"Official" Audyssey thread (FAQ in post #51779) - Page 91 - AVS Forum
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post #2701 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 02:14 PM
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How do I know if I need to change the selected db settings for each speaker? Example, IIRC Audyssey set my center to -2db.

I am quite impressed with the similar sound the system now plays in each seating position.
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post #2702 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstripe View Post

How do I know if I need to change the selected db settings for each speaker? Example, IIRC Audyssey set my center to -2db.

I am quite impressed with the similar sound the system now plays in each seating position.

Run a pink noise from your receiver and use SPL meter to set speaker levels.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #2703 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Sorry for being not being clear here. The chirp does play, sometimes once and sometimes three times before getting the retry message. Speaker Detect screen would indicate "No" next to FL. I called Onkyo and they are sending out a new mic. If that fails, they said to send the unit in for repair. I hope it wouldn't come to that, as this would mean without receiver for weeks in not months.

Alex, I doubt it is the mic or the receiver. You mentioned that you have a projector. If it's on, the noise interferes with the measurement. Do you have a small TV you can use and turn the projector off? Even a video camera screen would work.

One final thing to check is that the speaker doesn't have a damaged driver. For example, if the midrange or tweeter are blown then MultEQ doesn't get back the expected response for a satellite speaker and could also give an error. When you play pink noise from it, does it sound the same as the other speakers? You could try swapping the L and R speakers and then see if the error happens on the right channel. If so, then you have a problem with that speaker.

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post #2704 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Alex, I doubt it is the mic or the receiver. You mentioned that you have a projector. If it's on, the noise interferes with the measurement. Do you have a small TV you can use and turn the projector off? Even a video camera screen would work.

One final thing to check is that the speaker doesn't have a damaged driver. For example, if the midrange or tweeter are blown then MultEQ doesn't get back the expected response for a satellite speaker and could also give an error. When you play pink noise from it, does it sound the same as the other speakers? You could try swapping the L and R speakers and then see if the error happens on the right channel. If so, then you have a problem with that speaker.

Chris


I was getting this retry message before I turned my projector on. I turned on at your suggestion to see what the message actually is. I tried swapping three different brand of speakers, one of them is brand new, I just took it out from the box, two different external amplifiers in addition to the running just the Onkyo, two different speaker wires and three different interconnect and I am getting the same message. My room is very quite with everything turned off.

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #2705 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 03:59 PM
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Here is my dilemma:

When I first started using audessy in my denon 2808, I ran it over 15 times. Each time, the result was largely the same....everything sounded much better, but my center was so harsh I just couldn't stand it. Finally, I lowered the mic to be on level with my center (which happens to be pretty low). On that pass, I got the results I wanted..no more harsh center!

I have been perfectly happy ever since. However, we just carpeted the room. It had fake wood tiles before. So I had planned to rerun audessy after the carpeting, but last night while watching some moves I was really impressed with the sound with the carpeting and am really nervous to run audessy again.
I wonder if I just got lucky that last time through setup, or did lowering the mic really make the difference and therefore my results will be reproducible.

So what should I do: leave it alone b/c it sounds good to me, or re-run in the hopes that it can sound even better and maybe more accurate?

Tweaking can be a double edged sword!! And I don't want to re-run audessy only to wish I hadn't. If only the denon had enough memory to store multiple presets!

Thoughts?
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post #2706 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 04:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pinstripe View Post

How do I know if I need to change the selected db settings for each speaker? Example, IIRC Audyssey set my center to -2db.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Run a pink noise from your receiver and use SPL meter to set speaker levels.

So, you trust Audyssey to set up a detailed EQ curve over a frequency range, for each individual speaker, but you don't trust it to set relative speaker levels? So you're going to override it with some random SPL meter instead? Righty ho.
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post #2707 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

So, you trust Audyssey to set up a detailed EQ curve over a frequency range, for each individual speaker, but you don't trust it to set relative speaker levels? So you're going to override it with some random SPL meter instead? Righty ho.

Why would you call SPL meter reading "random"? So you trust your sub level to Aydyssey as well? I think not!

I want to hear opinions from people who don't have a dog in the fight.
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post #2708 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

Here is my dilemma:

but last night while watching some moves I was really impressed with the sound with the carpeting....
Thoughts?

