*Official* Denon 5308 Thread - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 09:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

So the 5308 is beginning to show some bruises already and it's not even on the market yet....
For the price Denon is charging for this beast I was counting/hoping that Denon did something special with its video processing... apparently not.
The 4308 is looking better and better.
I think I'll wait to see what Pioneer has done with their new flagship and go from there.

dc

You guys are losing me. What are the "bruises" that are making this piece seem "subpar"? Give it to me in real world - would I know the difference - terms.

Is someone above saying this won't upconvert to 1080p? What is the "no adjustments" on 1080p. I'm confused as hell, and I'm really into this hobby.
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post #272 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bambam View Post

You guys are losing me. What are the "bruises" that are making this piece seem "subpar"? Give it to me in real world - would I know the difference - terms.

Is someone above saying this won't upconvert to 1080p? What is the "no adjustments" on 1080p. I'm confused as hell, and I'm really into this hobby.

DC,

If you read the 3 or 4 snippets of the manual related to video processing. There are lots of caveats on conversions. Suggest you check it out and make your own interpretations/conclusions.

Tim

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post #273 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

DC,

If you read the 3 or 4 snippets of the manual related to video processing. There are lots of caveats on conversions. Suggest you check it out and make your own interpretations/conclusions.

Tim

I assume you meant this post for bambam.

As a local a/v friend of mine pointed out today, the lack of processing for 1080p signals might be a good thing or at least not a bad thing.
Do you really want to mess about with a pristine 1080p/24fps video signal from some of the better blu-ray and hd-dvd players/discs....... probably not.
One look at Ratatouille Blu-ray makes me wonder how much better can it get
So I'm back on the 5308 bandwagon as of now

dc

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post #274 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 03:17 PM
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Yes, the response was for a prior poster.

I think the 1080p passthrough is fine. For me the need is all signals that are not 1080p then they get up converted to 1080p (the only res my projector will take) and it doesn't appear to do that in all cases (though configuring each output individually is a plus.

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post #275 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

Yes, the response was for a prior poster.

I think the 1080p passthrough is fine. For me the need is all signals that are not 1080p then they get up converted to 1080p (the only res my projector will take) and it doesn't appear to do that in all cases (though configuring each output individually is a plus.

If it doesn't upconvert all signals (HDMI, component, etc) to 1080p via HDMI output I'd be shocked. Even my somewhat dated 5805 does this, as well as the new Pioneer's, Integra's, Onkyo's, etc....
And it states right on the 5308 spec sheet:
*Analog video HDMI scaling up to 1080p
*HDMI to HDMI scaling up to 1080p (I didn't get this with the 5805)
Now maybe 1080p scaling is not what you're looking for?

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post #276 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

I think the 1080p passthrough is fine. For me the need is all signals that are not 1080p then they get up converted to 1080p (the only res my projector will take) and it doesn't appear to do that in all cases (though configuring each output individually is a plus.

One thing to keep in mind is that a 1080p signal on component inputs won't come out the HDMI output.

But what case is there where a non-1080p input signal won't be output over HDMI?

Dave
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post #277 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 05:08 PM
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If you check the manual there are specific examples where it says it will not upconvert.

Tim
Selling Anthem PVA7.
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post #278 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

One thing to keep in mind is that a 1080p signal on component inputs won't come out the HDMI output.

But what case is there where a non-1080p input signal won't be output over HDMI?

The original Xbox 360.

Erik

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post #279 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

I assume you meant this post for bambam.

As a local a/v friend of mine pointed out today, the lack of processing for 1080p signals might be a good thing or at least not a bad thing.
Do you really want to mess about with a pristine 1080p/24fps video signal from some of the better blu-ray and hd-dvd players/discs....... probably not.
One look at Ratatouille Blu-ray makes me wonder how much better can it get
So I'm back on the 5308 bandwagon as of now

dc

From what I understand the Realta is capable of cleaning up even a 1080p signal if properly utilized. Now having said that, I'm just parroting back what I've read here and elsewhere; I don't understand the mechanics of how it does what it does or even what exactly it's doing. But the people posting sure seemed to know what they were talking about and if the Realta chip is really that good then for sure it'd be nice if the Denon took advantage of it.

Erik

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post #280 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 05:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erikk View Post

From what I understand the Realta is capable of cleaning up even a 1080p signal if properly utilized. Now having said that, I'm just parroting back what I've read here and elsewhere; I don't understand the mechanics of how it does what it does or even what exactly it's doing. But the people posting sure seemed to know what they were talking about and if the Realta chip is really that good then for sure it'd be nice if the Denon took advantage of it.

So why would Denon go to the expensive of using the new Realta sxT2 HQV chip in the 5308ci then not utilize it fully?
Doesn't make sense to me

dc

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post #281 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 06:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rudolpht View Post

If you check the manual there are specific examples where it says it will not upconvert.

