2007 Onkyo AVR (TX-NR905, TX-SR875,805,705,605,575,505) Anticipation Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 7304 Old 04-22-2007, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jizaref1 View Post

Let me see if I got this:
So no uncompressed audio can pass over toslink?
Current uncompressed/lossless audio formats include PCM/TrueHD, etc.
The PS3 can process (or, after eventual firmware updates, will process) all of this uncompressed audio data and send via HDMI only.
The only way a receiver can make use of lossless audio is to receive it via HDMI *and* be able to process it - the 605 can do this, but the 505 cannot.

Is this correct?

Yep.

In actuality though toslink can support uncompressed audio, but only up to 2 channels.
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post #542 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

You got it. Receivers can also receive these uncompressed signals via analog multi-channel-ins as well, a connection which the PS3 does not have. When a receiver receives a signal in this manner all of the decoding is done in the player and sent to the receiver. The 605 has the advantage of doing the decoding internally rather that relying on the dvd player, which the 505 does not.

Stupid question here, do you know of any discs now or down the road that will send uncompressed audio?

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post #543 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 05:46 AM
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I have heard of receivers having issues with 6 ohms speakers. Does anybody know of such issues in 604. I am just wondering if there are issues in 604 it may still be in 605.

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post #544 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 05:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

Stupid question here, do you know of any discs now or down the road that will send uncompressed audio?

Every Blu-ray Disc with either PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA will allow the player to send it because they are authored in basic mode. Most HD DVDs are authored in advanced content mode (which BDs should be using eventually), so they won't permit the audio to pass as bitstream (they have to be decoded in the player).
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post #545 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

Every Blu-ray Disc with either PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA will allow the player to send it because they are authored in basic mode. Most HD DVDs are authored in advanced content mode (which BDs should be using eventually), so they won't permit the audio to pass as bitstream (they have to be decoded in the player).

SirDrex, thanks for the clarification

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post #546 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirDrexl View Post

Every Blu-ray Disc with either PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD MA will allow the player to send it because they are authored in basic mode. Most HD DVDs are authored in advanced content mode (which BDs should be using eventually), so they won't permit the audio to pass as bitstream (they have to be decoded in the player).

Correct Indeed SirDrexl. This is exactly why hdmi 1.1 & 1.2 user shouldn't be kicking themselves just yet. It looks like the Toshiba HD-XA2 is the only player on the market that will be able to send a high resolution signal bitstream.

I love the advancement of technology. But with these new codecs and hdmi 1.3, everytime we take one step forward, it feels like two steps backwards.

They'll work it out eventually.

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post #547 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 06:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

I have heard of receivers having issues with 6 ohms speakers. Does anybody know of such issues in 604. I am just wondering if there are issues in 604 it may still be in 605.

This was discussed earlier in the thread. The 604 is one of those receivers that just seems to get it right when handling LFE via hdmi. There have been no reported issues with the 604. Happy Hunting

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post #548 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Monger View Post

The PS3 can pass pcm over hdmi, but you need a reciever that can take the audio off of hdmi. That is where the need for the 605 comes in.

The hdmi inputs on the 505 are for video only.

This may be a dumb question, but is this simply what one would call "true HDMI switching" done by the 605? Instead of just being a pass-trough...
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post #549 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

Stupid question here, do you know of any discs now or down the road that will send uncompressed audio?

What do you mean by "uncompressed"?

If by "uncompressed" you mean lossless or decoded, it can be sent by sent by all players as LPCM over HDMI.
If you meant "bitstream" (compressed or uncompressed), SirDrexl covered it.

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post #550 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

What do you mean by "uncompressed"?

If by "uncompressed" you mean lossless or decoded, it can be sent by sent by all players as LPCM over HDMI.
If you meant "bitstream" (compressed or uncompressed), SirDrexl covered it.

My error, I meant undecoded. I just wanted to confirm that the ability to send undecoded audio to a receiver for decoding lies in how the disc is authored and not in the disc player or receiver. Correct, or have I screws things up even more?

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post #551 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emptychair View Post

My error, I meant undecoded. I just wanted to confirm that the ability to send undecoded audio to a receiver for decoding lies in how the disc is authored and not in the disc player or receiver. Correct, or have I screws things up even more?

Sounds like you've got it...the content provider must permit bitstream transmission according to Dolby. Finding an actual advantage to that is another issue entirely, of course.

http://www.dolby.com/consumer/techno...HD_avrs_3.html

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post #552 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

This was discussed earlier in the thread. The 604 is one of those receivers that just seems to get it right when handling LFE via hdmi. There have been no reported issues with the 604. Happy Hunting

I am one of the guys who pre ordered the 605 as soon as it was posted at jr.com. I am replacing my JVC RX-D412B because of multi channel PCM problem I am having. It decodes multi channel PCM but the sound is very low, I have to adjust the volume gain almost 2X to have the sound as the non LPCM. I am no longer hunting Thanks.

