"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 556 - AVS Forum
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post #16651 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 07:53 PM
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I ran the Audyssey setup on my Onkyo 876 and it's set all the speaker distances and trim levels. I assume the trim levels have been set so that all the speakers are level matched.

Got a friend's CM-140 SPL meter to double check and I noted that some of the speaker levels are out by 0.5 - 1.0 dB. So I adjusted the trim on those and now all the speaker levels are matched according to the SPL meter. Just wondering if what I did was correct or should I not mess with the Audyssey settings?
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post #16652 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

I ran the Audyssey setup on my Onkyo 876 and it's set all the speaker distances and trim levels. I assume the trim levels have been set so that all the speakers are level matched.

Got a friend's CM-140 SPL meter to double check and I noted that some of the speaker levels are out by 0.5 - 1.0 dB. So I adjusted the trim on those and now all the speaker levels are matched according to the SPL meter. Just wondering if what I did was correct or should I not mess with the Audyssey settings?

Well, you have to ask which is more accurate? I'd go with Audyssey and its swept tones over the SPL meter with pink noise.

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post #16653 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 08:07 PM
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Good point there. I hadn't considered the issue of accuracy, just assumed they were the same.

Any idea what freq the swept tones cover?
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post #16654 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Good point there. I hadn't considered the issue of accuracy, just assumed they were the same.

Any idea what freq the swept tones cover?

I assume they cover from below 20Hz to about 20KHz since that is what Audyssey measures and, in some models, graphs.

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post #16655 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jchong View Post

Got a friend's CM-140 SPL meter to double check and I noted that some of the speaker levels are out by 0.5 - 1.0 dB. So I adjusted the trim on those and now all the speaker levels are matched according to the SPL meter. Just wondering if what I did was correct or should I not mess with the Audyssey settings?

Hehe...I did the exact same thing! Got out the ol' meter and 'fine-tuned' what Audyssey did. I guess that Kal is pointing out is the Reference vs. Preference issue, so it comes down to what is accurate as opposed to what you like.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef View Post

But, I think what you meant to say is that Audyssey's corrections still apply even if you tweak the crossover settings. It may not have been stated clearly enough.

I'm interpreting this to mean that all of the Audyssey adjustments are still in place "except" for crossover if changed manually. I'm a bit confused on this point. Audyssey is setting my three front speaker crossover points anywhere from 40Hz to 60Hz. My sub has a 'set' crossover of 80Hz and I want to make sure it is doing the heavy work and not the three fronts. Thanks for the help.

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post #16656 of 71773 Old 07-20-2009, 08:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't know about other brands, but on a Denon if you hit "cancel" during a position it will just take you back to the menu screen before that position and you can re-do it without starting over from scratch. e.g. you are on measurement position #4, right in the middle and a helicopter flies over... just hit "cancel", wait for it to fly by, and then hit "Next" and it will re-measure position #4.

I'll keep it in mind for next time. Thanks.
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post #16657 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

Those damn dogs out there will bark at the stupidest things.

Hey rec head,

That's why I imprison the wife and the dogs in the bedroom with strict orders to wait for me to open the door when I'm done. It may cost me her going out shopping later, but the compromise is worth it.
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post #16658 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 05:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Hey rec head,

That's why I imprison the wife and the dogs in the bedroom with strict orders to wait for me to open the door when I'm done. It may cost me her going out shopping later, but the compromise is worth it.

Probably the ears of those damn dogs are sensitive enough to hear the Audyssey test tones even while your windows are closed. For more dog related info why not look into the Barking Dogs Forum at http://www.livejournal.com/community/barkingdogs prior to launching you Audyssey set up procedures.
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post #16659 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't know about other brands, but on a Denon if you hit "cancel" during a position it will just take you back to the menu screen before that position and you can re-do it without starting over from scratch. e.g. you are on measurement position #4, right in the middle and a helicopter flies over... just hit "cancel", wait for it to fly by, and then hit "Next" and it will re-measure position #4.