IMHO if you like how it sounds, do not touch it!!
However, should you need to redo Audyssey for any reason, you are f.... up because you can not go back with your precarpeting settings, so...go ahead and redo audyssey. It may improve!!!
ciao
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post #2709 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 04:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enzo-ita View Post

IMHO if you like how it sounds, do not touch it!!
However, should you need to redo Audyssey for any reason, you are f.... up because you can not go back with your precarpeting settings, so...go ahead and redo audyssey. It may improve!!!
ciao

Yes I know I can't go back....which is what holds me back. What do you all think about my reasoning in terms of the center channel improving dramatically the last time I ran audessy b/c I but the mic more in direct line with it? My main concern is that being reproducible, b/c the previous 15 tries all ended up with the same harshness from the center.
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post #2710 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srtech View Post

Can't determine if this is 'normal' or not:

When bitstreaming (Dolby TRUEHD) to my Onkyo 605, the Audyssey indicator goes out. Does this mean that Audyssey is disabled under that condition? If so, that's kind of a bummer. It seems to remain on under PCM input.

Thanks.

Yes. I don't remember which thread I saw it in but apparently the lower end Onkyo's (definitely including the 605) don't have enough processing power to decode lossless codecs (True-HD and DTS-HD MA) and do their other processing at the same time. I'm pretty sure the 805 doesn't have the limitation, but I'm not sure about the 705.

If your player can do the decoding for you then your best bet is to use it that way.
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post #2711 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 05:55 PM
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Mr. Audyssey or anyone: I posted this over in the Onkyo New Lineup thread but thought it might get a response here:

For the past 2 decades I've only owned Sony receivers (currently have the 810). BUT I'm thinking (excited and hoping) the Audyssey on the Onkyo 606 WITH dynamic EQ might be a much better way to go. I listen at night and need to keep the dynamic range limited.

1. Any thoughts out there whether Audyssey really outperforms the Sony Digital Cinema Auto Calibration eq room setup?

2. And is the Audyssey Dynamic EQ is really better than a Loudness button?

3. Final question, if they come out with an Onkyo 706 with Audyssey Multi EQ like the 705; is 'Multi EQ' that much better than the less endowed Audyssey 2EQ?

Thanks for any responses.
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post #2712 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

Mr. Audyssey or anyone: I posted this over in the Onkyo New Lineup thread but thought it might get a response here:

For the past 2 decades I've only owned Sony receivers (currently have the 810). BUT I'm thinking (excited and hoping) the Audyssey on the Onkyo 606 WITH dynamic EQ might be a much better way to go. I listen at night and need to keep the dynamic range limited.

1. Any thoughts out there whether Audyssey really outperforms the Sony Digital Cinema Auto Calibration eq room setup?

2. And is the Audyssey Dynamic EQ is really better than a Loudness button?

3. Final question, if they come out with an Onkyo 706 with Audyssey Multi EQ like the 705; is 'Multi EQ' that much better than the less endowed Audyssey 2EQ?

Thanks for any responses.

I can't comment on the Sony EQ beyond suggesting that if it tests multiple seats and corrects in both time and frequency domains, it might compete with Audyssey. But, I think we'd see mention of it in this forum if it can really compete (i.e., there would be some comparisons).

Yes, the Audyssey Dynamic EQ is the ultimate loudness button. It does much more than insert some filters to bring up the low end, it varies the SPL across the whole of the frequency spectrum in accordance with the typical ear's sensitivity variations with amplitude. I.e., the compensation varies with the volume setting because the ear's sensitivity varies with volume.

But, Dynamic EQ is not going to help with your need to keep the volume down to accommodate family or neighbors. In fact, it will do the opposite. For instance, the low end will not drop off as much when you turn the volume down (it's being boosted relative to the mid-range because of the ear's loss in sensitivity at the low end). There are related changes at the high end but they shouldn't be a problem for the neighbors. You'll have to turn the volume down more when using Dynamic EQ than when not using it.

What you need to help out with the neighbor problem is the Audyssey Dynamic Volume feature. It's a form of compression, but works with Dynamic EQ to optimize the listening experience while accommodating the neighbors.