I can't seem to find these examples for signals other than non-standard computer resolutions. Can you provide a page number?

Quote:
Originally Posted by erikk View Post

The original Xbox 360.

So the original Xbox 360 can output a non-1080p signal that the 5308ci won't convert to 1080p?

Dave
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post #282 of 4988 Old 12-22-2007, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

I can't seem to find these examples for signals other than non-standard computer resolutions. Can you provide a page number?


So the original Xbox 360 can output a non-1080p signal that the 5308ci won't convert to 1080p?

9, 25, 44. Sorry I can't cut & paste from the PDF, but Adobe Reader does allow a search on "the video function may not operate"

Tim
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post #283 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

I can't seem to find these examples for signals other than non-standard computer resolutions. Can you provide a page number?


So the original Xbox 360 can output a non-1080p signal that the 5308ci won't convert to 1080p?

The 360 doesn't have HDMI output, it only has component out. And the 5308 will not convert a 1080p component signal to 1080p HDMI. It should convert 1080i component to HDMI, but i haven't read the manual yet so i can't confirm.

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post #284 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 07:15 AM
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[QUOTE The 360 doesn't have HDMI output, it only has component out. QUOTE]

FWIW the 360 Elite version does have HDMI out.

Happy holidays to all!!!!!!!!!
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post #285 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 08:56 AM
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Well my contact for Denon gear says he'll have the 5308ci available first week of January
I'm not sure how many units he'll be able to get his hands on,
so I guess it's decision time for me.........

dc

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post #286 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlexBPM View Post

The 360 doesn't have HDMI output, it only has component out. And the 5308 will not convert a 1080p component signal to 1080p HDMI. It should convert 1080i component to HDMI, but i haven't read the manual yet so i can't confirm.

Actually...all new 360's have HDMI outputs now (the 360, Aracede and Elite versions)...
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post #287 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Actually...all new 360's have HDMI outputs now (the 360, Aracede and Elite versions)...

I'm tired of waiting. If the 5308ci hits the streets before the Denon pre-pro, I'm going with the receiver as my prepro and swapping out my 4806. Just got my Christmas present! The wife say's "ok. Enough already. Hire somebody to build your home theater in the basement." Looks like the 5308ci will be the center piece. Life is good.

JSJS
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post #288 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 10:00 AM
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Yes but without the built-in HD-DVD they SHOULD have had (at VERY least on the Elite) I can't justify buying a new 360. Anyway, back on thread, the original Xbox 360 can output 1080p on component.

Erik

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post #289 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

28.5kg
would have liked something like 35kg but anyway... a fine AV amp for sure it will be
too bad those remotes stink. the Onkyo is easier to use. imho.
still i'm of those guys who prefer to turn on the whole pro rack and adjust things (input, sound decoder) before the movie and then enjoy the movie and that's it.
premium silver as on the hifi products is very nice looking indeed.
if black was available in Europe , i would have loved to see a brushed back aluminium such as on the Toshiba X1 hd dvd player.

regarding power: imho it has enough with high sensitive speakers in a dedicated absorbant htheater (klipsch, gkf, jblpro)
but there's NO replacement for power amp such as NAD MASTER M25 for instance or the 955 or 975. or an ADA PTM 6150 THX
even with high sensitive speakers.


my AVCA1HD will be combinend with these already awaiting it

If I am not interested in upscalling images, would I be better off going with the 4308 and using for instance a NAD M25 than buying the 5308? I only run a 5.1 system and see that the NAD is a 7 channel - I guess that I would not need to run all 7 chanels. Forgive my innocence with power amps as I have never had anything but an all in one receiver but does the power amp (NAD M25 in this case) have to support new HD audio formats or does that not matter as the 4308 would decode them and then the NAD would just boost the power?

Cheers

Chris
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post #290 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 03:57 PM
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Looks like it's going to ship very soon, Denon's website has it posted up. I've been waiting since last March, I was getting this one but changed my mine when the new Pioneer Elite merged onto the scene. Good luck with the Denon.
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post #291 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 06:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post

Looks like it's going to ship very soon, Denon's website has it posted up. I've been waiting since last March, I was getting this one but changed my mine when the new Pioneer Elite merged onto the scene. Good luck with the Denon.

The new Pioneer Elite looks sweet!
Still... I'm going with the 5308ci... for now (at the price I can get it for it's hard to resist).
From the rumor mill,
Denon will be coming out with a 4808ci
and......... a 5808/9ci, maybe this summer?

dc

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post #292 of 4988 Old 12-23-2007, 07:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

From the rumor mill,
Denon will be coming out with a 4808ci
and......... a 5808/9ci, maybe this summer?

dc

Which mans what year exactly?

Tim
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post #293 of 4988 Old 12-25-2007, 11:50 AM
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This is great! Sounds like it should be shipping pretty soon here...

