Pioneer Elite VSX-90TXV, VSX-91TXH, VSX-92TXH, VSX-94TXH - Page 3 - AVS Forum
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post #61 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 03:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedi29 View Post

Then I bought the new DV-79AVi and hooked it up via HDMI , expecting a 10X`s better picture.
Well as it turned out the old DV-09 hooked up via S video was a far greater picture , that`s how good the old stuff was from Pioneer "Elite".
So what happened ?

When Secrets tested the 79AVi, they found several severe video anomalies and tested benchmarks that were worse than its predecessor, the 59AVi. I ended up repairing my 59AVi and passed on the 79. I'm not going backwards.

I agree that the Elite brand is not what it used to be. Price of trying to compete in today's market, I guess. For the last several years, Denon and the upstart pre-pros seem to be setting the pace and Pioneer is playing catch-up.

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post #62 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:08 AM
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Yup !!
That`s a real piece of A / V gear , but will the XL90 ever make it to the states ??
High price tag , but it may be worth every penny !
Will have keep my eye on this one
G.
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post #63 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:20 AM
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ss9001,
The sad part is that there is still a small market for the really great stuff that Pioneer "Elite" could make , I just don`t think it would be very likey to happen.
Like you said , they have to be able to compete.
I would have gladly paid 2K for the `79 , but it really isn`t worth 500
G.
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post #64 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:25 AM
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Even more news about the new "Elite" line , but no mention of i Link

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6441105.html?nid=2402

G.
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post #65 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:41 AM
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Here is some info on i-link here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10514362

For the lazy,

Originally Posted by Krobar
Hi Chris,

If you dont mind me asking, has Pioneer dropped ILink audio entirely now for all future products?

I just wondered if we might see a last few Ilink products from ILink's previous champion.



Hi Krobar,

Unfortunately there are no new i-link products this year..

I cannot for sure say that they are gone for good, I can tell you that the new VSX-94TXH does not have any i-link jacks...

Chris

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post #66 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis1951 View Post

Unfortunately there are no new i-link products this year..

Was chris trying to be diplomatic ? The UK site says "08" for the LC90...

Quote:
I can tell you that the new VSX-94TXH does not have any i-link jacks...

actually IMHO the 94 is far from a real "flagship" model. Not even close. MSRP 1600 is more like the 3rd in the line. Was the 59txi something like 5k ?
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post #67 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

Was chris trying to be diplomatic ? The UK site says "08" for the LC90...

You should probably ask Chris about i-link on the LC90. This page http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/sclx90/sclx90.htm has too many ? marks on it. The only thing for sure is that it has 1 ethernet outlet, the rest are blank or have a ? mark.

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post #68 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 08:00 AM
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Pioneer 989 is better from 868 in every picture aspect (european PAL versions of 59 and 79)

989 audio section is simply put in another class between the two....

I have both of them....
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post #69 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

Was chris trying to be diplomatic ? The UK site says "08" for the LC90...



actually IMHO the 94 is far from a real "flagship" model. Not even close. MSRP 1600 is more like the 3rd in the line. Was the 59txi something like 5k ?

Knowing what I paid for my 56TXi (which I still love) the prices on these units seem very reasonable given their feature set.

-Eli

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post #70 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by c722 View Post

..actually IMHO the 94 is far from a real "flagship" model. Not even close. MSRP 1600 is more like the 3rd in the line. Was the 59txi something like 5k ?

$4400 MSRP with street prices from $2850 - $4000.

And you're right the current and new line are no where close. And no Ilink? Not a good way to keep current installed base happy and in the fold. Stupid marketing!

Like I said, they've made some strange product decisions lately, including the 1st gen BD player. Networked media support but no CD playback? Not bright. AND the newly announced 2nd gen player does not seem to have DVD-A/SACD support, so can't toss my existing 59AVi. No matter what product Pioneer has announced over the past year, it seems to be missing some feature set that would have made it a clear winner. I don't get it.

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post #71 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 08:15 AM
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Still using my 56TXi as well. Pre/pro only.

- Chip
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post #72 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 08:41 AM
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Okay, so the new receivers no longer have a digital input suitable for current Super Audio CD players. Nice one. Sale lost, unless Pioneer come out with a universal player that can output DSD over HDMI, and also supports high-res audio with standard definition pictures. The only reason I've been considering Pioneer is because of i.Link.

Welcome to the wonderful world of A/V gear in 2007. They spend time and money giving us pointless frippery like TrueHD decode (what on earth does that achieve?) and iPod interfaces and remove the actually useful facilities.
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post #73 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:07 AM
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You're right on target, KMO!

