"The" Onkyo TX-SR805 Thread - Page 761 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 27Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #22801 of 23136 Old 02-03-2014, 11:08 PM
Member
 
tmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuller View Post

Got this from Onkyo and my response.
Hi,

I've been thinking about how to best phrase this and I still think it may come off different than my intention.

When I started playing Monsters University on my BR player (circa 2007), I assumed that there was an issue with the player, which was relatively old compared to what is out there today. We had purchased a Sony S5100 BR player and I thought that maybe that would solve the issue. It didn't. Then I engaged Onkyo about the issue and I assumed that they would have a fix for this. They didn't.

I then took it upon myself to try and figure out a way to enjoy the discs I purchased, without the audio drop outs. I did research, I hunted high and low for data. The players I had would work JUST fine if I enable PCM output instead of bit streaming the trueHD signal. No audio drop outs from the Onkyo. The problem is that everyone of the players I had would only output PCM 2.0, nothing more than that (in other words, no 7.1 sound). That truly sucks to have a wonderful receiver sit there and output 2 channels from a 7.1 channel source because the player decodes it in that form.

Eventually, I couldn't stand that, so I did some research to find a player that would output MPCM (7.1) from either TrueHD or DTS-MA. I found several, but they were expensive (Oppo and Cambridge to name a few). I then stumbled upon a article about a panasonic BR player that would do what the Oppo or Cambridge would do but at a discounted price (it was a 2012 player, still available). I settled on the BMP-BDT500 from panasonic, hoping it would at least output the sound in a MPCM format that the Onkyo would be able to handle without issue.

Interesting enough, it did. But not only via MPCM 7.1 audio, the player also bit streamed the trueHD audio to the 805 I have WITHOUT ISSUE. I have tested several disney discs that are known to be an issue in other player / AVR combos and they didn't have the issue I was seeing.

I guess my question is, Why does the Panasonic work bit streaming the data to my Onkyo 805, but my two other BR players doing the exact same thing would not? This is the question I am still trying to find an answer too, but probably never will.

Thanks for the offer, I'd love to see what the discounted price is, but I doubt it will match the 159 bucks I spent on the Panasonic player to fix this issue with my existing 805.

-troy

And a follow up:
Quote:
Good Afternoon,

I'm glad that you were able to come to some sort of conclusion with the issue, unfortunately I don't have the answer as to why the drop with the 2 other players as opposed to the Panasonic one, but this will be forwarded to our main engineer to see what he says. Also you are right about replacing the Blu- Ray as a cheaper alternative than the trade in, because a unit similar to what you have in 2012 or 2013 model would cost between $300 or $400

I'm sure that this means a fix is in the works....NOT!

-troy
tmuller is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22802 of 23136 Old 02-05-2014, 12:55 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Oh gawd, the update bug has bitten. There's a Pioneer unit that's up on Amazon for not bad money and I am tempted.

So does anyone have an idea what an originally Refurbed 805, with DSP and FW updated, could be worth, on here or elsewhere? I am watching a couple on ebay.

Maybe I'm looking to be talked out of it...

Seggers

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22803 of 23136 Old 02-05-2014, 03:51 PM
AVS Special Member
 
riverwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

Oh gawd, the update bug has bitten. There's a Pioneer unit that's up on Amazon for not bad money and I am tempted.

So does anyone have an idea what an originally Refurbed 805, with DSP and FW updated, could be worth, on here or elsewhere? I am watching a couple on ebay.

Maybe I'm looking to be talked out of it...

Seggers

It's hard to say too much without knowing which Pioneer you're comparing. First, ask yourself what can the Pioneer do better than the 805? The first thing that comes to mind for me is I don't think MCACC capability has caught up with the Audyssey MultEQ XT in the 805, let alone the XT32/SubEQ/DynamicEQ suite that you would get in a new Audyssey licensed product that's comparable to the 805.

-Brent
riverwolf is offline  
post #22804 of 23136 Old 02-05-2014, 05:46 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post

It's hard to say too much without knowing which Pioneer you're comparing. First, ask yourself what can the Pioneer do better than the 805? The first thing that comes to mind for me is I don't think MCACC capability has caught up with the Audyssey MultEQ XT in the 805, let alone the XT32/SubEQ/DynamicEQ suite that you would get in a new Audyssey licensed product that's comparable to the 805.

