The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 316 - AVS Forum
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post #9451 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bashton View Post

Hey dgersic,

In looking at the 3808 back panel, I see Surr A, Surr B and Surr Back / Amp Assign. Am I right in assuming that the same amp drives Surr A & B and it's the same signal? Is it just for sound field, like Yamaha and Presence? Can you only enable / disable in the menu? I don't see that Denon does a Spkr A / B.


Thanks,

bashton

Surround a & b are driven by the same amp. originally they were designed to have either a movie surround(dipole) or a music surround monopole. This started when DVD-A and SACD were big and would allow you a best of both worlds configuration. my 5300 hundred had that and it may have been Denon's first implementation of the concept. also if your room is very long you can use 2 sets of side surrounds using surround a+b (you would want 8 ohm speakers for this)
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post #9452 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronwt View Post

-2 is a lower number than -1.

-2, -1, 0, 1, 2 etc.

yeah i got that part - was good at math - minored in it at UofM. RayJr gave me a call and walked me through the thinking of 0 being the reference level.

That was helpful thanks Ray. Also debugged a few other things. I punched up the sub level which was set to -12 from Auto setup while everything else was +3 or more.

I'm going to run it again later tonight when the kids are down and check it again. See if it does the same thing. Anyway i can now see how to adjust it.
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post #9453 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

#1 curiosity - Why is the volume displayed as a negative number? why is -30db louder than -40db

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_pressure

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decibel
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post #9454 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 06:13 PM
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Hi Everyone, Nice to meet ya all wonderful folks out there and proud owners of Denon 3808 CI.
I am a newbie here and not so techo-philic...so please bear with me.Please be patient while reading my views on Denon as i have got a lot to share and also ask. Feel free to help me out here.Yes u r right..i got some problems.
I have been following AVS forum on Denon for a long time.Based on inputs and feedback, i ended up getting Denon 3808 CI. I wanted to share my experience with Denon and also some typical problems associated with it.Its been almost 8 months of trying Denon reciever with my Polk audio ( Monitor 70 floor standing towers, CS2 center, Polk PSW125 sub and Monitor 40 rear speakers all from Polk". I am using a Sony Upconverting DVD player to go with it.

First things first..
Denon is a Great reciever. No doubt about it.It has got all the great features and some of them probably i wont even use em ( like XM radio and stuff).No comparision with my RCA reciever that i had previously.Here is what i observed with Denon

1) SOUND is clean and just perfect.
2)DVD movies are a treat to watch.The best was "lord of the rings-1" especially the first 10 min and "Matrix".I have thoroughly enjoyed watching the movie "300". The decision to buy polk audio was made when the circuit city fella played a scene from the movie "Hero". Oh my.....what an impact.....and guess what he used as a reciever denon AVR 988.
3) I even Hooked up the ethernet connection and performed firmware upgrades with minimal problems ( spent just 12 hours of my life on that sucker)..and finally enjoyed lossless sound.. a win-win situation here too..
4) I did the audyssey set up atleast 20 times so far....and also tried various speaker positions.For some reason the audyssey set up did some good and some bad to my sound. I dont know if its Denon or the speakers from Polk.The volume is too low ( tv programs) and i usually use volume -40 db. I did a lil more research on this subject as well and decided that its the way the Denons are made and the volume has to be around -30db to -35db in order to quench my thirst. I dont get this?? There is no sound at all till -57db although the manual says -80 to +18 or something like that.

So i went to best buy and got these vantage point bookshelf speaker stands and did run a final audyssey set up. Guess what happened? The volume is now even lower.All my previous config is messed up.I wonder why this low volume problem. And i dont see a "gain" function in Denon to boost up the volume.

Time for some questions now...

Do you think its my speakers or Denon thats doing it? The impedance on all speakers is around 8 ohms. I mean they are not bad speakers either.The dist between towers and my main seating position is only 8 feet. Room size is average.


