"The" Onkyo TX-SR805 Thread - Page 767 - AVS Forum
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post #22981 of 23005 Old 08-17-2014, 07:35 PM
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Haven't tried it w/ the other inputs. Everything is either passed through or upconverted to HDMI with a single cable going to the television.

Isolating the issue surely seems like the next sensible step given that it doesn't appear like a common bug.
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post #22982 of 23005 Old 08-17-2014, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknoberts View Post
Isolating the issue surely seems like the next sensible step given that it doesn't appear like a common bug.
Suggest trying the other two component inputs and passing it through Component Out to see what result you get.
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post #22983 of 23005 Old 08-18-2014, 02:29 AM
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Originally Posted by tanman View Post
The Onkyo 838 had a favorable review in the Sound and Vision Magazine. It does have the power and a few future proof items for a good list price.
AccuEQ. ...Not EQuing the two front mains, very unfortunately. ...But Dolby Atmos Ready.

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post #22984 of 23005 Old 08-18-2014, 02:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknoberts View Post
Haven't tried it w/ the other inputs. Everything is either passed through or upconverted to HDMI with a single cable going to the television.

Isolating the issue surely seems like the next sensible step given that it doesn't appear like a common bug.
Did you read your manual in the Component Video Connection and Video Setting sections? ...Pages 28-29, and 50.
Some good tips there, and useful info regarding THX settings for best picture quality.
Take your time, read, and set all the proper adjustments. ...It's a complex machine with many settings.
And make sure you disable the CEC Control feature, even if it's for HDMI (page 99).

* Are you from North America or the UK? ...Page 60 in your manual (NTSC/PAL setting).
{Troubleshooting: The picture is distorted, @ page 115 in your manual.}

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Last edited by NorthSky; 08-18-2014 at 02:54 AM.
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post #22985 of 23005 Old 08-24-2014, 02:45 AM
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Question for my fellow 805 owners about running 2 subwoofers that are different models.Using a Y adapter for connection ;what is the best way to adjust a left front corner existing sub (M&K 350 Thx) in a 7.1 configuration adding a PSA XS15se in a near field,right rear?I have been running the built-in Onkyo set up adjustments which do not allow for a second sub and of course my ears.My theater is modest in size 16'deep and 15.6' wide with a riser for stadium seating.The new sub will be positioned next to the right rear seat for a near field effect.???

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post #22986 of 23005 Old 08-24-2014, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by olinda cat View Post
Question for my fellow 805 owners about running 2 subwoofers that are different models.Using a Y adapter for connection ;what is the best way to adjust a left front corner existing sub (M&K 350 Thx) in a 7.1 configuration adding a PSA XS15se in a near field,right rear?I have been running the built-in Onkyo set up adjustments which do not allow for a second sub and of course my ears.My theater is modest in size 16'deep and 15.6' wide with a riser for stadium seating.The new sub will be positioned next to the right rear seat for a near field effect.???
Hook up both subs with the Y cable so they are running as one.
Then, turn off one of the subs, and calibrate the other one as you normally would.
Then, turn off the one you just calibrated and turn on the other one and calibrate the second one as you normally would.
Now that both have been calibrated individually, turn them both on and calibrate them as one, making tweaks where necessary.

Do it that way for any setup, but if you are going to use Audyssey, do it before running your Audyssey calibration.
Be sure to keep the volume of the subs turned to a nice level that Audyssey can handle.
Most people make the mistake of turning the subs up too high which will trigger an error in the Audyssey.
For your subs that'd probably be between 9 o'clock and 12 o'clock on the subs dial.
A good calibration will put the sub volume in the 805 right in the middle of it's volume range after you have calibrated both subs together.
If the 805's volume range goes from -10 to +10, then a good final volume would be -0-.

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JVC DLA-RS40-U... Oppo BDP-105D... Toshiba HD-XA2... Uverse VIP-2250... Roku Streaming Stick... Emotiva XPA-3... Onkyo TX-SR805
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post #22987 of 23005 Old 08-24-2014, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ricknoberts View Post
Haven't tried it w/ the other inputs. Everything is either passed through or upconverted to HDMI with a single cable going to the television.

Isolating the issue surely seems like the next sensible step given that it doesn't appear like a common bug.
The 805 is best used as a pass through device for all video, except maybe 480i via RCA. The 805 has a relatively weak, even for its time, video processor. It actually downscales 1080i/p component to 720p HDMI when used for component->HDMI conversion. Chances are, the tearing you're seeing is a function of the 805's scaling munching the signal...either the 805 ends up outputting a bad signal or the signal it does output can't be properly interpreted by your particular display. Either route componenent in->component out->display or pick up an HDMI switch from someone like Monoprice to increase the number of HDMI ports as was recommended earlier.

