Denon Preamp model AVP-A1HDCI Pictures & Info- - Page 44 - AVS Forum
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post #1291 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CETA1 View Post

What did you all own before deciding on the Denon unit?

A Sunfire TGIII.


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post #1292 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Too cool that we will both have the same combo.

Yes I will definitely check these things out for you once I have it all up and running.

First Seth, congrats! Looks great and I am sure you are very happy. Sorry I haven't been around but we decided to fill in our bedroom pocket door and make it a flat wall so the screen can be optimally placed (centered) and less light hitting it. We broke open a new doorway about 15 feet to the left for the bedroom access. Today, tomorrow, Wed we'll be finishing, texturing and painting. The AVP/POA did arrive and dealer has them. The only thing pending is the stewart screen, which I hope arrives next week and all gets delivered week after.

I now have 2 dedicated 20A circuits for this gear. Was going to get the BT2500 transport however I really wanted a unit with denon link and that will also do everything (DVD-A, SACD) and bitstream pass DTS-MA, TrueHD etc etc. I believe the unit will do the latter of that, but buying the BT2500 will have me wanting more. With the purchase of all this high end audio gear I am going to get into DVD-A, SACD and rather have 1 unit to handle all of it. Plus DenonJeff confirmed they are going to have such a unit this year.

Again congrats Seth, can't wait until I hook up everything as well.
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post #1293 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Question for you all that also own and are using your AVP's. When listening to CD's (via analog, optical, or HDMI) are you getting bass from your sub when using Direct and Pure Direct? I get excellent bass from my subs in stereo mode but once I select Direct and Pure Direct the bass quits. What do I need to do to get my subs to output bass when listening to Direct and Pure Direct?

Unfortunately when in Direct/Pure Direct Mode there is no processing which means (literally) no processing, no crossovers or any signal splitting....therefore your 2ch speakers are full range and there is no subwoofer output. Unfortunately Denon is not the only one that does this, all the major manufacturers are the same way when it comes to 'pure' modes. I agree it is very frustrating. At the minimum they should put a warning for those running smaller speakers for the front.

Chris

My HT: 60" Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD (calibration soon), Krell electronics, B&W N802s.
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post #1294 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post

Unfortunately when in Direct/Pure Direct Mode there is no processing which means (literally) no processing, no crossovers or any signal splitting....therefore your 2ch speakers are full range and there is no subwoofer output. Unfortunately Denon is not the only one that does this, all the major manufacturers are the same way when it comes to 'pure' modes. I agree it is very frustrating. At the minimum they should put a warning for those running smaller speakers for the front.

Chris

You can add a subwoofer to direct or pure direct modes as a setup option - I could in my old 3805 too
However, you do sacrifice some SQ as this brings in the processing loops of course with its AL24 stuff
Pure direct just turns off the internal video ie lcd screen I think

cheers
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post #1295 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Question for you all that also own and are using your AVP's. When listening to CD's (via analog, optical, or HDMI) are you getting bass from your sub when using Direct and Pure Direct? I get excellent bass from my subs in stereo mode but once I select Direct and Pure Direct the bass quits. What do I need to do to get my subs to output bass when listening to Direct and Pure Direct?

The sound quality is excellent in these modes I just want some bass. Just so you know I have a Martin Logan Decent sub connected to the AVP via XLR and the second sub (an ADS MS3) feeding off the Descent via RCA. I know that the subs are indeed working, as movie soundtracks really give the subs a workout, especially TrueHD and DTS-HD MA.

Any help you guys can give will be most appreciated.

Hi ohyeah

You'll be pleased to know you can run your sub with the AVP on both direct and pure direct modes
I have a rather good IB sub that I can blend into the mains, but as my mains are rather good down to 20 I don't really need to. However it can be done as I have done it, just to check. You can also turn the sub on and off from the remote.
Just connect your denon to your router and type in on your laptop browser the IP address it gives you under the network setting on the Denon. Then configure it from there - much easier (spearmint talked me through it just today) for the CD source or any other sources. Each source has its own configuration.