I see a newly added menu listing in Denon " add a feature" Does that mean we can upgrade it to next highest level in Denon?? what kinda features can we add.

How do i know that i have the latest firmware ? I always use remote and select the "check for update" and it comes up as "latest" . Is that the only way?

How come i Get better sound only when i select "7 channel stereo" for sound output and not others ( virtual,stereo,standard etc etc). Is that the best after audyssey?

When u do audyssey set up do u have to select crossovers for all speakers to maximum as mentioned in the manual or is it just for the subwoofer??

Is there any firmware upgrade available to enhance HDMI switching? that kinda sucks with Denon.

Is there any way we can hook up a network drive to Denon. Network drive has 1 USB and 1 ethernet connectivity (the Jack to connect a cable wire) thats all..I have a Lacie 250gb network drive which is also wired. Or Can we have Windows media player recognize network drive and have Denon Play Music? Pardon me if this is a stupid question.

Does Denon have a cooling fan inside? Do u recommend one?? just like a laptop cooling fan? Wait i got more questions....

How can i add my own "podcast" URL to Denon radio? I cannot even log into denonradio.com and i have contacted them to give me access. I cannot access "preferences" or station list in that site after i successfully connected and played internet radio. Works great.

DO banana plugs and expensive speaker wire improve sound quality? or is it just bunch of B.

How come i cannot see "Dolby prologic - cinema,music" sound output? am i doing something wrong?


I know i asked too many questions...But Please help. Any inputs will be greatly appreciated.

However darker the clouds might be, Never give up;there's always a ray of hope.
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post #9455 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sterryo View Post

Surround a & b are driven by the same amp. originally they were designed to have either a movie surround(dipole) or a music surround monopole. This started when DVD-A and SACD were big and would allow you a best of both worlds configuration. my 5300 hundred had that and it may have been Denon's first implementation of the concept. also if your room is very long you can use 2 sets of side surrounds using surround a+b (you would want 8 ohm speakers for this)


Thanks, making sense now, much appreciated.


bashton

still researching AVRs
Yahama, Denon, Pioneer, ... oh, my!
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post #9456 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 07:33 PM
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Why is the PLII mode missing from my list of surround mode options sometime?
Sometimes I find it there and sometimes I don't.

I'm trying to turn PLII on for a DVD and I only see
Stereo
Direct
Standard
7CH Stereo
Wide Screen
Super Stereo
Jazz etc...

all of these useless modes except PLII
and I know I've seen it before on here when I was setting up the kids xbox.

MR
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post #9457 of 20226 Old 07-20-2008, 11:44 PM
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I have really enjoyed this receiver over the last few months with 4 HDMI switched to a DVI based front projector. I am building an exercise area and decided to use the existing setup to feed a Samsung LCD via an HDMI 2x1 splitter. I will be using a single display at any given time. I believe video switching finally works (more testing needed) but directing audio to the second TV continues to be a problem. I have tried two approaches:

1. Simple HDMI split between two displays. Could not get anything even with HDMI configured to direct audio to TV instead of Amp.

2. HDMI split between two displays as (1) AND analog L/R out from receiver to TV. This seem to work in some cases with DISH DVR but not in all cases.

I sent an email to Denon support and got a lame answer telling me the support guy did not even read my message. I have searched and read many of the posts here but honestly I could not spend the time going through all of the 300+ pages of this thread.
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post #9458 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 01:53 AM
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Silentcutting (wouldn't allow me to quote for some reason!)

