The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 20350 Old 08-13-2007, 09:16 PM
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Is everyone finding the same thing Jerry is? Is the 3808 not passing any lows to the fronts?
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post #542 of 20350 Old 08-13-2007, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jerryray View Post

My first 3808 did not work, I agree it does not pass any lows to the front speakers. I have large JBL speakers with dual 10" woofers that used to sound great, now I MUST use a sub to get decent bass.

I bought a 10" sub to augment the jbl's but it's not what I expected.

When I called Denon, the tech said they were training on Friday and promised to call me today at 5PM.

Well, no call today and am very disappointed in this receiver.

I am going to ask my dealer to switch it for something else.

So you have it set to "large" fronts, LFE + MAIN, and have your crossover set at lowest possible. Did you make sure your EQ on Audessey or manual was setup correctly? You might want to check that too. You didn't turn on the Dynamic Range Control by accident maybe?

Just tossing out ideas to check.

I am not having this problem at all. In fact, I think despite the awful audessey setup, the manual controls have enabled me to tweak and get the sound exactly like I want it. It definately sounds better with more detail on the hi's out of my Infinty Alphas and a better bass handling. It handles the PCM very well too coming from my dvd and matrixes the 5.1 into 7.1 nicely.
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post #543 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangerfish View Post

Ya, as per my post in the 3808/4308 thread, u need to call them. I left the guys name an extension that helped me. An authorized dealer can not advertise anything less than msrp.

Oh I didn't know that....THANKS!

Panasonic TC-P50ST60 plasma HD television, Onkyo TX-SR805 and PIONEER ELITE VSX-47TX receivers, Klipsch RB-75(2 pair) and RB-61 bookshelf speakers, Klipsch RSW-10, RSW-12(2), Velodyne HGS-12, HGS-18 subwoofers, OPPO BDP-103, PS3 80G, PIONEER DV-525 dvd player, Klipsch RS-42 surrounds, Klipsch RC-52 center channel
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post #544 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 12:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Is everyone finding the same thing Jerry is? Is the 3808 not passing any lows to the fronts?

Yes, this was exactly what I found. I was very disappointed and 99% of the way to returning it and then it spontaneously broke (infant mortality). I just checked out a Marantz hoping that it would pass lows to the fronts but it's cut-off is 60Hz.

What is it with these modern AVRs that claim 20Hz-20kHz frequency response and then utterly fail to do that with the main speakers. It's as if they were all designed by twelve-year-olds who've never worked with real stereo equipment. I really don't think that it should be necessary to spend $12k on a whole series of separates and struggle to integrate them into some kind of coherent A/V system.

I'm not looking for something "perfect" -- just something descent. If the Denon had passed low signals I probably would have kept it even with the awkward UI, terrible remote, bad automatic speaker setup and truly silly audio processing modes like "Stadium," etc. (By the way, I want to find all the geely twits who add idiodic processing modes like that to receivers and kill them all; thereby moving human evolution forward 100K years in one fell swoop. Who in their right minds think that these "cutsy" modes are useful?)

Casey
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post #545 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 12:53 AM
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Originally Posted by siobhan06 View Post

Thanks leedom for your candid observation,i have enjoyed reading it and imagining the furstration. I was in the process of pulling the trigger on the 3808CI or the V2700 and a pair of mythos tower. Like you i am more into sound. From your experience how does the yamaha 2700 rate against the 3808 and would i better served to wait for the V3800.I already have TH50PX600U and i would be getting the 46XBR3 along with A/V receiver. My aim is to have a receiver that has a multi room capability with a very good sound capability.

I honestly couldn't tell you. I've been using a Yamaha VX-1400 for the last three years but haven't been happy with it for much the same reasons that the Denon failed on. I'm pretty much looking for the same thing that you are. I had hoped for an HDMI-based solution but I think that I may have to back off to component. I'm currently looking at reviews of the Rotel RSX-1057 -- mostly because my old Rotel was so rewarding. We'll have to see. So far I've been very disappointed in the entire AVR world but I would like the integrated convenience ...

Casey
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post #546 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by bases1616 View Post

BB Magnolia's across the country are starting to get 3808's in there warehouse. Go check it out and they do price match. I preordered mine in Orlando back in July and it will be here on August 16th. Also, if you use your BB credit card you can get no APR until Jan 2009.

Do they price match online retailers?

