The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 493 - AVS Forum
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post #14761 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 01:25 PM
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Hey all,

Just was at denon.com and noticed you could side by side compare the 3808 to 4310. From what I can tell 3808 is exactly the same specs as 4310 minus HD radio, ABT video processor, Dlink4. Everything about these two seems otherwise identical like wattage, THD, Brown Burrs etc.. I guess the actual replacement for 3808 is 4310.

So on that note the 3810 seems like a 2809 with an added gui and ABT video, when you look at wattage, and THD these are the same.

Also in case anyone is interested-- Best Buy has Denon sale in stores 3808CI for $1199 -- 2809 for $849 not bad if you like their protection plan.
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post #14762 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 02:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quadcam99 View Post

I should be receiving my Oppo BDP-83 in a week or so. Is there anywhere (or can someone help) that I can find some suggested settings to get me started? Should I turn the scaler off on the 3808 (a setting I've never touched before)? The Oppo will be my first high end player, and I want to have it set up right, to get the most out of it (I'm somewhat of a noob).

I plan on connecting via HDMI. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Cam

Yes you will want to turn off the scaler. Set the source to a video source you are not using, you can name it Blu-ray or whatever you like. Set this source to the HDMI # that you have BD plugged into make sure audio also set to HDMI and set the scaler to off. This setting will only change for the source you have selected. Make sure your BD is set to output 1080P and your all set. Have fun
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post #14763 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 02:09 PM
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I've been searching the threads to answer what is probably a simple question, but haven't been able to find an answer...!

My question is, I've just hooked up via RCA cables an Emotiva UPA 7 amplifier. I just use the receiver for my theater room, no other rooms involved. Are there any settings in the 3808 that I need to or should change now that I've added this amp? I did rerun the Audyssey microphone setup. The amp sure improved the sound of my 3808!

Thanks for your advice!
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post #14764 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

...From what I can tell 3808 is exactly the same specs as 4310 minus HD radio, ABT video processor, Dlink4. Everything about these two seems otherwise identical like wattage, THD, Brown Burrs etc.. I guess the actual replacement for 3808 is 4310.

So on that note the 3810 seems like a 2809....

Concerning your 1st statement - indeed (they upped the model number so they could justify the price increase)!

As for your 2nd statement, don't you mean the 3310 (as far as I can tell from what's been reported they aren't releasing a 3810)? Either way, they're using the same price increase trick there too, though the 3310 also adds Ethernet and GUI to the 2809 (so you're getting more bang for the price increase buck...).
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post #14765 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 10:16 PM
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That's the one 3310, I'm just saying at only $100 bucks cheaper than 3808 you are getting much less in the way of the amp itself. And the 4310 doesn't seem to add $400 more features. Just thought there would be more.
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post #14766 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 10:32 PM
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I'm still confused on direct/pure direct modes:

1. Is there any way to activate/deactivate pure direct from the remote? The only way I've found is using the button on the receiver.

2. From what I can gather, direct mode simply removes bass management (essentially, setting all speakers to large). The manual claims it bypasses all tone controls, but how can it make this claim when you can still choose to apply Audyssey (a fancy, sophisticated tone control)? Further, whether in direct mode or not, there is an option for "tone defeat." Ok, so if I've already defeated tone controls, what additional processing has been bypassed (other than bass management) that makes the signal path more "direct"?

3. Why did Denon choose to down convert bitstreamed sources to 2 ch ? I actually like the sound of direct mode on 5.1 PCM blu-ray concerts. I guess on bitstreamed sources like True HD and DTS MA, I could just set my speakers to large and accomplish the same thing as multichannel direct mode, correct?
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post #14767 of 20258 Old 05-24-2009, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyjammin View Post

1. Is there any way to activate/deactivate pure direct from the remote? The only way I've found is using the button on the receiver.

I'm not familiar with the 3808CI remote specifically but there definitely should be a "pure" button somewhere from the remote.


Quote:
2. From what I can gather, direct mode simply removes bass management (essentially, setting all speakers to large).