Let's answer a few:
1). Check the levels of your input device. Select what you want to listen to then press the enter key on your remote. If the levels are too low, increase them. Next, bring up the menu then select the input device on screen - go to source select then other then SRC level. Increase the dB for either analogue or digital as required.
2).Search the firmware thread regarding upgrades - http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=995566
3).Same as for answer 2 - refer to the first page of the thread.
4).Probably because all your speakers are playing the source it sounds louder. Remember that you need to set up each input (CD, DVD, DVR, Xbox, etc) individually for input levels, front L/R, Rear L/R, Sub, etc (enter key on remote again).
5).Subwoofer only - I suggest that you read this thread (#143): http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...45#post7969145
6).See earlier.
7).Not sure about this, but you can always connect your PC, etc by ethernet and stream music, so depending on the connection to your router, you should be able to do the same. Have a search through this thread.
8).No - but others have made recommendations. Again, search the thread. However, I run my Denon for many hours on end at high volume (DVD viewing sessions) and its only the plastic cover over the top of the heatsink (power transistors) that gets hot - make sure you have good ventilation all round.
9).Not sure.
10).Good quality speaker wire makes a huge difference as does good quality interconnects. Banana plugs are great if it's a bit tight around the back (also good if you bi-wire your speakers as it makes it a lot easier to get two sets of wires in there. Just remember to remove the little black plugs in the speaker posts as they aren't obvious!).
11).Make sure that you have set the surround options for each source - e.g., for my PS2 and Wii, they are both set to PLII Game. My DVR is set to PLII Cinema, etc. Check auto surround settings as well.
9).
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post #9459 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 02:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

Why is the PLII mode missing from my list of surround mode options sometime?
Sometimes I find it there and sometimes I don't.

I'm trying to turn PLII on for a DVD and I only see
Stereo
Direct
Standard
7CH Stereo
Wide Screen
Super Stereo
Jazz etc...

all of these useless modes except PLII
and I know I've seen it before on here when I was setting up the kids xbox.

MR

Have you made sure that your current surround mode isn't set to Pro Logic as this will automatically drop off the PLII options
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post #9460 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 06:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jesyjames View Post

It was my understanding he does recommend changing it since it's the manufacturers who decide the crossover point based on what Audysssey reports. I've read through that entire thread and that was the general consensus, can you show me what you are referring to?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Snausy View Post

Whoever said that the guy in the Audyssey thread is saying to leave crossovers where they are isn't correct imho. From what I've read the contrary is true. Keeping your fronts at "large" when they can't handle the very lows well is counter-productive.

Could you please elaborate or at least link us to where he's saying these things. You are confusing people.

I was half right. He said you can raise the crossover frequency, but not to lower it at all:

Quote:
Originally Posted by audyssey View Post

Changing the crossover is not a problem if you change it to a value higher than what was found. If you change it to a value lower than what was found you start to run out of filter correction power as you move away from the reported frequency. This is done in order to prevent the MultEQ filters from boosting below the measured -3 dB point.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=5165
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post #9461 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 07:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotshotnz View Post

Have you made sure that your current surround mode isn't set to Pro Logic as this will automatically drop off the PLII options

Hmm that s anew one to me i thought this setting WAS the way that the surround mode was set?? i'll have to crack the manual if you're telling me that the surround mode could somehow be set to Pro Logic someplace else??

This system is a little more confusing than i thought. I simply have a sony bdp s500 connected to the denon 3808 and a 7.1 system.

somehow when the sony plays a dts 5.1 dvd i want the system to do the right thing which i think is to run PLII,

So far The receier seems to say PLII when the DVD starts and then i look at it 10min later and its switched itself to 7CH Stereo and I go to the menu and the options for PLII and a few others are now missing.