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post #553 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

I am one of the guys who pre ordered the 605 as soon as it was posted at jr.com. I am replacing my JVC RX-D412B because of multi channel PCM problem I am having. It decodes multi channel PCM but the sound is very low, I have to adjust the volume gain almost 2X to have the sound as the non LPCM. I am no longer hunting Thanks.

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post #554 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:27 AM
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I am really curious to hear all the comments when some of the higher end models come. I have the Sony 5200 and while a nice unit it drives me nuts they have not fixed the HDMI/DVI issue. Not to mention, I cannot get uncompressed from optical right now. Hopefully the 905 will allow you to run hdmi to dvi as I have a commercial 65 inch panny plasma
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post #555 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

I am one of the guys who pre ordered the 605 as soon as it was posted at jr.com. I am replacing my JVC RX-D412B because of multi channel PCM problem I am having. It decodes multi channel PCM but the sound is very low, I have to adjust the volume gain almost 2X to have the sound as the non LPCM. I am no longer hunting Thanks.

I was under the impression that that was an issue with the player, no?

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post #556 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

I was under the impression that that was an issue with the player, no?

I dont know if it is a player issue but my HD-A2 has the latest 1.5 firmware and it is only happening on disks that are said to be in Dolby TrueHD.

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post #557 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

I am one of the guys who pre ordered the 605 as soon as it was posted at jr.com. I am replacing my JVC RX-D412B because of multi channel PCM problem I am having. It decodes multi channel PCM but the sound is very low, I have to adjust the volume gain almost 2X to have the sound as the non LPCM. I am no longer hunting Thanks.

I should have said only in Dolby TrueHD, I'm sorry.

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post #558 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:10 AM
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First, does anyone know which of these models have pre-outs so I can use my own high-end amps rather than the garbage inside those receivers?

Second, from what others have said in all these posts I am still under the assumption that all we need is HDMI 1.1 since all Blu-Ray players will not allow any external device decode the audio signal. Thats true for current Blu-Ray models and the ones thats going to be released for this x-mas season?

*Analog fans may be blind but Digital fans are deaf*
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post #559 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by stylinlp View Post

First, does anyone know which of these models have pre-outs so I can use my own high-end amps rather than the garbage inside those receivers?

Second, from what others have said in all these posts I am still under the assumption that all we need is HDMI 1.1 since all Blu-Ray players will not allow any external device decode the audio signal. Thats true for current Blu-Ray models and the ones thats going to be released for this x-mas season?

While correct about hdmi 1.1 the limitations are in the software not the hardware. Correct me if I'm wrong?

There's been no mention of preouts on their receivers but I'll assume it'll be on the 805 & up.

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post #560 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:20 AM
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Background:

I am thinking very seriously of getting one of these units, but am unsure which to consider. I would like to get something that will last for some time as far as features, but do not want to spend more than I really need to or should.

Current Components:

TV - 26" Samsung HDTV with DVI (1080i) input as well as Component, S-Video, Composite. Very happy with the picture from HDMI switcher.

HD-DVD Player - Toshiba HD-A2

Blu-ray Player - Sony PS 3

Game Machines - XBox 360, PS 3

Speakers - 7.1 available

What I want to do:

1. I would like to of course connect the above to the receiver that will give me the best audio/video possible for my current equipment.

2. I do not plan to change anything in the near future (i.e. could be a year or 2 before I upgrade my TV or HD-DVD player).

The Onkyos that I am considering:

I have given thought to purchasing all units from the 605 to the 875 (I will mention that I have a tax refund that is burning a hole in my savings account, so within reason money is not a drastic consideration).

Does it make sense with what I now have (and intend to keep for a while) to go as high as the 875, or does it make more sense to go with a unit like the 605/705? Then replace that with whatever the latest and greatest technology is at that time? Or of course, should I just forget about this all together?

Forgive the long winded posting, but just wanted to provide as much info as I could think of that might help in making any suggestions.

Thank you very much for your thoughts.

Regards,

Steve
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post #561 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinlp View Post

First, does anyone know which of these models have pre-outs so I can use my own high-end amps rather than the garbage inside those receivers?

Second, from what others have said in all these posts I am still under the assumption that all we need is HDMI 1.1 since all Blu-Ray players will not allow any external device decode the audio signal. Thats true for current Blu-Ray models and the ones thats going to be released for this x-mas season?

Troll much?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinlp
Well well, since we will NOT be needing HDMI 1.3 at all for any of the next generation Blu-Ray players being released fwor x-mas season then I might as well buy myself a real high-end home theater pre-amp like a the ones below - used. I want audiophyle sound.

Cary Cinema 6 - Retailed for $2000
Anthem AVM 2 - Retailed for $2650
Anthem avm 30 - New Retail $4000.00
Audio Refinement PRE-2DSP
NuForce AVP 16

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post #562 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:31 AM
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From the first post:

"605/705/805 send Composite, S-Video, Component and HDMI IN> HDMI OUT"

Does anyone know if these models will send component signals "as is" without upconverting to the HDMI out? I believe the 674 did this. For example if I hook up my 360 using component at either 720p, 1080i, or 1080p. will it come out of the HDMI as 720p, 1080i, 1080p?
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post #563 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

While correct about hdmi 1.1 the limitations are in the software not the hardware. Correct me if I'm wrong?

