"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 571 - AVS Forum
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post #17101 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluesky636 View Post

No offense taken.

Easy.

I have DRC turned off in my player. Never use it.

When playing Iron Man there is an audible difference in sound when the 706 defaults to Auto vs when I turn it off. When set to Auto in the 706, the dynamic range is clearly decreased. Soft sounds are louder and loud sounds are softer. You don't need test gear to confirm it.

IMHO, if the player is set to bitstream, and the DRC flag is part of that bitstream, there is no way the player can see the flag without decoding the bitstream. Therefore, turning DRC on/off in a player that is bitstreaming would have no effect. It makes sense then that the DRC selection by the player is only valid if the player is decoding internally and outputting multichannel pcm.

Hi,

Thanks, yes that makes sense.

So, if I understand you correctly you believe if we decode in the players, and turnoff DRC in the players, we will never have to reset Onkyo devices' Late Night function from AUTO to OFF to avoid DRC being automatically invoked on certain TrueHD titles? Correct?

How about temporarily switching your player to PCM and see if there no longer is an audible difference between the AUTO and OFF setting? I would do it myself, but my prepro died last night.

Larry



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post #17102 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Ken,

The most common reason for this is that measurements are being taken too far off axis from the speakers. This usually happens if measurements are taken in seats up against the side walls for example. There is a guide that you can read in the first post in this thread that talks about optimal mic placement. The 6-8 measurements should be concentrated in the center of the listening area.

The second reason could be preference vs reference. The Audyssey curve provides the necessary translation needed to listen to movie content in a smaller home listening room. Your NAD also provides a target curve from NAD that also includes a small amount of high frequency roll off. The Flat curve does not have any roll off and is sometimes useful for music listening.

Thanks Chris,

My measurements are all very similar to the examples given at the start to this thread and therefore not off axis - there is a definate high frequency roll off on all audyssey settings including flat - can you confirm that audyssey does limit high frequencies?? if not then there has to be an issue with the mic?? - if audyssey does limit - then i will do without it

Ken
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post #17103 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 03:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

...parts deleted....
So, this is a long winded answer to let you know that you are looking for an easy solution to a hard problem and I'm afraid there just isn't one.

Chris, I trust you are confident that the Audyssey technologies do work as they should but how do you verifiy that yourself in the lab?
Just listening with your ears can't be enough so you must have some scientific way of proving and verifying that they actually do work.
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post #17104 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nek View Post

Thanks Chris,

My measurements are all very similar to the examples given at the start to this thread and therefore not off axis - there is a definate high frequency roll off on all audyssey settings including flat

again, do you KNOW there is a high-freq roll off or are you just used to your uncorrected speakers/room, which BOOST the high frequencies? maybe you are hearing "flat" for the first time!

if you have done your measurements correctly, the "flat" curve will give FLAT response. that's the whole point!

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post #17105 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 04:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nek View Post

Thanks Chris,

My measurements are all very similar to the examples given at the start to this thread and therefore not off axis - there is a definate high frequency roll off on all audyssey settings including flat - can you confirm that audyssey does limit high frequencies?? if not then there has to be an issue with the mic?? - if audyssey does limit - then i will do without it

Ken

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

again, do you KNOW there is a high-freq roll off or are you just used to your uncorrected speakers/room, which BOOST the high frequencies? maybe you are hearing "flat" for the first time!

if you have done your measurements correctly, the "flat" curve will give FLAT response. that's the whole point!

What seems to be overlooked here is that the systems the film mixers use to create the soundtracks are adjusted to sound like the Audyssey Curve - OK, it's the other way around, but work with me here people - and that those mixers EQ the various elements that go into the soundtrack to sound natural on those systems. So, in effect, the soundtracks themselves have the inverse equalization curve built into them, and EQ'ing our home theater systems to be flat with test tones will make movies sound too bright.


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post #17106 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 04:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MCaugusto View Post

Question to "audio pundit" audyssey : Do you know whether or not Audyssey calibrates aiming to achieve a level of around 70 decibels SPL instead of the "standard" 75 decibels level ?
.
.
.

