The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 20360 Old 08-29-2007, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by mark69 View Post

I have a Direct TV HR20 DVR connected to my 3808 with an HDMI cable. I had the HR 20 set to 720p and the 3808 upconverting the signal to 1080p since I own a 1080p Sony XBR TV.

So I have 2 questions about this set-up.

1. Would I be better off picture quality wise setting the HR 20 to native and just having the Denon upconvert the signal once, instead of having the video processed twice like I have it now?

2. Has anyone had problems with the video going black for a couple of seconds when watching with the Denon video convert on? I notice it mostly on my ESPN2 hi def channel, but on other channels also. I understand when you change channels there will be a delay, but this is happening occassionally when I am on the same channel. I don,t lose the audio though.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

I have the same setup, I don't have that problem. Watch the display on the 3808, if it loses the signal it will show the input information just as if you switched inouts.

Also try resetting the HR20
Could also be a poor HDMI cable, my first cable caused strange problems/
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post #902 of 20360 Old 08-29-2007, 09:53 PM
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I have my 3808ci pre-order with J&R but it seems they're not going to have any stock until mid September. Can somebody PM me with a reseller that has some in stock for a competitive price. It seems that some people posted that their reseller matched JR's price--which would be good. Thanks!
J
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post #903 of 20360 Old 08-29-2007, 10:39 PM
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I feel the same about the SD channels. There's just no way that 480i will look decent, no matter what you do. I think these LCD/Plasma HDTVs make SD channels look really bad. Funny, I spent a couple of nights in a hotel recently that had a crappy CRT TV - SD channels never looked this good, it made me feel bad for spending a lot on an LCD TV

I get the best results by going through the Denon and upconverting to 1080p (I have to, my HDTV can't deal with 480i over HDMI).

We have to struggle for another 18 months or so until we can hopefully get all HDTV. With DirecTV claiming 150 HDTV channels soon, we may not have to wait that long.
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post #904 of 20360 Old 08-29-2007, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeremysm View Post

I have my 3808ci pre-order with J&R but it seems they're not going to have any stock until mid September. Can somebody PM me with a reseller that has some in stock for a competitive price. It seems that some people posted that their reseller matched JR's price--which would be good. Thanks!
J

Try ABT, Robert x2787, they are an authorized dealer and match prices.
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post #905 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 01:34 AM
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Originally Posted by SirDracula View Post

I'm not sure that the Audyssey measurements are accurate (I did take 8 positions around the main listening area). The distances were OK, but the crossovers were another story.

I have no reason to believe that the EQ curves are correct either, though that's impossible for me to tell, I don't know how to measure it outside of Audyssey, an SPL is no good for this.

The other thing is that I think Audyssey should be using test tones that come from a DVD, not generated by the receiver.



I've used the Audyssey feature on numerous installs and am sold by it's effectiveness. It's not perfect in it's speaker configuration and a lot of times I had to manually adjust the F/C/R speakers to small and fine tune the x-over points from there. But it's implementation of the EQ curves are pretty darn accurate according to my RTA readings (you'd need a Real Time Analyzer to effectively read the frequency response).

The Audyssey software requires a specific noise generator and supplying that on a DVD is just an added cost and waste of integration. I have no problem using the generator from Denon.
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post #906 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LushMojo View Post

Anyone using the 3808 with a Harmony 880 remote? I've always had good luck with the setup of the Harmony, but with the 3808 I CANNOT seem to get everything working correctly. I have my Comcast box and my Xbox 360 set up in activities and they work fine. However, my DVD activity just won't set the right HDMI input. The input names that the Harmony web setup uses aren't the same as the actual input names (HDMI).

Is there anything special about some of the HDMI inputs on the 3808? Should I perhaps use a different input? I have the Comcast box (Motorola DCH 3416) in HDMI 1 (which is labeled DVD). I have the dvd player in HDMI 2 (labeled HDP) and the Xbox 360 in HDMI 2 (labeled TV/CBL).

Beyond that, I LOVE the Denon. It literally beats the Onkyo 875 that I just returned hands down.

I've setup my friend's new home the 3808CI + Logitect Harmony 670 and do not have the same problems as you.

