The "Official" Denon AVR-3808CI Thread - Page 645 - AVS Forum
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post #19321 of 20233 Old 03-06-2012, 11:24 AM
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I think I can if I first directly connect the PS3 via HDMI to the 3D Projector to 'find' the 3D video source; disconnect it from the projector; then connect it to the AVR

that will NOT work because HDMI is an "active" connection, it will re-handshake with whatever device you plug it into.

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Can I connect my PS3 via HDMI to my 3808 and then from the AVR to my 3D projector and play 3D BD games along w/HD audio? I don't need 3D BD movies - just games.

AFAIK there is enough bandwidth for 720p/1080i 3D signals, so games (which are generally not 1080p) might work. It's the full 1080p 3D signal on BD's that will screw up an HDMI 1.3 pass through.

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post #19322 of 20233 Old 03-06-2012, 07:41 PM
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Can I get a stereo amp and connect it up to my Denon 3808 via the pre outs and do the following:

- Run my front speakers in stereo from the stereo amp controlled via the Denon 3808
- Watch movies in 5.1 from my Denon 3808 but ensure that the front speakers signal goes to the stereo amp (uses the stereo amp for front speakers only but still doing the full 5.1 signal using Audyssey via the 3808)

Maybe a better question first - is it worth getting a decent stereo amp for this process VS just using my Denon 3808 for stereo duties/movies....will I notify a big difference?
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post #19323 of 20233 Old 03-06-2012, 09:08 PM
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it sounds like you are overcomplicating a simple question -- are you just asking if you can use an external amp? because the answer is yes, the 3808 has pre-outs for all channels, and you can mix and match internal and external amps freely. Audyssey is really irrelevant to where the signal gets amplified.

now, the "is it worth it?" question is impossible to answer in a vacuum. You haven't told us anything about your setup. But, as a rule of thumb, if you can get it as loud as you want without it sounding harsh or strained, then you probably don't need an external amp.

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post #19324 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wryker View Post

I like to see what's 'activated' when watching movies, etc (is it putting out 6.1, 7.1,5.1, DTS-MA, etc) so when I'm interested I press the button on my Harmony remote I labeled "Denon dimmer" that allows me to cycle through the three levels of the front lights. I check to see what's lit up; then make it go dark. I like it pitch black and have used magazines to cut out sections of black pages to tape (literally) over every power light etc on all my devices so there are no lights on. It looks 'ghetto' with the lights on but they're not meant for that. I hated having the green, red, or blue etc power lights lighting up my room.

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Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

you could just use black electric tape

Or you could visit lightdims.com
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post #19325 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blairy View Post

Or you could visit lightdims.com

cool, what will they think of next?
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post #19326 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 05:01 AM
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Again I am confused...

I believe i have this issue all the time...

Playing music in Pandora off of OPPO 93 HDMI connection

in Direct Mode I get no sub, the window output shows LR SW
In Stereo I get the sub output with the same LR SW output

doesn't change setting speakers from large to small...

am I missing something here? Do I have an intermittent problem?

thanks

Kevin
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post #19327 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary J View Post

WSJ just ran an article about the best HTs in Hollywood. No equipment in sight except for PJ. Nothing subjective about it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...tyleArtEnt_9_2


It's 100% subjective. It's a judgement call and by definition subjective.

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #19328 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 06:52 AM
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Spoken like someone blinded by the lights.
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post #19329 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 08:28 AM
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Setup my 3808CI this morning...early this morning

Ran the audyssey setup and I was ready to cuss every chirping bird and car passing by outside! I really can't wait until I move and can dedicate a HT room in a finished basement!!

I did as instructed and set the sub gain to 12 o'clock...to which Audyssey set the sub to -12dB I played a few movies and while the system sounded nice... I'm sorry to say the impact of explosions just wasn't there for me, so i cheated a little bit... I set the subwoofer gain to about 9 o'clock which is about 25% and re-ran the setup, this time the sub was set to -6.5dB, and then I turned the sub gain knob back up a little more to get the desired effect, not too overpowering, but very apparent a bomb just went off this was with the receiver set to -6 so it was loud as hell but I wanted to make sure that the sub didnt bottom out or have chuffing or etc at louder levels.