Thank you >>> Marcos

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Yes, I know a little bit about that...

Chris,

How do you keep a straight face all the time?

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post #17107 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 04:41 PM
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That's allot of speakers what are the headphones like ..


Quote:
Originally Posted by Flageborg View Post

Hi Chris.

Thanks for your very helpful explanations.

So far my Audyssey DSX setup looks like this

&fs=1" width="644" height="390">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&fs=1" />[ATTN POSTER: YouTube Insert Error: Something went wrong. Please make sure you added the video correctly. Click here to see how YouTube videos should be embedded. There could also be a technical issue that's not your fault. Click 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" target="_blank">here to view the video on YouTube's site. If this link doesn't work, you did something wrong.]

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post #17108 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toddRiffic View Post

Hey bluesky,

Ok, you are right. I listened to a little of "Master" and the French ship sounds like it has bigger cannons (Come to think of it, I think being "out-gunned" was a key plot point), on my system they have a deeper pitch then the English ship and sounded louder. With the wood breaking at the same time it's a very complex passage. I listened with DEQ on, without DVOL and it rocked my world.

Thanks again.

You're welcome.

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post #17109 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryChanin View Post

Hi,

Thanks, yes that makes sense.

So, if I understand you correctly you believe if we decode in the players, and turnoff DRC in the players, we will never have to reset Onkyo devices' Late Night function from AUTO to OFF to avoid DRC being automatically invoked on certain TrueHD titles? Correct?

How about temporarily switching your player to PCM and see if there no longer is an audible difference between the AUTO and OFF setting? I would do it myself, but my prepro died last night.

Larry

Sorry to hear about your pre-pro. A "get well" card is in the mail.

Yes, I will try it out in a day or two and let you know.

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post #17110 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nek View Post

Thanks Chris,

My measurements are all very similar to the examples given at the start to this thread and therefore not off axis - there is a definate high frequency roll off on all audyssey settings including flat - can you confirm that audyssey does limit high frequencies?? if not then there has to be an issue with the mic?? - if audyssey does limit - then i will do without it

Ken

Hi Ken,

The Audyssey Flat curve is flat and has no roll off.

However, as was pointed out by someone earlier, if your speakers have an elevated high frequency range then it is certainly possible that Audyssey Flat is bring it down to make them Flat.

I doubt that this is a mic issue. Most mic issues would involve a decreased high frequency pickup from the mic and that would result in filters that overly boost the high end. This is not what's happening here.

Chris

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post #17111 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickardl View Post

Chris, I trust you are confident that the Audyssey technologies do work as they should but how do you verifiy that yourself in the lab?
Just listening with your ears can't be enough so you must have some scientific way of proving and verifying that they actually do work.

Without going into all the methods we use, one fully objective one is based on electrical measurements. If you simulate a room with a response and then create a correction filter for it using MultEQ you can measure the input-to-output response electrically (no mic) and show that you get the desired target as the result.

Chris

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post #17112 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Hi Ken,

The Audyssey Flat curve is flat and has no roll off.

However, as was pointed out by someone earlier, if your speakers have an elevated high frequency range then it is certainly possible that Audyssey Flat is bring it down to make them Flat.

I doubt that this is a mic issue. Most mic issues would involve a decreased high frequency pickup from the mic and that would result in filters that overly boost the high end. This is not what's happening here.

Hi Chris,

Another possibility is that Ken has THX Re-EQ enabled.

Larry



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post #17113 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Without going into all the methods we use, one fully objective one is based on electrical measurements. If you simulate a room with a response and then create a correction filter for it using MultEQ you can measure the input-to-output response electrically (no mic) and show that you get the desired target as the result.

What sort of computational power is required to simulate a room?


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post #17114 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:13 PM
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The iPhone has an app for that!