Im doing something wrong.
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post #9462 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 07:49 AM
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Hi,

I'm new here, and I'm sorry for my bad english, but I hope that you will understand what is my problem. Like owner of Denon 3808 CI, I was so proud and happy til last night, and now I'm so sad, because, of course, now I have problem. My receiver can't read more mp3 from USB flash device. I tried everything, from replacing USB flash with newone, several times format (FAT16, FAT32), changing playmode front/rear, to the master reset, and nothing. The Denon can't find any file on my USB. After I plug in my USB with MP3 music in rear USB port, now, I only can read "Please wait...." message on display, but at the end of loading process (sometimes very rarely) displays message "network problem". More often, displays absolutely nothing! Have anybody heard about this problem ever before? Can it be solved with firmware update maybe, or is it a HW malfunction? For me it looks like that because i can't start this functionality even after Hard reset, and it worked before. Please help, thanks
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post #9463 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by apsloan View Post

Just got mine back from repair with the same problem. It wasn't covered under warranty. $15 materials / $120 labor

hum, seems like a job for a $0.15 piece of duct tape.
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post #9464 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:54 AM
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Can anyone explain why my SB light is on (on the left-hand side of the display) when I only have a 5.1 system wired up? It seems that the 3808 is mixing the SB sound into my surround A speakers. I have looked everywhere in the menu for a way to turn "off" the SB channel and can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

EDIT: Now I have noticed it is not always lit up. It lights up for LOTR, Pirate of the Carr., and Finding Nemo. It does not light up for Halo 3 and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Two of those are THX. POC is DTS ES. The others are DD. I must be missing something.

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post #9465 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Can anyone explain why my SB light is on (on the left-hand side of the display) when I only have a 5.1 system wired up? It seems that the 3808 is mixing the SB sound into my surround A speakers. I have looked everywhere in the menu for a way to turn "off" the SB channel and can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

EDIT: Now I have noticed it is not always lit up. It lights up for LOTR, Pirate of the Carr., and Finding Nemo. It does not light up for Halo 3 and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Two of those are THX. POC is DTS ES. The others are DD. I must be missing something.

See page 33. Go to "Manual Setup -> Option Setup -> Amp Assign". Make sure you do not have "7.1 CH" selected. Select "Zone2".
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post #9466 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 09:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

See page 33. Go to "Manual Setup -> Option Setup -> Amp Assign". Make sure you do not have "7.1 CH" selected. Select anything other than "7.1 CH".

ZONE 2 was selected.

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post #9467 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

Can anyone explain why my SB light is on (on the left-hand side of the display) when I only have a 5.1 system wired up? It seems that the 3808 is mixing the SB sound into my surround A speakers. I have looked everywhere in the menu for a way to turn "off" the SB channel and can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

EDIT: Now I have noticed it is not always lit up. It lights up for LOTR, Pirate of the Carr., and Finding Nemo. It does not light up for Halo 3 and Lock, Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. Two of those are THX. POC is DTS ES. The others are DD. I must be missing something.

After reading this again I now realized you said the "left" side. That's the input signal. The right side is the output. The right side should just have your 5 channels. The left side will vary depending on the input.
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post #9468 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

After reading this again I now realized you said the "left" side. That's the input signal. The right side is the output. The right side should just have your 5 channels. The left side will vary depending on the input.

So, in other words, some DVDs are inputting a 6.1 track and the 3808 is mixing it into and outputting a 5.1 track?

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post #9469 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by cormoran View Post

Hi,

I'm new here, and I'm sorry for my bad english, but I hope that you will understand what is my problem. Like owner of Denon 3808 CI, I was so proud and happy til last night, and now I'm so sad, because, of course, now I have problem. My receiver can't read more mp3 from USB flash device. I tried everything, from replacing USB flash with newone, several times format (FAT16, FAT32), changing playmode front/rear, to the master reset, and nothing. The Denon can't find any file on my USB. After I plug in my USB with MP3 music in rear USB port, now, I only can read "Please wait...." message on display, but at the end of loading process (sometimes very rarely) displays message "network problem". More often, displays absolutely nothing! Have anybody heard about this problem ever before? Can it be solved with firmware update maybe, or is it a HW malfunction? For me it looks like that because i can't start this functionality even after Hard reset, and it worked before. Please help, thanks

Do you have the USB port you are trying to use activated? You can only use 1 at a time. See page 39 of the manual.
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post #9470 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Nickff View Post

So, in other words, some DVDs are inputting a 6.1 track and the 3808 is mixing it into and outputting a 5.1 track?