I understand your desire for bass hehe. I also have a second IB sub in the rear and am hoping to 'somehow' configure it to give rear explosions by perhaps running the rears as large and crossing over at 80. I haven't found yet how to do the rear crossover piece in the manual, and suspect it may be beyond the capability. But DenonJeff did say he didn't know why or how people would use 12 channels, they just provide them and sit in wonder how we enthusiasts manipulate them to use. But I know at least one guy (spearmint) who will indeed need all the 9.3 which is kinda perfect for him.
LL

cheers
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post #1296 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 05:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norpus View Post

You can add a subwoofer to direct or pure direct modes as a setup option - I could in my old 3805 too
However, you do sacrifice some SQ as this brings in the processing loops of course with its AL24 stuff
Pure direct just turns off the internal video ie lcd screen I think

That's great, thanks for the info! Can you add a high pass crossover to your front speakers too?

Chris

My HT: 60" Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD (calibration soon), Krell electronics, B&W N802s.
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post #1297 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:02 AM
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As I recall, bass management when in direct and pure direct modes is performed by an analogue low pass filter fixed at 80Hz - I'm sure that is what DenonJeff once told us, but he was most likely talking about an analogue input.

It needs a bit more investigation!

Pure direct also continues to output the HDMI video signal if the input is HDMI.
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post #1298 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post

That's great, thanks for the info! Can you add a high pass crossover to your front speakers too?

Chris

Yes my understanding is that is what it does, although not sure what slope it is giving, hopefully 24dB but I don't know.
I would set the crossover at 60Hz for your N802, so highpass to mains (relieving them and the amps of some of the tough grunt) and the woofers can then do a better job with the midbass. This is what I found when I had the 802D mixed in with my IB sub using behringer gear.
Did a great job and the mid bass was lifted nicely. In fact if you have a really good sub and placement Chris, you may even try the 80Hz crossover, as I found there was some intended bloom (B&W house sound I call it) from the port around the 60-100Hz area. (Have a look at the B&W driver/port curves and you'll see what I mean).

Note: I eventually got rid of the behringer crossover/mixer/EQ only because in 2ch was causing a hum loop with my HT connections (the sub and behringer gear was common). This AVP solves all that, much simpler. Hence its value to me. With the audussey pro, hopefully that will do the bass room correction I am now missing without the FBQ2496.
Again, a plus of the single box.
LL

cheers
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post #1299 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint View Post

When I plugged the unit it, my first thoughts were okay this doesn't sound very good, the Rotel 1098 sounded much better. I then tried 2ch in Stereo, Direct & Pure Direct modes and again I thought wow for all the hype this thing is pretty average.

Thanks for the review and comments. What did you think of the 2 channel sound quality (in 'Stereo' mode with sub) compared to the 1098? I kind of figured the AVP would probably not be as good in direct mode compared to the Moon (that's kind of a given -- nothing against the Denon by any means) but I'd be curious to compare the 1098 and AVP from a 2ch sound quality perspective.

Chris

My HT: 60" Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD (calibration soon), Krell electronics, B&W N802s.
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post #1300 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

As I recall, bass management when in direct and pure direct modes is performed by an analogue low pass filter fixed at 80Hz

That would make sense, if the option was offered, but I can't see such an option on my 4308. Any hints?
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post #1301 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

As I recall, bass management when in direct and pure direct modes is performed by an analogue low pass filter fixed at 80Hz - I'm sure that is what DenonJeff once told us, but he was most likely talking about an analogue input.

It needs a bit more investigation!

Pure direct also continues to output the HDMI video signal if the input is HDMI.

I'm only talking about an analogue input on cd - I haven't tried with digital as yet, as I am more interested in analysing its performance as a 2ch pre replacement at the moment. Sorry about the PQ on the hand held shot sans flash. Need to take it early before the pure direct switches the lcd display off. Note the SW and the AL24 are lit up on CD pure direct mode.
The crossover is definitely configurable and I have it set to 40Hz currently in direct mode (just checked)
LL

cheers
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post #1302 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 01:50 PM
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MarkB,

Thats a lot of nice gear there! One question, are you worried about the heat buildup by having the processor resting on the amp that way? How hot have you found the units to become, particularly the processor?

Remind me, those are the 802D's right?
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post #1303 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norpus View Post

I'm only talking about an analogue input on cd - I haven't tried with digital as yet, as I am more interested in analysing its performance as a 2ch pre replacement at the moment. Sorry about the PQ on the hand held shot sans flash. Need to take it early before the pure direct switches the lcd display off. Note the SW and the AL24 are lit up on CD pure direct mode.
The crossover is definitely configurable and I have it set to 40Hz currently in direct mode (just checked)

Ok, that proves it then - the bass management works in the digital domain on the analogue inputs. I wonder what happens for the XLR inputs in pure direct mode.

