*Official* Denon 5308 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 10:49 AM
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This is not correct. I have the 4308. Never had the 5308. This is a typo on my part..... I hope

Tony

Quote:
Originally Posted by weatherby View Post

filcro1...I switched from a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver which is 200 watts and while I am not sure I can define the difference I like the 5308 much better. The sound is fantastic and the hdmi switching works perfectly. I have never had a handshake issue. I have only had it a week but so far I couldn't be happier with the 5308.

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post #722 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB View Post

I had a Lexicon MC1 and was using Logic7 for 5.1 -> 7.1 expansion. I was using two of the Carver AV-705x to drive the 7.1 setup. There is an absolute night and day difference between the 5308 and the MC1. It's as if this is the first time I've actually had surround sound in my theater. Sound is more enveloping, dialog is much more intelligible and bass is better controlled. I don't know whether to credit Audssey MultiEQ, DynamicEQ, Ultra2 / IIx or Denon. I'm just happier with my theater than I've ever been. Of course, I haven't yet installed the little video upgrade I recently ordered from Jason...

/jab

What upgrade?
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post #723 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 10:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tross View Post

Jab, How have you configured for Ultra II mode? All I've been able to use is the THX setting that is presented under Surround Mode - which is always THX home cinema mode?

What benefit does THX mode give us?
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post #724 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 11:29 AM
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Im loving this thing by the way...

Spent a whole day trying to set it up(had to call off work!). Im normally pretty good at this stuff, but this baby is complicated!

Theres nothing I can really say that others haven't but its worth every penny. I notice I can play at louder volumes, yet it doesn't feel like it(if that makes any sense).
I was using the 3806 and Auddyssey has certainly improved. On the 3806 I appreciated what Auddyssey was trying to do. Better seperation, more detailed... but it left a veil over the sound that I couldn't live with. Not on the 5308. Very nice improvement.

Still trying to figure out what THX cinema mode does???


Someone mentioned earlier about changing tone, but it would get reset after unit was turned off. There's tone defeat option you have to enable(or disable) if you want that.
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post #725 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 11:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

Proud new owner of a 5308...
Pick up tomorrow...

Someone please tell me how good it is again cause Im feeling a little guilty.

I am a little late here but shamus you will love your 5308. I went from the original 5805 to a McIntosh MX119/MC207 to the Denon 5805ci and now to the 5308ci and by far the 5308ci is the best from having the receiver do the decoding on the new audio codecs to the implementation and sound quality of Audyssey and Dynamic EQ.

Don't feel guilty just enjoy.
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post #726 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

Hi Dave,

Denon here just confirms that the Audyssey Room EQ function does not work when bi-amp is enabled.

They said this will be fixed in later firmware releases, but no specific dates.

Albert

I would think this would only apply to bi-amping internally with the 5308. If an external amp is used, Audyssey Room EQ should still work.

I will be using the 5308 for the tweeters and a Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 for the woofers.

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post #727 of 4994 Old 03-07-2008, 11:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VTGOLFER View Post

I am a little late here but shamus you will love your 5308. I went from the original 5805 to a McIntosh MX119/MC207 to the Denon 5805ci and now to the 5308ci and by far the 5308ci is the best from having the receiver do the decoding on the new audio codecs to the implementation and sound quality of Audyssey and Dynamic EQ.

Don't feel guilty just enjoy.

Thanks! Im definitely enjoying it!
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post #728 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 02:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CadmanDigital4U View Post

I would think this would only apply to bi-amping internally with the 5308. If an external amp is used, Audyssey Room EQ should still work.

I will be using the 5308 for the tweeters and a Earthquake Cinenova Grande 7 for the woofers.

Yes, the bi-amp bug only applies to using the bi-amp function internally with the 5308.
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post #729 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

What upgrade?

VPL-VW200

/jab
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post #730 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

Yes, the bi-amp bug only applies to using the bi-amp function internally with the 5308.

That's fantastic news! I was a bit worried about that.

My dealer says my 5308 will arrive between March 15th and 20th.

