Denon Preamp model AVP-A1HDCI Pictures & Info- - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 05:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Here's a full system shot with the Denon in place

nice set-up!

So how is 2-channel stereo performance through the Denon (without exaggerating)?
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post #1352 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 06:02 PM
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I need some clarification. I need a blu ray player but I don't know what kind to get or what I need. 1st...I don't think I want to spend the money for the 2500 Denon player. I don't see myself watching that many blu ray movies right now. 2nd...do I need one that processes the new blu ray surround modes or will the AVP do that no matter what signal it gets from the blu ray player? Lastly, I would love any suggestions on a good decent player that would work well with my AVP at a lower $ than the Denon piece. Thanks so much.
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post #1353 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 06:36 PM
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Take a look at the Panasonic BD30.

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post #1354 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 07:47 PM
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Nice picture ohyeah32!! The AVP looks right at home there. Still waiting on mine...

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post #1355 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C5 View Post

Actually no. I went from a Samsung to a Pioneer, and there was a tremendous difference in picture quality. Video noise on the Samsumg looked like bubbles, where on the Pioneer it looked like - well, noise (as it should). Same system except the player (BD version of Click). Although you are correct that IF they properly designed all players, the output should look the same and the only difference would be "features". I think also until recently for instance very few players output the "true" 1080p signal (some converted to 1080i, then back to 1080p).

Hmm, but that's where it makes no sense. A transport takes the digital signal and sends it unprocessed to the receiver/decoder/etc. In this case, there can be no difference in how noise or other artifacts are treated.

Are you talking about using the Samsung and Pioneer as a pure transport like the BT2500, or are you referring to them as players, in which case they may well have entirely different approaches to, and quality of, video processing?
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post #1356 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddimberio View Post

I need some clarification. I need a blu ray player but I don't know what kind to get or what I need. 1st...I don't think I want to spend the money for the 2500 Denon player. I don't see myself watching that many blu ray movies right now. 2nd...do I need one that processes the new blu ray surround modes or will the AVP do that no matter what signal it gets from the blu ray player? Lastly, I would love any suggestions on a good decent player that would work well with my AVP at a lower $ than the Denon piece. Thanks so much.


Consider the PS3 as an option.

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post #1357 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 08:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Consider the PS3 as an option.

Just keep in mind that the PS3 doesn't bitstream DTS-HD MA (or Dolby TureHD, although it does decode that internally), can be kind of loud and has no IR remote capability...

Prices being equal, and if you aren't a game, the BD30 might be a better buy.
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post #1358 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Just keep in mind that the PS3 doesn't bitstream DTS-HD MA (or Dolby TureHD, although it does decode that internally), can be kind of loud and has no IR remote capability...

Prices being equal, and if you aren't a game, the BD30 might be a better buy.


Ah, but if he is a gamer then this is a choice to consider. Also, doesn't the PS3 play SACDs? True about the DTS-HD MA and Dolby TrueHD.

Plus it's better then IR, it's Blue Tooth! How cool is that?

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post #1359 of 1467 Old 03-11-2008, 10:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestCoastD View Post

nice set-up!

So how is 2-channel stereo performance through the Denon (without exaggerating)?

From what I've heard so far it sounds very good. What I've noticed is that the sound is very neutral, not bright or warm, but very faithful to the original recording. The Sunfire I used before this leaned more toward the warm side of things. IMO they both sound great and I wouldn't say one is better over the other. So I would describe the AVP's 2 channel performance as offering an accurate sound to CD's.


Seth
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post #1360 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:36 AM
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[quote=ohyeah32;13354002]
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Originally Posted by gimp View Post


Yikes, I hope it's not the Ethernet cable as that thing was @#!@! to run and conceal. I'm hoping that it's the router as I have been wanting to upgrade anyway. Any good recommendations for a Gigabit router? Thanks.



Seth

Another simple test, try the internet radio on the amp, pick a station the other side of the world and if that works then your little home bit of network should be okay.

Can't remember what type of files you were streaming but even uncompressed WAV files should work fine on a 10Mb network, with 100Mb you could do full DVD quality video streaming (if the Denon supported it ).

As suggested try another DLNA server package like Twonky/Nero/TVersity, remember to switch off sharing in WMP before installing thou. Also try another DLNA client if you have one, even just a laptop with software will do.

