"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 53 - AVS Forum
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

Go to the website and look for the list of AudysseyPro-compatible devices.

On the Audyssey website? Where exactly is that information? I can't find it.

Oh, I see - when it says "Installer Ready" that means MultEQ-Pro ready.
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Old 02-22-2008, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguy2001 View Post

I just ran the Audyssey XT calibration using 8 points on my denon 4308ci and got an error message that my front right and left speakers were out of phase. I re-ran the calibration several times (turning off my projector) and only got the error until I switched the wiring on my front speakers. I find this a little odd because I checked the cabling and I have run the polarity correctly from the receiver when I get the error.

What makes this odder still is that I previously had a denon 4806 and never got the out of phase error on it. Any idea why I might be seeing this? Is this something I should be concerned about? My final calibration run was done with the polarity backwards on the front speakers, but with no errors during calibration.

The polarity detection method has changed since the original version found in the 4806. The usual reason for this happening is that one of the drivers in your speakers is probably intentionally wired out of phase. This is sometimes done to address blending issues at the crossover region.

Our recommendation is to check the wiring, but to go with what the manufacturer calls + and - on the back of the speaker.

Remember, the polarity warning is just an indicator for you to check the wiring. It has no bearing on the calculation of the MultEQ filters.

Chris

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Old 02-22-2008, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Have you considered changing the name to Audessey MultiEQ, just to make it easier on others?

Sanjay

Good one Sanjai.

Chris

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Old 02-23-2008, 09:39 AM
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I just purchased a new set of rear speakers, so I re-ran Audyssey
at seven different locations all within about two to three feet of
each other, starting with the main seating location first.

I have a fairly small room: 13x10 (10' ceilings) - no accoustic treatment
of any kind - just furniture.

I'm using an Onkyo PR-SC885P Pre-Pro.

My speakers and specs. are as follows:

Definitive Technology Mythos ST's(fronts) 14Hz-30KHz
Definitive Technology Mythos Ten(center) 31Hz-30KHz
Definitive Technology Mythos One's(rears) 20Hz-30KHz
SVS20-39PCI Subwoofer 20Hz-100Hz (+/-3db)

After Audyssey calibration settings:

Subwoofer: Yes
Mythos ST's: Full Band
Mythos Ten: 100 Hz
Mythos One's: Full Band
LPF: 120Hz
Double Bass: Off

I watched 300 after calibration and was very impressed with Audyssey's results. My only concern is the Full Band setting on the fronts and rears.
I have read numerous times on this thread about changing the speakers
to small regardless of the Full Band setting from Audyssey/Onkyo.

Is this accurate? If the speakers are capable of a Full Band signal
shouldn't the above settings apply?


I think Definitive Technology is a little generous when it comes to
their frequency range regarding the Mythos line. I just don't want
to damage my speakers by sending them a full range signal when
in reality they can't handle it, but my system sounded the best it
ever has last night with the above settings.

Am I just being paranoid?

Thanks in advance.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:44 AM
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I would leave the fronts full and give double bass a try.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:52 AM
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"Start with the mic in the middle of the front row and then move out to the left and right so that you don't go outside the front speakers.

I would leave the fireplace as it so that its effects are part of the measurement."

Thanks, Chris, I'll give that a try.

Noah
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

...
Subwoofer: Yes
Mythos ST's: Full Band
Mythos Ten: 100 Hz
Mythos One's: Full Band
LPF: 120Hz
Double Bass: Off
...

I would set the Mythos ST's and Mythos One's to 80 Hz and listen to it for at least one week. Then decide yourself.
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Old 02-23-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

I would leave the fronts full and give double bass a try.

Thanks, I'll try that.

So, set the rears to small and experiment with different crossover settings for them?

Quote:
I would set the Mythos ST's and Mythos One's to 80 Hz and listen to it for at least one week. Then decide yourself.

I'll try the above also.

Thanks.

It looks like I have a lot more experimenting to do.

Thanks for the input guys.

Display: Pioneer PRO-151 60" Elite
Blu-ray player: OPPO BDP-93, Sony BDP-S1000ES
Processor: Onkyo PR-SC885
Amplifier: Emotiva IPS-1 150Wx7
Game Console: Xbox 360, Xbox One, PS4
Speakers: Mythos ST(Fronts), Mythos Ten(Center), Mythos One(Rears)
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petmic10 View Post

Thanks, I'll try that.

So, set the rears to small and experiment with different crossover settings for them?