DIRECT mode turns off ALL processing, including bass management... with the sole exception that you can OPTIONALLY have Audyssey Room EQ.

Quote:
The manual claims it bypasses all tone controls, but how can it make this claim when you can still choose to apply Audyssey (a fancy, sophisticated tone control)?

because (1) the "claim" predates Audyssey by, like, a decade or so (DIRECT mode has been a feature on Denons for years and years) and (2) it is true, it does disable the tone controls.

Audyssey is NOT a "tone control"; in a way you could argue that, until you correct for the acoustics of the room, you aren't really getting a "Direct" reproduction of the sound since you are really hearing your room inexorably coloring the "pure" sound.

But, either way, these are "purist" oriented features so pick the way that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.


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Further, whether in direct mode or not, there is an option for "tone defeat."

you must be mistaken, you cannot turn on tone controls at all in DIRECT mode.


Quote:
3. Why did Denon choose to down convert bitstreamed sources to 2 ch ?

DIRECT mode was invented initially for "pure" 2-channel audio, and intended only for 2-channel listening. It is really only supposed to be used with PCM sources, since these require no decoding/processing and can simply be D/A'd before heading to the amps. So putting it in Direct/Stereo mode will downmix any multichannel source to 2-channel.

In recent years, now that you can get multichannel PCM over HDMI, they added a "multichannel" version of Direct mode for predecoded PCM sources. It's the same principle as multichannel analog inputs; if you have a source which does all the processing/decoding of the signal, you want a mode where the receiver "gets out of the way" and simply plays the unprocessed PCM signal. Again, just as with 2-ch DIRECT mode there is NO processing at all, with the exception of optionally turning MultEQ on.

by definition, there can be no "DIRECT" mode with a bitstreamed source, because by necessity it must be decoded/processed before you can hear anything. For bitstreamed audio, the "Standard" mode is effectively the "Direct" mode, since all it does is decode and play as mixed by the engineers who produced it. In Yamaha-land this would be the equivalent of "Straight" decoding mode...

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post #14768 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

Did the Audyssey upgrade today and it works great!

I can't get my zone 2 to my patio speakers to output sound. I have my sat, dvd, and ATV all connected with HDMI, have selected zone 2, input set to sat, volume turned up to -28, and my speakers are connected to the far right binding posts and nothing. My understanding is you do not need analog cables to get sound. My 3805 did not pass digital to zone 2 but the 3808 will pass digital inputs to the other zones. It appears I'm missing something here does anyone have any idea what I'm missing? I have the amp assigned to zone 2.

Thanks

HDMI inputs cannot be output to Z2. The only digital input that will go to Z2 is 2ch. from optical or coax.
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post #14769 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avatar9 View Post

That's the one 3310, I'm just saying at only $100 bucks cheaper than 3808 you are getting much less in the way of the amp itself. And the 4310 doesn't seem to add $400 more features. Just thought there would be more.

I completely agree with you on that (comparing the 3808 with the 4310 and 3310 makes it look like Denon is attempting to gouge us). Though, like I said, if you look at the 3310 as the 2809 replacement, at least you are getting a decent addition of real features for the extra $ (Ethernet and GUI). Either way, isn't offering more features/power for the same or less money the whole idea of technological advancements (maybe not to Denon)?
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post #14770 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 09:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm not familiar with the 3808CI remote specifically but there definitely should be a "pure" button somewhere from the remote.

I wish there was, but there is not. I can't find pure direct from the GUI either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

DIRECT mode turns off ALL processing, including bass management... with the sole exception that you can OPTIONALLY have Audyssey Room EQ.



Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

because (1) the "claim" predates Audyssey by, like, a decade or so (DIRECT mode has been a feature on Denons for years and years) and (2) it is true, it does disable the tone controls.

Audyssey is NOT a "tone control"; in a way you could argue that, until you correct for the acoustics of the room, you aren't really getting a "Direct" reproduction of the sound since you are really hearing your room inexorably coloring the "pure" sound.