Just to test the cable try a laptop and copy some large files off your main PC and see how fast it goes, it could be something like a duplex mismatch between the router and the amp.
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post #1361 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 02:00 AM
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I'm getting the AVP for a 7.1 HT setup with the B&W 802Ds, the HTM2D and four DS8s for surrounds. I have a question on the amp. Do you think the POA will be enough for the 802Ds? My dealer is suggesting going with Classé, with a CA2200 for the 802s and a CA5200 for the surrounds and center (200W per channel in all cases). However this will be more than double the cost of the POA. I have not heard the POA yet, thus I don't really know if the 150W per channel would be able to drive the 802s properly. Any views?

thanks!
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post #1362 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 02:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cortega View Post

I'm getting the AVP for a 7.1 HT setup with the B&W 802Ds, the HTM2D and four DS8s for surrounds. I have a question on the amp. Do you think the POA will be enough for the 802Ds? My dealer is suggesting going with Classé, with a CA2200 for the 802s and a CA5200 for the surrounds and center (200W per channel in all cases). However this will be more than double the cost of the POA. I have not heard the POA yet, thus I don't really know if the 150W per channel would be able to drive the 802s properly. Any views?

thanks!

I have the POA running 802D and the results are excellent. For what it is worth, I have heard and liked the Classe amps. I have the POA-A1HD set to bridged balanced mode (300W) for the 802Ds and the sound from the speakers just gets better and better. You could run the front 3 speakers in the balanced bridged mode and the remaining 4 channels with 150W each, or you could bi-amp the front 3 - this is something that i have not tried yet.

For best results you will need to mono-amp the 802Ds but then you are looking at the Classe CA-M400 which are alot more money still.

I would like to eventually go to Accuphase M8000 on the fronts, but since this is a Denon designed mono-amp (POA-S1) I would be keeping the sound 'in the family'. ANother thing I have considered is buying another POA-A1HD and running all channels (4×802D + HTM1D (+ 2×ASW855)) in bridged balanced bi-amp mode - but I would need to test that this gives the desired sound improvement for the money.

Personally I like the POA-A1HD as it gives so many options and it sounds great.

If possible get a demo and then decide.
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post #1363 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 02:55 AM
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[quote=ailean;13357805]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post


Another simple test, try the internet radio on the amp, pick a station the other side of the world and if that works then your little home bit of network should be okay.

Can't remember what type of files you were streaming but even uncompressed WAV files should work fine on a 10Mb network, with 100Mb you could do full DVD quality video streaming (if the Denon supported it ).

As suggested try another DLNA server package like Twonky/Nero/TVersity, remember to switch off sharing in WMP before installing thou. Also try another DLNA client if you have one, even just a laptop with software will do.

Just to test the cable try a laptop and copy some large files off your main PC and see how fast it goes, it could be something like a duplex mismatch between the router and the amp.

Thank you very much for the very helpful info. I will try these things and see what happens.
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post #1364 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 03:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogergraham View Post

Hmm, but that's where it makes no sense. A transport takes the digital signal and sends it unprocessed to the receiver/decoder/etc. In this case, there can be no difference in how noise or other artifacts are treated.

Are you talking about using the Samsung and Pioneer as a pure transport like the BT2500, or are you referring to them as players, in which case they may well have entirely different approaches to, and quality of, video processing?

The problem is that there is no such thing as a pure transport (at least currently as it applies to the HD players). As far as I know there are only a few chipsets that support HD players, and they do NOT just pull bits off the disk and spit them out HDMI. It is apparently an extremely complicated process (think audio for instance, at the very least the chipset has to strip off the bitstream, put it in packets and send it out, at the most, it has to decode it into LPCM - and you better hope they understood the specs). Video is just as complex, but more dependant on the chipsets used. To get the data from the disk to the HDMI, it has to go through at least 3 seperate chips. It has been widely reported than on some (Samsung for instance) the data is converted from 1080p to 1080i at the very least. Depending on how many bits are used and the processing involved, the data WILL be affected. Not to say it can't be done, nor that the 2500 / 3800 don't do it right, just that its a lot more complicated than you think, and it's not just "take the bits off the disk and throw them out the back". Even the much more simple CD transports have to do error correction (and on a bad disk you WILL get errors). Sorry for the long post (and I can't wait til my AVP / DVD pair show up).
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post #1365 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

I have the POA running 802D and the results are excellent. For what it is worth, I have heard and liked the Classe amps. I have the POA-A1HD set to bridged balanced mode (300W) for the 802Ds and the sound from the speakers just gets better and better. You could run the front 3 speakers in the balanced bridged mode and the remaining 4 channels with 150W each, or you could bi-amp the front 3 - this is something that i have not tried yet.