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post #17115 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 05:20 PM
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Seen that it also comes with a decibel meter ..
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post #17116 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 06:05 PM
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In an attempt to reduce the space required for my home theater, I'm auditioning some Orb Audio speakers. Initially I am running them in a 2.1 (2 mod2 + super 8 sub) setup just to see how I like them. The first time I ran Audyssey, everything went fine. Every time since, however, I'm getting a phase warning. I have checked every connection multiple times and even rewired the speakers to ensure the wiring is not the issue. If I move the speakers around (maybe moving the mic too), the phase warning will change - eg. sometimes it's the left speaker, sometimes right, sometimes both.

Is it possible I have a bad mic? I haven't used it in about 6 months since I ran the setup with my old speakers.

Any other ideas?
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post #17117 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryanb View Post

In an attempt to reduce the space required for my home theater, I'm auditioning some Orb Audio speakers. Initially I am running them in a 2.1 (2 mod2 + super 8 sub) setup just to see how I like them. The first time I ran Audyssey, everything went fine. Every time since, however, I'm getting a phase warning. I have checked every connection multiple times and even rewired the speakers to ensure the wiring is not the issue. If I move the speakers around (maybe moving the mic too), the phase warning will change - eg. sometimes it's the left speaker, sometimes right, sometimes both.

Is it possible I have a bad mic? I haven't used it in about 6 months since I ran the setup with my old speakers.

Any other ideas?

If you've verified that your wiring is correct, ignore the warning. Especially ignore it if if "moves around" with no changes other than physically moving speakers and/or mic.


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post #17118 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 07:31 PM
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So I finally took the plunge and picked up a 3808 last week and have been spending many hours playings around. Some things I absolutely love. Other things not so much. I really upgraded for the Audyssey features since I read nothing but great things about it. First off, I have been having troubles getting Audyssey to calculate my speaker distances correct. I know I know, this has been discussed multiple times, I just want to see if I am missing something. They all come up really small like 1ft to 0.1ft (sometimes Ill get 6.5 ft or something). I read that this could be because of firmware corruption and to do the "scratch test." Scratch the mic while connected might results in noise coming out of the speakers. Well, tried this but it didnt do anything, good news I suppose. I thought to reset the microprocessor and try Audyssey again to see if that fixes the problem. Reset the unit but when I go to perform the firmware update again it says I have the latest version? Did I not reset if correctly? I tried auto setup again but it is still is way off everytime. Actual distances as follows for my 5.1 setup:
FL and FR: 12.5 ft
Center: 12ft
SL, SR, and SW: 7ft
My room is by no means the correct layout for audio (its in the shape of an "L"). Is there something else that could be wrong? The only mic stand I have is for a camera. I know this isnt ideal but my measurments shouldnt be this far off right? I know I can set the distances manually, but I didnt throw out this kind of $ for the unit to tell me something thats obviously wrong. Ive even seen it say that one of the speakers is 0.0ft awy LOL. Any help is appreciated.
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post #17119 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07tC View Post

I read that this could be because of firmware corruption and to do the "scratch test." Scratch the mic while connected might results in noise coming out of the speakers. Well, tried this but it didnt do anything, good news I suppose.

If you recently did a Denon firmware update and are having this problem it's time to call Denon. The mic scratch test is not definitive. But, getting distances of 0 or 0.1 ft is a clear sign...Unfortunately you have the firmware corruption issue and Denon has to reflash your unit. They are aware of it.

Chris

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post #17120 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

What sort of computational power is required to simulate a room?

Any MacBook that you have lying around will do.

Chris

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post #17121 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Any MacBook that you have lying around will do.

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post #17122 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 08:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

If you recently did a Denon firmware update and are having this problem it's time to call Denon. The mic scratch test is not definitive. But, getting distances of 0 or 0.1 ft is a clear sign...Unfortunately you have the firmware corruption issue and Denon has to reflash your unit. They are aware of it.