I also ordered the Denon DVD-2500BTCI Bluray transport which will arrive at the same time.

I can't frackin' wait to fire this system up! I've been sitting here looking at a pair of Gothams, a bunch of new Klipsch speakers and a new amp for about three months.

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post #731 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus View Post

What benefit does THX mode give us?

See pages 92-93 of Owner's Manual. There's more information than I can copy and post here, and it's explained better in the Owner's Manual than I can explain it.

I will say that getting all of the settings right on this thing takes some patience. The source specific audio settings means that I'm checking the audio settings more often than I'd like, as I begin using the 5308. Once they are all correct, it will be fire and forget. If anyone else finds this a bit frustrtating, I'll not that source specific audio settings can be disabled. Denon really thought of everything with this beast.

/jab
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post #732 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuro View Post

Yes, the bi-amp bug only applies to using the bi-amp function internally with the 5308.

This is strange Kuro. I see all the audessey options under room EQ and I'm bi-amping internally. I don't know what the difference is between your setup and mine, but I do see all the options. Did you change ANYTHING after you ran audyssey - that might be the problem as I ran into an issue with bass management when I switched my LFE-MIX to LFE-L/R and then back (I had to run Audyssey again as the LFE levels were lost).
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post #733 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tross View Post

This is strange Kuro. I see all the audessey options under room EQ and I'm bi-amping internally.

I think the issue is that Kuro doesn't have a 5308, he has an A1HD, but is making statements about what the 5308 can and can't do. The two units are very similar but not identical.

Tross, which one do you have? My 5308 can definitely run Audyssey while set to bi-amp mode.

Dave
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post #734 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 10:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

I think the issue is that Kuro doesn't have a 5308, he has an A1HD, but is making statements about what the 5308 can and can't do. The two units are very similar but not identical.

Tross, which one do you have? My 5308 can definitely run Audyssey while set to bi-amp mode.

I do have a 5308... and am loving it...

Thanks Dem - that explains it. Looks like this is NOT a problem on the 5308.
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post #735 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 11:13 AM
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When I tested AVRs, I compared Sony, Onkyo/Integra, and Denon (I already have Pioneer and have owned Yamaha and didn't want to go with either of them). I read about problems regarding lip sync issues on the Integra/Onkyo so I made sure I compared audio delay on the two units. I found that the Onkyo 905 had the worst delay - it was very noticeable when comparing the sound delay on 2 HT systems at the same time. The Denon 4308 had no delay.

So now I've upgraded to my 5308 and I'm loving it. So don't get me wrong when I say this (I still love the 5308) - there is a slight delay on the 5308 when compared to the 4308. This surprises me since it has 2 processors on board vs the 4308s single processor. However, there is a slight delay. The delay is not as bad as the 905, but its there.

In addition, there is a slightly more noticeable delay on video when upscaling. We play guitar hero on a 360. The 360 is connected via component on the 5308 and when I have ip scaling on, the delay is enough to mess with all the players. When ip scaling is off, people can play like they normally would. I know that I can set an audio delay, but the difference between a game at 1080i and 1080p is hardly noticeable - so I just turned off the ip scaling.

Any others experience delays on their 5308?

If anyone is considering a purchase of the 5308, don't let this stop you. There are no problems with lip sync at all (not even with the max processing of audio = THX + Audyssey + Dynamic EQ). So don't let this stop you. But know that you may need to set a delay on the audio when playing guitar hero. If you have HDMI on your 360 this won't be an issue.

Anyone know of a good test for video to audio timing?
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post #736 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 12:21 PM
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tross,

Can you elaborate on the lip sync? After reading your post I'm confused. You mention a "delay" exists, then indicate "lip sync" is not a problem. Are you saying there is a delay, but it can be properly adjusted out with the lip sync?

Thanks!

Jim
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post #737 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JlgLaw View Post

tross,

Can you elaborate on the lip sync? After reading your post I'm confused. You mention a "delay" exists, then indicate "lip sync" is not a problem. Are you saying there is a delay, but it can be properly adjusted out with the lip sync?