1. Did you try assigning the input sources to HDMI input connectors on pg. 39 of manual? Assign them to be:
TV/CBL: HDMI 1 (Comcast)
DVD: HDMI 2 (DVD player)
V.AUX: HDMI 3 (XBOS)

2. Have you updated your Logitech hardware and firmware? The latest software seems better than the last few iterations.
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post #907 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeremysm View Post

I have my 3808ci pre-order with J&R but it seems they're not going to have any stock until mid September. Can somebody PM me with a reseller that has some in stock for a competitive price. It seems that some people posted that their reseller matched JR's price--which would be good. Thanks!
J

I just orded mine (Shiped yesterday) http://www.electronic-expo.com/ They will match J&R and have in stock. Ask for Richard Rella Very nice and seemingly honest guy.
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post #908 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark69 View Post

I have a Direct TV HR20 DVR connected to my 3808 with an HDMI cable. I had the HR 20 set to 720p and the 3808 upconverting the signal to 1080p since I own a 1080p Sony XBR TV.

So I have 2 questions about this set-up.

1. Would I be better off picture quality wise setting the HR 20 to native and just having the Denon upconvert the signal once, instead of having the video processed twice like I have it now?

2. Has anyone had problems with the video going black for a couple of seconds when watching with the Denon video convert on? I notice it mostly on my ESPN2 hi def channel, but on other channels also. I understand when you change channels there will be a delay, but this is happening occassionally when I am on the same channel. I don,t lose the audio though.

Thanks in advance,
Mark

I did not think the this receiver would upconvert HDMI to HDMI. i.e. your HR20 HDMI out to the HDMI IN of the AVR -3808CI. Is this not just a pass through?
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post #909 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 09:19 AM
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i have a few questions regarding what ive read in the pdf manual. i dont have this receiver yet, im still trying to decide on this one or the 875

on page 30 it states that deep color 10/12 bit signals are converted to 8bit.
what does this mean for deep color support and for future use when we get some deep color stuff.

also on the same page what is progressive mode auto/video1/video2

and color space RGB and YCbCr explain that a bit as well

-- TechTVMan

My Setup
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post #910 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hzw50 View Post

I did not think the this receiver would upconvert HDMI to HDMI. i.e. your HR20 HDMI out to the HDMI IN of the AVR -3808CI. Is this not just a pass through?

this receiver does upscale hdmi.
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post #911 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodegaBay View Post


I've used the Audyssey feature on numerous installs and am sold by it's effectiveness. It's not perfect in it's speaker configuration and a lot of times I had to manually adjust the F/C/R speakers to small and fine tune the x-over points from there. But it's implementation of the EQ curves are pretty darn accurate according to my RTA readings (you'd need a Real Time Analyzer to effectively read the frequency response).

The Audyssey software requires a specific noise generator and supplying that on a DVD is just an added cost and waste of integration. I have no problem using the generator from Denon.

When I turn on the Audyssey feature, I get major sync issues with the video. It appears to me that the audio is being delayed by the Audyssey processor. I tried the audio delay setting but what I need to do is delay the video to match the audio. Any suggestions? Should I rerun the setup?
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post #912 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by dsundstrom View Post

When I turn on the Audyssey feature, I get major sync issues with the video. It appears to me that the audio is being delayed by the Audyssey processor. I tried the audio delay setting but what I need to do is delay the video to match the audio. Any suggestions? Should I rerun the setup?

That's odd. There's two Auto Delay settings. One manual, one automatic. Did you use the auto setting?
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post #913 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rizzxx7 View Post

this receiver does upscale hdmi.

Like rizzxx7 says, it's confirmed that the new Denons upconverts HDMI incoming signals to HDMI out. It only upconverts 480i and 480p though so the HR20's output settings must be set to native.
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post #914 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:03 AM
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Originally Posted by BodegaBay View Post

Like rizzxx7 says, it's confirmed that the new Denons upconverts HDMI incoming signals to HDMI out. It only upconverts 480i and 480p though so the HR20's output settings must be set to native.

Thank you for this info, this is a very cool high-end feature. My follow up is what is native mode mean , and which unit does a better job upscaling the DVR or the AVR

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post #915 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by techtvman View Post

i have a few questions regarding what ive read in the pdf manual. i dont have this receiver yet, im still trying to decide on this one or the 875

on page 30 it states that deep color 10/12 bit signals are converted to 8bit.
what does this mean for deep color support and for future use when we get some deep color stuff.

also on the same page what is progressive mode auto/video1/video2

and color space RGB and YCbCr explain that a bit as well

Tech,

I've listened to both the 875 and 3808CI and find that the Denon has better sound processing (more ambience and details) for my tastes. Additionally, the Audessey implementation on the Denon is much better executed.

1. Page 30 i/p Scaler Settings is a bit confusing. I think it only goes to 8-bit if you choose the A-H/H-H setting. Deep color is indeed supported as defined on pages 11 and 75.

