The Official: Denon 3808ci & 4308ci HDMI 1.3 thread. - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkgriffin View Post

It is confirmed that the new Blu-Ray player does not play DVD-A and SACD. There is a thread in the Blu-Ray forum with up close pictures. Sadly, no DVD-A, SACD and Denon Link 3.

Very easy... no DVD-A, SACD... then i buy no Blue-Ray from DENON.....

For me today a Player > 1500$ has to Play Blue-Ray HD-DVD DVD SACD DVD-Audio CD .....

I think i take a PS3.... BlueRay and SACD incl.....
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post #1892 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict View Post

Throw us hi res music fans a bone.

WOW! Looks like I will be keeping my Denon 2900 for my SACD/DVD Audio music.
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post #1893 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex1971 View Post

Very easy... no DVD-A, SACD... then i buy no Blue-Ray from DENON.....

For me today a Player > 1500$ has to Play Blue-Ray HD-DVD DVD SACD DVD-Audio CD .....

I think i take a PS3.... BlueRay and SACD incl.....

Why do we need these features such as SACD decoding or upscaling in a DVD player if we're buying a receiver that has it all? To me it makes much more sense to buy a $500 Blu-ray player such as PS3 and let the receiver handle the rest.
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post #1894 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 07:23 AM
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I didn't see the following answered in the 4308 manual. Hoping someone knows or maybe saw it in there somewhere.

1) Since the 4308 has built-in support for SACD and DVD-Audio, do you still need a player that supports these formats?

2) Any info on how to setup the PC for the Media features (music,image) of the 4308?

3) In the Denon interview, they mentioned iTunes support but nothing in the manual. Any info on this?

Thanks

Mike

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post #1895 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BinaryLinguist View Post

I didn't see the following answered in the 4308 manual. Hoping someone knows or maybe saw it in there somewhere.
Mike

1) Since the 4308 has built-in support for SACD and DVD-Audio, do you still need a player that supports these formats?

--- yes, player still has to be able to read the SACD layer (I assume same for DVD-A) to send the bits over the output port and isn't this supported only over the Denon D-link (which is proprietary)? Sony has similar type of proprietary cable/port on its 9900(9000?) top of line dvd player and its old 7200es receiver and looks like not on any later receivers like the 5200es

2) Any info on how to setup the PC for the Media features (music,image) of the 4308?
--- isn't there a software CD for a PC client? if so, probably on the cd

3) In the Denon interview, they mentioned iTunes support but nothing in the manual. Any info on this?

--- don't know, sorry

ps, I see the 5300es is now on Sony's web site!

sony 5300es
Thanks

Phil Tomaskovic
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post #1896 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by schwock5 View Post

$2,000 for a blu ray player. seems steep, especially since the format war isn't over.

But then again, it's only $500 above the 3930, which is one of the best audio / video DVD players out there. So really, you're getting that plus a $500 blu ray player.

still a lot of money

My opinion? That price is absolutely NUTS! It will be the most expensive BR player by far and offer nothing more than any other top of the line player pricing for a lot less. Even if the format war were over, that price is still nuts IMO.
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post #1897 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 08:20 AM
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Somebody asked the question earlier as to whether Audyssey would work out of the pre-outs..ie...with an outboard amp. I would like to know this as well, since I used Quad Active (bi-amped) speakers. If it doesn't work, I'll have to take a pass...sigh...
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post #1898 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 08:39 AM
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I called Ultimate Electronics and their main Denver warehouse was slated for supply of 3808 on July 31st. Should be at their stores the next week.
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post #1899 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 09:11 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

My opinion? That price is absolutely NUTS! It will be the most expensive BR player by far and offer nothing more than any other top of the line player pricing for a lot less. Even if the format war were over, that price is still nuts IMO.

Ditto. Get a PS3, play games, watch BR, and it even upconverts now all for 500 bucks
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post #1900 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theranman View Post

Somebody asked the question earlier as to whether Audyssey would work out of the pre-outs..ie...with an outboard amp. I would like to know this as well, since I used Quad Active (bi-amped) speakers. If it doesn't work, I'll have to take a pass...sigh...

I can't speak for the newer 3808, but the Audyssey works fine with my AMP on the older 3805 as a pre-pro.

Geek
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post #1901 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alex1971 View Post

Very easy... no DVD-A, SACD... then i buy no Blue-Ray from DENON.....

For me today a Player > 1500$ has to Play Blue-Ray HD-DVD DVD SACD DVD-Audio CD .....

I think i take a PS3.... BlueRay and SACD incl.....


Why use DL3 when all can be transfered using the HDMI 1.3 port on de 3800.
I wouldn´t be suprised if thats the case!

Since:
Version 1.1 was released in May 2004.
Version 1.2 was released in August of 2005.
Version 1.2a was released in December of 2005.
Version 1.3 was released in June of 2006.