Thanks!

Jim

There is only a slight audio delay. I only notice it when I have my other HT playing the same source (same cable channel on the exact same HD cable box in real-time) and I walk between the rooms. It is very slight - sounds like an echo. It is not something that you will notice if you don't have 2 systems running side by side. In fact, the Onkyo (that had a severe delay) still wasn't enough to create a lip sync issue - although some have complained about the Onkyo - meaning they had more delay on the Onkyo than I experienced.

While I don't have the equipment to determine the actual delay, I'd estimate that I'm hearing ~50ms difference between my HTs on the 5308. I'm sure someone has studied this and can give an educated response as to when the delay can cause lip sync issues - its probably when the delay is >300ms (I haven't researched this, but am familiar audio latency/delay in general - networking experience).

So the audio delay is very slight and not something to be concerned about. It IS also possible the the processing of the cable box connected to the 5308 is the cause - which is a real possibility as I can not hear a delay when listening to the radio on both HTs.

The video delay (when upscaling analog to digital), however, was something that impacted me. The good thing with the video being delayed is that you can compensate by delaying the audio on purpose. So you can match them by setting an audio delay.

I don't want to alarm anyone - there is no lip sync issue whatsoever. Its just a slight delay and thought it would be a good thing to post it to get others opinions.
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post #738 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 01:04 PM
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Just a little info...
Do not use Direct mode for movie watching unless you are using full range speakers.
Bass management is disabled for surround channels.
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post #739 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tross View Post

We play guitar hero on a 360. The 360 is connected via component on the 5308 and when I have ip scaling on, the delay is enough to mess with all the players.

On Guitar Hero III on the PS3 there's an option to run a test that compensates for audio and video delay. I needed to use it when I first got the 5308. See if you have it on the 360.

Dave
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post #740 of 4994 Old 03-08-2008, 04:24 PM
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tross,

Thanks for the clarification.

Jim
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post #741 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 12:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dem View Post

On Guitar Hero III on the PS3 there's an option to run a test that compensates for audio and video delay. I needed to use it when I first got the 5308. See if you have it on the 360.

Yep - I have it on the 360 version as well. It fixes the issue - kinda. It lets me strum with the music and accepts the strums, but the dots don't explode in the same place that they normally do - so the video is still running at its normal pace even though your strum timing works. I just decided not to upscale the 360. Thanks for pointing me to that option in the game.
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post #742 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 09:10 AM
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Audio delay that doesn't create lip-sync is expected behavior from any advanced receiver or pre-processor. This delay will become larger when advanced video processing is enabled. Essentially, the processor must "record" and "watch" the video for a few milliseconds to determine how to correctly process it, to process it, and then "play" it on the video output. This additional delay should be automatically added to the audio to compensate. Where the automatic compensation is not sufficient, the processor provides an option for further delaying the audio manually.

The problem with the Onkyos is that it seems there is a lip-sync issue where the audio is delayed more than the video, a problem that cannot be adjusted using the controls. Whether this is because of a firmware bug or because of excessive audio processing requirements, I don't think is known.

You can create audio delay problems by not routing audio and video through the same processor(s). For example, by running video directly to a display device or through a different path (e.g., a separate video processor). Some people with Onkyos clearly encountered this problem, which is arguably of their own making (not to minimize the apparently legitimate problems with the Onykos).

You can also experience an audio/video delay issue when playing games that require split-second hand-eye-ear coordination. Some video processors have processing modes specifically designed to sacrifice some processing quality for speed to minimize this issue. The Denons do not have such a mode. The correct solution in these cases is to disable video processing, as dem mentioned.

As far as I can perceive, the Denon 5308 has no lip-sync issues.

/jab
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post #743 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 09:19 AM
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Has anyone found that they needed to recallibrate their video display after installing the 5308 and routing video through it? At times, I can't shake the feeling that the black level has been raised, but no amount of fiddling with settings to date (including turning off video processing) changes anything materially. The feeling is strongest when watching DVD (480i), HD-DVD (both through A35) or BluRay (BD30). Strangely, 720p or 1080i broadcast (TiVo S3) never give me that feeling.