This unit does not simply need a user manual, it needs a reference guide!
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post #1304 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

Ok, that proves it then - the bass management works in the digital domain on the analogue inputs. I wonder what happens for the XLR inputs in pure direct mode.

This unit does not simply need a user manual, it needs a reference guide!

I'd hazard a guess and say the same as the single ended inputs. Remembering they are both analogue.

"I may not always be RIGHT, but I'm never WRONG"
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post #1305 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CFoote View Post

Thanks for the review and comments. What did you think of the 2 channel sound quality (in 'Stereo' mode with sub) compared to the 1098? I kind of figured the AVP would probably not be as good in direct mode compared to the Moon (that's kind of a given -- nothing against the Denon by any means) but I'd be curious to compare the 1098 and AVP from a 2ch sound quality perspective.

Chris

IMO the Denon is improving with hours up. The sound is very different to the Rotel, i.e. it's typically Denon, however once I rearrange my system and utilise the L/R/LFE subs, and I'm hoping the Denon will improve in the 2ch stakes since I will be removing the current external crossover being used to utilise my 2ch subs.

"I may not always be RIGHT, but I'm never WRONG"
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post #1306 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Expletive View Post

MarkB,

Thats a lot of nice gear there! One question, are you worried about the heat buildup by having the processor resting on the amp that way? How hot have you found the units to become, particularly the processor?

Remind me, those are the 802D's right?

Yes the speakers are 802D. Well the units get warm but they both contain overheat protection so I'm not worried. Hopefully my stand should be here soon so I can have each unit on it's own shelf!
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post #1307 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norpus View Post

Hi ohyeah

You'll be pleased to know you can run your sub with the AVP on both direct and pure direct modes
I have a rather good IB sub that I can blend into the mains, but as my mains are rather good down to 20 I don't really need to. However it can be done as I have done it, just to check. You can also turn the sub on and off from the remote.
Just connect your denon to your router and type in on your laptop browser the IP address it gives you under the network setting on the Denon. Then configure it from there - much easier (spearmint talked me through it just today) for the CD source or any other sources. Each source has its own configuration.

I understand your desire for bass hehe. I also have a second IB sub in the rear and am hoping to 'somehow' configure it to give rear explosions by perhaps running the rears as large and crossing over at 80. I haven't found yet how to do the rear crossover piece in the manual, and suspect it may be beyond the capability. But DenonJeff did say he didn't know why or how people would use 12 channels, they just provide them and sit in wonder how we enthusiasts manipulate them to use. But I know at least one guy (spearmint) who will indeed need all the 9.3 which is kinda perfect for him.

Thanks for letting me know that there is a way to make my subs active in Direct and Pure Direct. I tried to open the attachment which shows what I need to do, but all I'm getting is a blank page.

Thanks.


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post #1308 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 02:38 PM
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I want to be able to stream music from my PC using WMA 11, how in the world do I do this? I'm a bit stumped. I already have a CAT6 Ethernet cable connected to the AVP and the other end connected to my router. Thanks in advance.


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post #1309 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CETA1 View Post

Spearment, Mark and others:

What did you all own before deciding on the Denon unit?

Integra Research RDC-7.1, which I'll be selling as soon as the AVP-A1HDCI arrives. Before going with separates with the RDC-7.1 I had a series of Denon top-of-the-line receivers.
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post #1310 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 03:49 PM
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Here's a few pix of the AVP and BT2500 installed.







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post #1311 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I want to be able to stream music from my PC using WMA 11, how in the world do I do this? I'm a bit stumped. I already have a CAT6 Ethernet cable connected to the AVP and the other end connected to my router. Thanks in advance.

First set up WMP11 to stream music:
WMP11->Help->Contents->Organizing your digital media collection

Then set up the AVP (pp.21, pp.35, pp.61)
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post #1312 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 04:10 PM
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I would appreciate if anyone could tell me how the incorporated FM tuner is. Does it have a worthy reception and sound? Thanks
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post #1313 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

Sweet, I've got the same combo on order! If you have a chance, please check the following:

1) What AVP & DVD settings yield best PQ for SD DVD?

2) If you put an HDCD in the 2500, does the AVP recognize and decode it as HDCD?