Who cares about XM radio. I haven't used the FM in my receivers for nearly 15 years. But I DO care about the highest quality audio & video quality that I can afford and support for all the multichannel formats. Even tho I don't use IPod, I can see that as a useful feature for many. But for all practical purposes nearly abandoning SACD/DVD-A support is stupid. I may not be typical, but I own more DVD-A's and SACD's than all the CD's I own since CD's first came out in early 80's, so having a direct digital connection for these and not being forced to upgrade a player is important to many Pioneer owners like me.

I'm quite underwhelmed if these receivers are all the US is getting this year from Pioneer, contrasted to how I felt when the 49TXi and 59TXi came out. Those were serious pieces of hardware that nearly all reviewers said riveled separates in quality.

The amps in the 49/59 have been tested to provide far more than their rated output 2 channels driven and meeting the rated output with 5 channels driven. All reviews I've read on the 82/84 amps showed they were only capable of meeting their rated output with only 2 channels driven. With 5 channels, the real power was quite a bit less, around 70 watts or so IIRC. Even tho the 80 series had more current features, they were not the same quality as the 50 series. It initially looks like the 90 series are going to be similar.

I could envison using the 94 as a prepro and get a high powered amp, but the lack of Ilink makes it no sale for me.

ss9001

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post #74 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis1951 View Post

You should probably ask Chris about i-link on the LC90. This page http://www.avland.co.uk/pioneer/sclx90/sclx90.htm has too many ? marks on it. The only thing for sure is that it has 1 ethernet outlet, the rest are blank or have a ? mark.

If you clicked on the link and looked at the pic (hint: click on the pic to get a larger version) there is a i.Link logo on the front panel. I assumed it is i.Link for audio.

Next year is fine for me. I can wait and in the mean time save up for it Hope it will make it to the States/Canada as an Elite (or do they now have a line above Elite? TAD? Or is that just for their high-end speakers). Or I can go with the Denon 5808CI Mk II although it can only handle multi channels PCM via the HDMI 1.1 link... it did have everything else that I wanted for now and sound quality is not bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

But for all practical purposes nearly abandoning SACD/DVD-A support is stupid.

Well... HDMI 1.3 (actually from 1.2a and onwards) devices can pass-through DSD via their HDMI link. If there were a player that can output DSD via HDMI and the decoder/receiver can decode it in its native form may be it will make the missing of the i.Link audio an non-issue. However, there is no player that is available now that will output DSD via HDMI (PS3 and Oppo convert DSD to LPCM before sending it out). There is no player that has been announced that can do it... in fact, most HD video players announced or available dropped these two high-def audio formats (except for the Panasonics Blu-ray that plays DVD-A).

No connection option for my existing gears and no new player with the high-def audio formats. No go for me
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post #75 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QuadESL63 View Post

Next year is fine for me. I can wait and in the mean time save up for it

I can wait too, but this does open the door to looking at alternatives. Plus, it would be nice if we had confirmation that this beast is a real product.

ss9001

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post #76 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:27 AM
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Originally Posted by zibbyi View Post

3xHDMI on VSX-92THX is not enough

I thought the exact same thing when I was looking through the specs. Very disappointing.
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post #77 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:31 AM
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4 HDMI is the magic number minimum in today's market.

I have all 4 inputs on my ext. switcher in use and could use a 5th.

ss9001

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post #78 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by QuadESL63 View Post

Well... HDMI 1.3 (actually from 1.2a and onwards) devices can pass-through DSD via their HDMI link. If there were a player that can output DSD via HDMI and the decoder/receiver can decode it in its native form may be it will make the missing of the i.Link audio an non-issue. However, there is no player that is available now that will output DSD via HDMI (PS3 and Oppo convert DSD to LPCM before sending it out). There is no player that has been announced that can do it... in fact, most HD video players announced or available dropped these two high-def audio formats (except for the Panasonics Blu-ray that plays DVD-A).

No connection option for my existing gears and no new player with the high-def audio formats. No go for me

That's the point, isn't it. Without ILink, one is forced to use analog outputs, and deal with compromised bass mgmt in the player, or wait until a mfg. makes a full HDMI 1.3 spec player that passes DSD. So for all "practical" intents, Pioneer may be looking at SACD/DVD-A as dead and so no Ilink. Too bad, since Pioneer & Denon were the forward thinking receiver builders on the SACD/DVD-A front, which is one big reason I've been loyal to the brand. The only reason I haven't yet jumped ship to an Anthem, for example, is ILink (and cost ).

Is the new upcoming Sherwood Newcastle rec. & prepro going to have it?

ss9001

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post #79 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 10:17 AM
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What is the diff between, 90 and 91TXV?
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post #80 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 10:30 AM
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Weird that the new Elite BD player decodes DTS-MA, but not DTS HR (though could be upgraded via firmware), seeing as how it's the opposite situation on the Panny (albeit it can't be upgraded to DTS-MA).