If you search back in this thread, most of the limitations of the 805's chip have been discussed ad nauseum. IIRC, another relatively major issue was incorrectly interpreting the anamorphic flag on 480i/p 16:9 material. Source material would end up letterboxed *and* pillarboxed when output.

-Brent
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post #22988 of 23005 Old 08-24-2014, 02:38 PM
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Originally Posted by tonyv138 View Post
Hello, a follow up... I have set up my 805 with PS3 (HDMI out of PS3) and Epson Projector also HDMI connected. So when I attempt to play music on PS3, I have to turn the on projector on to activate a sound, after that I can turn the projector off. Cant figure out why. The HDMI settings seem to be correct. Any suggestions for further investigation would be appreciated.
{snip}
Thanks, Tony
Tony, if you're still around, the problem might simply be the PS3 is looking for an "ack" from the display before it will output HiRes. As I recall, PS3s (Sony) were particularly bad about strict copy protection. You could try the "HDMI Out" button behind the drop down panel. "Off" makes the 805 become the end of the HDMI chain. I use this when I listen to DVD-A/SACD sources via an older OPPO DVD player. With the OPPO, I can't remember if the 805 will recognize the HiRes audio with HDMI Out = On and the HDMI display off...I just do it to avoid having to fire up the front projector for musics discs and instead route video to an RCA monitor for disc navigation.

-Brent
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post #22989 of 23005 Old 08-25-2014, 06:56 AM
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I've searched this monstrous thread with terms like 10dB, LFE PCM, etc and found a number of mentions, but no answers, so here it is:

Does the 805 suffer from the "no boost on PCM" issue? Here's the problem I'm encountering trying to tune my system with Room EQ Wizard (REW).

Both my main monitors and sub are powered, so I set all speaker trims within the receiver to 0.

Using a channel 1 (left speaker only) pink noise test tone over HDMI with REW I calibrate my left channel to 75dB with the SPL meter. I then engage the sub, disable the speaker and calibrate the sub to read 75dB. I re-enable my left monitor and do a L+Sub sweep. It looks and sounds correct. The 805's listening preset was "stereo".

Now switching sources to play a CD with 2 channel PCM the sub is barely active. You can't hear it. If I boost the sub channel by 10dB it sounds correct. But then when I play something DTS or DD the sub is way too hot. Again with "stereo".

I thought the LFE PCM "bug" was only for multichannel material where there is a literal LFE channel coming in over digital? I shouldn't be seeing this when using straight 2 channel PCM (listening in "stereo" mode with sub active and crossover at 80Hz) should I?

Even more confusing is if I calibrate with REW and then check with the 805's internal calibration sound, the sub appears to be 10dB low...I have no idea why that is.

How do you strike a balance between "encoded" vs raw PCM formats for the sub channel? Is the solution to manually bump the LFE channel by 10dB, and then use the 805s LFE menu setting to drop every format BUT PCM down by 10dB? Can that really be the solution?

I've gone around in circles on this so many times I'm lost. I could really use a hand as I suspect I'm missing something simple.

I also have Spearrs & Munsil 2nd Edition available to assist in nailing this down, but I thought REW would be plenty enough with such easy access to channel specific test tones over HDMI...

*if this has been covered extensively in the thread I apologize, and would really appreciate a link to that discussion as I can't seem to dredge it up...

Last edited by HDgaming42; 08-25-2014 at 07:01 AM.
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post #22990 of 23005 Old 08-25-2014, 08:12 AM
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Doing further reading, it seems I'm using subwoofer and LFE interchangeably, which isn't correct.

I guess using the PC running REW to play out 2 channel music over HDMI would be the most appropriate next troubleshooting step, no?

Bass management--my head is spinning! Playing out pink noise to the left channel as PCM and listening in "stereo" mode, calibrating both the left speaker and the subwoofer with pink noise (using frequency limited for the sub), then engaging the crossover SHOULD result in music seamlessly moving between monitor and sub, correct?

What am I missing here? The format of the test tones I send and the CD music I play is the same--PCM 44.1kHz. The listening preset is the same.

The only difference is the input! One is on HDMI 1 while the other is HDMI 3.

I guess I'll try CD music from the PC tonight. Anything else to watch for / try? Thanks!

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post #22991 of 23005 Old 08-25-2014, 04:41 PM
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To the people who PM'ed me about the DSP and FW update files. My very bad for taking so long. I sent them to you within the last hour.