I love the 9.1 setup they show in the manual! (still allowing for Zone 2)...

Looks like swapping between my 1080p TV and 720p/1080i projector is going to be a pain in the ___ for 1080p sources like the 360 Elite tho...
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post #294 of 4988 Old 12-25-2007, 01:30 PM
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Hey guys, I have a quick novice question here... The amp area of the specs (p.109) in the manual states:

Front:
150W + 150W (8ohms)
Center:
150W (8ohms)
Surround (A + B):
150W + 150W (8ohms)
Surround Back:
150W + 150W (8ohms)

So if you're running 9 channels + 2 for Zone 2, what kind of power is each speaker going to see? (see the wiring diagram example on page 10 of the manual)...

Thanks in advance!
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post #295 of 4988 Old 12-25-2007, 06:45 PM
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It does not have 9 channels of built in amplification, it only has 7. You will not be able to run a 9.1 setup and also a set of zone 2 speakers with all of them running at the same time, unless you also add some external amps. The A+B power spec only means, that the two pairs of speakers when run as A+B at the same time, would also end up sharing the same power output. Start looking more at page 84 of the manual under "amp assign". Do not go by just by what you see on page 10, where it mainly only shows speaker connections.

BTW, Denon's calling it 9.1 is kind of bogus, when all it is really doing is doubling up on the L&R surrounds (A+B) that are also just sharing a common power output.
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post #296 of 4988 Old 12-25-2007, 09:05 PM
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Thanks for the clarification -- page 84 made more sense, and indeed the 9.1 seems bogus since it implies 9 full power, full range channels.

So this begs the question: let's say you have the same exact model of speaker you're using all around the back in "9.1" (for SL A+B, SR A+B, SB x 2) -- won't there be a noticeable difference between the channels in SL and SR running half power vs. the SB channels each piping 150W? I guess the levels will just need to be adjusted differently (the amp must just be running in parallel?)...
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post #297 of 4988 Old 12-26-2007, 02:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

It does not have 9 channels of built in amplification, it only has 7. You will not be able to run a 9.1 setup and also a set of zone 2 speakers with all of them running at the same time, unless you also add some external amps. The A+B power spec only means, that the two pairs of speakers when run as A+B at the same time, would also end up sharing the same power output. Start looking more at page 84 of the manual under "amp assign". Do not go by just by what you see on page 10, where it mainly only shows speaker connections.

BTW, Denon's calling it 9.1 is kind of bogus, when all it is really doing is doubling up on the L&R surrounds (A+B) that are also just sharing a common power output.

This might be a silly question but if I am running a 5.1 system then, am I likely to get more than 150w per channel?

Chris
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post #298 of 4988 Old 12-26-2007, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oscarlouis View Post

This might be a silly question but if I am running a 5.1 system then, am I likely to get more than 150w per channel?

Chris


Unless they are really underating their amp section on this AVR by about 30wpc, which I really doubt they are, as most times they tend to over rate them. Probably not, most recivers do not really put out their advertised rating with all 7 or even 5 channels driven all at once. Rough guess, is you maybe drop somewhere about 30-40wpc off the 150wpc rating if driving all 7 at once, and about 20-30 with 5 all at once. But even so, that would also mean that you should at least get more of your 150wpc that they claim, to actually use, running a 5.1 setup than you would a 7.1, but it would also not boost it to go over 150wpc when running as a 5.1 setup.
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post #299 of 4988 Old 12-26-2007, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnla View Post

Unless they are really underating their amp section on this AVR by about 30wpc, which I really doubt they are, as most times they tend to over rate them. Probably not, most recivers do not really put out their advertised rating with all 7 or even 5 channels driven all at once. Rough guess, is you maybe drop somewhere about 30-40wpc off the 150wpc rating if driving all 7 at once, and about 20-30 with 5 all at once. But even so, that would also mean that you should at least get more of your 150wpc that they claim, to actually use, running a 5.1 setup than you would a 7.1, but it would also not boost it to go over 150wpc when running as a 5.1 setup.

Unless you bi-amped your front LR speakers, in which case you could have 300 watts going to them (150 per speaker half). [Presuming you can configure it that way.] I run all 5 of my speakers this way from the 5805.
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post #300 of 4988 Old 12-26-2007, 08:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by prismic View Post

Thanks for the clarification -- page 84 made more sense, and indeed the 9.1 seems bogus since it implies 9 full power, full range channels.

So this begs the question: let's say you have the same exact model of speaker you're using all around the back in "9.1" (for SL A+B, SR A+B, SB x 2) -- won't there be a noticeable difference between the channels in SL and SR running half power vs. the SB channels each piping 150W? I guess the levels will just need to be adjusted differently (the amp must just be running in parallel?)...

Interesting,

I'm hoping the Audessey room correction would be smart enough to take the dual surrounds into account and set appropriately.

Tim
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