-Brent

Brent,

So here's the Pioneer unit, the SC-1523:

http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-1523-K-9-2-Channel-Network-Receiver/dp/B00DQHZYRI/ref=cm_cd_ql_qh_dp_t

Nice price, 3D (not a must have, but could be good down the road), 4K pass thru and up scaling, network capable, a whole bunch of stuff that the 805 just doesn't do.

I'm not sure if the E2PROM is on it's way out (settings don't survive power outages). I haven't tried a hard reset on the thing. Dunno, maybe it's just time for newness...

Seggers

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22805 of 23136 Old 02-05-2014, 07:02 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Smarty-pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 189
^Seggers, not trying to talk you out of upgrading, but the features you mention may sometimes not even be necessary.
If you were to get one of the newer Oppo model BD players, they have dual HDMI outputs so you can send the audio through your avr and the video direct to the display at the same time. (so you don't have to worry about what will or won't pass through the avr.)
It has 3D capability, excellent upconversion (even up to 4k), and a ton more... you can even run other sources through the player to take advantage of the player's processing.
Something like that could be a better answer than getting a new avr. I use an Oppo player combined with the -805 and am left with no desire for a new avr.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
Smarty-pants is offline  
post #22806 of 23136 Old 02-05-2014, 09:17 PM
Member
 
Mean Gene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 185
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Smarty-pants View Post

^Seggers, not trying to talk you out of upgrading, but the features you mention may sometimes not even be necessary.
If you were to get one of the newer Oppo model BD players, they have dual HDMI outputs so you can send the audio through your avr and the video direct to the display at the same time. (so you don't have to worry about what will or won't pass through the avr.)
It has 3D capability, excellent upconversion (even up to 4k), and a ton more... you can even run other sources through the player to take advantage of the player's processing.
Something like that could be a better answer than getting a new avr. I use an Oppo player combined with the -805 and am left with no desire for a new avr.

I have the same setup except a Panasonic 500 instead of the oppo. I will not upgrade my 805 until it finally dies because there is no need. The only downside of continuing the use of my 805 with 3d components is the extra cabling involved.
Mean Gene is offline  
post #22807 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 09:48 AM
Advanced Member
 
asere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post

It's hard to say too much without knowing which Pioneer you're comparing. First, ask yourself what can the Pioneer do better than the 805? The first thing that comes to mind for me is I don't think MCACC capability has caught up with the Audyssey MultEQ XT in the 805, let alone the XT32/SubEQ/DynamicEQ suite that you would get in a new Audyssey licensed product that's comparable to the 805.

-Brent

Brent is right ask yourself what can the Pioneer do that the 805 cannot. Also like Brent mentioned the XT is more capable than the MCACC.

I don't think any Pioneer out there will come close to the 805's massive amp and Japan build. Even the Onkyo 818 does not have the sample amplification as the 805.
asere is offline  
post #22808 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 12:26 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
So folks, many thanks for all the input and suggestions. I suppose, at the end of the day, the shiny new tech thingy was what was going to do it for me. It's not now as the price has gone up and the luster has worn off.

The BD player change was an interesting idea but for 2 points (neither of which any of you knew):
1. I run a PS3 as my BD player, which I use PS3MS to stream stuff too. The wife would kill me if she couldn't watch her 50's shows on my 73 screen....
2. The idea of stuff plugging into a BD player and then plugging into the AVR doesn't really sit that well with me. The AVR should be at the centre of the web...

So I am going to stop here and maybe look at a UPC for the TV, or even just mentally add the pennies saved towards that Sharp 90 monster I have been looking at....

However, anyone got any ideas on that E2PROM issue? Should I just bite the bullet, reset the thing (as in pull the power for 30 mins etc) and hit the save method as I've seen elsewhere? I wasn't able to find my concrete on here or googling.

Seggers

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22809 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 12:47 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Smarty-pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

So folks, many thanks for all the input and suggestions. I suppose, at the end of the day, the shiny new tech thingy was what was going to do it for me. It's not now as the price has gone up and the luster has worn off.