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Mits 73835, Denon X4000, Emotiva UPA5 (triggered), Wharfedale Pacific Evo 40s, CS, 10s, the internet, a NAS drive, a TiVo Series 3 and an Oppo 103 (bye bye PS3). There's also a Wii, but we don't talk about that...
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post #22992 of 23005 Old 08-25-2014, 08:42 PM
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The Audyssey Setup Guide tells how to set your subwoofer before calibration, and after if it needs to be lower in its Gain control.

Very simple, very straightforward. ...And it tells you which simple tools you need (mic stand and Radio Shack SPL meter and disc to use).

And all the proper settings in the Onkyo speaker and subwoofer (LPF of LFE) menus.

* Because your system is more complicated; LFE integrated into your main speakers, and the sources you are using, PC, PCM, REW, ... you'll need to dig into the Guide, as it is also indicated.
It would take me few hours @ least to help you out with your particular situation, but time is running out for me; I am much older than I used to be.

Best of luck. ...Fellow Canadian from Alberta.
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post #22993 of 23005 Old 08-26-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
The Audyssey Setup Guide tells how to set your subwoofer before calibration, and after if it needs to be lower in its Gain control.

Very simple, very straightforward. ...And it tells you which simple tools you need (mic stand and Radio Shack SPL meter and disc to use).

And all the proper settings in the Onkyo speaker and subwoofer (LPF of LFE) menus.

* Because your system is more complicated; LFE integrated into your main speakers, and the sources you are using, PC, PCM, REW, ... you'll need to dig into the Guide, as it is also indicated.
It would take me few hours @ least to help you out with your particular situation, but time is running out for me; I am much older than I used to be.

Best of luck. ...Fellow Canadian from Alberta.
Thank-you! I will (re) read the Audyssey setup guide and see what progress I make. I am not yet ready to run Audyssey (it is disengaged), but assume you're referring to the general principles found in the article...

My current line of thinking is that the 805's test signal for my sub ends up having me set it 10dB hotter in comparison to REW's test signal. This seems to be borne out with a frequency sweep. The 805 appears to be pushing a louder bottom end. I used both a UMIK-1 (with calibration file) and a stand-alone...ummm...iphone SPL meter (SPLnFFT). Although they were not in total agreement, the ratio with which they changed was consistent.

I'm unsure if this is a problem with the 805, REW or my usage of both. I've taken some measurements comparing my AVR to REW and posted the process over here:
Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

I suspect the other thread is a better fit at the moment, until (if) I determine the 805 is the issue...
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post #22994 of 23005 Old 08-29-2014, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by riverwolf View Post
Tony, if you're still around, the problem might simply be the PS3 is looking for an "ack" from the display before it will output HiRes. As I recall, PS3s (Sony) were particularly bad about strict copy protection. You could try the "HDMI Out" button behind the drop down panel. "Off" makes the 805 become the end of the HDMI chain. I use this when I listen to DVD-A/SACD sources via an older OPPO DVD player. With the OPPO, I can't remember if the 805 will recognize the HiRes audio with HDMI Out = On and the HDMI display off...I just do it to avoid having to fire up the front projector for musics discs and instead route video to an RCA monitor for disc navigation.

-Brent

Thanks Brent, I'll give it a shot.
-tony
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post #22995 of 23005 Old 08-29-2014, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by seggers View Post
To the people who PM'ed me about the DSP and FW update files. My very bad for taking so long. I sent them to you within the last hour.

Seggers

Seggers, got your PM, and responded,


Thanks, Tony
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post #22996 of 23005 Old 08-29-2014, 02:03 PM
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Thanks Brent, I'll give it a shot.
-tony

With HDMI Out set to yes - no play until I turn my projector on, with HDMI set to no, the pay stutters.


Thanks, Tony
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post #22997 of 23005 Old 09-04-2014, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post
I'm unsure if this is a problem with the 805, REW or my usage of both. I've taken some measurements comparing my AVR to REW and posted the process over here:
Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

I suspect the other thread is a better fit at the moment, until (if) I determine the 805 is the issue...
So it was ultimately determined the dB difference I'm seeing has to do with extreme variations I'm seeing in the bottom end. Now that I've run Audyssey (late last night) I'm confused. Yet again.

So manually setting my speakers so that 0 MV on my AVR is 75dB resulted in moderate trim levels for my speakers. Something like L +1.0, C +0.5, R 0. I run my sub out through a miniDSP with the sub set to full gain (manufacturer's recommendation) and then attenuate the minidsp's gain to dial in the overall output level to be 75dB. I measured this using REW's RTA function to best average out my variable lower end.