It works well for my Def Techs and Denon where Double Bass is called LFE + Main.
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Old 02-23-2008, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Have you considered changing the name to Audessey MultiEQ, just to make it easier on others?
Sanjay

Pointless. There are at least as many of us who will mispell those as Audyssey and MultEQ.

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Old 02-23-2008, 11:44 AM
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Wow, thanks for the quick reply! That is very helpful. I switched it back again so the polarity is correct according to the manufacturer. The setup I'm using are Rocket 300's for the 4 surrounds, RS760s for my fronts, and an RSC200 for my center. I switched them back after calibration as it doest sound like the calibration results are impacted by the polarity of the speakers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

The polarity detection method has changed since the original version found in the 4806. The usual reason for this happening is that one of the drivers in your speakers is probably intentionally wired out of phase. This is sometimes done to address blending issues at the crossover region.

Our recommendation is to check the wiring, but to go with what the manufacturer calls + and - on the back of the speaker.

Remember, the polarity warning is just an indicator for you to check the wiring. It has no bearing on the calculation of the MultEQ filters.

Chris

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Old 02-23-2008, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movieguy2001 View Post

I just ran the Audyssey XT calibration using 8 points on my denon 4308ci and got an error message that my front right and left speakers were out of phase. I re-ran the calibration several times (turning off my projector) and only got the error until I switched the wiring on my front speakers. I find this a little odd because I checked the cabling and I have run the polarity correctly from the receiver when I get the error.

What makes this odder still is that I previously had a denon 4806 and never got the out of phase error on it. Any idea why I might be seeing this? Is this something I should be concerned about? My final calibration run was done with the polarity backwards on the front speakers, but with no errors during calibration.

There may be incorrect wiring either in the receiver or in the speaker. Try connecting a 1.5v battery across the speaker leads (+ to red lead, - to black lead). Both speakers should move out. This will test if the speakers and their leads are wired up properly.
However, Audyssey's comments may mean that both speakers move inward. Either way, they should both move in the same direction.
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Old 02-23-2008, 07:19 PM
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FWIW,
I wasn't satisfied with Audyssey setting. With discrete frequency sound tracks, I was getting inconsistent sharp dips and peaks that I couldn't explain.
Then, suddenly an idea hit me. So, I flipped the polarity of the Sub woofer. Bravo ! I get smooth nice leveled Freq response. And yes, Audyssey EQ has started giving me the sounds that I was missing

In retrospect, is there any easy and quick way to check the polarity of Sub ?
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pondria View Post

FWIW,
I wasn't satisfied with Audyssey setting. With discrete frequency sound tracks, I was getting inconsistent sharp dips and peaks that I couldn't explain.
Then, suddenly an idea hit me. So, I flipped the polarity of the Sub woofer. Bravo ! I get smooth nice leveled Freq response. And yes, Audyssey EQ has started giving me the sounds that I was missing

In retrospect, is there any easy and quick way to check the polarity of Sub ?

Thanks for the info!!
Can you explain why you did experiment the polarity inversion? What drove you to this test? I will try too because I am not satisified with the sub sound, which does not melt well with the rest of the speakers, but I would like to know the theory behind this.

ciao
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:01 AM
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Hi Chris,

First of all, let me say thanks for your help on this forum. I'm a owner of a new Denon 3808 and I've read your pointers on mic placement for the Audyssey setup. Here's my question: I have an L-shaped couch. After the main listening position, which is at the corner of the couch, where should I place the mic for the rest of the measurements?

Cheers,
Michael

P.S. H patrida se xairetaei!!!
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:56 AM
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I have a denon 3808.
With Traingle Zerius Speakers and a eD A5-350 Sub.

I had some issues with AUDYSSEY and am wondering what to do. It is telling me that everything is out of phase. None of the polarity are wrong on the speakers. OK so I choose to ignore that warning like the manual says and run the calibration. At the end of it it gives me speaker distances of like .01 and .03 etc. Clearly the speakers are not that close. They are like 14, 13 and 13 feet away.

Also on a side- what should I put the subs low pass filter on? It does not give me off as an option just higher or lower.
AND My rears-Dipole, Bipole or normal??
Any ideas?? Thanks!


Lee
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

Thanks for the info!!
Can you explain why you did experiment the polarity inversion? What drove you to this test? I will try too because I am not satisfied with the sub sound, which does not melt well with the rest of the speakers, but I would like to know the theory behind this.

ciao

As I indicated in the post, I had no idea. Running out of options, I just tried.

I can try explaining the result. In the Cross-over area same freq sounds are fed to both Sub and Front. They interfere and phase makes the difference.