The BD player change was an interesting idea but for 2 points (neither of which any of you knew):
1. I run a PS3 as my BD player, which I use PS3MS to stream stuff too. The wife would kill me if she couldn't watch her 50's shows on my 73 screen....
2. The idea of stuff plugging into a BD player and then plugging into the AVR doesn't really sit that well with me. The AVR should be at the centre of the web...

So I am going to stop here and maybe look at a UPC for the TV, or even just mentally add the pennies saved towards that Sharp 90 monster I have been looking at....

However, anyone got any ideas on that E2PROM issue? Should I just bite the bullet, reset the thing (as in pull the power for 30 mins etc) and hit the save method as I've seen elsewhere? I wasn't able to find my concrete on here or googling.

Seggers

If you were to upgrade the PS3 to something like an Oppo, I seriously doubt you would regret it.
Remember that the 805 basically only offers video switching, and no processing... it's mostly an audio oriented component, and as such that is they way I have come to use it.
I'm not sure what PS3MS even is, but you can also use a Roku to get streaming stuff too. The Oppo BDP-103D will also have the option of Darbee processing too.
It may not sound tempting without knowing how it all works together, but to satisfy an upgrade itch, I think it's something you would get much more out of over upgrading the AVR.
I will shut up now though, since I'm starting to sound like an Oppo commercial. tongue.gif

As for the E2PROM...
I recall possibly some others having similar issues in the past, and possibly trying to RE-flash the latest firmware and that may have fixed some issue.
I'm not sure though if it is the same issue you are having.
Personally, I would definitely try the reset to default and leave it unplugged for like a day and see what happens.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
Smarty-pants is offline  
post #22810 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 02:23 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Smarty,

My bad. PS3MS = PS3 Media Server.

It's a program that can transpose a bunch of formats into one the PS3 can cope with.

But you have given me ideas though.

Seggers.

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22811 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 04:12 PM
AVS Special Member
 
riverwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

So folks, many thanks for all the input and suggestions. I suppose, at the end of the day, the shiny new tech thingy was what was going to do it for me. It's not now as the price has gone up and the luster has worn off.

The BD player change was an interesting idea but for 2 points (neither of which any of you knew):
1. I run a PS3 as my BD player, which I use PS3MS to stream stuff too. The wife would kill me if she couldn't watch her 50's shows on my 73 screen....
2. The idea of stuff plugging into a BD player and then plugging into the AVR doesn't really sit that well with me. The AVR should be at the centre of the web...

So I am going to stop here and maybe look at a UPC for the TV, or even just mentally add the pennies saved towards that Sharp 90 monster I have been looking at....

However, anyone got any ideas on that E2PROM issue? Should I just bite the bullet, reset the thing (as in pull the power for 30 mins etc) and hit the save method as I've seen elsewhere? I wasn't able to find my concrete on here or googling.

Seggers

Another thought for solving the 3D/4K issue. Pick up the appropriate matrix switch and/or splitter from somewhere like Monoprice. A quick glance at Monoprice doesn't show a 4K certified switch, but one has to figure it's only a matter of time. For a one cable to the TV solution, put a splitter on the PS3's output and feed one leg to the switch and the other to the 805 for audio. Connect the 805's output to the switch for routing video to the display. May require a little remote programming to get the external switch to dance properly with the 805 when changing from source to source. If you only have one 3D source and don't mind two HDMI cables to the display, leave out the switch, route one leg of the splitter directly to the display and program your remote accordingly.

What exact error are you having? As Smarty mentions, the E2PROM error I'm familiar with was an explicit message that some would see immediately after a firmware update. Most of the time it would clear up, but there were a few reports that seemed to indicate it was a permanent condition. However, you also mention losing settings after power loss. That's doesn't sound like the same E2PROM error and likely won't be fixed with a hard reset. Given the age of most 805s, it's more likely your battery backup for the memory settings is gone. Unfortunately, I don't think receivers/processors use coin cells like PC mobo's do. From what I learned when my last pre-pro started forgetting stuff, these type of devices use a slow discharge capacitor (Sherwood support called it a condenser) to maintain memory during a power loss event. If you're so inclined, you can probably find the 805's service manual online and track down the memory backup circuit and replace the cap...the part for my S-N was ~$15. For <$50, you could also pick up a small UPS and run the 805 through that. It won't run the 805 for very long during a power outage, but should keep the 805's memory protected for weeks in stand-by. Just depends on how often you get a power loss event.