Sadly though I ran out of time and had to come in to work...so I'll be playing around a bit more tonight.
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post #19330 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 09:31 AM
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had you read through all the Audyssey setup info, you would know that you need to lower the volume of the sub (try 9 o'clock next) and re-run Audyssey

-12 on the sub channel means the system wasn't calibrated properly. And makes sure after Audyssey that you confirm all speakers are "small" and, if not, change them.

read on: http://batpigworld.com/fadq.html#audyssey

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post #19331 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 11:23 AM
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batpig: Be Gentle, it's my first time I did follow Audysseys setup tips striaght from here:http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to

"Set the subwoofer volume control to its midpoint. If there is a Phase control, it should be set to 0 degrees."

When I was rushing to try to play around this morning I went to thier site first to try to figure out what to do and where to place the mic for the 6 positions. This receiver does up to 8 positions but my couch is up against the back wall...so I am not sure it would be a good idea to get measurements from those positions.

I'm reading more on it to try and get the most out of it tonight when I start messing around again.
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post #19332 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 12:04 PM
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OK, here's your free bonus tips

1) when the sub comes out at -12, that means it's too loud. The "set volume to midpoint" is just a rule of thumb to start, but since your sub is too loud at that level you should lower it to about 1/3 volume and try again. If you don't want to go through all 6-8 positions, you can just do one position quickly, let it calculate and store and then check the sub ch level to see if it's no longer maxed out. So if you check and it's now at -6 or something, you are good to go and run a "full" calibration.

2) one of the rules of Audyssey for good calibration is to avoid back walls and other reflective surfaces. If you measure too close to the back wall you will get problems with comb filtering (reflections off the back wall mixing with the direct sound) and lumpy bass. So, make the first position in the center but about 18-24" in front of the back wall. Then measure the other 5-7 positions within an approx 3' x 2' rectangle centered around position #1, but always staying at least 18" from the back wall. The exact spacing isn't a big deal, just make sure not to go too wide or too close to the back wall.

basically like this diagram, but avoid the back wall: http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq/how-to

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post #19333 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 12:10 PM
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yep reading your stuff and the stuff here now. I like the suggestion of moving 7 and 8 to the diagonal center of 1 3 4 5 for 7 and then the diagonal center of 1 2 5 6 for 8

I just laughed when I read one of the FAQs on My sub is too loud and boomy after running multi EQ. saying basically your not used to it being that loud because it is closer to refrence... yet I was the opposite going...where is my bass???

But again yes I realize I have to play around more and read more to get it setup properly. But I will admit... finally getting my sound system in place is just making me want a 1080p projector more!
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post #19334 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 12:17 PM
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yeah, some people run MultEQ and say "my bass is TOO LOUD!" because they've never heard Dynamic EQ. Although, to be honest, that FAQ question mostly derives from either (1) a bug in the xx09 models which caused a screwy sub calibration or (2) learning how to offset Dyn EQ to compensate for boomy bass with cable TV and music sources.

there are others who complain "my bass disappeared!" like you. Most of the time - assuming proper calibration - that is due to two factors:

1. Your front L/R got set to "large" after Audyssey and thus no bass is getting redirected to the sub. If so, you need to adjust bass management post-Audyssey and ensure that all speakers are "small" and raise the fronts to 60 or 80Hz xover.

2. You are used to lumpy, overbearing bass, and for the first time you are hearing "flat" bass calibrated to proper reference. There might have been some nasty room mode that MultEQ XT cleaned up, so that comfortable "boom boom" you have grown used to has been smoothed out.

That said, many people like their bass a few dB hot, so feel free to bump up the SW level after Audyssey if you want. However, once you get the calibration and bass managements squared away, I would recommend you first live with it for a couple of weeks before making tweaks to see if you just need to get used to hearing flat bass for the first time.

