanks

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post #1513 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

Does the Audyssey Sound Equalizer contain the benefits of Dynamic EQ, BassXT, ad/or Dynamic Volume?

If not, will the Sound Equalizer be "upgradeable" to such features, or will a newer Sound Equalizer be required?

Thanks

Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume require knowledge of the volume control setting in order to operate correctly. The Sound Equalizer only receives audio signals and no control information from the pre-pro so it's not practical to add these technologies in that product.

BassXT is customized for each individual subwoofer. It is intended for systems in which the subwoofer is known in advance as it uses a very specific performance model for that subwoofer to provide extension in the frequency response. So, the answer is the same: it can't be integrated in the Sound Equalizer.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Dynamic EQ and Dynamic Volume require knowledge of the volume control setting in order to operate correctly. The Sound Equalizer only receives audio signals and no control information from the pre-pro so it's not practical to add these technologies in that product.

BassXT is customized for each individual subwoofer. It is intended for systems in which the subwoofer is known in advance as it uses a very specific performance model for that subwoofer to provide extension in the frequency response. So, the answer is the same: it can't be integrated in the Sound Equalizer.

Chris

Thanks Chris

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post #1515 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by fyzziks View Post

I assume you mean you are 2' off the centerline, not that you are actually 1.5' from the rt front (that would really be near field listening)

Imagine that. LOL! Back to my initial question, how many measurement should I take? Thanks for your help.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #1516 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Imagine that. LOL! Back to my initial question, how many measurement should I take? Thanks for your help.

Alex,

You should take 8 measurements following the pattern and spacing described in post 1508. Start with the off-center seat (so that the delays are calculated for that seat).

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How much "better" is the aurual end result with The Sound Equalizer vs the built-in MultiEQ XT (like in the onkyo 905). Is this the point of diminishiing return (at $2500 or so) or, to those that have heard both in otherwise identical systems and environments, is there a worthwhile wow factor? I know, one persons wow is anothers' ho-hum, but curious nonetheless.

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post #1518 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Alex,

You should take 8 measurements following the pattern and spacing described in post 1508. Start with the off-center seat (so that the delays are calculated for that seat).

Chris

Thanks Chris. I actually did exactly that a couple of times. The end result was a total collapse in imaging. But if I take only 3 measurement, the first at my LP, which is off axis, the second 2' to the right and the third 2' to the left, I get good imaging but still not great. What could I be doing wrong? My speaker are Mirage OM omnipolar speakers.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #1519 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Thanks Chris. I actually did exactly that a couple of times. The end result was a total collapse in imaging. But if I take only 3 measurement, the first at my LP, which is off axis, the second 2' to the right and the third 2' to the left, I get good imaging but still not great. What could I be doing wrong? My speaker are Mirage OM omnipolar speakers.

I do not know what Chris will say but I suspect that such very wide dispersion speakers are very tricky for Audyssey and most measurement systems. Many, many reflections of short latency.

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post #1520 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Thanks Chris. I actually did exactly that a couple of times. The end result was a total collapse in imaging. But if I take only 3 measurement, the first at my LP, which is off axis, the second 2' to the right and the third 2' to the left, I get good imaging but still not great. What could I be doing wrong? My speaker are Mirage OM omnipolar speakers.

Kal is exactly right. Omnipolars have to be treated a little differently than other speakers. My suggestion would be to tighten the measurement pattern. Imaging is going to suffer no matter what you do because your main seat is off-axis, but with a tighter pattern you will hopefully give a little more emphasis on the direct sound.

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I am having trouble with my audyssey set-up. Getting a center speaker "error" every time I run it. The receiver is an Onkyo 805, the mains are Klipsch RF-63's, center is a RF-64 and rear surrounds are Infinity IL-30's. Checked the wiring and its correct. It detected my old Infinity center speaker just fine. Any suggestions what might be causing this? Thanks.
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post #1522 of 76287 Old 02-21-2008, 11:39 PM
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Chris,

I have an Onkyo w/Audyssey on the way so my questions are no longer theoretical

When I have company, I move a futon in position behind the couch for a second row.

The room is fairly long (as you might remember from the picture I sent you once), so the second row is still 6' from the back wall.

What would you recommend as the 8 mike positions in this case?

I wouldn't want to shortchange the second row, as I often end up back there

Thanks

Noah
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post #1523 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Chris,

I have an Onkyo w/Audyssey on the way so my questions are no longer theoretical

When I have company, I move a futon in position behind the couch for a second row.

The room is fairly long (as you might remember from the picture I sent you once), so the second row is still 6' from the back wall.

What would you recommend as the 8 mike positions in this case?

I wouldn't want to shortchange the second row, as I often end up back there

Thanks

Noah
As you can only save one Audyssey setting at a time (and testing takes at least 1/2 hour), I would test the furniture setup you have when you do most of your listening and save those results.

If your going to have a big night with several friends, and have the time, then re-test with the futon in position.

Audyssey may find both furniture setups similar, but I don't think there is anyway of knowing all of the filter settings that Audyssey sets, so you can't compare the results of each setup.
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post #1524 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 03:59 AM
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Time to man-up.