But, either way, these are "purist" oriented features so pick the way that makes you feel warm and fuzzy.

I'm not arguing the merits of Audyssey. I understand that it corrects in-room response, works in the time domain, etc. I use it and love it. What I'm saying is that when I choose direct mode with audyssey enabled, how is the signal path more "direct" than standard mode with audyssey enabled? It's no different than standard mode with all speakers set to large.


Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

you must be mistaken, you cannot turn on tone controls at all in DIRECT mode.

No, what I'm saying is that when in standard mode, you can select "tone defeat." In fact, this is the default setting for the receiver. So you don't need to be in direct mode to have the tone controls defeated. My point is that you could set all the speakers to large, ensure "tone defeat" is selected, and you have accomplished the same thing as direct mode. Turning on direct mode from here would not make the signal path any more pure, or "direct". At least in pure direct mode, one could argue that disabling the display could potentially remove a source of coloration/interference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

by definition, there can be no "DIRECT" mode with a bitstreamed source, because by necessity it must be decoded/processed before you can hear anything. For bitstreamed audio, the "Standard" mode is effectively the "Direct" mode, since all it does is decode and play as mixed by the engineers who produced it. In Yamaha-land this would be the equivalent of "Straight" decoding mode...

In that case, set all speakers to large, select tone defeat, and you have the same thing as Denon's multichannel PCM direct mode (disable/enable audyssey as you wish). You just don't have the option of pure direct mode for multichannel bitstreamed sources. And by the way, I wouldn't call unpacking dolby/dts "processing" the sound. All it's doing is converting this to PCM.
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post #14771 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyjammin View Post

I wish there was, but there is not. I can't find pure direct from the GUI either.

YES there is!! It is on the main remote when in "amp mode" the led screen has symbols that are: pure, d/st (pure direct, direct/stereo). If you are listening to multichannel pcm then that is what you will get. They are in the middle of the framed in buttons. Check out the photo in the first post of this thread. It shows this right there.

Can't miss 'em unles you are not in the amp mode (very upper left of the lcd)

Steve
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post #14772 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bennyjammin View Post

I wish there was, but there is not. I can't find pure direct from the GUI either.

From the Amp menu on the main remote there's a pure button and that should be it although I have not used the remote. My 3805 had both direct and pure direct buttons and were already programmed into my MX 500.
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post #14773 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 10:36 AM
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Anyone using the Middle Atlantic REB rotating base with the 3808?

Extensive searching showed no posted experiences online.

thanks!

Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense. -Buddha

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post #14774 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fab5valentine View Post

Just hooked up 3808CI, auto set-up etc.. Set-up set the L/R speakers to a x-over of 60 hrtz, and the center to 90 hrtz. However they are all the same speaker rated w/ an FR down to 65 hrtz.. So I went to manual mode, but it doesn't seem to have the ability to move the X-over individually, just a range.. So I set it at 80, but can't tell where what is being implemented. The auto mode still shows the L/R at 60 hrtz. Hmm.. Also, what is restore (yes or No) in the auto set uo mode? Is that allowing me to keep my tweaks or restoring back what I did tweak?? I don't know.. Also, I set LFE to 0db, and zero'd my subs PEQ, turned the subs gain up abit than normal and then let Auto Set-up run.. It set my sub at -8db.. Then I manually checked speaker chanel levels and my sub was equal (close), so I bumped it up to be 1-2db hot.. Is that a correct way or should I have done something different??? Thanks for any help.. Set up seemed fairley easy to me.. I thought it would be more difficult..

The crossover frequencies are calculated depending on what the microphone is "hearing". There is a good chance that your room setup is modifying (damping) some frequencies differently for your speakers. I'd advice you go with what audyssey does for a while and check if it sounds "true" to you.
"Restore" means resetting to Audyssey-generated settings so if you changed some settings you need not repeat the complete setup procedure.
For your other question concerning the sub and for understanding the whole theme you best check the audyssey thread where there is plenty of information and a well-written setup-guide.