-Brent
riverwolf is offline  
post #22812 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 05:11 PM
AVS Special Member
 
riverwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post

Brent is right ask yourself what can the Pioneer do that the 805 cannot. Also like Brent mentioned the XT is more capable than the MCACC.

I don't think any Pioneer out there will come close to the 805's massive amp and Japan build. Even the Onkyo 818 does not have the sample amplification as the 805.

Not all 805's were made in Japan. Mine was a Malaysian build. A good/bad product can be built anywhere...just comes down to enforcement of QC standards.

I doubt the particular Pioneer that Seggers linked will match the 805 on the bench, but there have been models that did...not sure if their current lineup has any. Pioneer's models using the B&O ICEPower modules come to mind. While the 805's amplifiers are stout for a receiver, especially at the price point the 805 originally sold for, they're not magic. I would imagine 99% of us would never notice a difference in blind testing between an 805 and an 818, any other 600/700 series Onkyo, or the Pioneer that Segger's was considering. For that matter, that comparison can probably extend to any 100 wpc rated receiver. Remember, doubling power only gets you a 3dB increase in output. 3dB also happens to be the smallest difference the average human can differentiate in complex audio (1dB accuracy on sine waves) under lab conditions. The all channels driven tests that made the 805 look so beastly doesn't happen with real world content...at least, not yet.

Comparing the 805 to any other Onkyo 800 series really isn't apples to apples. The 805 is THX Ultra2 certified while the 807/808/818/828 are THX Select2. Technically, the 806 was U2, but that appears to have been a mistake on THX's part (seems like they even commented about the 806 after bench tests were published) since the 806's weight is comparable to the subsequent 8xx models and it bench tested closer to a 605 than 805. I have no doubt the current Onkyo U2 models are just as stout as the 805. My personal theory is the 805 was actually a "mistake". I think it was supposed to be an upgraded 705 (better DACs, extra zone output), just like the subsequent 7xx/8xx models. However, in my theory, there was some problem with the 705 platform causing it to not street until 3-4 months after the rest of the x05 lineup. I think Onkyo made an 11th hour decision to strip a couple of features from the 875 (bridging, Reon) to get a $999 MSRP THX receiver out the door on time. Some of the early photo mules of the 805 actually had the bridging graphics printed on their rear panel just like the 875.

-Brent
riverwolf is offline  
post #22813 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 07:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Acousticality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
I have the Onkyo 805 and purchased the Pioneer SC-1323-K from Amazon and am currently hooking it up. To answer your question, I will say this, the Pioneer does have significantly more from an audio stand point on paper. For starters the major fact that it has True HD and DTS Master Audio HD is a huge difference from the 805 which only features Dolby Digital and DTS. The Pioneer has 3D and 4K pass through/upscaling (the Onkyo does not), significantly more HDMI inputs(8 vs. 3), and 2 HDMI outputs (vs. 1 on the Onkyo). Two subwoofer Outputs (1 on the Onkyo). Comparable Wattages 125W/channel at 8 Ohms for the Pioneer vs. 130 W/channel at 8 Ohms on the Onkyo.

Now a big difference in build quality is the change from Class A Amps in the Onkyo to Class D (D^3) in the Pioneer. From what I have read Pioneer has done a very strong job developing their class D^3 amplifiers, however as anyone can readily find out it is "thought" that Class D amplifiers lead to a loss in fidelity/clarity due to the fact that the amps are shutting off and on many times a second in the Class D whereas in the Class A they are continuously running at full power. This inherently leads to the enormous waste of energy associated with Class A amps as for every Watt of power put through to your speakers you lose approximately 4-5 Watts of heat from the system. And being an owner of the Onkyo 805 for many years, I would definitely say the 805 is towards the TOP end of that heat output range.

That being said, I have never had any problems with my Onkyo, and am doing a side by side testing to determine if I can tell a difference between the two. I will post an update with the next few days with some comparisons/contrasts. My guess is that the Pioneer will still be a solid performer, especially at the price point that Amazon was selling it for. To be fair, comparables at this Price range would be the Sony DNR1040, and we all know the MANY problems surrounding that design, and the Onkyo 626 which I would argue is nowhere near the level of the Pioneer as can be seen from its much weaker output.