EDIT: Sorry I read it wrong; just TrueHD out of the box, a chance of upgrade for all DTS-HD. Nothing to get too excited about is it?

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post #81 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 12:47 PM
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actually IMHO the 94 is far from a real "flagship" model. Not even close. MSRP 1600 is more like the 3rd in the line. Was the 59txi something like 5k ?

Pioneer dropped out of the esoteric AV receiver market, strictly middle of the road now. There is no money in selling receivers to a very small audience (those who don't want to be bothered with the complexity of separates but want high end). Besides you just cannot deliver the power that separates can with a receiver unless you put to AC plugs in the back.

Pioneer along with all the other Japanese makers also dropped out of the high quality amplifier in the receiver business as well to save money for the new gizmos. The thing dropped 10 pounds from the 56 to the 74/84/94 now? model. All of it came out of the capacitors and transformer. They say the amplifier is more efficient (less heat, more power) but it doesn't stand up on the bench when you put a load on all the channels.

The receivers have a higher noise floor, less channel separation, less real world power when compared to the 56 line. But they hit their features/price target.
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post #82 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 12:48 PM
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two, not to
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post #83 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 01:29 PM
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Your comments about the lower real world power is consistent with all reviews that I have read about the 84. We're back to "optimistic" power ratings due to smaller power supplies. As far as Japanese companies getting out of the high-end receiver market, we still have Denon to turn to.

But I fear you may be right that Pioneer is going mid-market. It certainly seems that way. The problem for me is that no separate prepro has ILink either, AFAIK.

Maybe they are counting on SACD/DVD-A owners buying a new player that will use HDMI for those formats. If that's so, then where are Pioneer's?

ss9001

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post #84 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 01:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Call me a novice but I was unaware that this many people used the I-link feature.
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post #85 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 02:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

The problem for me is that no separate prepro has ILink either, AFAIK.

That's exactly my reason why I didn't go to that route.

Hopefully, the rumored Denon pre-pro or flag ship receiver will still have i.Link. It is always good to have more choices.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

Maybe they are counting on SACD/DVD-A owners buying a new player that will use HDMI for those formats. If that's so, then where are Pioneer's?

But the problem is, there is no universal player w/ HDMI that can output DSD via HDMI...
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post #86 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaosphere482 View Post

Call me a novice but I was unaware that this many people used the I-link feature.

I would love to use it if I didn't have to pay a fortune for a pio player with the feature.

-Eli

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post #87 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJEli View Post

I would love to use it if I didn't have to pay a fortune for a pio player with the feature.

-Eli

What's your definition of "fortune"? I could have bought a new top-of-line DV79AVi with ILink for less than $650. Just don't try to buy one in Atlanta

For a full-featured universal player with excellent audio capabilities, I don't consider that price too much to pay.

ss9001

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post #88 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KMO View Post

Okay, so the new receivers no longer have a digital input suitable for current Super Audio CD players. Nice one. Sale lost, unless Pioneer come out with a universal player that can output DSD over HDMI, and also supports high-res audio with standard definition pictures. The only reason I've been considering Pioneer is because of i.Link.

Welcome to the wonderful world of A/V gear in 2007. They spend time and money giving us pointless frippery like TrueHD decode (what on earth does that achieve?) and iPod interfaces and remove the actually useful facilities.

Just get a Denon receiver and DVD player with Denon Link if you so desperately need the benefits of separate hi-res digital audio streams. Besides, Denon's sub-$1000 DVD player that has Denon Link is better than Pioneer's best offering in terms of overall performance.

It even seems that Denon Link will have a longer life span although it's proprietary. This is just a friendly thought in case you haven't purchased either a receiver or universal DVD player yet.
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post #89 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davio View Post

Also, can someone clarify the video processing issues for me, are these issues just with upconversion of 480 and below sources? I primarily want the pass through capability of already HD sources (such as my 360, upconvert DVD player, and soon to be HD-DVD player). Will I have a problem with passing through?

Thanks,
-Davio

I have the 84TxSi and there was a bug with at least 480p sources getting a lot darker when they were outputted over HDMI -- i'm not sure if it was an A/D problem or an upconversion problem -- but a firmware upgrade released a few months ago seems to have fixed that problem.

Xbox and PS3 name: WriterGamer
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post #90 of 1583 Old 05-11-2007, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Schwartz View Post

Damn, I was hoping for a new flagship to replace my 49TX. How does the amp section of these "top-of-the-line" Elites (84, 94, etc) compare to the old flagships (49, 59)?

Joe,
I had a 49TXi before my 84TX and the sound quality is the same.

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