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post #14775 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 03:39 PM
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Got a quick question I'm hoping someone here can help me out with. I was wondering if Denon / Audyssey ever figured out what was going on with the feature upgrade package bug. I bought the feature upgrade package right when it came out and now whenever I try to run Audyssey it gives me screwy readings for the distances and levels and everything. This was a common problem back then and they said that it was caused by an error in the update process. You had to send in your 3808 for repair and they would fix it. I never got around to sending it in for repair and just lived with the problem for a while. Right now I am in the process of moving so my 3808 isn't hooked up so I figured I would go ahead and send it in for repair.

My question is do you still need to send it in for repair or did they figure out how to fix it with firmware patch/download? If I do have to send it in for repair is there anything specific I should tell them about the problem? Does it go by a certain name, or do I just say it was the issue with the Audyssey feature pack upgrade?

Thanks a lot for your help. I'm not sure when I will be online again, so if someone knows the answer to my questions I would appreciate it if they could send me a PM so I get it in my email. Thanks, now I'm going back to moving
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post #14776 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 05:36 PM
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i've had my 3808 for about a year now. I still love it. The only problem so far was after throwing all PC's out of my house, we upgraded to MAC's. I enjoy playing my music files over our home network on our denon. i solved this issue with twonky, no problem.

for the first time the other day, i was interested in playing a video that i downloaded from itunes. the denon sees the videos, but it has in parenthesis "not play" next to movies and also next to photos. is it correct that denons network audio is just that, audio only?
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post #14777 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 05:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom C View Post

Unless there is something different about your DirecTV box it should work. I have HDMI going from my HR20-700S DirecTV receiver to my 3808 and HDMI going from the 3808 to my Sony KD-36XS955. This is for programming with audio worth turning on the whole system.

I also have the component plus analog audio going from my DirecTV box directly to my Sony. This is for programming without good audio and also for the technically challenged wife who just wants to watch her game shows and soap operas.

I have the same setup with my HR20-700. Can you tell me what you do with the Surround Mode part of the setup in your 3808?
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post #14778 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I have the same setup with my HR20-700. Can you tell me what you do with the Surround Mode part of the setup in your 3808?

I don't quite understand your question. The HDMI handles the audio in any format.

Tom, do you have the Audyssey upgrade? I downloaded it and the 3808 does in fact pass through the complete HDMI signal through to my TV in stand by mode. I had mine setup similar to yours before and after the upgrade I no longer need the extra component and audio cables.
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post #14779 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

From the Amp menu on the main remote there's a pure button and that should be it although I have not used the remote. My 3805 had both direct and pure direct buttons and were already programmed into my MX 500.

When the Remote Control is in Amplifier (Home) mode, the 1st button in the 2nd row of the GUI (labeled PURE) toggles PURE DIRECT on and off while the 2nd button in the row (labeled D/ST) alternately selects DIRECT or STEREO mode. The 4th button in the top row (labeled standard) selects standard processing types dependent on the material and input mode (the various Dolby DTS, and Neo modes as appropriate). As usual, this is as clear as mud in the manual.

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post #14780 of 20258 Old 05-25-2009, 08:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aforkosh View Post

As usual, this is as clear as mud in the manual.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Denon.
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post #14781 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by aforkosh View Post

As usual, this is as clear as mud in the manual.

Has anyone written a real manual for Denon? Perhaps "AVR-3808ci for Non-Dummies."
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post #14782 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 05:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I have the same setup with my HR20-700. Can you tell me what you do with the Surround Mode part of the setup in your 3808?

It's in auto so whatever the station is broadcasting in is how it'll be decoded/played. Although some shows have some really good audio tracks, most do not. So I'm generally not too concerned about the sound. Most of the time I don't even use my reciever with DirecTV unless I know that the show has good audio.
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post #14783 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 05:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post

Has anyone written a real manual for Denon? Perhaps "AVR-3808ci for Non-Dummies."