I figure, I can always return the Pioneer if it is not to my liking.
Acousticality is offline  
post #22814 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 07:32 PM
Newbie
 
yesavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Orange County, Ca
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
DVDO Quick6 is what I intend on upgrading with for current switching capability. Check it out! http://www.dvdo.com/quick6/
yesavs is offline  
post #22815 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 08:30 PM
Advanced Member
 
asere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

I have the Onkyo 805 and purchased the Pioneer SC-1323-K from Amazon and am currently hooking it up. To answer your question, I will say this, the Pioneer does have significantly more from an audio stand point on paper. For starters the major fact that it has True HD and DTS Master Audio HD is a huge difference from the 805 which only features Dolby Digital and DTS. The Pioneer has 3D and 4K pass through/upscaling (the Onkyo does not), significantly more HDMI inputs(8 vs. 3), and 2 HDMI outputs (vs. 1 on the Onkyo). Two subwoofer Outputs (1 on the Onkyo). Comparable Wattages 125W/channel at 8 Ohms for the Pioneer vs. 130 W/channel at 8 Ohms on the Onkyo.

Now a big difference in build quality is the change from Class A Amps in the Onkyo to Class D (D^3) in the Pioneer. From what I have read Pioneer has done a very strong job developing their class D^3 amplifiers, however as anyone can readily find out it is "thought" that Class D amplifiers lead to a loss in fidelity/clarity due to the fact that the amps are shutting off and on many times a second in the Class D whereas in the Class A they are continuously running at full power. This inherently leads to the enormous waste of energy associated with Class A amps as for every Watt of power put through to your speakers you lose approximately 4-5 Watts of heat from the system. And being an owner of the Onkyo 805 for many years, I would definitely say the 805 is towards the TOP end of that heat output range.

That being said, I have never had any problems with my Onkyo, and am doing a side by side testing to determine if I can tell a difference between the two. I will post an update with the next few days with some comparisons/contrasts. My guess is that the Pioneer will still be a solid performer, especially at the price point that Amazon was selling it for. To be fair, comparables at this Price range would be the Sony DNR1040, and we all know the MANY problems surrounding that design, and the Onkyo 626 which I would argue is nowhere near the level of the Pioneer as can be seen from its much weaker output.

I figure, I can always return the Pioneer if it is not to my liking.
[quote name="Acousticality" url="/t/857502/the-onkyo-tx-sr805-thread/
22800#post_24322731"]I have the Onkyo 805 and purchased the Pioneer SC-1323-K from Amazon and am currently hooking it up. To answer your question, I will say this, the Pioneer does have significantly more from an audio stand point on paper. For starters the major fact that it has True HD and DTS Master Audio HD is a huge difference from the 805 which only features Dolby Digital and DTS. The Pioneer has 3D and 4K pass through/upscaling (the Onkyo does not), significantly more HDMI inputs(8 vs. 3), and 2 HDMI outputs (vs. 1 on the Onkyo). Two subwoofer Outputs (1 on the Onkyo). Comparable Wattages 125W/channel at 8 Ohms for the Pioneer vs. 130 W/channel at 8 Ohms on the Onkyo.

Now a big difference in build quality is the change from Class A Amps in the Onkyo to Class D (D^3) in the Pioneer. From what I have read Pioneer has done a very strong job developing their class D^3 amplifiers, however as anyone can readily find out it is "thought" that Class D amplifiers lead to a loss in fidelity/clarity due to the fact that the amps are shutting off and on many times a second in the Class D whereas in the Class A they are continuously running at full power. This inherently leads to the enormous waste of energy associated with Class A amps as for every Watt of power put through to your speakers you lose approximately 4-5 Watts of heat from the system. And being an owner of the Onkyo 805 for many years, I would definitely say the 805 is towards the TOP end of that heat output range.

That being said, I have never had any problems with my Onkyo, and am doing a side by side testing to determine if I can tell a difference between the two. I will post an update with the next few days with some comparisons/contrasts. My guess is that the Pioneer will still be a solid performer, especially at the price point that Amazon was selling it for. To be fair, comparables at this Price range would be the Sony DNR1040, and we all know the MANY problems surrounding that design, and the Onkyo 626 which I would argue is nowhere near the level of the Pioneer as can be seen from its much weaker output.