The NAD's also do the same and at the end of the reading, it also allows one more confirmation of either saving that particular position or to cancel and re-measure. Nice feature...

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post #16660 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:22 AM
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Okay - perhaps my below post didn't contain a direct question (other than the "Strange?"), but I was still hoping for some response/insight ranging from "stop bothering us with your gibberish..." to "that can happen when..." to "that's a new one...have to think about it...".

Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

I previously posted some blunt (sorry!) criticism of Audyssey's bass correction abilities. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...7#post16792407. I took the advice from responding posters, along with that in the "Audyssey Setup Guide", and tuned my sub's PEQ first and then ran Audyssey. To make a long story shorter, I did this several times (and listened to and tested several combinations of the PEQ and Audyssey EQ off/on) and have come to another interesting conclusion:

The Audyssey setup counteracts my sub PEQ settings. In another words, I used the PEQ to reduce a few system peaks to a reasonable level (i.e., I smoothed things out to a "house curve" rising slowing from 0dB @ 100Hz to +5dB @ 30Hz). Then after running the Audyssey setup the peaks seemingly reappeared!

Ok - I know that I am using some neanderthal test equipment/procedures to come to the above conclusion (my ears, a RABOS test kit, my BFD RTA, sine wave signals, etc.), but they all seem to agree with the conclusion. I can only speculate that my room resonances have such long attack and decay times that they are missed by Audyssey, which in turn makes corrections to add them back in. Since I am REW-less (clueless?) who's to say....

So, contrary to what would seem to be the correct approach I finally chose to run Audyssey first and then set my PEQ. This was the only way I could get my test equipment and ears to find a satisfying result. Strange?

P.S. So I don't seem to be the bearer of only criticism, Audyssey did a great job of EQ'ing my other speakers (they're in-wall and with some bothersome response issues too), and Dynamic EQ and Volume sound great!

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post #16661 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

Okay - perhaps my below post didn't contain a direct question (other than the "Strange?"), but I was still hoping for some response/insight ranging from "stop bothering us with your gibberish..." to "that can happen when..." to "that's a new one...have to think about it...".

Reducing some of the peaks with PEQ and a mic in one spot has exactly that effect: it reduces the peaks at the exact location of the microphone. But, it has very little effect on the bass in your listening area. So, when MultEQ measures it makes its adjustments based on its goal of smoothing the bass over a wider area and thus corresponding more closely to what you will hear. To get better performance out of your PEQ you should take 6-8 measurements around the listening area, average them, and then make adjustments in your PEQ before running MultEQ.

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post #16662 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:58 AM
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Chris, I've been wondering what is the frequency range you cover for the subwoofer. I have an Onkyo 875 and have previously used a BFD with a RS SPL meter to smooth out my bass response. One nice thing about how my setup worked out was that bass actually increased under 20Hz on down to 16Hz. My subs are more than sufficient for my room so I did nothing to tame this peak since I figured I'd just be feeling it more. Does MutliEQ XT go below 20Hz?

I've had the 875 for a while and I used Audyssey to set it up originally, but I didn't realize that it was doing that much equalization. So I haven't checked if it made changes to my bass response yet. I loaned my SPL meter to a friend and hope to get that back soon so I can run some more tests. It's my hope to remove the BFD altogether as I noticed a while back it's introducing some hiss into my subs. I'm also looking at the SVS AS-EQ1 to see if that will give me a bit more control.

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post #16663 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Chris, I've been wondering what is the frequency range you cover for the subwoofer. I have an Onkyo 875 and have previously used a BFD with a RS SPL meter to smooth out my bass response. One nice thing about how my setup worked out was that bass actually increased under 20Hz on down to 16Hz. My subs are more than sufficient for my room so I did nothing to tame this peak since I figured I'd just be feeling it more. Does MutliEQ XT go below 20Hz?