I haven't yet gone into all the Realta processing modes, so I'm not yet sure which setting yield the best results. Will dive into all that tomorrow sometime.

I did however get to try some HDCD's on the BT2500. And yes the AVP does automatically recognize and decode them. It's sounds great BTW.



Seth


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post #1314 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted by orologio View Post

I would appreciate if anyone could tell me how the incorporated FM tuner is. Does it have a worthy reception and sound? Thanks

Yeah it does a nice job. I've already used and am satisfied.
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post #1315 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 06:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gimp View Post

First set up WMP11 to stream music:
WMP11->Help->Contents->Organizing your digital media collection

Then set up the AVP (pp.21, pp.35, pp.61)

Thank you very much for the info. I will give this a try and see how it goes.


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post #1316 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spearmint View Post

I'd hazard a guess and say the same as the single ended inputs. Remembering they are both analogue.

I agree. I have been using both xlr and rca analogue from the dac and apart from the xlr being down a few dB, I have not noticed any SQ difference either (neither should I with short cable runs). Then again, I'm running rca to the current active speakers, but will also be able to run fully balanced all the way through (one of my goals) when I get some xlr splitters and will see if it makes any difference to the noise floor. (The denon is very quiet anyway)

cheers
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post #1317 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CETA1 View Post

Spearment, Mark and others:



What did you all own before deciding on the Denon unit?

Regards-
Rick

Hi Rick

I avoided avr upgrades for a couple of years while they sorted their act out - and concentrated on the 2ch side. I was running a Denon 3805 and for hdmi switching/upscaling I used a VP30 and now VP50pro so didn't feel the pain of the old avr shortcomings in that area
Until I found these AVP were now available, I was just going to go the Denon 4308 way - as I like the denon functionality and still like the ease of denon link for my 3910. Spearmint was going to go the 4308 also, but he managed to convince himself to go the AVP and I don't think he regrets that decision from what we've discussed.
With the better dac implementation in this unit, I am expecting my Denon 3910 to take on a new lease of life on sacd. Well hoping anyway.

cheers
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post #1318 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

I haven't yet gone into all the Realta processing modes, so I'm not yet sure which setting yield the best results. Will dive into all that tomorrow sometime.

I did however get to try some HDCD's on the BT2500. And yes the AVP does automatically recognize and decode them. It's sounds great BTW.



Seth

Ohyeah, how would you rate the BT2500?
I haven't seen one in my travels

cheers
Norpus
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post #1319 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 11:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Expletive View Post

MarkB,

Thats a lot of nice gear there! One question, are you worried about the heat buildup by having the processor resting on the amp that way? How hot have you found the units to become, particularly the processor?

Funnily enough expletive, I had some thermometers out yesterday testing the temps.
My unit is out in the open and spearmint had mentioned his got quite warm inside his rack when he did not run his external fans.
Anyway, on idle it runs about 38C, which is about 15C above ambient
When a source is added and it is processing, the temp was close to 47C, almost 25C above ambient on a summers day inside.
These were measured just above (1/2") the metal top, to avoid conductive heat into the thermometer, just measuring convective.
The metal top gets quite warm to touch - probably same as my Denon 3805 when used as a prepro only - but the metal case is designed to dissipate the heat and does a good job. I think the power usage is only 150watts max, and thsi seems about right. It doesn't get as hot as some that I've observed eg Onkyos

cheers
Norpus
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post #1320 of 1467 Old 03-10-2008, 11:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norpus View Post

Ohyeah, how would you rate the BT2500?
I haven't seen one in my travels - does it have DL3?

The BT2500 is an excellent transport! And after viewing several BD movies on it over the weekend, I'd easily say that it rates up there with the very best of them. PQ and the sound! Spectacular! DTS-HD MA and TrueHD sound phenomenal through the AVP! This transport paired up with the AVP is a match made in heaven. Since it is a Transport only, the only connections it has is the HDMI, and an RS 232 port. No DenonLink3 on board.

But the BT2500's benefits are in it's simplicity. It's sole job is getting the video and audio signals out via HDMI to be decoded in the AVP. And oh what a great job it does. I have no regrets with it, and hope that it lasts me a very long time. And with a fix coming very soon to address the -5db LFE issue for LPCM, this unit should be on peoples short list of top Blu-ray players.


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