Mark, thank you for the message. That is exactly what I thought would be ideal to do, ie. running the front 3 speakers in the balanced bridged mode and the remaining 4 channels with 150W each. For some reason (a couple of dealers mentioned this to me) I thought you could only run the entire POA-A1HD in bridge balanced mode, ie. 5 channels at 300W, or the 10 channels at 150W, but could not mix part of the POA in bridged balanced mode and part at 150W. If the "mixing" could be done, it would be outstanding and I would definitely go for the POA-A1HD.

Please confirm that it can be done! It would be great!

Thanks!!
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post #1366 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 07:17 AM
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I picked a AVP yesterday, and got it setup (the basics anyway). I will probably be jumping in with some questions, and hopefully answers for others soon.
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post #1367 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cortega View Post

...Please confirm that it can be done! It would be great!

Thanks!!

I confirm that it can be done.

Each paired set of power amps can be either singular (2×150w) with separate inputs, Bi-amped (2×150w) drawing off of a single input (the other becomes redundant) or bridged (1×300w), again drawing off of a single input. Each bank of 2 amps can be configured separately.

So you could bridge front 2, bi-amp the centre and then use the existing 4 amps to run the surround speakers if you wish.

I suggest that you have a look at the manuals:
AVP
POA

Regards,

Mark
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post #1368 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 07:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C5 View Post

The problem is that there is no such thing as a pure transport (at least currently as it applies to the HD players). As far as I know there are only a few chipsets that support HD players, and they do NOT just pull bits off the disk and spit them out HDMI. It is apparently an extremely complicated process (think audio for instance, at the very least the chipset has to strip off the bitstream, put it in packets and send it out, at the most, it has to decode it into LPCM - and you better hope they understood the specs). Video is just as complex, but more dependant on the chipsets used. To get the data from the disk to the HDMI, it has to go through at least 3 seperate chips. It has been widely reported than on some (Samsung for instance) the data is converted from 1080p to 1080i at the very least. Depending on how many bits are used and the processing involved, the data WILL be affected. Not to say it can't be done, nor that the 2500 / 3800 don't do it right, just that its a lot more complicated than you think, and it's not just "take the bits off the disk and throw them out the back". Even the much more simple CD transports have to do error correction (and on a bad disk you WILL get errors). Sorry for the long post (and I can't wait til my AVP / DVD pair show up).

Thanks Joe. I understand that there is some "processing" involved in getting the signal off the disk, and this should be totally standard to any transport; in fact I think it has to be, otherwise you won't get a readable signal.

So when I refer to "processing", I'm ignoring the standard decoding/error-correction/etc that you need just to get the intended data off the disk - instead I'm referring to things like de-interlacing or noise reduction (for video) or upsampling (for audio) etc. If a player or transport's output is set to send a 480i signal off a DVD, for example, the signal should be "straight off the disk", if you know what I mean! :-)

Hence, when OhYeah32 says the video from the BT2500 (for example) is as good as any he has seen, that really is only useful if we know what he has compared it to, using what processing and other equipment, under what comparison scenarios. Otherwise, it seems like he'd be comparing apples to oranges, making his observations difficult to interpret.
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post #1369 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cortega View Post

I'm getting the AVP for a 7.1 HT setup with the B&W 802Ds, the HTM2D and four DS8s for surrounds. I have a question on the amp. Do you think the POA will be enough for the 802Ds? My dealer is suggesting going with Classé, with a CA2200 for the 802s and a CA5200 for the surrounds and center (200W per channel in all cases). However this will be more than double the cost of the POA. I have not heard the POA yet, thus I don't really know if the 150W per channel would be able to drive the 802s properly. Any views?

thanks!

Hi Cortega
I owned 802Ds until recently and ran them biamped off a similarly capable 7 channel x 185watt amp, biamped (so only using 4 channels) and that drove them more than adequately.
I do like MarkBs suggestion with the POA of running bridged however - better voltage capability than just passive biamping.
By the way, the 802Ds are not that hard to drive IMO (unlike some reports of the larger models) . My amp was 2ohm capable, and I'm sure the POA would be grunty enough also. Even single amped with 150watt will likely be adequate unless you really play heavy music well above 90dB.

I think your idea of 802D, htm2d, ds8s will look and sound magnificent in your HT. Also matches well with Denon sound IMO

cheers
Norpus
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post #1370 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by norpus View Post

Hi Cortega
I owned 802Ds until recently and ran them biamped off a similarly capable 7 channel x 185watt amp, biamped (so only using 4 channels) and that drove them more than adequately.
I do like MarkBs suggestion with the POA of running bridged however - better voltage capability than just passive biamping.
By the way, the 802Ds are not that hard to drive IMO (unlike some reports of the larger models) . My amp was 2ohm capable, and I'm sure the POA would be grunty enough also. Even single amped with 150watt will likely be adequate unless you really play heavy music well above 90dB.