Brandon
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post #547 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 10:21 AM
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I don't have the 3808ci yet, but I have a question on the Audyssey setup. Do you have to let the Audyssey process set your speaker distances to also get the EQ?

After a few posters mentioned here that their subs weren't being reported or their distances were a little off, I'm curious on what the setup process is? Can you set your speaker distances first and then do the EQ setup after?
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post #548 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Is everyone finding the same thing Jerry is? Is the 3808 not passing any lows to the fronts?

I hope not. I'm getting one of these later this week and I don't have a sub but will instead rely on my main speakers (Klipsch Forte) for the low end.

I mean, if no lows are sent to the front, why even have a main speakers large/small selection?
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post #549 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Stangs55 View Post

Well I've discovered a consistent 40-ish ms of lag in my Onkyo 875...since I play alot of 360/PS3 games online, this is not really an option.

In an effort to keep from reading 16 pages, can anyone with the 3808 confirm/deny (with any kind of actual testing) that the Denon does not have any lag?

Thanks

Anyone?

XBOX - Hyperplasia | PS4 - Hyperplasia
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post #550 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by harrellnukeem View Post

I haven't explicitly checked it but by memory I seem to recall that output is whatever you want it to be regardless of input. It also remembers what the sound field was the last time you had that input set. So if on "CD" you do stereo it will remember Stereo output.

Darrell

So each of your inputs has its own surround mode, so I can have it off for CD and on for DVD? That would certainly work.

I wonder if there is some technical reason why you can't get two speaker output with surround on, like whatever format a CD player outputs is identical to a 5.1 format.
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post #551 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 11:47 AM
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Is there a forum where I can see what settings people are using because a lot of the settings I do not understand and the manual does not help out at all. For example all of those settings under audio parameters on page 41 of the manual sound like they could really help the sound quality because I am still having issues where I am unable to understand the what people are saying in a movie, but then are blown away whenever anything exciting happens. Extremely annoying.
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post #552 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 12:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Is everyone finding the same thing Jerry is? Is the 3808 not passing any lows to the fronts?

I am not having this issue as far as I could tell. I would think this would have a lot of what you have your crossover set to.
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post #553 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

I don't have the 3808ci yet, but I have a question on the Audyssey setup. Do you have to let the Audyssey process set your speaker distances to also get the EQ?

After a few posters mentioned here that their subs weren't being reported or their distances were a little off, I'm curious on what the setup process is? Can you set your speaker distances first and then do the EQ setup after?

I got my 3808ci yesterday and set everything up last night. I did not use any of the auto setup features and set up everything manually with a sound meter. This thing absolutely kicks butt. I was using a 3801 for the past six years and I thought that AVR was great. Compared to this, it is the difference between night and day. I demo'd the Onkyo 605 and 805 over the past couple months and I was pretty pleased overall. After seeing and hearing the difference that the 3808 is capable of, the 2 Onkyo's cannot even attempt to play in the same sandbox. Not sure how the Onkyo 875 video can be any better than this. I am very pleased so far with the Denon.
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post #554 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 01:29 PM
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I am not having the problem of the lows not being passed to the front speakers. I skipped the Audessey setup b/c it wasn';t working properly. I ran a firmware update yesterday so perhaps it will work better now.

On a side note, has anyone been able to get the receiver to display a 7.1 signal being input from a ps3 when playing a blu-ray movie? I can only get it to display a 5.1 signal coming in and then it has to matrix the back surrounds and displays a 7.1 output on the front of the unit. I was under the impression that the ps3 decodes dolby truehd and dts ma and sends the signal out in linear pcm as a 7.1 signal for the receiver to disperse appropriately. Once ps3's are able to output those formats in bitstream, i will obviously use the denon to decode them. For now, however, can someone tell me what I may be missing?

Ryan
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post #555 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT23 View Post

I got my 3808ci yesterday and set everything up last night. I did not use any of the auto setup features and set up everything manually with a sound meter. This thing absolutely kicks butt. I was using a 3801 for the past six years and I thought that AVR was great. Compared to this, it is the difference between night and day. I demo'd the Onkyo 605 and 805 over the past couple months and I was pretty pleased overall. After seeing and hearing the difference that the 3808 is capable of, the 2 Onkyo's cannot even attempt to play in the same sandbox. Not sure how the Onkyo 875 video can be any better than this. I am very pleased so far with the Denon.

from what ive gathered the 805 should sound the same as the 875, now could you describe what the difference in sound was from the 3808 to the 805 you listened to. what speakers did you demo it on if you can remember what were the differences in sound if you could describe it.