I've had the 875 for a while and I used Audyssey to set it up originally, but I didn't realize that it was doing that much equalization. So I haven't checked if it made changes to my bass response yet. I loaned my SPL meter to a friend and hope to get that back soon so I can run some more tests. It's my hope to remove the BFD altogether as I noticed a while back it's introducing some hiss into my subs. I'm also looking at the SVS AS-EQ1 to see if that will give me a bit more control.

Hi Keith,

Yes, MultEQ XT goes below 20 Hz if it finds your sub having output down there. I would highly recommend trying without the BFD. Also, please keep in mind that an SPL meter is basically useless in making frequency response adjustments in the subwoofer range especially when using sine tones. The standing waves in that region are so severe and position dependent that you are shooting in the dark. The AS-EQ1 is a major improvement because it doubles the resolution of the filters in the subwoofer and thus lets you correct even finer details.

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post #16664 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I don't know about other brands, but on a Denon if you hit "cancel" during a position it will just take you back to the menu screen before that position and you can re-do it without starting over from scratch. e.g. you are on measurement position #4, right in the middle and a helicopter flies over... just hit "cancel", wait for it to fly by, and then hit "Next" and it will re-measure position #4.

Of course, waiting until 2 or 3 AM increases the chances of getting a Harley/Superduty Diesel/Siren free run. ... And you can shutoff your AC units without melting too.
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post #16665 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 09:26 AM
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Thanks for the feedback Chris. I'll do some experimentation and report back.

Is the Pro gear the only way to tweak the curves? I understand the desire to go for flat, but I just feel like if you got some extra headroom below 20Hz you might as well use it. From what I've gathered about the AS-EQ1 it doesn't allow tweaking either. I currently run a pair of SVS CS16-46+ with one port blocked in each and while my room is somewhat open to the rest of the house I've never lacked for bass with this setup.

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post #16666 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 10:49 AM
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I have just run Audyssey with my Onkyo 805 & the results look a little strange.

I have the following speakers
Left & Right - Mission 752 floor standing -6db point 40Hz
Centre - Mission 75C -6db point 55Hz
Suround - Wharfedale 9.0 -6db point 60Hz
Sub - BK XLS200 -6db point 17Hz

The Config results were
Subwoofer - Yes
Front - 150Hz
Centre - 60Hz
Surround -60Hz

Does anyone know why the Mission floor standing speakers are 150Hz, yet the little Wharfdale Bookshelf speakers are 60Hz
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post #16667 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Thanks for the feedback Chris. I'll do some experimentation and report back.

Is the Pro gear the only way to tweak the curves? I understand the desire to go for flat, but I just feel like if you got some extra headroom below 20Hz you might as well use it. From what I've gathered about the AS-EQ1 it doesn't allow tweaking either. I currently run a pair of SVS CS16-46+ with one port blocked in each and while my room is somewhat open to the rest of the house I've never lacked for bass with this setup.

Hi Keith,

The Pro software does allow curve tweaking for products that are installer-ready.

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post #16668 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnWB56 View Post

I have just run Audyssey with my Onkyo 805 & the results look a little strange.

I have the following speakers
Left & Right - Mission 752 floor standing -6db point 40Hz
Centre - Mission 75C -6db point 55Hz
Suround - Wharfedale 9.0 -6db point 60Hz
Sub - BK XLS200 -6db point 17Hz

The Config results were
Subwoofer - Yes
Front - 150Hz
Centre - 60Hz
Surround -60Hz

Does anyone know why the Mission floor standing speakers are 150Hz, yet the little Wharfdale Bookshelf speakers are 60Hz

Hi John,

That's probably because your Mission speakers are out from the wall and the Wharfdales are closer to the wall. The manufacturer specs are for ideal conditions, but the speaker performance can change dramatically in an actual room. That's the whole point of room correction: to measure what the speakers are actually doing.

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post #16669 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 11:03 AM
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Chris, thanks for the very quick answer.