I figure, I can always return the Pioneer if it is not to my liking.[/quote]

You mentioned the 805 has no TrueHd nor DTS Master and that is incorrect. In fact if I'm not mistaken Onkyo or certain Onkyo receivers where the first to have them onboard.
xact likes this.
asere is offline  
post #22816 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 09:21 PM
Senior Member
 
Acousticality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
It shows on their website that it does, which is weird. But i can tell you I am looking at it in my living room right now and it does not list it as a feature. Just Dolby Digital.
Acousticality is offline  
post #22817 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 09:35 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Smarty-pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 189
^The TX-SR805 definitely has TrueHD and HD-MA decoding.
Mine has the logos right on the front of the unit.
Not sure why yours doesn't... that's very weird.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
Smarty-pants is offline  
post #22818 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 10:55 PM
Senior Member
 
Acousticality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
OK, nevermind, yea it does have it. Its just under the flip out door. Either way the other topics listed above are still valid differences.
Acousticality is offline  
post #22819 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 11:45 PM
Senior Member
 
absolootbs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: SW OH
Posts: 479
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5 Post(s)
Liked: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

OK, nevermind, yea it does have it. Its just under the flip out door. Either way the other topics listed above are still valid differences.

kind of...

I didn't take the time to research it, but I'd bet the two subwoofer outputs on the pioneer are simply an internally split single output. Assuming I'm right, that difference could be washed away by putting a $2 splitter on the back of the 805.

Also, comparing receivers' power ratings as given by their manufacturers is as useful as a screen door on a submarine. The 805 was bench tested to put out 181 watts into 8 ohms at .1% distortion with 2 channels driven, 162 watts with 5 channels driven, and at 120 watts with all 7 channels driven it was barely even under its rated 2 channel spec of 130 w/ch. I couldn't find any bench tests for the pioneer, but if it follows along with the other 98% of receivers out there, I'd bet it's lucky to reach it's rated spec with 2 channels driven, and is significantly lower with all 7 driven. And fwiw, I'm pretty sure the 805 is class A/B, not class A. I don't believe I've ever heard of a receiver thats straight class A. The majority of the heat produced by the 805 comes from things other than the amplifier section.

I'm not saying the pioneer isn't a decent receiver, or that it wasn't a good deal at whatever price you paid for it. But it's advantages most likely do not lie on the audio side of things. Network connectivity, streaming apps, airplay, and the video inputs/processing/capabilities that you mentioned - those are the things that more modern receivers like the pioneer have over the 805.
Smarty-pants and xact like this.

absolootbs is offline  
post #22820 of 23136 Old 02-06-2014, 11:55 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Smarty-pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by absolootbs View Post

kind of...

I didn't take the time to research it, but I'd bet the two subwoofer outputs on the pioneer are simply an internally split single output. Assuming I'm right, that difference could be washed away by putting a $2 splitter on the back of the 805.

Also, comparing receivers' power ratings as given by their manufacturers is as useful as a screen door on a submarine. The 805 was bench tested to put out 181 watts into 8 ohms at .1% distortion with 2 channels driven, 162 watts with 5 channels driven, and at 120 watts with all 7 channels driven it was barely even under its rated 2 channel spec of 130 w/ch. I couldn't find any bench tests for the pioneer, but if it follows along with the other 98% of receivers out there, I'd bet it's lucky to reach it's rated spec with 2 channels driven, and is significantly lower with all 7 driven. And fwiw, I'm pretty sure the 805 is class A/B, not class A. I don't believe I've ever heard of a receiver thats straight class A. The majority of the heat produced by the 805 comes from things other than the amplifier section.

I'm not saying the pioneer isn't a decent receiver, or that it wasn't a good deal at whatever price you paid for it. But it's advantages most likely do not lie on the audio side of things. Network connectivity, streaming apps, airplay, and the video inputs/processing/capabilities that you mentioned - those are the things that more modern receivers like the pioneer have over the 805.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Again, just like you said too, not saying the Pioneer is not a quality avr, it most likely is, but the basic features of the Onkyo work well, the decoding works well, and the power and quality_of_power is truely remarkable at it's price point.