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post #556 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HT23 View Post

I got my 3808ci yesterday and set everything up last night. I did not use any of the auto setup features and set up everything manually with a sound meter.

- Sorry if my question wasn't clear. Can you still run the Audyssey EQ after manually setting up the distances and speaker level? I'm curious if running the EQ process will set the levels again after a manual setup.
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post #557 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rmiller View Post

So each of your inputs has its own surround mode, so I can have it off for CD and on for DVD? That would certainly work.

I wonder if there is some technical reason why you can't get two speaker output with surround on, like whatever format a CD player outputs is identical to a 5.1 format.

Yes. They are set by "last sound field used" in the memory. So when you switch back and forth it remembers what was set last. "surround on" isn't a concept that I am aware of. The input and the output seem to be completely autonomous on the receiver. You can receive 5.1 and output stereo if you want... just push the stereo button. Just like receiving 5.1 and outputting 7.1 (in a variety of methods at that). You can receive stereo and matrix it out to 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1. Or just put it in "stereo" mode and it will go to stereo.
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post #558 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by techtvman View Post

from what ive gathered the 805 should sound the same as the 875, now could you describe what the difference in sound was from the 3808 to the 805 you listened to. what speakers did you demo it on if you can remember what were the differences in sound if you could describe it.

I had identical experience. Manual setup capabilities are outstanding. Sound quality is better than 3805. Even on regular broadcast TV (HD with 5.1) is amazing.
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post #559 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 03:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odub303 View Post

I am not having the problem of the lows not being passed to the front speakers. I skipped the Audessey setup b/c it wasn';t working properly. I ran a firmware update yesterday so perhaps it will work better now.

On a side note, has anyone been able to get the receiver to display a 7.1 signal being input from a ps3 when playing a blu-ray movie? I can only get it to display a 5.1 signal coming in and then it has to matrix the back surrounds and displays a 7.1 output on the front of the unit. I was under the impression that the ps3 decodes dolby truehd and dts ma and sends the signal out in linear pcm as a 7.1 signal for the receiver to disperse appropriately. Once ps3's are able to output those formats in bitstream, i will obviously use the denon to decode them. For now, however, can someone tell me what I may be missing?

Ryan

I didn't know that LPCM could be in 7.1... my HD-DVD only outputs 5.1 LPCM (HD-A2)
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post #560 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tokerblue View Post

I don't have the 3808ci yet, but I have a question on the Audyssey setup. Do you have to let the Audyssey process set your speaker distances to also get the EQ?

After a few posters mentioned here that their subs weren't being reported or their distances were a little off, I'm curious on what the setup process is? Can you set your speaker distances first and then do the EQ setup after?

You can see a note in the manual for the Audessey on what to set the crossover and the volume and something else on the sub to before running the test. i think it won't pickup the sub if you have some settings on your sub not set right. Of course, I am manually setup and happy now so why mess with it.
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post #561 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by odub303 View Post

I am not having the problem of the lows not being passed to the front speakers.

But what kind of speakers do you have? My speakers are Vandersteen 2Ci's and have a -3dB point at 29Hz which is Very Low compared to most speakers which have -3dB points typically in the 40-60Hz range -- even "large" speakers. If you don't have main speakers with extended bass range, then you probably won't notice the problem that I and several others found.

Casey
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post #562 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 05:59 PM
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Casey, either you've got a software setting that's interupting the bass to your front speakers or you have a malfunctioning unit. No matter what you may think of Denon, they wouldn't let a design out of the lab that doesn't pass bass to the front speakers. That would be caught by the lowliest of interns on the first day of testing.

Have you attempted turning Audyssey entirely off? Have you dropped your crossovers to their lowest point? Are you set with Large fronts? Are LFE + Main selected? If the answer to all of those is Yes, then you'll have to deal with their online support people or your local shop to dig further.

If it really won't do it, maybe you have a bad unit - there's already someone else on the forum who's had to return one. And there are several people operating without the same issue, so it's not a design flaw.
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post #563 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Is everyone finding the same thing Jerry is? Is the 3808 not passing any lows to the fronts?

Ken and others.

Spoke with the techs at Denon today.
They say to set the front speakers to small not large, only use large if you have a powered speaker? OK if they say so.

The other problem is when I have the audio set to 5 channel, I lose audio sometimes.