This resulted in a fairly (for my room) even 20 to 20000Hz sweep. I only have L, C, R and Sub set up.

I ran a 3 point Audyssey, 1 being MLP, 2 being 1.5 feet to the left of MLP and 3 being 1.5ft right of the MLP.

Audyssey dropped my front speakers to nearly -10 across the board, and put my sub to +3 (which I can't raise after the fact).

Here's where things start to look insane, which makes me think I'm not understanding Audyssey correctly:


Individual channel sweeps looks OK, but when I do a full 20 to 20k sweep with, say both the L + Sub engaged the level of ONLY the L channel drops dramatically--the sub stays were it was. I've attached a graph.

Can anyone comment on this phenomenon? The 805 was in "stereo" mode and REW would feed Channels 1 and 2 over HDMI, allowing the 805 to create the sub output (it chose 90Hz as the crossover).
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post #22998 of 23005 Old 09-04-2014, 07:31 PM
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I wish I could help you, but I'm no expert on how to interpret measurements correctly, and even less on how to make them accurately.

* Markus would be your best bet. ...The technical audio guru (one of them) here @ AVS.

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post #22999 of 23005 Old 09-05-2014, 10:03 AM
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Originally Posted by NorthSky View Post
I wish I could help you, but I'm no expert on how to interpret measurements correctly, and even less on how to make them accurately.

* Markus would be your best bet. ...The technical audio guru (one of them) here @ AVS.
Thanks--I think I'm headed for a processor reset. I have a lot of crazy stuff going on regarding Audyssey dropping overall SPL...
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post #23000 of 23005 Old 09-05-2014, 11:52 AM
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post #23001 of 23005 Old 09-11-2014, 08:41 PM
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To the people who PM'ed me about the DSP and FW update files. My very bad for taking so long. I sent them to you within the last hour.

Seggers
Seggers, i do not think you saw my PM. I discovered that I cant send any until my post count is > 15. So here is my public email

tonyv4570@gmail.com


Thanks, Tony

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post #23002 of 23005 Old 09-13-2014, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post
So it was ultimately determined the dB difference I'm seeing has to do with extreme variations I'm seeing in the bottom end. Now that I've run Audyssey (late last night) I'm confused. Yet again.

So manually setting my speakers so that 0 MV on my AVR is 75dB resulted in moderate trim levels for my speakers. Something like L +1.0, C +0.5, R 0. I run my sub out through a miniDSP with the sub set to full gain (manufacturer's recommendation) and then attenuate the minidsp's gain to dial in the overall output level to be 75dB. I measured this using REW's RTA function to best average out my variable lower end.

This resulted in a fairly (for my room) even 20 to 20000Hz sweep. I only have L, C, R and Sub set up.

I ran a 3 point Audyssey, 1 being MLP, 2 being 1.5 feet to the left of MLP and 3 being 1.5ft right of the MLP.

Audyssey dropped my front speakers to nearly -10 across the board, and put my sub to +3 (which I can't raise after the fact).

Here's where things start to look insane, which makes me think I'm not understanding Audyssey correctly:


Individual channel sweeps looks OK, but when I do a full 20 to 20k sweep with, say both the L + Sub engaged the level of ONLY the L channel drops dramatically--the sub stays were it was. I've attached a graph.

Can anyone comment on this phenomenon? The 805 was in "stereo" mode and REW would feed Channels 1 and 2 over HDMI, allowing the 805 to create the sub output (it chose 90Hz as the crossover).
Looking at your graph, it appears that the LFE (red line) is the channel dropping dramatically (from 70 to 200 Hz), which is the way it should be. I don't know, but Audyssey may be matching the L and R levels to the LFE level at the crossover point, at which it is already on it's way down. Try setting LPF to 70 or 80Hz.

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Last edited by Augerhandle; 09-13-2014 at 10:47 AM.
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post #23003 of 23005 Old Yesterday, 08:38 AM
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Is it normal that all of my presets are lost if I disconnect power to the receiver? any way to retain them?
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post #23004 of 23005 Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM
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Yes it's normal; after a certain time the memory collapse (way of speech)...usually after three or seven days.

* You should have written them (on a piece of paper). ...You'll have to start all over again. ...Unfortunately, sorry.

* Don't sweat the small stuff.

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post #23005 of 23005 Old Yesterday, 11:46 AM
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gotcha - but mine is instant - even if i turn it off for a split second, is there a battery to replace?
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