2. Page 30 Progressive Mode. This is similar to progressive upscapling modes on certain Panasonic DVD players. It's a moot point if you already upconvert through your DVD player and/or STB cable/SAT box. I'll just paraphrase how Panasonic explains these tranfer modes:

Auto: Auto detects Vid 1 or Vid 2
Video 1: Compatible with 30 frame-per socond film content in addition to 24 frame-per-second film content.
Video 2: Detects 24 frame-per-second film content and appropriately converts it.

3. Page 30 Color Space. Read this Audioholics Q&A for Color Space and HDMI 1.3a spec.

All-in-all the 3808CI is an excellent receiver. The GUI over HDMI is a godsend (finally!) but they could have definitely explained some of the features better in the manual.
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post #916 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodegaBay View Post

Like rizzxx7 says, it's confirmed that the new Denons upconverts HDMI incoming signals to HDMI out. It only upconverts 480i and 480p though so the HR20's output settings must be set to native.

So I could not have my HR-20 output 1080i via HDMI and have the 3808 upconvert to 1080p?
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post #917 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BodegaBay View Post

Tech,

I've listened to both the 875 and 3808CI and find that the Denon has better sound processing (more ambience and details) for my tastes. Additionally, the Audessey implementation on the Denon is much better executed.

1. Page 30 i/p Scaler Settings is a bit confusing. I think it only goes to 8-bit if you choose the A-H/H-H setting. Deep color is indeed supported as defined on pages 11 and 75.

2. Page 30 Progressive Mode. This is similar to progressive upscapling modes on certain Panasonic DVD players. It's a moot point if you already upconvert through your DVD player and/or STB cable/SAT box. I'll just paraphrase how Panasonic explains these tranfer modes:

Auto: Auto detects Vid 1 or Vid 2
Video 1: Compatible with 30 frame-per socond film content in addition to 24 frame-per-second film content.
Video 2: Detects 24 frame-per-second film content and appropriately converts it.

3. Page 30 Color Space. Read this Audioholics Q&A for Color Space and HDMI 1.3a spec.

All-in-all the 3808CI is an excellent receiver. The GUI over HDMI is a godsend (finally!) but they could have definitely explained some of the features better in the manual.

Denon is for me, till marantz upgrade, fix to next generation
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post #918 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by 6speed View Post

So I could not have my HR-20 output 1080i via HDMI and have the 3808 upconvert to 1080p?

It will de-interlace 1080i content to 1080p. The receiver will NOT do 720p to 1080i or 1080i to 720p. Check out page 30 of the manual.
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post #919 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drewj View Post

It will de-interlace 1080i content to 1080p. The receiver will NOT do 720p to 1080i or 1080i to 720p. Check out page 30 of the manual.

Ok thanks,looks like I used the wrong term.
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post #920 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pclausen View Post

I'm happy to report that my GUI now works on all inputs, even the ones with no video associated with them. Everything began working after I used the web interface to clean up all my settings (much easier to navigate than the on screen GUI IMHO.) Go figure.

I also deleted all the inputs I don't use. This way the input selector knob on the front of the AVR only scrolls through the inputs actually in use. Nice! Of course my 3 most frequently used inputs are also associated with the quick select buttons on the front. I plan to roll all this into my Harmony 880 so it won't really matter, but it is still a neat feature.


I've had my 3808ci for a week, and am very pleased. The scaling works very well (my projector is 720p). The sound is just fine. I compared the Audyssey settings versus my radio shack/avia/dve settings, distance was right. Well, except for the sub, which it thought was 30 feet away (15 feet actually). But LFE is a different beast, and I use an SMS-1, so I overrode the measurement and it was fine.

VERY pleased versus the amps/prepro setup I once had. I was able to remove a lot of cables, and the GUI has been fine- no issues. The detecting of audio flags has also worked flawlessly. Very pleased with price/performance.

Wife and kids were out for the afternoon, so I had about 4 hours to mess around. Scaled 480p DVD picture from Denon DV-1600 was a noticeable improvement over the direct component to projector previously. Also, I use Comcast's piece of junk Motorola box. The Denon seemed to clean up the SD picture as well. Perhaps subjective on that one, as garbage in, garbage out certianly applies to anything Comcast gives you. But the DVD was very clearly better.

The AutoEQ made a noticeable improvement in the sound. My media room is acoustically treated, so it's not too hard to quantify. Certainly on DVDs (Star Wars Attack of the Clones, Batman Begins, Gladiator) I tested, there was a picture and audio improvement. I compared the same chapter starts and keep volume the same.