To be honest, I haven't yet experienced Dynamic Volume, but if it works half as well as Dynamic EQ, it will be very helpful in your situation.

Harrison
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post #2713 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 07:47 PM
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Thanks hclarkx;

1. Would the midnight mode on a receiver work with dynamic eq? I'm not so much concerned with the bass extension as I am in limiting the dynamic range.

2. I don't think the new Onkyo 706 will have the audyssey dynamic volume; but if it does, is dynamic volume the same as midnight mode?
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post #2714 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 08:43 PM
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Hi Chis...RayJr or others. I have an Integra dtr 8.8 and am about to update it with the new 1.08 firmware update. I have had the audyssey pro calibration done and saved it as recommend. Some have said that the 1.08 firmware does not lose the settings...but with this update is a DSP update to solve the DTS HD-MA "Bomb" or "Pop" problem. Some have said that this update removes all settings. Not sure. Chris could you confirm with Onkyo/Integra what happens to saved audyssey settings with this update. If I do lose the Pro calibration settings can I have the calibrations reloaded with out the cost of having the total Pro setup done again...which is more than I want to pay for a second time. Thanks...sorry to all those who don't care about Onkyo/Integra questions! But a lot of people are attempting this update. Chris...does the Onkyo firmward contain an audyssey update. Some are suggesting that is does...but this has not been confirmed.

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post #2715 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by drmiller View Post

Hi Chis...RayJr or others. I have an Integra dtr 8.8 and am about to update it with the new 1.08 firmware update. I have had the audyssey pro calibration done and saved it as recommend. Some have said that the 1.08 firmware does not lose the settings...but with this update is a DSP update to solve the DTS HD-MA "Bomb" or "Pop" problem. Some have said that this update removes all settings. Not sure. Chris could you confirm with Onkyo/Integra what happens to saved audyssey settings with this update. If I do lose the Pro calibration settings can I have the calibrations reloaded with out the cost of having the total Pro setup done again...which is more than I want to pay for a second time. Thanks...sorry to all those who don't care about Onkyo/Integra questions! But a lot of people are attempting this update. Chris...does the Onkyo firmward contain an audyssey update. Some are suggesting that is does...but this has not been confirmed.

Dale,

I can confirm that there are no Audyssey updates in the new firmware. The last Audyssey-related update came from Onkyo when they enabled the MultEQ Pro calibration (I don't know the firmware version...). I can't say what the effects of this update will be on saved settings. Integra assured us that the following method saves Audyssey settings "permanently".

TO STORE SETTINGS (must be done first,otherwise the recall will not have anything to recall):
Turn the unit on.
From the front panel- Push and hold "Setup", then Push "Enter". The unit will display "Setup Store?", push "Enter" again and the unit will display "Setup Storing", then it will display "Complete" and thus the procedure is complete.

TO RECALL SETTINGS:
Turn the unit on.
From the front panel- Push and hold "Setup", then Push "Return". The unit will display "Setup Recall?", push "Return" again and the unit will display "Setup Recalling", then it will display "Complete" and thus the procedure is complete.

Chris

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post #2716 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

So, you trust Audyssey to set up a detailed EQ curve over a frequency range, for each individual speaker, but you don't trust it to set relative speaker levels? So you're going to override it with some random SPL meter instead? Righty ho.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Why would you call SPL meter reading "random"? So you trust your sub level to Aydyssey as well? I think not!

SPL readings are fine if done correctly. One must use narrowband noise (500 Hz to 2000 Hz) in order to minimize room interaction. This can give you reasonable accuracy (within 1 dB). But using an SPL meter for the subwoofer is totally useless. There is some hope of getting within a few dB if you have a way of taking several measurements and averaging them. The best signal to use for that is the bandlimited test noise in receivers. But using a CD with sine tones and an SPL meter in one position, is pretty close to "random". Your measurements can be off by 6-10 dB easily.

Does your current sub level not match the level of the satellites?

Chris

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post #2717 of 72841 Old 03-29-2008, 10:35 PM
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It set my Center at -3 db, i have the Rti 8s as my fronts and Csi3 as my center and i am currently finding my center at too low a level...esp since i need to keep my volume low at night when im watching more, it seems my mains either drown out my center or the center is just hard to hear...