I think your idea of 802D, htm2d, ds8s will look and sound magnificent in your HT. Also matches well with Denon sound IMO

Yeah, agreed, and I think I would go further and say that the POA and AVP combination has a closer 'clinical' sound than I was expecting, as I am used to the AVC-A1SR warmer sound. There is a smoothness, clarity and spatial separation on the 802Ds that I am extremely happy with, but there is also power, grip and control.

Just roll on my next two 802D and HTM1D
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post #1371 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogergraham View Post

Thanks Joe. I understand that there is some "processing" involved in getting the signal off the disk, and this should be totally standard to any transport; in fact I think it has to be, otherwise you won't get a readable signal.

So when I refer to "processing", I'm ignoring the standard decoding/error-correction/etc that you need just to get the intended data off the disk - instead I'm referring to things like de-interlacing or noise reduction (for video) or upsampling (for audio) etc. If a player or transport's output is set to send a 480i signal off a DVD, for example, the signal should be "straight off the disk", if you know what I mean! :-)

Hence, when OhYeah32 says the video from the BT2500 (for example) is as good as any he has seen, that really is only useful if we know what he has compared it to, using what processing and other equipment, under what comparison scenarios. Otherwise, it seems like he'd be comparing apples to oranges, making his observations difficult to interpret.

You are correct, there "should" be no processing involved in takng a 480i or 1080p (24 or 60 depending on the disk) to a AVP or TV. I was just pointing out that a lot of units really are modifying the signals in ways you do not expect (for instance, if the disk has 1080p24 on it and your TV will only accept 1080i, something has to be done - and in the case of the first Samsung, badly).
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post #1372 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

I confirm that it can be done.

Each paired set of power amps can be either singular (2×150w) with separate inputs, Bi-amped (2×150w) drawing off of a single input (the other becomes redundant) or bridged (1×300w), again drawing off of a single input. Each bank of 2 amps can be configured separately.

So you could bridge front 2, bi-amp the centre and then use the existing 4 amps to run the surround speakers if you wish.


Mark


Are you planning to do any comparisons between the 2 approaches?

I hope you do as I'm interested in your findings..

I have always looked at this from the perspective that the choice is there based on what speakers you owned - not necessarily that one way is better sonically over the other..

My friend who is buying this amp, has the choice between bi-amping or bridging - I was suggesting he bi-amp the 3 fronts, because both he and I are 75% hires multichannel audio and 25% HT with a 7.1 setup..

As my speakers do not allow bi-amping, I would go bridged if buying this amp..

Ps..think it's time for the Official Owners thread for this pair..

John
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post #1373 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by MC Maniac View Post

Are you planning to do any comparisons between the 2 approaches?

I hope you do as I'm interested in your findings..

I have always looked at this from the perspective that the choice is there based on what speakers you owned - not necessarily that one way is better sonically over the other..

My friend who is buying this amp, has the choice between bi-amping or bridging - I was suggesting he bi-amp the 3 fronts, because both he and I are 75% hires multichannel audio and 25% HT with a 7.1 setup..

As my speakers do not allow bi-amping, I would go bridged if buying this amp..

Ps..think it's time for the Official Owners thread for this pair..

Yes John, I do intend to, and I fully agree that bi-amping the front 3 is probably the best way to go if running 7 speakers in my opinion - at least thats what I would expect. I intend to run 5.1 only, and therefore bridging for me is beneficial, as then I can take advantage of the balanced amp mode all round.

Getting another POA-A1HD would allow me to run bridged~balanced~bi-amp mode in 5.1 but I would want to test that first to see if there was a benefit.

Yes, I agree - it is time for a dedicated owners thread.
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post #1374 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 11:53 AM
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Apparently UPS sometimes delivers early Darn them.

You know, that AVP is heavy stuff, guess I don't have to go to the Gym today (and I hope the glass shelf can take it ). More to come (I hope)...
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post #1375 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:15 PM
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Congrats Joe!

My HT: 60" Pioneer Elite PRO-151FD (calibration soon), Krell electronics, B&W N802s.
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post #1376 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe C5 View Post

Apparently UPS sometimes delivers early Darn them.

You know, that AVP is heavy stuff, guess I don't have to go to the Gym today (and I hope the glass shelf can take it ). More to come (I hope)...

Congrats!!
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post #1377 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkB View Post

Yes John, I do intend to, and I fully agree that bi-amping the front 3 is probably the best way to go if running 7 speakers in my opinion - at least thats what I would expect. I intend to run 5.1 only, and therefore bridging for me is beneficial, as then I can take advantage of the balanced amp mode all round.