As for the heat dissipation from the 805... most of that heat comes from the HDMI board.
If you ever try running the 805 without using HDMI (or I think specifically the HDMI OUTPUT), then it really doesn't get very warm at all comparatively.

We probably sound like a bunch of "fanboys", but I think that's okay when you have good reason to boast about how good a product is. smile.gif
xact likes this.

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
Smarty-pants is offline  
post #22821 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 06:20 AM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
So I'll look into where the 805 was built later. Sports got in the way last night. As in playing, not watching....

I took a peek at the Oppo. $500 for a BD player, yikes. One plus for an AVR upgrade is that all components connected to it, which in my case is all but the ChromeCast and Wii, will benefit from the output and there's not need for a One Remote To Rule Them All as switching is done through the AVR.... If I'm going to do it, which seems to be unlikely now, it would be the AVR. Which was one of the appeals of the Pioneer. However, I take onboard the fact of the amps (Brown Burr DACs) on the 805 and the lower class of the 1323/1523 units.

On the E2PROM issues, I see the error message every time the 805 comes out of standby. We don't get power outages that often, so it isn't really much of an issue I suppose. I will try and go dig for a copy of the service manual. I'll also, if I can find an optical cable and if the PS3 still does it, try the FW upgrade again. Thankfully, I still have the files for the 1.08 FW upgrade, as I supply them occasionally.

Seggers

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22822 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 06:42 AM
Advanced Member
 
asere's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 959
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acousticality View Post

OK, nevermind, yea it does have it. Its just under the flip out door. Either way the other topics listed above are still valid differences.

Also make sure dvd player is set to Bitstream so the 805 can display the TrueHD, DTS MasterHD.
asere is offline  
post #22823 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 11:30 AM
Immaculate Grand Phoobah
 
grubavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: on the noisy end of the Half Moon Bay, CA Airport
Posts: 3,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

So I'll look into where the 805 was built later. Sports got in the way last night. As in playing, not watching....

I took a peek at the Oppo. $500 for a BD player, yikes.
(snip)

Seggers

An OPPO is a "deal at their price (as was the 805). Customer service is unequaled. Product quality also.

p.s., Dolby True HD & DTS-HD MA certainly show up on my 805. Have since I first played King Kong HD-DVD a lifetime (electronically speaking:)) ago...

Rem facias, rem
si possis, recte, si non, quocumque modo, rem.
grubavs is offline  
post #22824 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 12:01 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
seggers's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: WNY
Posts: 2,103
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by grubavs View Post

An OPPO is a "deal at their price (as was the 805). Customer service is unequaled. Product quality also.

p.s., Dolby True HD & DTS-HD MA certainly show up on my 805. Have since I first played King Kong HD-DVD a lifetime (electronically speaking:)) ago...

I have an old style PS3 (phat), so I've only ever done LPCM from it to the 805. Not sure that I weighed in saying it didn't do DTS HD etc. anyhoo...

I read some of the posts on the first Oppo BD player coming out and I knew that it was an expensive player. Like you, I came into this tech when there was BD/HD DVD combo players and when I chopped that back, I'm pretty sure that the PS3 was up there. I suppose my ceiling for costs has come down with the costs of run of the mill BD players falling. Oppo is not run of the mill....

Seggers

Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
seggers is offline  
post #22825 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 01:03 PM
Member
 
tmuller's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 43
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

So I'll look into where the 805 was built later. Sports got in the way last night. As in playing, not watching....

I took a peek at the Oppo. $500 for a BD player, yikes. One plus for an AVR upgrade is that all components connected to it, which in my case is all but the ChromeCast and Wii, will benefit from the output and there's not need for a One Remote To Rule Them All as switching is done through the AVR.... If I'm going to do it, which seems to be unlikely now, it would be the AVR. Which was one of the appeals of the Pioneer. However, I take onboard the fact of the amps (Brown Burr DACs) on the 805 and the lower class of the 1323/1523 units.