It has my fronts at -5db and set everything at Full Band...

I just adjusted my center to +1 and now its making voices that much easier to hear

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post #2718 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 12:06 AM
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Well, got my Onkyo Pro 885 and ran a lazy 3 position Audyssey that I thought sounded pretty good. Decided today to run a more thorough 8 position curve and ended up with metallic, robot sounding voices that, while funny sounding, are almost unintelligible.

It's late tonight so I'll redo it tomorrow, but any ideas where I went wrong?

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post #2719 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 12:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Well, got my Onkyo Pro 885 and ran a lazy 3 position Audyssey that I thought sounded pretty good. Decided today to run a more thorough 8 position curve and ended up with metallic, robot sounding voices that, while funny sounding, are almost unintelligible.

It's late tonight so I'll redo it tomorrow, but any ideas where I went wrong?

John

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Could be any number of reasons. You could read this thread for pointers, but running it again will be faster.
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post #2720 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 12:58 AM
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Chris,
Have you tried doubling up an "onboard" Audyssey Pro and the Pro in the SEQ? I'm toying with the idea because of my set up. Thinking of using the SEQ for the mains and their subs, (set to flat for 2ch) and then possibly running the 9.8's Audyssey Pro over top for the 7.1 set up. Any potential issues there?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1965
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post #2721 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 01:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tocaje View Post

Thanks hclarkx;

1. Would the midnight mode on a receiver work with dynamic eq? I'm not so much concerned with the bass extension as I am in limiting the dynamic range.

2. I don't think the new Onkyo 706 will have the audyssey dynamic volume; but if it does, is dynamic volume the same as midnight mode?

I think you would have to move up receiver-wise to get Dynamic Volume, or wait until it percolates down to the 700 series which seems likely at some point. I've seen speculation on this site that firmware updates might bring such new features, but have no idea when or to what receivers if that's true.

I'm pretty sure the Audyssey room correction is not disabled by turning on the night mode in any receiver. That's when you need it more than ever. I suppose a manufacturer might use the same DSPs to do the compression and the room correction but not both at the same time, but I would hope not. I'd shy away from any receiver that did that. It's probably a separate and relatively automatic gain control in most receivers, something much simpler than the way Audyssey does it.

Yes, dynamic volume is effectively a more sophisticated way of doing the night mode. Read about it here .....http://www.audyssey.com/technology/dynamicvolume.html

Harrison
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post #2722 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 01:48 AM
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I want to rephrase the question.

Chris is there any chance for a flat audysey curve to be implemented in the future firmware fixes?

I find it annoying to think Onkyo decided Audyssey calibration in these receivers should be used for watching movies only, that is what the omittance of flat curve means. ( or the remote possibility that they think Audyssey is not good for music listening )

The silly thing is, had they implemented the flat curve, we would always have the option to select the rolloff curve by the reEQ function. Now we have to dance around several functions and give up stereo listening to take advantage of Audyssey.

Above everything, in regards to music, this means we are getting a crippled Audyssey function. I think they should have listed this in the specs. Frankly my usage of this equipment is more on the music side and not on the HT side.

I think Audyssey should not let Onkyo to use MultiEQ as a marketing pitch, they should add something to the name of the feature, such as MultiEQ Cinema, for this restricted application.

First, it is not doing justice to other manufacturers as Denon who have implemented this technology in full capability, secondly, it would not deceive the music enthusiasts, who are looking for Audyssey capability for their room corrections, into buying this gear.
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post #2723 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

Yes I know I can't go back....which is what holds me back. What do you all think about my reasoning in terms of the center channel improving dramatically the last time I ran audessy b/c I but the mic more in direct line with it? My main concern is that being reproducible, b/c the previous 15 tries all ended up with the same harshness from the center.

Your center speaker should be directed to the level of your ears. You can use a laser pointer which is in parrallel with the axis of your drivers to ensure this.

My guess is that right now, your center speaker is probably pointed too low and that's why you get that harsh sounding result.

When you lowered the mic while doing Audyssey readings, that had a similar effect as pointing the speaker up, but you really should adjust the center speaker instead.
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post #2724 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Dale,

I can confirm that there are no Audyssey updates in the new firmware. The last Audyssey-related update came from Onkyo when they enabled the MultEQ Pro calibration (I don't know the firmware version...). I can't say what the effects of this update will be on saved settings. Integra assured us that the following method saves Audyssey settings "permanently".