There's been no mention of preouts on their receivers but I'll assume it'll be on the 805 & up.

Thanks lrsteven, the only reason I would consider using a "receiver" in my system would be if it is required to play back the higher end audio formats on a Blu-ray player. Planning on purshasing one of the new lower costing units this x-mas season. If I don't need HDMI 1.3 than that means I don't need these receivers. I can just bymyself a high-end home theater pre/amp. Upgrading from a Rotel RSP-965 preamp. My amp is the Rotel RB-985 5x100watt THX certified amp.

Monger, I am trolling for an answer to see if Im going to need HDMI 1.3 or not. It's important that I find out before I upgrade.

*Analog fans may be blind but Digital fans are deaf*
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post #564 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stylinlp View Post

Thanks lrsteven, the only reason I would consider using a "receiver" in my system would be if it is required to play back the higher end audio formats on a Blu-ray player. Planning on purshasing one of the new lower costing units this x-mas season. If I don't need HDMI 1.3 than that means I don't need these receivers. I can just bymyself a high-end home theater pre/amp. Upgrading from a Rotel RSP-965 preamp. My amp is the Rotel RB-985 5x100watt THX certified amp.

Monger, I am trolling for an answer to see if Im going to need HDMI 1.3 or not. It's important that I find out before I upgrade.

I will always take great sound quality over features. To be honest with you, my guess it that there will be Blu-ray and HD-DVD players on the market by years end that will have DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD built-in. At which point making it unnecessary to have hdmi 1.3. Except for deep color, which not be matured for another few yeaers. Just my .02.

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post #565 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

I dont know if it is a player issue but my HD-A2 has the latest 1.5 firmware and it is only happening on disks that are said to be in Dolby TrueHD.

Ahh, I see. If you have the player set to send LPCM all the time, and it isn't happening on all discs, then it's not likely the receiver at fault. Once decoded to LPCM, the receiver doesn't differentiate True HD from DD+ or even regular DD. It's all LPCM.
I know there was an overall "low audio" issue with the A2 and LPCM feeds, but I hadn't noticed since I haven't had HDMI audio hooked up yet.

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post #566 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

Ahh, I see. If you have the player set to send LPCM all the time, and it isn't happening on all discs, then it's not likely the receiver at fault. Once decoded to LPCM, the receiver doesn't differentiate True HD from DD+ or even regular DD. It's all LPCM.
I know there was an overall "low audio" issue with the A2 and LPCM feeds, but I hadn't noticed since I haven't had HDMI audio hooked up yet.

Thanks for the info in the low audio. Here is what I am experiencing. My A2 is set to auto over HDMI. When playing HD-DVD disks my receiver shows LPCM (TrueHD or Not). When playing regular DVD's my receiver will tell me either DD or DTS depending on the disks.

I'm sorry I am not very conversant in issues like this and sorry again this may have been brought up in some other threads.

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post #567 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by priesteria View Post

Thanks for the info in the low audio. Here is what I am experiencing. My A2 is set to auto over HDMI. When playing HD-DVD disks my receiver shows LPCM (TrueHD or Not). When playing regular DVD's my receiver will tell me either DD or DTS depending on the disks.

Ok, I think I see what's going on. When set to "Auto", the A2 will decode TrueHD and DD+ to LPCM for HDMI transmission. With regular DD/DTS, though, "Auto" causes it to send the undecoded bitstream over HDMI to the receiver for decoding. So it seems that the decoded LPCM streams are indeed low...or at least lower.
Try setting "HDMI" to "LPCM" on the A2, that will send all audio out as LPCM and I'd expect regular DD/DTS to be at the same level as TrueHD discs.

None of which helps with the low audio, but at least you'd know it's not the receiver.

I think.

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post #568 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

Ok, I think I see what's going on. When set to "Auto", the A2 will decode TrueHD and DD+ to LPCM for HDMI transmission. With regular DD/DTS, though, "Auto" causes it to send the undecoded bitstream over HDMI to the receiver for decoding. So it seems that the decoded LPCM streams are indeed low...or at least lower.
Try setting "HDMI" to "LPCM" on the A2, that will send all audio out as LPCM and I'd expect regular DD/DTS to be at the same level as TrueHD discs.

None of which helps with the low audio, but at least you'd know it's not the receiver.

I think.


Thanks Jack. I will do that tonight.

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post #569 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

...

I love the advancement of technology. But with these new codecs and hdmi 1.3, everytime we take one step forward, it feels like two steps backwards.

They'll work it out eventually.

Yep, probably around HDMI 1.9 at this rate.

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The mind gets too empty.

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post #570 of 7304 Old 04-23-2007, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf7 View Post

Yep, probably around HDMI 1.9 at this rate.

That's what I'm afraid of

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