But this doesn't explain the entire thing. My Sub manual just says that I try phase inverting and pick whichever sounds natural The Distance to the Sub is reported longer than the actual physical distance. And Chris said it is normal. I forgot his explanation ( somewhere in this thread ). Subs are difficult to understand.
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Old 02-24-2008, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3bbY View Post

I have a denon 3808.
With Traingle Zerius Speakers and a eD A5-350 Sub.

I had some issues with AUDYSSEY and am wondering what to do. It is telling me that everything is out of phase. None of the polarity are wrong on the speakers. OK so I choose to ignore that warning like the manual says and run the calibration. At the end of it it gives me speaker distances of like .01 and .03 etc. Clearly the speakers are not that close. They are like 14, 13 and 13 feet away.

How close is the mic to walls, panels, leather couch?

Quote:


Also on a side- what should I put the subs low pass filter on? It does not give me off as an option just higher or lower.

As high as possible.

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http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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Old 02-24-2008, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

How close is the mic to walls, panels, leather couch?

Its not near a wall...well It is on the 5th position which I never sit at (guests seat) I place the mic on a few pillows maing it exactly ear height on my leather couch so its exactly where my head is. Is that bad?

Thanks
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Old 02-24-2008, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by W3bbY View Post

Its not near a wall...well It is on the 5th position which I never sit at (guests seat) I place the mic on a few pillows maing it exactly ear height on my leather couch so its exactly where my head is. Is that bad?

Thanks

Yes, the mic should be mounted on a tripod.

Like 80's rock? Add Pirate Radio KQLZ (updated 8/21/11): http://174.127.65.10:80 to your http://www.radiodenon.com

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Old 02-24-2008, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captavs View Post

Yes, the mic should be mounted on a tripod.

Right. Putting it on pillows, boxes or any other large support will corrupt the measurements. Tripod or mic stand.

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Old 02-24-2008, 01:17 PM
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Last night I went from being a month-long OP 885 owner to being an 885 user. And 30 mins ago I became an Audyssey user. After following this thread - and doing my share of sniping along the way - I had the measuring procedure down and the mic stand & accessories necessary to position and orient the PUCK (mic) vis-a-vis the speakers in my 7.1 system. Only once during all sixty-four measurements did I encroach time-wise on the process; I stepped in too soon after a side surround measurement to re-position the puck and got the admonishing raised volume chirp re-do. I contemplated aborting, but went ahead anyway. After the 885 display said "calculating" I fired up the video chain. I had no basis for an expectation of how long the calculations would take, but nonetheless it took longer than I expected. My anxiety to review the settings obviously made me impatient. And reading so many posts here filled with "Audyssey killed my XXXX" wasn't a mitigating factor.

Calculating complete, I reviewed. All speaker distances matched the physical measurements that I had taken last night. And the speaker levels were very close to what I had dialed in last night. On to the speaker configuration with this preface: I have a THX Ultra M&K S-150-based system with SS-150 side surrounds wired for dipole, and mere inches apart, dual SS-150 rear surrounds wired for monopole. The center channel was crossed at THX 80Hz, but L&R were FULL. Side surrounds were crossed at 70Hz and rear surrounds at 120Hz. LPF of LFE was (correctly, I learned here) set to 120Hz. I changed L&R to 80Hz, but decided to go with the other settings, mostly because "it" had gotten so many things right so far.

On to listening. Another relevant preface: This would be my first "at volume" experience with the 885, and it would also be my first time with my BD30 connected by HDMI to something that supported the new codecs. I popped in Live Free or Die Hard, which my wife and I had watched a few nights ago with my RDC-7 and Dolby Digital. I selected DTS-HD MA and advanced to the helicopter chase/tunnel scene. I started with the volume at -20dB from reference and found myself nudging it up until it was at -8dB. OK, my room/system NEVER sounded so good. I had just completed installation of SSC bass traps in the front corners, including the one at the wall/ceiling juncture, so my room had tightened up already, but the bottom was now so solid it seemed possible to grab chunks of bass to save for later. The automatic weapon fired by the copter bad guy thumped my chest with every round and the truck hitting the concrete pillar behind Willis and Long made me almost jump out of my seat. The surrounds - ALL of them - integrated with the mains like never before and the action all around the room was seamless. Seamless.

I am headed back now to put on the olyphants in the Battle of Pellenor Fields (DVD & DD EX) and then Blu-rays of Chris Botti and Dave Mathews. I need to pick it apart and find something wrong . . .
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Old 02-24-2008, 02:08 PM
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OK, my room/system NEVER sounded so good.