Oooo, that sound scarey
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post #1525 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Nordo,

I looked up the sub amps that you are using. It seems that they can be put in a mode that they call "bass boost". From the graphs I saw this is 12 dB of boost below 30 Hz. It seemed...unusual to have this "feature" as a fixed boost and I would imagine that it could cause problems. I wonder if it's on in either of your amps and what effect it has on the noise problem you are having.

Chris

Yes, your right. I forgot all about that. The boost is controlled by a Jumper switch on the circuit board - although you can easily add a double throw switch mounted on the outside to replace the jumper. I don't have these amps mounted on the subs. They are each in their own cabinets. So I'll probably add the switches and do some A/B testing.

The pink noise from the Onkyo probably doesn't have enough low information in the boost area to show up what actually happens when the sub is given narrow bandwidth low frequency information such as you can get in dynamic sound tracks on some DVDs..

Thanks for pointing it out to me.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

How much "better" is the aurual end result with The Sound Equalizer vs the built-in MultiEQ XT (like in the onkyo 905). Is this the point of diminishiing return (at $2500 or so) or, to those that have heard both in otherwise identical systems and environments, is there a worthwhile wow factor? I know, one persons wow is anothers' ho-hum, but curious nonetheless.

Any thoughts on this would be appreciated..

Thanks

Thrang's Theater: Sony VPLVW-1100 - Bowers & Willkins 800/802/803/HTM2D D2 Diamond - JL Audio Fathom 113 - Lumagen 2143 - Marantz 8802 - Parasound Halo JC1/A51/A23 - Oppo 103 - Dune Smart B1/Synology 20TB NAS - DirecTV Genie - TiVo Roamio - Apple TV - PS4 • Audio: Sennheiser HD800 - Oppo HA1 - Kef LS50 - iTunes/Pure Music - iMac 5k • Last Watched: The Godfather - Last Listened: King Crimson "Discipline"
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post #1527 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 06:09 AM
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Just got my Denon 3808 and it sounds great after just running Audyssey the only thing i need to change is the speakers to small and confirm what crossovers I should use...I have the Monitor Audio Silver range with the fronts rated at 38hz, centre 60hz and rears at 60hz. Should I just cross them all over at 80hz or adjust per speaker? The sub is crossed over from 80hz which seems ok.
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post #1528 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 06:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz View Post

Chris,

I have an Onkyo w/Audyssey on the way so my questions are no longer theoretical

When I have company, I move a futon in position behind the couch for a second row.

The room is fairly long (as you might remember from the picture I sent you once), so the second row is still 6' from the back wall.

What would you recommend as the 8 mike positions in this case?

I wouldn't want to shortchange the second row, as I often end up back there

Thanks

Hi Noah,

Assuming that you don't want to remeasure when the futon is in place, I would suggest shifting the pattern I suggested in an earlier post so that is goes behind the front couch. I would take three measurements on each couch and two more between them and closer to the center.

Chris

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post #1529 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 06:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DBaker View Post

I am having trouble with my audyssey set-up. Getting a center speaker "error" every time I run it. The receiver is an Onkyo 805, the mains are Klipsch RF-63's, center is a RF-64 and rear surrounds are Infinity IL-30's. Checked the wiring and its correct. It detected my old Infinity center speaker just fine. Any suggestions what might be causing this? Thanks.

Does the MultEQ test tone play from the center speaker? The sequence should be L, C, R, RS, Rback, LBack, LS, Sub.

Chris

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post #1530 of 76287 Old 02-22-2008, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrang View Post

How much "better" is the aurual end result with The Sound Equalizer vs the built-in MultiEQ XT (like in the onkyo 905). Is this the point of diminishiing return (at $2500 or so) or, to those that have heard both in otherwise identical systems and environments, is there a worthwhile wow factor? I know, one persons wow is anothers' ho-hum, but curious nonetheless.

OK, I have to first point out a minor little thing: There is no "i" in MultEQ.

Although I can't answer your question of how audible the improvements will be in your room, there are some technical differences between the built-in MultEQ XT in receivers and the MultEQ XT that comes with the Sound Equalizer:

1) The filters in the Sound Equalizers provide twice the resolution for the front channels. This will provide a significant improvement in the lower frequency range of each speaker and also the subwoofer. The audibility of that improvement is hard to predict and will depend on the nature of the problems you have there.

2) The MultEQ Pro PC application provides additional optimization for calculating the crossover to the sub. In the built-in version MultEQ finds the -3 dB rolloff point of each speaker and reports it to the receiver's bass management system. In MultEQ Pro, the software searches for the frequency that provides the best blend between satellite and sub. This is often NOT the -3 dB point, but could be at a slightly higher frequency depending on the behavior of the room. Although the Sound Equalizer does not perform the bass management, the reported numbers that are entered manually in the pre-pro by the installer will provide better sub-sat blending.

3) The mic in the installer's kit is individually calibrated by serial number and that improves the high frequency measurement performance

4) There are additional choices available in the selection of the room target curve that cover a wider range of room situations

5) It is possible to take more measurements because there are no memory limits when using the PC app. This can be very useful for larger rooms

I should point out that items 2, 3, 4, and 5 above also apply to any MultEQ Pro calibration performed on receivers that can support it.

Chris

Chris

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