Since you don't have any back speakers, you will never see any more than LFE, FL, C, FR, SL, and SR on the right side. So yes, 6.1 and 7.1 will be down-mixed to 5.1.
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post #9471 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan P. View Post

Since you don't have any back speakers, you will never see any more than LFE, FL, C, FR, SL, and SR on the right side. So yes, 6.1 and 7.1 will be down-mixed to 5.1.

Thanks!

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post #9472 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 12:38 PM
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Originally Posted by dloose View Post

Do you have the USB port you are trying to use activated? You can only use 1 at a time. See page 39 of the manual.

Thanks, I know that, and I tried to change and activate USB port several times (1 at a time), but without result.
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post #9473 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotshotnz View Post

Have you made sure that your current surround mode isn't set to Pro Logic as this will automatically drop off the PLII options

I have the same problem, since i'm still a newish owner (20 days) can you tell me go to find out if i have Pro logic selected and how do i change it

Audyssey setup guide
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post #9474 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

Why is the PLII mode missing from my list of surround mode options sometime?
Sometimes I find it there and sometimes I don't.

I'm trying to turn PLII on for a DVD and I only see
Stereo
Direct
Standard
7CH Stereo
Wide Screen
Super Stereo
Jazz etc...

all of these useless modes except PLII
and I know I've seen it before on here when I was setting up the kids xbox.

MR

PLII is not available when recieving a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal
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post #9475 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 06:50 PM
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Hi guys,
I guess you could say this is what I am because this is my first Home theatre set up. I have been researching this for quite some time. Because I decided that I did not want a Bose or a HTIB, I decided, 'yes, you can put this together yourself'. Ahhh, it gets so confusing!

I ordered the Denon 2808CI and the wifi ipod dock to go with it so that I could access the home network to retrieve music. I started thinking about it last night after I went to bed and realized that for a few hundred more $$$'s I could have the 3808CI without having to purchase the sererate ipod dock. So, I will refuse the first shipment and have placed my order for the 3808 through J&R.

I have a set of axiom outdoor speakers coming too. I will invest in 5.1 speakers later.

I was set and all ready after all of research here on this forum and after reading the owners manual and thought I knew how to make my connections. Now, I might have to start over again. I could really use some help here to make sure that I'm on the right track.

I own and wish to connect:
*HD DVD/VCR combo
*direct tv HD DVR
*Sony XBR4 tv

the main zone will be my living room of course. I don't want to watch tv in 5.1 all of the time. I would prefer for the tv's speaker to work for daytime viewing most of the time. We will use the 5.1 speakers for movies and for music in this zone.

in my second zone, I will have my two outdoor speakers on my patio. I know that I can use the zone 2 surround back speakers connections to connect these. I don't think I have any questions here.

Here is the information on making these connections that I got off of the 'official denon 2808' thread.

Direct tv HD DVR>HDMI>Sony Bravia
Direct tv HD DVR>optical cable>2808
HD DVD/VCR>HDMI>2808>HDMI>Sony Bravia

is this right? I used 2808 in the above, because that was the setup for that reciever. Should this 3808 be any different? Is this how the 3808 should be setup too? I know this is not how the owners manual says to set up, but this is what a poster to the 2808 thread said to do so that I don't use 5.1 for everyday tv viewing. I just really don't know if this is right. Please advise. Anyone. I think I am getting more and more confused the more that I think about this. I need help.
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post #9476 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bonscott View Post

PLII is not available when recieving a Dolby Digital 5.1 signal


highly confusing. i thought the purpose of PLII was to take a 5.1 signal and spread it around for a 7.1 system.