Congratulations.

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Old 02-24-2008, 02:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

I am headed back now to put on the olyphants in the Battle of Pellenor Fields (DVD & DD EX)

Ah, what I call the "stomp test". In my 6.1 system, Audyssey selects 40 Hz as the crossover point for all 6 speakers and all except the rear surround are rated as "Large" (I don't know why the rear surround doesn't get rated as Large when the centre speaker does and they are identical but still). With all speakers active to 40 Hz and a REL sub handling LFE, those oliphants are a very enveloping experience, the sort of experience where you almost want to say "Never mind the quality, feel the width" or the audio equivalent of that old quote. Great fun.
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Old 02-24-2008, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
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Ah, what I call the "stomp test". In my 6.1 system, Audyssey selects 40 Hz as the crossover point for all 6 speakers and all except the rear surround are rated as "Large" (I don't know why the rear surround doesn't get rated as Large when the centre speaker does and they are identical but still). With all speakers active to 40 Hz and a REL sub handling LFE, those oliphants are a very enveloping experience, the sort of experience where you almost want to say "Never mind the quality, feel the width" or the audio equivalent of that old quote. Great fun.

Well, yes, they are indeed the ultimate stompers! I did watch/listen to the scene right up to where the Nazgûl does his imploding thing. (I selected DTS ES 6.1 Discrete.) Not just does the stomping sound better than ever, all of the sounds are so much more distinct. Swords on ork flesh sound very different than swords on oliphant flesh which sounds very different than swords on leather. I'm hearing things I've never noticed before, and I've used that scene as a demo for a l-o-n-g time.

Dave Matthews was also revelatory. Audyssey has completely compensated for the AT screen (SmX CineWeave HD), which is something I could *never* do before with a Rane 1/3 oct EQ. And then it was only the center channel behind the screen (THX microperfed Stewart Firehawk). Even with L&R serving as a reference, I could not get it.

I'm now cleaning up the construction materials and empty A/V component boxes so that I can repeat the Live Free Die Hard scene from the other five seats. Maybe I'll find something wrong from one of them.
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Old 02-24-2008, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

The center channel was crossed at THX 80Hz, but L&R were FULL. Side surrounds were crossed at 70Hz and rear surrounds at 120Hz. LPF of LFE was (correctly, I learned here) set to 120Hz. I changed L&R to 80Hz, but decided to go with the other settings, mostly because "it" had gotten so many things right so far.

Any reason why you cross the surrounds @70 and the rear surrounds @ 120 even though you have the same kind of speakers?

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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Old 02-24-2008, 07:43 PM
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i did a search but couldn't find a difinitive answer,does anyone know for sure if on my onkyo 805 when listening to music in pure audio is audyssey being used.its sounds like it but im not sure,i also didnt think to check led till right now.
thanks
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Old 02-24-2008, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmplockmonster View Post

i did a search but couldn't find a difinitive answer,does anyone know for sure if on my onkyo 805 when listening to music in pure audio is audyssey being used.its sounds like it but im not sure,i also didnt think to check led till right now.
thanks

I think not but the Audyssey LED will tell you for sure.

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Old 02-24-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stills View Post

I was playing some test tones (just got a new HSU sub!) and was surprised to hear tones above the cross-over frequency going through the sub. I was thinking that when -- for example -- setting the crossover to 80hz that all tones above 80hz would go to the speakers only, with tones only below 80 hz gradually transitioning to the sub.

Am I mis-interpreting how cross-overs work, or is my system inaccurately crossing over the frequencies?

Crossovers are not absolute cut-offs but are the frequencies where the cut-off slopes are down about 3dB. There is significant output beyond the indicated frequencies and, therefore, overlap between the crossed-over drivers. How much overlap depends on the steepness of the slopes.

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Old 02-24-2008, 08:56 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Quintana Roo ... in my mind
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Any reason why you cross the surrounds @70 and the rear surrounds @ 120 even though you have the same kind of speakers?

Me cross them? No, not me. That was what Audyssey passed along to my pre/pro as where to cross them. Both sets of surrounds are the same, but the sides are wired for dipole and the rears are wired for monopole. As dipoles, the opposing (side) drivers are active, while as monopoles, the front drivers are active. Plus, perhaps, their different locations in the room played a part in the "decision." Those are the differences, but I can only guess if they are factors.

I can tell you the system sounds gr-r-r-eat.
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