Today I was watching discovery channel, set to 5 ch, all of a sudden no audio except to the sub, then when a commercial ran, the unit switched to dolby and I had sound. Commecial over back to the program I see 5 channel appear, no audio except the sub. Waited an hour for Denon to call back. Perhaps tomorrow.
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post #564 of 20350 Old 08-14-2007, 09:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryray View Post

Today I was watching discovery channel, set to 5 ch, all of a sudden no audio except to the sub, then when a commercial ran, the unit switched to dolby and I had sound. Commecial over back to the program I see 5 channel appear, no audio except the sub. Waited an hour for Denon to call back. Perhaps tomorrow.

I'd be willing to bet that was a problem with the broadcast. I've had that happen a few times with my cable. The fact that the commercial had sound is the part that leads me to believe it was the broadcast and not the receiver. I've also seen only the front left and right channels come through on a 5.1 broadcast; and I don't mean it was stereo, I mean it was missing the dialogue from the center and the other speakers even though the receiver was getting a 5.1 signal (with 4 channels with no sound).

Erik

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post #565 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryray View Post

Ken and others.

Spoke with the techs at Denon today.
They say to set the front speakers to small not large, only use large if you have a powered speaker? OK if they say so.

The other problem is when I have the audio set to 5 channel, I lose audio sometimes.

Today I was watching discovery channel, set to 5 ch, all of a sudden no audio except to the sub, then when a commercial ran, the unit switched to dolby and I had sound. Commecial over back to the program I see 5 channel appear, no audio except the sub. Waited an hour for Denon to call back. Perhaps tomorrow.

So... bizarre enough you get more control if you set to small and go into the advanced menu for cross-overs by speaker. Also, I recall now but not why that when we worked at Ultimate we didn't sell a single speaker that they recommended be set to "large." Set to small for sure. It made a big difference for me to get more base by setting to small and going advanced on crossover and setting to 40hz (my speakers handle to 43 hz +- 3db).

I have really full sound now. Even the surround back have more bass now.
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post #566 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 06:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrellnukeem View Post

So... bizarre enough you get more control if you set to small and go into the advanced menu for cross-overs by speaker. Also, I recall now but not why that when we worked at Ultimate we didn't sell a single speaker that they recommended be set to "large." Set to small for sure. It made a big difference for me to get more base by setting to small and going advanced on crossover and setting to 40hz (my speakers handle to 43 hz +- 3db).

I have really full sound now. Even the surround back have more bass now.

That's good news. Leedom, have you had a chance to see if bass is being sent after making that adjustment?

Brandon
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post #567 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 07:21 AM
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I have a Samsung LN-T5265f which supports 10bit, what setting on the Denon do I have to have to make sure the Denon is outputting 10bit? When I go into HDMI status it always says 8bit.
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post #568 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

That's good news. Leedom, have you had a chance to see if bass is being sent after making that adjustment?

Brandon

Bass was being sent before... more is being sent now though... I can feel it distinctly from the rears and a little more from the front.

Setting to small and going into the "advanced" setup on the crossover made a big difference. It sounds like if you have "powered" speakers for the fronts then you need to run a sub cable to each one of them as well (they typically have the input).

Of course I can't answer for Leedom but it definately pumped up the impactfulness for me.
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post #569 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by harrellnukeem View Post

Yes. They are set by "last sound field used" in the memory. So when you switch back and forth it remembers what was set last. "surround on" isn't a concept that I am aware of. The input and the output seem to be completely autonomous on the receiver. You can receive 5.1 and output stereo if you want... just push the stereo button. Just like receiving 5.1 and outputting 7.1 (in a variety of methods at that). You can receive stereo and matrix it out to 5.1, 6.1, or 7.1. Or just put it in "stereo" mode and it will go to stereo.

My JVC RV8000 has a global surround setting that applies to all of the inputs, so "Surround On" means send signals to all 5 speakers, and "Surround Off" means send signals only to the mains.

I suspect I'll have trouble getting used to the Denon's complexity when I get it.
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post #570 of 20350 Old 08-15-2007, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rmiller View Post

My JVC RV8000 has a global surround setting that applies to all of the inputs, so "Surround On" means send signals to all 5 speakers, and "Surround Off" means send signals only to the mains.

I suspect I'll have trouble getting used to the Denon's complexity when I get it.

Doesn't seem complex. It has the inverse... it has a stereo button. You push it when you want Stereo.
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