Official Onkyo 605 Owners Thread - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 10:51 AM
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I'm scheduled to pick up this receiver tomorrow night - but due to the workaround needed to enjoy both upscaling of SD and enjoying 1080i HD I'm having some second thoughts.

My question is, if I do the workaround of connecting an HDMI and component from my STB to 605, would I be able to use the audio from the HDMI feed when I'm using the video from component (to enjoy 1080i)? or will it require that I also run an optical cable from STB to the 605.

The other receiver I'm looking at is the Yamaha 661, which I think might be better from an audio standpoint (Burr-Brown DACs i think, pre-outs which i would still have to convince the girlfriend why i needed an amp and can take 5.1 to 7.1 which doesn't really matter to me since I currently only have 3.1 but will upgrade to 5.1 soon and perhaps 7.1 later) but it can't upscale SD TV at all. I don't think the HDMI 1.3 is really that big of a deal, although I believe my TV (65hm167) can take advantage of the lip syncing capibilities, but I don't even know if that's necessary.

decisions decisions....maybe when I go to my retailer tomorrow night I'll send the girlfriend in and tell her to come out with either the 661 or the 605 cause at this point I can't decide...
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post #632 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 11:02 AM
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Yes mrphilby, you would need to run a digital connection from the STB. Since the best a STB can do is 5.1 DD, nothing lost. If your eventual work around does include an HDMI for the STB then you can use the audio off of that independent of your HDMI video ON/OFF.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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post #633 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 11:38 AM
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I was just looking at the Future Proof Receiver sticky thread and it listed only Onkyo 805 and up as Level 6. Just to clarify. Is this in reference to the 605's inability to do 7.1 on a 5.1 PCM track? Or can it not even do 7.1 on a legit 7.1 PCM track(such as Crank or The Descent on Blu-ray)?
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post #634 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 11:39 AM
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Just some thoughts I had regarding the 605 and this thread...

Regarding the decoding in the receiver vs decoding in the player debate: In the case of the 605, it would definitely be better to have the player to do the decoding on True HD and DTS-MA formats for 7.1 systems... because I believe that PLIIx can be applied to matrix 5.1 into 7.1 is the decoding is done in the 605 for those formats... is that correct? I am hoping that the PS3 will someday allow the raw bitstream to pass so I can do that (and get DTS-MA at all of course). I really was interested in DTS-MA, but when I looked at the titles that had it... I realized that it isn't even an issue for me at this point in time (XMen 3 maybe, but I can live without it). Of course i say that now that I can't get it. Hopefully, by the time there are some movies that I really like that use DTS-MA, a reasonably priced player or my PS3 will be able to send it via bitstream.

To Xbox 360 users complaining that the receiver can't convert 1080p component to HDMI... Why does that matter? Is it because your TV doesn't accept component 1080p? While I do feel for you, in the end you need to spend more $$$ somewhere. Either get a higher end receiver, or an XBox 360 Elite or PS3. You can't have everything on a budget nor fault a budget receiver. None of this was a surprise.

From what I know of it... I think that already the 605 is well worth the price tag. And it has a chance to be worth even more if the audio processing capabilities are utilized in the future. Is it perfect, no. But in the end to upscale SD programming was the deal breaker for me... evn though it is a little bit of a hassle.

Of course, I say this all without even listening to one yet, so what do I know
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post #635 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshigashi View Post

Regarding the decoding in the receiver vs decoding in the player debate: In the case of the 605, it would definitely be better to have the player to do the decoding on True HD and DTS-MA formats for 7.1 systems... because I believe that PLIIx can be applied to matrix 5.1 into 7.1 is the decoding is done in the 605 for those formats... is that correct?

No, that is not correct. The decoded True HD or DTS MA would hit the receiver as PCM, and it can't apply any post processing to PCM to get you 7.1. The 805 can though.
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post #636 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

No, that is not correct. The decoded True HD or DTS MA would hit the receiver as PCM, and it can't apply any post processing to PCM to get you 7.1. The 805 can though.


This I know, what I am saying is a bit different that I am talking about if a player sends the raw encoded bitstream for DTS-MA or True HD, then I believe the 605 can apply PLIIX to that? (The audio wouldn't hit the receiver as PCM).
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post #637 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

No, that is not correct. The decoded True HD or DTS MA would hit the receiver as PCM, and it can't apply any post processing to PCM to get you 7.1. The 805 can though.

I don't see myself ever really using a 7.1 setup though. So minus the 1080p scaling, the 605 seems pretty competent.

"Guns? Guns are easy."
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post #638 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by jayrader View Post

No, that is not correct. The decoded True HD or DTS MA would hit the receiver as PCM, and it can't apply any post processing to PCM to get you 7.1. The 805 can though.

So can the 705 if you're in no rush.

Making the most out of what I got.
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post #639 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jshigashi View Post

To Xbox 360 users complaining that the receiver can't convert 1080p component to HDMI... Why does that matter? Is it because your TV doesn't accept component 1080p? While I do feel for you, in the end you need to spend more $$$ somewhere. Either get a higher end receiver, or an XBox 360 Elite or PS3. You can't have everything on a budget nor fault a budget receiver. None of this was a surprise.