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post #19335 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 12:44 PM
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I reran Audyssey yesterday with the mic points in a tighter arrangement around the main listening position. It is a vast improvement over my first attempt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

1. Your front L/R got set to "large" after Audyssey and thus no bass is getting redirected to the sub. If so, you need to adjust bass management post-Audyssey and ensure that all speakers are "small" and raise the fronts to 60 or 80Hz xover.

I had not seen this part yesterday. Audyssey set all my speakers to Large. I didn't change it because I thought it 'knew' what it was doing. I have always run them Small crossed at 60Hz in the past. I'll change them to small today. But, just to be clear, is the Sub still handling the LFE channel while the speakers are set to large?
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post #19336 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 01:03 PM
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The problem is that Audyssey is not in control of the bass management. If Audyssey had its way they would make sure all speakers were set to small. but the receiver mfgrs refuse to give up control of this aspect.

The LFE signal always goes to be subwoofer. The crossovers control the bass management of the signal to the other channels, but the .1 track always goes to the sub (unless you don't have one).

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post #19337 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

Again I am confused...

I believe i have this issue all the time...

Playing music in Pandora off of OPPO 93 HDMI connection

in Direct Mode I get no sub, the window output shows LR SW
In Stereo I get the sub output with the same LR SW output

doesn't change setting speakers from large to small...

am I missing something here? Do I have an intermittent problem?

thanks

Kevin

Does Anyone have any ideas what's up with my setup?
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post #19338 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinwoodward View Post

Does Anyone have any ideas what's up with my setup?

It's on batpigworld.com
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post #19339 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 03:36 PM
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more specifically, check out the audio section of the FADQ (thanks Gary )

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post #19340 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 03:39 PM
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Thanks for the replies - so if I connect a stereo amp to my front speakers it would simply be setup on one of the Denon 3808 zones?

As far as stereo goes - does the Denon 3808 still affect the sound eg. set stereo/direct/audyssey via the pre out to the external amp?

I assume the Denon 3808 applies Audyssey sound on the pre out also to the front speakers AND existing speakers already on the 3808?
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post #19341 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 04:03 PM
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I thought I was pretty clear when I said: "Audyssey is really irrelevant to where the signal gets amplified."

Audyssey doesn't care where the signal is amplified, period. Digital processing takes place in the processor stage, then the signal goes through the DAC and is sent to the amplifier section. Whether it goes to the pre-out and an external amp, or to the internal amp section, is irrelevant. All the amplifier does is.... amplify the signal. But the Audyssey stuff and any other DSP has already been done to it. So external vs. internal amp simply doesn't matter.

Quote:
so if I connect a stereo amp to my front speakers it would simply be setup on one of the Denon 3808 zones?

no, unless you are trying to power a second zone. I assume you are trying to add an external amp for your main L/R speakers in your primary setup, NOT setting up speakers in another room (zone) correct?

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post #19342 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 06:03 PM
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Can I play music from iTunes on the 3808?
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post #19343 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffinator View Post

Can I play music from iTunes on the 3808?

If you connect your PC to the 3808. But as far as playing Itunes with out a PC I don't think you can unless there's an upgrade that I don't know about. I headr there was an upgrade to play mediaplayer, but I just use my PC. You can play internet radio on your 3808 if you connect your 3808 to the internet. I have my PC, cable, and PS3 all connected to my Denon with a 55" 1080P monitor. I don't even use a sound card on my PC I just connect via HDMI on my video card and I get Dolby Digital True HD surround from my PC.
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post #19344 of 20233 Old 03-07-2012, 10:17 PM
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If you want to play iTunes through your receiver you need a "AirPlay" capable receiver. I upgraded from the 3808 to the A100 and use my iPad or iPod for this feature. Pretty neat feature upgrade which BTW is free now with certain Denon receivers. Also use "AirPlay" with my Klipsch G17 speaker.