Getting another POA-A1HD would allow me to run bridged~balanced~bi-amp mode in 5.1 but I would want to test that first to see if there was a benefit.

Yes, I agree - it is time for a dedicated owners thread.

Yes I agree, it's definitely time to start a dedicated owners thread.
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post #1378 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ohyeah32 View Post

Yes I agree, it's definitely time to start a dedicated owners thread.

Fancy starting it? Or should we leave it to Franin?
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post #1379 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Waboman View Post

Nice picture ohyeah32!! The AVP looks right at home there. Still waiting on mine...

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Originally Posted by Spearmint View Post

WOW...I love the nice clean look of your system. I'm somewhat jealous of your gear as well.

Thanks for sharing!

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Now that is impressive!


Thanks guys.
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post #1380 of 1467 Old 03-12-2008, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by progprog View Post

Hey, everybody, I've been sitting here reading this thread for the past hour or two. Downloaded the AVP manual and been jumping around through that as well.

I'd been shopping for a pre-pro for 3-4 months and was leaning heavily toward the Anthem D2. But finally, frustrated by the unsettled state of affairs in these products and not wanting to commit $7000+ to a component that might be obsoleted in the next few months, I decided to buy an Integra 9.8 to use for a year or so, or until the "ideal" unit appeared.

Long story short: Just got the Integra about a week ago, and I'm pretty disappointed. HT sound is quite good, 2 ch is middling at best, and features are extensive for the price, but the Reon video processing is very rudimentary and inflexible. I was thinking of trying to return it to get the Anthem, then I started reading this thread.

The AVP features and capabilities sound amazing. (I had read about it months ago, but it sounded like vaporware at that time.) I've noticed that much of the recent discussion here has focused in 2 ch performance, while HT is about 80% of my usage. But I'll throw out a few questions, in case anyone has any thoughts.
  1. Has anyone done much HT testing yet? I think the AVP has a more advanced version of Audyssey than the Integra, and I'm curious how you guys like it. (The user set-up, not a Pro intall.)
  2. I use Sonos throughout my house, so I was really excited by the apparent integration. Is there any degree of control over Sonos playback via the AVP, or does it just display the track info on the front display? The manual gives no Sonos-specific info.
  3. Have any of you started delving into the video processing functions yet? The manual seems to indicate that all processing options can be set & saved for each input, and I'm looking to confirm that. Any comments on the PQ of the Realta processing, especially compared to other processors, is welcome.
  4. It also looks like any given source can be associated with any audio source (a nifty feature of the D2). Is that true?
  5. Finally, is this thing hard to get? I got the feeling a bunch of you had been waiting a long time for it.... Is that because it's new or is Denon kind of dribbling them out? And does it really go for the $7000 MSRP on Denon's wesbite?
Sorry for so many questions, but this unit looks really appealing. Thanks much for any comments or feedback.

- prog

I also was in the same position many months ago, trying to decide between the Anthem D2, upcoming Classe' SSP-800, and Denon AVP-A1HDCI.

After carefully looking at what features and options were available on each unit, the only one that did all that I needed and wanted was the Denon AVP. And like you, I also watch more movies than listen to music. But at the same time I wanted a pre/pro that would not only give cutting edge sound for DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray, I also wanted it to offer great sound for 2 channel when I do listen.

I have put the AVP through its paces on many movies, and the results have been nothing short of amazing. DD, DTS, DD+, TrueHD, DTS-HD high res, and DTS-HD MA are the best that I have heard on any system. The sound quality on the lossless soundtracks is expansive, very dynamic, very detailed without being harsh or bright, and is easy on the ears This is what I had been dreaming for, and I'm happy to say that the AVP delivers in spades.

I have not yet tried out the Audyssey feature, but will definitely give my impressions when I do.

I do not use Sonos, and will be straming music from my PC or possibly a NAS. But I'm sure that there might be other AVP owners that do use Sonos that could chime in.

Haven't fiddled around too much with Realta yet, but from the few adjustments I did make I noticed an even richer picture. I plan to delve into the setting a bit more this week.

Yes, any given source can be associated with any audio source. I saw this in the on screen menu options, I didn't try this feature but it is indeed there.

Right now It may be a bit difficult to get (as only so many were shipped to dealers). But if your dealer didn't have any pre-orders to fill, you may stand a good change at having him get one for you. But even if not, the second shipment of these pre/pro's will be around the middle of April. And there are quite a few dealers that are only selling these at full MSRP ($7,000), but some are discounting at least 10%. Expect a bit more of a savings once these units become more readily available.

Sorry that I wasn't able to answer all of your questions, but I hope that I have helped a little.



Seth
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