So, should I just leave things as they are or should I change any settings.
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post #16670 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by JohnWB56 View Post

Chris, thanks for the very quick answer.

So, should I just leave things as they are or should I change any settings.

I would leave things as they are.

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post #16671 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 11:21 AM
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Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

I would leave things as they are.

Will do, you are the expert
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post #16672 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

...To get better performance out of your PEQ you should take 6-8 measurements around the listening area, average them, and then make adjustments in your PEQ before running MultEQ.

Yeah you did previously chide me for not taking PEQ measurements in multiple locations. Will see how my system's current response varies over the locations I used for the MultEQ setup to see what this might mean before I start all over for the 3rd time (these test tones are driving my wife batty or causing me to take too many breaks from work).

BTW - In my various attempts to find the best sub setup method I initially compared results after only one Audyssey measurement (at the single location from which I took my PEQ readings). Even then Audyssey did very little correcting or counteracted the PEQ. My simple mind can't grasp this result, though I'm sure there is an explanation....
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post #16673 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 03:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by av-ra View Post

BTW - In my various attempts to find the best sub setup method I initially compared results after only one Audyssey measurement (at the single location from which I took my PEQ readings). Even then Audyssey did very little correcting or counteracted the PEQ. My simple mind can't grasp this result, though I'm sure there is an explanation....

I would be surprised if MultEQ did much with one measurement. We do not condone, endorse, support, encourage, or in any other way mention single position measurements. They don't work. Doing them is a complete waste of time for room correction. Not that I feel too strongly about this or anything...

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post #16674 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

I would be surprised if MultEQ did much with one measurement. We do not condone, endorse, support, encourage, or in any other way mention single position measurements. They don't work. Doing them is a complete waste of time for room correction. Not that I feel too strongly about this or anything...

Figured I'd be chided again...back to my annoying test tones and chasing windmills....
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post #16675 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 04:22 PM
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Chris,

If you don't mind, I have a question related to the SVS AS-EQ1, with 2 different subs.

Based on the procedure for using it, I assume that the EQ1 first determines the distance and level for each sub and then it produces a filter for the 2 subs. It does not produce a filter for each individual sub. The question:

What happens if I use 2 subs with different frequency response capabilities? For example, one sub that goes down to 16 hz while the other goes down to only 24 hz.

Will the EQ1 create a filter all the way down to 16 hz for both subs (thus potentially damaging the sub which can only go down to 24 hz)?

Will the EQ1 create a filter that goes only down to 24 hz, thus "wasting" the capability of the other sub to go down to 16 hz?

In other words, should the 2 subs have a similar frequency response for them to be effectively used with the EQ1?

Thanks a lot!

Mark
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post #16676 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 06:34 PM
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Hi Mark,

Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

Based on the procedure for using it, I assume that the EQ1 first determines the distance and level for each sub and then it produces a filter for the 2 subs. It does not produce a filter for each individual sub.

You actually get to choose. We recommend the method above, but you could have it do two individual filters (one for each sub). It's a setting in the calibration application.

Quote:


In other words, should the 2 subs have a similar frequency response for them to be effectively used with the EQ1?

It's really best to start with subs have close to the same capability. If one of them doesn't go as low as the other then what would be the point of having it, other than just playing louder bass in the overlapping response region?

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post #16677 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

You actually get to choose. We recommend the method above, but you could have it do two individual filters (one for each sub). It's a setting in the calibration application.

In the app with the AS-EQ1 or with the Audyssey Sub Equalizer? I just ran the former again for about the 7th or 8th time and I don't recall seeing it.
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post #16678 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

In the app with the AS-EQ1 or with the Audyssey Sub Equalizer?

Yes.

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post #16679 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Yes.

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post #16680 of 71773 Old 07-21-2009, 08:29 PM
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Hi Chris, I wanted to ask you this, If my XT system in my 705 makes it through all eight steps of shooting, are the effect(outcome) the same whether I have a loud room(noisy) or a silent room?


Thanks.
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