So far, I am very pleased with the Denon 3808ci. I suppose YMMV, but as this was my $1599, I'm happy
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post #921 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 12:25 PM
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I read in the September 07 Widescreen Review about Remote maintenance thru the Ethernet from Denons remote servers, none of the local dealers knew anything about this (A search of this thread using Remote maintenance also turned up nothing) & I called Denon & they said it is for firmware updates.

What kind of things can be expected to be updated & what can't be updated on line, the CS guy had no idea..

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post #922 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by drewj View Post

It will de-interlace 1080i content to 1080p. The receiver will NOT do 720p to 1080i or 1080i to 720p. Check out page 30 of the manual.

Drew's correct. I forgot to mention it also d/i 1080i to 1080p.
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post #923 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMoose View Post

I read in the September 07 Widescreen Review about Remote maintenance thru the Ethernet from Denons remote servers, none of the local dealers knew anything about this (A search of this thread using Remote maintenance also turned up nothing) & I called Denon & they said it is for firmware updates.

What kind of things can be expected to be updated & what can't be updated on line, the CS guy had no idea..

The simple answer is that anything that would require a change to the hardware (the physical electronics) can't be updated online. For instance, they probably can't increase the power output, or the signal-noise ratio. The GUI menu is all software (firmware), so changes to the menu are possible.

Possible updates could maybe include compatibility with NTFS formatted USB devices, or improve the web interface. (speculating)
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post #924 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by DuallyDave View Post

The simple answer is that anything that would require a change to the hardware (the physical electronics) can't be updated online. For instance, they probably can't increase the power output, or the signal-noise ratio. The GUI menu is all software (firmware), so changes to the menu are possible.

Possible updates could maybe include compatibility with NTFS formatted USB devices, or improve the web interface. (speculating)

The Audioholics review says,
"Remote access over the Internet allows custom installer to dial up a client's receiver and perform configuration updates or even firmware updates (if needed) without stepping foot in the home."
Does this mean only my dealer can do the upgrades or will I be able to update the firmware myself?
The CS guy also said that I would be charged for the updates, is that because only the dealer/installer could do them?

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post #925 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 04:37 PM
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mind blowing receiver! out of box sounded phenomenal.
at least 2x better than onkyo 805, if not more! Highly recommended!
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post #926 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 06:23 PM
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No, I simply plugged the HDMI cables in to each port and the only adjustment I did was rename them. What advantage do I gain by assigning them? I'll be glad to try that if it helps the 880 issue. Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BodegaBay View Post

I've setup my friend's new home the 3808CI + Logitect Harmony 670 and do not have the same problems as you.

1. Did you try assigning the input sources to HDMI input connectors on pg. 39 of manual? Assign them to be:
TV/CBL: HDMI 1 (Comcast)
DVD: HDMI 2 (DVD player)
V.AUX: HDMI 3 (XBOS)

2. Have you updated your Logitech hardware and firmware? The latest software seems better than the last few iterations.

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post #927 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by gordgal View Post

I've been trying to decide between the 3808 (my original favourite) and the not yet released Sony. The Sony got a very good review on CNET and has 6 HDMI inputs but my discovering that it doesn't allow upscaling of HDMI sources, only direct pass through, has put Denon in the lead. On the Sony forum the view is that this is a plus, but in my opinion it is a large omission!!!! None of the new receivers seem to be perfect but it seems that the 3808 will work the best for my present setup.

I'll be buying in the next 2 weeks and am very thankful for all of your reviews & comments (now to decide between the Sony XBR4 and the Samsung 81).

LED Backlight go Sammy....
I love the DCR 2.5 of Sony though...
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post #928 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by zoro View Post

mind blowing receiver! out of box sounded phenomenal.
at least 2x better than onkyo 805, if not more! Highly recommended!

I totally agree with you, I thought the onkyo was terrible.
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post #929 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rizzxx7 View Post

I totally agree with you, I thought the onkyo was terrible.

I wont be using half of the features my self! But only other receiver with 4 HDMI will be one from Marantz, that have severe firmware issues!

GUI is pretty kool and nifty

I have heard so many more sounds on same soundtracks that never exsted before!

I am still trying to figure out weirdo remote though
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post #930 of 20360 Old 08-30-2007, 07:33 PM
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Ordered mine from 6 Avenue...Good price and more importantly had them in stock. We'll see if I get it next week. Thanks for the help!
J
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