Damn, thats really too bad. The first thing I did to the unit was update the firmware. I bought this from someone used locally so Im not sure if this ever worked for him. Also, he is still looking for the original receipt. He said it is still under warranty since he bought it a year ago from Best Buy. I take it I need the receipt? Hopefully the guy finds it cause I dont want to be shelling out more dough. Do they reflash the unit at authorized dealers? Thanks!

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post #17123 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 09:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 07tC View Post

Damn, thats really too bad. The first thing I did to the unit was update the firmware. I bought this from someone used locally so Im not sure if this ever worked for him. Also, he is still looking for the original receipt. He said it is still under warranty since he bought it a year ago from Best Buy. I take it I need the receipt? Hopefully the guy finds it cause I dont want to be shelling out more dough. Do they reflash the unit at authorized dealers? Thanks!

You should really call Denon and ask them. I don't know exactly how they handle this, but I do know that they do.

Chris

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post #17124 of 72411 Old 08-03-2009, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by 07tC View Post

Damn, thats really too bad. The first thing I did to the unit was update the firmware. I bought this from someone used locally so Im not sure if this ever worked for him. Also, he is still looking for the original receipt. He said it is still under warranty since he bought it a year ago from Best Buy. I take it I need the receipt? Hopefully the guy finds it cause I dont want to be shelling out more dough. Do they reflash the unit at authorized dealers? Thanks!

You don't need a receipt if it was purchased from Best Buy. All you need is the phone number, credit card number, etc. They will look up the receipt for you.

That said, do what Chris said, contact Denon...

Never argue with an idiot; they drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.


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post #17125 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 12:30 AM
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Hi all, I just became the proud owner of a 989 last week, and I have a question.

I have a 2.1 system right now, and when Audyssey is engaged, I sometimes wonder if the sound seems a bit "phasey" -- out of phase. As an example, if I run the THX Optimizer audio test to check for phase, I find that with Audyssey off, the phantom center image is locked right between my front speakers. With Audyssey on, the phantom center takes on a slightly more diffuse aspect, and definitely has a different sound to it. Dynamic EQ/Volume settings don't seem to make a difference. Is this a problem with running my Audyssey setup, or is this the sort of effect I should expect without a dedicated center channel? Maybe someone with time on their hands could try running the THX checks with just L/R and sub to verify my experience.

Thanks!
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post #17126 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tkc View Post

Is this a problem with running my Audyssey setup, or is this the sort of effect I should expect without a dedicated center channel?

How many measurement positions did you use and where did you place the mic?

Chris

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post #17127 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 09:42 AM
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How many words to you want it in?

It's not a matter of how many words it's a matter of words that make sense. I'm sorry maybe it's just me but I did not understand your post, it seems to have some grammatical errors that makes it unintelligible. Could you explain or repost? I'm not trying to be rude I'd just like to understand your post.
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post #17128 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by BWG707 View Post

It's not a matter of how many words it's a matter of words that make sense. I'm sorry maybe it's just me but I did not understand your post, it seems to have some grammatical errors that makes it unintelligible. Could you explain or repost? I'm not trying to be rude I'd just like to understand your post.

Not everybody here is a native English speaker.

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off job done, does my head in the TrueHd auto Bull .."

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off. Job done. It does my head in (with this) TrueHD auto BS .."


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post #17129 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 10:08 AM
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Not everybody here is a native English speaker.

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off job done, does my head in the TrueHd auto Bull .."

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off. Job done. It does my head in (with this) TrueHD auto BS .."

Thanks. I thought it meant something like that, after I read it 3 or 4 times. Soon to come: Pepar's full "namuk to English" translation Guide...

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post #17130 of 72411 Old 08-04-2009, 10:16 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Not everybody here is a native English speaker.

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off job done, does my head in the TrueHd auto Bull .."

"Auto , off , on .. there should just a option in the settings just to switch it off. Job done. It does my head in (with this) TrueHD auto BS .."

Thanks Pepar, as said I was not trying to be rude, I'm just confused about exactly what the differences are between the Auto, Off, and On settings and I was reading all the posts that I could find concerning this.
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