TO STORE SETTINGS (must be done first,otherwise the recall will not have anything to recall):
Turn the unit on.
From the front panel- Push and hold "Setup", then Push "Enter". The unit will display "Setup Store?", push "Enter" again and the unit will display "Setup Storing", then it will display "Complete" and thus the procedure is complete.

TO RECALL SETTINGS:
Turn the unit on.
From the front panel- Push and hold "Setup", then Push "Return". The unit will display "Setup Recall?", push "Return" again and the unit will display "Setup Recalling", then it will display "Complete" and thus the procedure is complete.

Chris

Chris,

If I get the MultEQ Pro done to an Onkyo receiver, does it give you the option for Dynamic EQ like the Denon Receivers? I have not seen anything on this.

Thanks!
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post #2725 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by streetsmart88 View Post

Your center speaker should be directed to the level of your ears. You can use a laser pointer which is in parrallel with the axis of your drivers to ensure this.

My guess is that right now, your center speaker is probably pointed too low and that's why you get that harsh sounding result.

When you lowered the mic while doing Audyssey readings, that had a similar effect as pointing the speaker up, but you really should adjust the center speaker instead.

That's the problem, I can't tilt the speaker up. There just isn't any headroom. So lowering the mic is really the only option.
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post #2726 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex solomon View Post

Run a pink noise from your receiver and use SPL meter to set speaker levels.

I don't have and spl meter. To be honest, I had no trouble hearing all of the dialog while watching transformers, but I can play and see.

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

SPL readings are fine if done correctly. One must use narrowband noise (500 Hz to 2000 Hz) in order to minimize room interaction. This can give you reasonable accuracy (within 1 dB).



Does your current sub level not match the level of the satellites?

Chris

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post #2727 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Dale,

I can confirm that there are no Audyssey updates in the new firmware. The last Audyssey-related update came from Onkyo when they enabled the MultEQ Pro calibration (I don't know the firmware version...).

Chris

Like many users here I really appreciate the time you take to answer queries. I think the results of the Audyssey calibration are amazing and I've been able to get a much better result from the techniques discussed here.

Something I haven't been able to establish is which Onkyo models have had the Pro version added via firmware updates ? I have a 875 and would love to be able to do a Pro calibration on it, but I haven't been able to find any info on whether this feature has been added with the firmware updates. Equally I'm unclear if the Pro update also adds the Dynamic Eq which sounds like it would be another "must have" feature from Audyssey ?

Thanks,
Dave.
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post #2728 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 08:45 AM
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Originally Posted by curlyjive View Post

That's the problem, I can't tilt the speaker up. There just isn't any headroom. So lowering the mic is really the only option.

Nope. Leave the mic where it is and Audyssey will attempt a correction. Moving the mic down prevents that.

Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #2729 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by rnrgagne View Post

You shouldn't have bought lite beer!

Could be any number of reasons. You could read this thread for pointers, but running it again will be faster.

I was actually drinking Hefervisen so maybe that's where I went wrong

The funny part was that I dug out my trusty tripod to get the mic at actual ear level vs the first time when I just set it on the top of the seatbacks. Also, when I ran the DD calibration on my Velodyne sub, it measured the flattest bass I've ever had in my room, not more than 1dB variance from 15Hz on up. At least in my room, Audyssey did fairly magical things to the low end. The problem is with the mids and above. I'll report back after I run it again as I'm off to the tennis courts.

Too bad there's not an Audyssey calibration for my backhand ...

John

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post #2730 of 72841 Old 03-30-2008, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by John Robert View Post

Well, got my Onkyo Pro 885 and ran a lazy 3 position Audyssey that I thought sounded pretty good. Decided today to run a more thorough 8 position curve and ended up with metallic, robot sounding voices that, while funny sounding, are almost unintelligible.

It's late tonight so I'll redo it tomorrow, but any ideas where I went wrong?

John

It's likely because you took the additional measurements too far off-axis. Keep the measurements within a couple of feet around the main listening seat and you will get much better results. If you search back a few pages you will see more discussion on this.

Chris

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