HDMI 1.1
Support for DVD Audio

HDMI 1.2
Adds features and capabilities that increase HDMI's appeal for use in both the CE and PC industries. Specifically, the features and modifications for HDMI 1.2 include:
Support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital)

Does HDMI support SACD?

HDMI has supported One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital), since version 1.2 (released in August, 2005). Customers interested in this feature should make sure that their device supports SACD.



PerS
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post #1902 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 09:47 AM
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I said this in the 3800BDCI thread. I don't understand why so many people get upset when manufacturers drop certain features over time. This is suppose to be the latest and greatest product. SACD/DVD-A was not the biggest success to say the least. It was a matter of time before this was to get phased out. I don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of mini-disck or this not being a vcr combo?
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post #1903 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MagnoliaPro2 View Post

I said this in the 3800BDCI thread. I don't understand why so many people get upset when manufacturers drop certain features over time. This is suppose to be the latest and greatest product. SACD/DVD-A was not the biggest success to say the least. It was a matter of time before this was to get phased out. I don't hear anyone complaining about the lack of mini-disck or this not being a vcr combo?

I agree with this. I think what is about to happen (and will most likely be unveiled at CES) is an industry-wide standard for High Res Audio Recording. I believe the Mini Blu-ray discs might be the thing they choose for 5.1 audio recordings. It sets itself apart from CDs and looks cool and that might be enough to get people to buy the product. Those with Blu-ray players will be able to play it.


No animals were harmed in the creation of this sentence.
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post #1904 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:27 AM
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$1600 for Denon 3808, i would expect 6 HDMI inputs or more and all component/RCA/S-inputs removed. Period.
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post #1905 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pers1 View Post

Why use DL3 when all can be transfered using the HDMI 1.3 port on de 3800.
I wouldn´t be suprised if thats the case!

Since:
Version 1.1 was released in May 2004.
Version 1.2 was released in August of 2005.
Version 1.2a was released in December of 2005.
Version 1.3 was released in June of 2006.

HDMI 1.1
Support for DVD Audio

HDMI 1.2
Adds features and capabilities that increase HDMI's appeal for use in both the CE and PC industries. Specifically, the features and modifications for HDMI 1.2 include:
Support for One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital)

Does HDMI support SACD?

HDMI has supported One Bit Audio format, such as SuperAudio CD's DSD (Direct Stream Digital), since version 1.2 (released in August, 2005). Customers interested in this feature should make sure that their device supports SACD.

PerS

DL3 was nice for those of use who like to run HDMI directly to the display and not through a receiver. Though, not sure if DL3 could even support things like TrueHD and DTS-MA. So leaving DL3 off might not be that big of a deal.

Leaving SACD off is a big deal. They could have easily included it and sent it over HDMI via PCM or bitstream DSD to the receiver. You have to remember that this player is targeted to a minority group of AV users who have custom installs done. Most of those same people have the money for large SACD collections. Even the 1940 DVD player they announce yesterday still had SACD.

Anyway, I don't want to get anymore off topic on this thread. I will take my comments to the Blu-Ray forum. Back to talking about Denon receivers here!
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post #1906 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videophiles09 View Post

$1600 for Denon 3808, i would expect 6 HDMI inputs or more and all component/RCA/S-inputs removed. Period.

Agreed. All the latest receivers feature a wide array of rca inputs, none of which are likely to be used. Meanwhile, I have to buy an hdmi switch because it only has 4 inputs.

The same is true for optical vs. coax digital. Really, the only devices that have coax are high end dvd players, everything else uses optical. Why can't they have 1 coax and 5 optical instead of 3 and 3 is beyond me. I have to buy a converter cause I don't have enough optical inputs.
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post #1907 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by TVAddict View Post

Agreed. All the latest receivers feature a wide array of rca inputs, none of which are likely to be used. Meanwhile, I have to buy an hdmi switch because it only has 4 inputs.

The same is true for optical vs. coax digital. Really, the only devices that have coax are high end dvd players, everything else uses optical. Why can't they have 1 coax and 5 optical instead of 3 and 3 is beyond me. I have to buy a converter cause I don't have enough optical inputs.

Almost every cable box, DVD player and some CD players made current have coax audio now. Plus many perfer coax to optical so I believe that is why it is 3/3.

What possibly could you be using where you fill up 4 HDMI and more than 3 optical (and can't use some of the coax) inputs?
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post #1908 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:49 AM
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only 4 HDMI inputs??? i need at least 6 for:

2 DVRs
1 HDDVD
1 Bluray
1 DVD changer
1 PS3
and maybe future TIVOs???
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post #1909 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rkgriffin View Post

Almost every cable box, DVD player and some CD players made current have coax audio now. Plus many perfer coax to optical so I believe that is why it is 3/3.