On the E2PROM issues, I see the error message every time the 805 comes out of standby. We don't get power outages that often, so it isn't really much of an issue I suppose. I will try and go dig for a copy of the service manual. I'll also, if I can find an optical cable and if the PS3 still does it, try the FW upgrade again. Thankfully, I still have the files for the 1.08 FW upgrade, as I supply them occasionally.

Seggers

My Panny BDT500 does as much as the OPPO, though may not be the "elite" build quality or have the best customer support, though for what I need, works like a champ at $159 bucks.

-troy
tmuller is offline  
post #22826 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 01:19 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
Smarty-pants's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 16,442
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 189
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmuller View Post

My Panny BDT500 does as much as the OPPO, though may not be the "elite" build quality or have the best customer support, though for what I need, works like a champ at $159 bucks.

-troy

I guarantee you it doesn't even come close to doing as much as the current Oppo players do,
but if you are happy with how the Panny works for your needs, that's a good thing for you. wink.gif

~Dave

...Theater Room Setup...
JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
JBL LC2 (x3) ... JBL L820 (x6) ... SVS PB10-ISD (x2) ... SVS 20-39-PCI
Smarty-pants is offline  
post #22827 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 02:20 PM
Immaculate Grand Phoobah
 
grubavs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: on the noisy end of the Half Moon Bay, CA Airport
Posts: 3,663
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

I have an old style PS3 (phat), so I've only ever done LPCM from it to the 805. Not sure that I weighed in saying it didn't do DTS HD etc. anyhoo...

I read some of the posts on the first Oppo BD player coming out and I knew that it was an expensive player. Like you, I came into this tech when there was BD/HD DVD combo players and when I chopped that back, I'm pretty sure that the PS3 was up there. I suppose my ceiling for costs has come down with the costs of run of the mill BD players falling. Oppo is not run of the mill....

Seggers

I was responding to two posts and failed to make that clear... sorry.

Rem facias, rem
si possis, recte, si non, quocumque modo, rem.
grubavs is offline  
post #22828 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 04:35 PM
AVS Special Member
 
riverwolf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Wilmington, NC
Posts: 1,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by seggers View Post

{snip}... there's not need for a One Remote To Rule Them All as switching is done through the AVR.... {snip}

While good for an included remote, the 805's remote is still no match for a true programmable remote. The Harmony brand is very aptly named. No frustration from trying to teach the SO/parents/kids/sitters how to get the entertainment system to do what they want. Just press the appropriately labeled button "Watch TV", "Play Wii", etc....all switching gets done automagically and the single remote controls source/AVR/display. Some of the best $50 one can spend on this hobby, IMO.

And depending on what services you use with your Chromecast, you might want to consider moving it to the AVR since it is capable of 5.1 output.

-Brent
riverwolf is offline  
post #22829 of 23136 Old 02-07-2014, 05:21 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jon S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Sunny Hawaii
Posts: 2,855
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 138 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post

While good for an included remote, the 805's remote is still no match for a true programmable remote. The Harmony brand is very aptly named. No frustration from trying to teach the SO/parents/kids/sitters how to get the entertainment system to do what they want. Just press the appropriately labeled button "Watch TV", "Play Wii", etc....all switching gets done automagically and the single remote controls source/AVR/display. Some of the best $50 one can spend on this hobby, IMO.

And depending on what services you use with your Chromecast, you might want to consider moving it to the AVR since it is capable of 5.1 output.

-Brent

Compared to other brand name remotes (Pioneer, Yamaha, Sony, etc), the Onkyo remotes are by far the most friendly remote. Pioneer has the worst of all, super slim, tiny buttons, tiny text colors that do not read well and finally unorganized... When I converted from Onkyo to Pioneer, I loved the Pioneer AVR and despised their remote. It forced me to buy a Harmony One...

If it's not a BIG screen, it's not a theater...
Jon S is offline  
post #22830 of 23136 Old 02-08-2014, 10:21 AM
Senior Member
 
Acousticality's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 255
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 19
This is a superficial thing. However, based on the onkyo 805 having a metal front panel and door, I was surprised to find out that all the front panel materials on the Pioneer SC-1323-K seem to be made of plastic made to look like brushed metal.

Does anyone know if the comparables in todays market, the Denon X4000, Onkyo TX-SR929, etc. have metal or plastic fronts?
Acousticality is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off