LOL!!! You just made my day... I need to spend more money on my home entertainment system!!! I've got to show this to my wife!!! I don't think she'll agree with you!

For the record, my TV does accept 1080P via component. Also, I think most people would disagree with you. An HDMI upconverting receiver that can pass a 1080P signal through component or HDMI IS a surprise when in won't pass a 1080P from componant through HDMI in any definition. You are a funny funny man.
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post #640 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by d--keller View Post

LOL!!! You just made my day... I need to spend more money on my home entertainment system!!! I've got to show this to my wife!!! I don't think she'll agree with you!

For the record, my TV does accept 1080P via component. Also, I think most people would disagree with you. An HDMI upconverting receiver that can pass a 1080P signal through component or HDMI IS a surprise when in won't pass a 1080P from componant through HDMI in any definition. You are a funny funny man.

Glad I made you laugh... I guess I can say that I'll agree to disagree. I personally don't think it is a surprise that a $400-$500 receiver is limited, but that's my opinion. I am not saying it doesn't have design flaws, I am saying that one should expect them.

If anything, I think the Xbox 360 is the problem. In all honesty though, why do you have a problem with this? Either run the component cables as a pass through your tv, or buy and Elite/PS3/more expensive receiver.... or wait for a similarly priced one that can do what you are wanting. Whining about the limitations won't change anything.
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post #641 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshigashi View Post

This I know, what I am saying is a bit different that I am talking about if a player sends the raw encoded bitstream for DTS-MA or True HD, then I believe the 605 can apply PLIIX to that? (The audio wouldn't hit the receiver as PCM).

Hmmm... this I don't really know. I was under the assumption that if the signal coming in was only 5.1, you were only going to get 5.1, regardless of PCM or bitstream. Unfortunately since nothing can bitstream DTS MA we can't even test it.
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post #642 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 01:02 PM
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Not surprised that it has limitations capn'. Just surprised at that limitation specifically because it is counter intuitive. Not whining either. Just stating facts. There are bound to be others out there having the same issue. This thread has been helpful to myself and others finding out what this receiver can and can not do... no reason to call people whiners etc.

Already have a PS3 by the way...
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post #643 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

So can the 705 if you're in no rush.

Are we sure the 705 can martix 5.1 to 7.1 PCM? Without the manual this is unknown (just like the 605 was before it was released).
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post #644 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 01:25 PM
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I'ts amazing all of the video angst involved... w/ a receiver! Technology is great Yes, I think this receiver Sounds great. I've had mine for a week now. The problem is the combination of video and audio technologies and the expectations that go with it. Go to the Video section of this forum and everybody will state that the only way to upscale video properly is w/ a dedicated multi thousand $$ box. There are still $2k receivers out there that are having problems w/ video.

The 5.1 to 7.1 conversion is another matter for an audio device. I have a 5.1 setup and don't need it. Thanks to this forum, I knew about it before I bought.

The fact that I spent very little money for an awesome sounding receiver that also upconverts my composite and S-video feeds is a bargain indeed. My wife is a little angry at how LOUD my tv viewing and gaming have suddenly become
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post #645 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d--keller View Post

Not surprised that it has limitations capn'. Just surprised at that limitation specifically because it is counter intuitive. Not whining either. Just stating facts. There are bound to be others out there having the same issue. This thread has been helpful to myself and others finding out what this receiver can and can not do... no reason to call people whiners etc.

Already have a PS3 by the way...

My bad on the name calling and understand your point; there definitely are others that are having the issue. In fact I am sure there are those worse off that have TV's that can't accept 1080p via component

I guess I'll cop out and say it is what it is.


Does anyone know if the 605 is supposed to be able to apply IIx processing to the raw bistreams for DTS-MA and True HD as I was saying? I thought I had read that somewhere. I guess that will be impossible to test right now, so it's really not important right now?

Also, has there been any professional reviews on the 605 yet?
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post #646 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrgribbles View Post

Yes mrphilby, you would need to run a digital connection from the STB. Since the best a STB can do is 5.1 DD, nothing lost. If your eventual work around does include an HDMI for the STB then you can use the audio off of that independent of your HDMI video ON/OFF.


Didn't he say that he does plan to run both HDMI and component to the 605 from his STB? I am planning on doing the same workaround to get upscaling... but if I am watching SD prgramming via component that has DD 5.1 available... I can use the HDMI for the audio only and component for the video? I was planning on having to have to run an optical along with the component.
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post #647 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 02:53 PM
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Very informative thread!!!

I got the low-down on HDMI video out. Here's one more regarding component out. Will it upconvert/upscale SD signal like S-video to 480i or 480p?

"I'll make him an offer he can't refuse."
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post #648 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by gmitran View Post

Very informative thread!!!

I got the low-down on HDMI video out. Here's one more regarding component out. Will it upconvert/upscale SD signal like S-video to 480i or 480p?

Negative... Only way to upscale is via HDMI out.
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post #649 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by gmitran View Post

Very informative thread!!!

I got the low-down on HDMI video out. Here's one more regarding component out. Will it upconvert/upscale SD signal like S-video to 480i or 480p?