What possibly could you be using where you fill up 4 HDMI and more than 3 optical (and can't use some of the coax) inputs?

I do prefer to coax myself but right now I have a single device that has it - old sony dvd player. While I have optical in xbox, dish receiver, replaytv and toshiba A20 player I just bought to replace sony. I know toshiba top of the line hd player has coax but lower end models do not. Neither does any dish receiver. I have a pioneer dvd and bought one for my parents and neither had coax.
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post #1910 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:13 AM
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Other than the number of HDMI inputs (four is plenty for me), what do folks think about the Sony 5300ES versus the Denon 3808? Specifically, is the Faroudja DCDi Cinema chip in the 5300ES the same as the one in the Denon?
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post #1911 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:20 AM
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videophiles09, what are you talking about? If you look at the price of the receivers that have come out before from Denon, which some of the high end ones had only 2 or 3 HDMI inputs, were more expensive than $1600. Also, you can get the 3808CI a few hundred dollars cheaper if you shop around like at jr.com(you have to call) and BB Magnolia price matches as well.
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post #1912 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shawndover View Post

Other than the number of HDMI inputs (four is plenty for me), what do folks think about the Sony 5300ES versus the Denon 3808? Specifically, is the Faroudja DCDi Cinema chip in the 5300ES the same as the one in the Denon?

It was stated before in this or another thread that the Sony 5300 would have a more advanced Faroudja chipset than is present in the Denons. I don't remember the name or the number of the chipset.
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post #1913 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by ryarber View Post

It was stated before in this or another thread that the Sony 5300 would have a more advanced Faroudja chipset than is present in the Denons. I don't remember the name or the number of the chipset.

That's unfortunate. It's becoming harder and harder to justify buying the Denon.
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post #1914 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ryarber View Post

It was stated before in this or another thread that the Sony 5300 would have a more advanced Faroudja chipset than is present in the Denons. I don't remember the name or the number of the chipset.

The Sony STR-DA5200ES used the Cortez Advanced (FLI8668), Faroudja's best "high-end" solution. There were a lot of issues with its output, as reported in this review.

Faroudja introduced the Torino (FLI30336/436) earlier this year to address some criticisms with that chip's output. I haven't seen what the 5300 uses.
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post #1915 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The Sony STR-DA5200ES used the Cortez Advanced (FLI8668), Faroudja's best "high-end" solution. There were a lot of issues with its output, as reported in this review.

Faroudja introduced the Torino (FLI30336/436) earlier this year to address some criticisms with that chip's output. I haven't seen what the 5300 uses.

It's on Sony's site now but only says "DCDi Cinema"
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post #1916 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by rkgriffin View Post

It's on Sony's site now but only says "DCDi Cinema"

Sony said the same thing for the 5200.

The Cortez Lite, Cortez, Cortez Advanced (5200), and the Torino are all considered "DCDi Cinema" parts, so that really doesn't tell us anything.
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post #1917 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by videophiles09 View Post

only 4 HDMI inputs??? i need at least 6 for:

2 DVRs
1 HDDVD
1 Bluray
1 DVD changer
1 PS3
and maybe future TIVOs???

Check out the new Sony STR-DA5300ES due out in September http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/...52921665186458. It has 6 HDMI inputs and 1 out......kinda' like you're looking for.
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post #1918 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

The Sony STR-DA5200ES used the Cortez Advanced (FLI8668), Faroudja's best "high-end" solution. There were a lot of issues with its output, as reported in this review.

Faroudja introduced the Torino (FLI30336/436) earlier this year to address some criticisms with that chip's output. I haven't seen what the 5300 uses.

The CNET review for this model says in the 'Video Performance' paragraph: "We knocked the 5200 pretty hard for its video-processing issues, and we're happy to report that Sony has addressed them with the 5300ES....To Sony's credit, the company addressed our major video quality concerns on the 5200ES, making the 5300ES completely recommendable from a video quality perspective."

No details on the chip are given in the above review (or I couldn't find it).
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post #1919 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 01:55 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jigesh View Post

The CNET review for this model says in the 'Video Performance' paragraph: "We knocked the 5200 pretty hard for its video-processing issues, and we're happy to report that Sony has addressed them with the 5300ES....To Sony's credit, the company addressed our major video quality concerns on the 5200ES, making the 5300ES completely recommendable from a video quality perspective."

No details on the chip are given in the above review (or I couldn't find it).

How did this go from a Denon to a Sony thread?
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post #1920 of 2596 Old 07-25-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bfdtv View Post

Sony said the same thing for the 5200.

The Cortez Lite, Cortez, Cortez Advanced (5200), and the Torino are all considered "DCDi Cinema" parts, so that really doesn't tell us anything.

Thanks for the info bfdtv. It's nice to have people on AVS that always know what they are talking about and give good info/advice.
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