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post #19345 of 20233 Old 03-08-2012, 05:40 AM
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You can also get an Airport which allows you to stream from your pc or i device. I think the apple tv may give you that functionality too. Not positive though.
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post #19346 of 20233 Old 03-08-2012, 06:08 AM
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Yes you can use an apple TV to do Airplay straigth frmo a iPad or iPhone get an AppleTV 2 or the new one just announced though. This is what I was planning on doing to add airplay if I wanted it



BTW I started a Denon App thread for anyone who wants to chime in, leanr more or provide more apps to test. Once I have everything setup properly I'll be doing a video review and posting it on that thread

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1397073
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post #19347 of 20233 Old 03-08-2012, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

The problem is that Audyssey is not in control of the bass management. If Audyssey had its way they would make sure all speakers were set to small. but the receiver mfgrs refuse to give up control of this aspect.

The LFE signal always goes to be subwoofer. The crossovers control the bass management of the signal to the other channels, but the .1 track always goes to the sub (unless you don't have one).

Cool. I set the speakers to Small, x'd-over @ 60Hz yesterday. My immediate impression is that the Sub is doing too much now. Not overloading or anything like that. It just seems more noticeable that there is a sub in the system. I'm going to let it stay this way for several more movies and see if it is just my ears that need adjusting.

On the plus side, I finally got my amp to turn on and off using a 12v trigger. It had nothing to do with the Denon. My amp is setup to daisy chain the 12v signal and requires a dummy plug in the spare jack. I wish I would have read that more carefully 10 years ago because it never worked with my Lexicon either. For 10 years I've been doing it manually.

I have a question about playing CDs through a Blu-Ray. Right now I just have HDMI coming to the receiver from the Blu-Ray player. In my last system I only had the optical cable for audio... So I set up a virtual "CD" source using the optical audio input from the Blu-Ray - so it could have different surround processing assigned to it when I wanted to hear a CD.

I tried to do the same thing with the Denon, but there is no HDMI choice for audio on the CD source (or I wasn't looking in the right place). But, looking into it further, it looks like the Denon will 'remember' what I last used for each "signal type" and will auto-magically use it for that signal type every time until I change it? So, if I'm understanding this right, there is no reason to set up a virtual "CD" source for playing CDs through the Blu-Ray unless I want to assign a different audio source (optical, analog) for CDs?
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post #19348 of 20233 Old 03-09-2012, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

that will NOT work because HDMI is an "active" connection, it will re-handshake with whatever device you plug it into.

AFAIK there is enough bandwidth for 720p/1080i 3D signals, so games (which are generally not 1080p) might work. It's the full 1080p 3D signal on BD's that will screw up an HDMI 1.3 pass through.

So, to confirm, if I plug the PS3 directly into the 3808 and then the out put from the 3808 goes to my 3D Projector the PS3 will see the projector as 3D?

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post #19349 of 20233 Old 03-09-2012, 08:42 AM
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^^
As noted in the post you qouted ... yes, most likely for other than "full" 1080p 3D video (although some formats have been known to pass). Bottom line, an HDMI 1.4 AVR will pass every 3D format/resolution, while an HDMI 1.3 AVR (ie. 3808CI) will only pass limited formats/resolutions.

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post #19350 of 20233 Old 03-09-2012, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
As noted in the post you qouted ... yes, most likely for other than "full" 1080p 3D video (although some formats have been known to pass). Bottom line, an HDMI 1.4 AVR will pass every 3D format/resolution, while an HDMI 1.3 AVR (ie. 3808CI) will only pass limited formats/resolutions.

Thanks. I sold my 3D Mitsy DLP since my new Sony has 3D and I have the PS3 going into a 5 x 1 splitter then to the AVR than to a 4 x 2 splitter switch and it doesn't see the 3D projector. I don't need the 4 x 2 any longer so I'll route the ps3 directly into AVR and then the AVR directly to the Sony. I'll see if the PS3 sees 3D going this route.

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