I didn't test it but I think it does. Maybe someone can plug it in & try it.

Per thr manual:

"With the HDMI Monitor setting set to No (see
page 47), video input signals flow through the
AV receiver/AV amplifier as shown, with composite
video and S-Video sources being upconverted
for the component video output."

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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post #650 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jshigashi View Post


Does anyone know if the 605 is supposed to be able to apply IIx processing to the raw bistreams for DTS-MA and True HD as I was saying? I thought I had read that somewhere. I guess that will be impossible to test right now, so it's really not important right now?

Per the manual, no it can't post process THD or MA.

Some days it's hardly worth chewing through the restraints.
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post #651 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 03:28 PM
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Ok,just got my 605. Just want to make sure I am going to hook this up correctly. HD Direct Tv receiver and PS3 are going to be hooked up via hdmi,then the output is getting hooked to my Sony 60" XBR1. Is there anything else I need to know about setting this up? 1st time doing all of this? Setting up my Paradigm monitors,is there anything I need to know? No sub yet,I'll pick that up later. I just have a pair of titans,cc-290 for the fronts and a pair of mini monitors that I am using for my surrounds. Once I get everything up and running,I'll post pics
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post #652 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by rajdawar View Post

So, if you treat the scaling for SD sources as a free bonus, you'll find it easier to live with.

Raj,

I could not agree more with that statement. Sorry all, I've been out of the loop for three days and it looks like I missed a lot. Am I still the only one that totally loves the 605? My SD PQ is soooo good now, I haven't been able to say that for quite some time. Not having the Dolby TrueHD LCD light up and not being able to implement DTS MA kind of sucks, but we kind of thought that would be the case going in, right? Let's just give Toshiba and any other DVD player manufacturer some time. Tosh is sending out updates quite frequently. They'll get to it eventually. But we will still have to deal with advanced authoring. Who knows how long that will be a requirement.

What can I say, I love the PQ, the downscaling of 1080i component to HDMI has been solved to my liking. I just have a few more cables than I thought I would have. And to switch from SD converted to 720p and back to 1080i/p just takes one button push. I am going to play with the sound processing this weekend. The SQ, in my opinion, can't be beat in this price range.

Am I the only one?

Regards...Will

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post #653 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:01 PM
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Quote:


Not having the Dolby TrueHD LCD light up and not being able to implement DTS MA kind of sucks,

Ahh, those lights. You'll still hear TrueHD the same, though, even if only the HDMI light is on.

Jack Gilvey
SVS Customer Service

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post #654 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Jack Gilvey View Post

Ahh, those lights. You'll still hear TrueHD the same, though, even if only the HDMI light is on.

Exactly my point!

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post #655 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:08 PM
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Wow...I am reading through all of the posts I missed in three days. I can't believe how many people are bashing this unit. What gives?

Red was my first love. Blu is my new wife!
HD DVD-117
Blu-Ray-287
SD DVD-544

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post #656 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmitran View Post

Very informative thread!!!

I got the low-down on HDMI video out. Here's one more regarding component out. Will it upconvert/upscale SD signal like S-video to 480i or 480p?

Never mind. I misread your question.

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post #657 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Will Munshower View Post

Raj,

I could not agree more with that statement. Sorry all, I've been out of the loop for three days and it looks like I missed a lot. Am I still the only one that totally loves the 605? My SD PQ is soooo good now, I haven't been able to say that for quite some time. Not having the Dolby TrueHD LCD light up and not being able to implement DTS MA kind of sucks, but we kind of thought that would be the case going in, right? Let's just give Toshiba and any other DVD player manufacturer some time. Tosh is sending out updates quite frequently. They'll get to it eventually. But we will still have to deal with advanced authoring. Who knows how long that will be a requirement.

What can I say, I love the PQ, the downscaling of 1080i component to HDMI has been solved to my liking. I just have a few more cables than I thought I would have. And to switch from SD converted to 720p and back to 1080i/p just takes one button push. I am going to play with the sound processing this weekend. The SQ, in my opinion, can't be beat in this price range.

Am I the only one?

Regards...Will

No, I love mine. Having only 720p and 5.1 setup, it suits me perfectly. The upconversion works nicely for me...my DVD/Hard Disk recorder with Component out at 480p is being upconverted by my 605 just fine. Fewer cables, to be sure. Same fine sound I have come to expect from Onkyo...this is my 3rd, last one an Integra 7.1 hit by lightning.

So, no you are not alone. (It's a lot more fun to be pleased than finding a reason to be disappointed, by the way.)

...hasan, N0AN
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post #658 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:23 PM
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My perfect HT Storm will be happening within two weeks finally...my A2 & 605 have been shipped and next weeks paycheck will buy my SVS 5.1 sound system...this is my first HT and I am very excited. I will post a report on how everything works out.

Later,
-Gman
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post #659 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:27 PM
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Here's the manual for people who would like to check it out..
605 Manual in PDF Format
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post #660 of 10258 Old 06-07-2007, 04:31 PM
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I ordered my 605 on April 26 from J&R. I guess I am one of the many still waiting. Has any one else received their order placed around the same time?
Thanks.
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