How to I make sure i get the best sound out of a 7.1 speaker system with my DVDs on my sony bdp s500? 'll settle for all 7.1 speakers being used not 7Ch Stereo

As far as I can tell most of the new movie DVDs are DTS 5.1 sound tracks aren't they? This should be a pretty common config for everyone in this forum 7.1 denon 3808 with a sony blue ray...

So far i THINK i told the blue ray to stop downmixing things and send the denon what it has... (although i saw no bitstreaming option and read along here assuming that was a f* up by sony and its missing)

i have no idea what the 3808 is doing - I keep going into menues that look like they change change from one visit to the next...

Anyone know where on this unit is the "DO THE RIGHT THING SWITCH" for taking in DTS 5.1 sound and spreading it around to a 7.1 system. Richt now I seem to get one of 2 things... either I get 7CH Stereo or I get 5.1 with the back 2 speakers silent.

I'll go back to the manuals tonight and see if i can at least look on the units LCD and determine what it thinks its getting and what its says its doing with it.
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post #9477 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

highly confusing. i thought the purpose of PLII was to take a 5.1 signal and spread it around for a 7.1 system.

How to I make sure i get the best sound out of a 7.1 speaker system with my DVDs on my sony bdp s500? 'll settle for all 7.1 speakers being used not 7Ch Stereo

As far as I can tell most of the new movie DVDs are DTS 5.1 sound tracks aren't they? This should be a pretty common config for everyone in this forum 7.1 denon 3808 with a sony blue ray...

So far i THINK i told the blue ray to stop downmixing things and send the denon what it has... (although i saw no bitstreaming option and read along here assuming that was a f* up by sony and its missing)

i have no idea what the 3808 is doing - I keep going into menues that look like they change change from one visit to the next...

Anyone know where on this unit is the "DO THE RIGHT THING SWITCH" for taking in DTS 5.1 sound and spreading it around to a 7.1 system. Richt now I seem to get one of 2 things... either I get 7CH Stereo or I get 5.1 with the back 2 speakers silent.

I'll go back to the manuals tonight and see if i can at least look on the units LCD and determine what it thinks its getting and what its says its doing with it.

I just setup the system for 7.1yesterday.
You do not need to go into the surround menu at all, I think this is where a lot of people screw up.

What you need to do is make sure you have gone into the Denon menu and selected Manual Setup--> Option Setup--> Amp Assign -->7.1 CH

Then select your source (DVD, Blu Ray etc.,) Start up the DVD or Blu ray and select an audio format (lets say Dolby Digital) in the Dvds menu, once themain movie starts bring up the Denon menu up and select:

Parameters --> Audio--> Surr. Parameters--> SB CH Out --> PLIIx Cinema

do this for all of your cources AND audio formats (Dobly Digital 5.1, DTS, LPCM, TrueHD, DTS MA etc.,) once that's all set for all sources and audio formats that you want to apply PLIIX to the reciever will store your settings in memory. If you've done it correctly when you playback the movie it will read on the reciever Dobly Digital + PLIIXc, or whatever audio format you chose. You will also see the 5.1 speaker lights on the left hand side lit up for input and the 7.1 speaker lights lit up on the right hand side on the reciever's display.

Sorry if it seems long-winded but I wanted to be as detailed as possible and it was still fresh in my memory from setting everything up for 7.1 this past weekend.
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post #9478 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:17 PM
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Originally Posted by mrossi2 View Post

highly confusing. i thought the purpose of PLII was to take a 5.1 signal and spread it around for a 7.1 system.


That's what PLIIx is for. I use PLIIx with all my sources. It works for everything except 6.1 and 7.1 sources.

I don't have a display in the room with my 3808 right now(I'm waiting for the Sasmung LED DLP) so I can't check the menu. But there is a sub menu where you choose DPLIIx and also you pick how you want the back surrounds.

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post #9479 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:19 PM
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I hope my explanation didn't become too convoluted.
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post #9480 of 20226 Old 07-21-2008, 08:38 PM
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I hope my explanation didn't become too convoluted.

nope
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