Check Batpig's signature. His 'manual' is pretty good, even if he doesn't own a 3808.

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post #14784 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Quote:


Originally Posted by kjgarrison
I have the same setup with my HR20-700. Can you tell me what you do with the Surround Mode part of the setup in your 3808?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

I don't quite understand your question. The HDMI handles the audio in any format.

Tom, do you have the Audyssey upgrade? I downloaded it and the 3808 does in fact pass through the complete HDMI signal through to my TV in stand by mode. I had mine setup similar to yours before and after the upgrade I no longer need the extra component and audio cables.

No, but I have thought about it. The EQ portion of it really interests me. The pass through in standby mode I never really thought about until now. That would simplify a few things. I'll have to think harder on it I guess.
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post #14785 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 11:43 AM
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Thanks for the Info on the Airport express.

So when I connect the Mini to Optical to my Dernon, will this play through Zone 2?

I have HDMI from my Comcast DVR, and my OPPO 83, I read that I also need to run optical or ? to the Denon in order to listen to my Oppo or Comcast DVR in Zone 2? If so, what inputs do I use to hook up 3 devices?

Thanks again. Bob Hanson



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The great thing about Apple is that Apple stuff only likes to work with Apple stuff. Itunes is not a DLNA server. If you want to stream from itunes, get an Apple airport and a mini->regular optical adapter.

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post #14786 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 12:14 PM
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zone 2/3 is only analog or 2.0PCM via SPDIF (optical/coax). So if you connect a music device (ipod dock, airport express, etc) via optical it will play to Zone 2/3 since you will be getting 2.0PCM input.

for the HDMI connected devices, the easiest thing is to connect an analog RCA (red/white) for analog audio, in addition to the HDMI cable, and that will go to Zone 2/3 with no issues.

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post #14787 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

The great thing about Apple is that Apple stuff only likes to work with Apple stuff. Itunes is not a DLNA server. If you want to stream from itunes, get an Apple airport and a mini->regular optical adapter.

In fact, there are DLNA compatible streaming server solutions available that can stream your iTunes library's contents. Some of them are open source, for instance firefly. Eyeconnect ain't open source but its music streaming capabilities remain functional after the 30 days demo period expires.
Only problem remains with DRM-protected iTunes-Store content (non-Plus) that usually will not play.

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post #14788 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by MTAtech View Post

Has anyone written a real manual for Denon? Perhaps "AVR-3808ci for Non-Dummies."

See batpigs autosig - this may be what you're looking for.

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batpig's "Denon-to-English Dictionary"
Setup Guide and FAQ
http://batpigworld.com/

batpigworld Harmony codes for Denon AVR's

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post #14789 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 05:58 PM
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Just purchased this and I am having a issue with it.

When connecting my fios hd-dvr (Motorola QIP-7216) to the 3808 to Samsung LNXXA750 I get a HDCP error and the screen flashes between green and black.

Does anyone have a idea where the issue lies. Connecting the box directly to the tv works so it seems that the issue is with the receiver or how it relays the signal from the box to the tv.
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post #14790 of 20258 Old 05-26-2009, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LucidOne View Post

Just purchased this and I am having a issue with it.

When connecting my fios hd-dvr (Motorola QIP-7216) to the 3808 to Samsung LNXXA750 I get a HDCP error and the screen flashes between green and black.

Does anyone have a idea where the issue lies. Connecting the box directly to the tv works so it seems that the issue is with the receiver or how it relays the signal from the box to the tv.

No idea what a fios box is....

However many here have overcome HDCP issues or HDMI handshake problems by turning on equipment in a certain order.

Try TV first, then receiver, then fios. Alternatively can you swap the cables around or even use different cables (stupid though that sounds it does sometimes work).

Lastly, what resolution does your HD-DVR output. If max is 1080i try using component cables with digital connection (optical/coax) for sound. Then get the avr to convert to hdmi and output to TV. This of course defeats the purpose of buying an avr with HDMI inputs but as a work around, well it should work.

Good luck
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