Previously, I ran all video through a Crystallio II, but I removed it from the chain when installing the 5308. Also, the A35 and BD30 are both new and were installed at the same time as the 5308.

Maybe it's all in my head.

/jab
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post #744 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aloha Steve View Post

Just wondering if anyone has had a real chance to
A/B the Yamaha RX-Z11 and this new Denon?
Since the Yamaha has a 5 yr warr, 11.2 channels, and costs less, I would really like to know which is the better performer.

In Norway the Z11 cost 1900 USD more than the Denon AVR-5308 (AVC-A1HD).

I picked up my AVC-A1HD yesterday. Watched Die Hard 4.0 on Blu-ray with DTS-HD MA today.
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post #745 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 11:05 AM
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hi,

My Denon 5308ci has regular connection problems when connecting up to my sony KDL-52XBR5 hdtv (i will be using any one of the 3 devices that connect into the amp (1 - DTV H20 HD receiver / 2 -Denon 1930ci DVD player / 3 - Sony ps3), and the amp will just "drop" the signal for 2-5 seconds. it also "clicks" when it does this several times, and then comes back.

i've already updated the firmware in the hopes that this would fix it, but it hasn't made any noticeable difference.

i saw one other person had a similiar issue, but have not seen any solutions yet.

HELP!!
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post #746 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drick View Post

hi,

My Denon 5308ci has regular connection problems when connecting up to my sony KDL-52XBR5 hdtv (i will be using any one of the 3 devices that connect into the amp (1 - DTV H20 HD receiver / 2 -Denon 1930ci DVD player / 3 - Sony ps3), and the amp will just "drop" the signal for 2-5 seconds. it also "clicks" when it does this several times, and then comes back.

i've already updated the firmware in the hopes that this would fix it, but it hasn't made any noticeable difference.

i saw one other person had a similiar issue, but have not seen any solutions yet.

HELP!!

Drick - I responded to you a long time ago thinking that I had a similar problem. I asked for more details regarding your issue. Now that I know the details, my issue was very different. My issue was a flicker from light to dark or vise versa. My problem was solved by upgrading my HDMI cables. I'm responding here cause I am probably the "other person" you mentioned - and my problem was very different and is now resolved. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't have any problems with video drops at all.

Please let us know what you find - if swapping the unit is necessary or if you find some other fix.
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post #747 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tross View Post

Drick - I responded to you a long time ago thinking that I had a similar problem. I asked for more details regarding your issue. Now that I know the details, my issue was very different. My issue was a flicker from light to dark or vise versa. My problem was solved by upgrading my HDMI cables. I'm responding here cause I am probably the "other person" you mentioned - and my problem was very different and is now resolved. As I mentioned in the other thread, I don't have any problems with video drops at all.

Please let us know what you find - if swapping the unit is necessary or if you find some other fix.

tross, thanks for jogging my memory i couldn't find that other post!

when you say you upgraded your cables, can you expand on that? in theory, i've already massively over spent on HDMI cables, and these are a step down from the top of the line (at least from Monster).
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post #748 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drick View Post

tross, thanks for jogging my memory i couldn't find that other post!

when you say you upgraded your cables, can you expand on that? in theory, i've already massively over spent on HDMI cables, and these are a step down from the top of the line (at least from Monster).

My original HDMI cables were purchased 2 years ago - before 1.3a spec was around - so I upgraded to 1.3a cat certified cables from monoprice. And it made a difference.
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post #749 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JAB View Post

Has anyone found that they needed to recallibrate their video display after installing the 5308 and routing video through it? At times, I can't shake the feeling that the black level has been raised, but no amount of fiddling with settings to date (including turning off video processing) changes anything materially. The feeling is strongest when watching DVD (480i), HD-DVD (both through A35) or BluRay (BD30). Strangely, 720p or 1080i broadcast (TiVo S3) never give me that feeling.

Previously, I ran all video through a Crystallio II, but I removed it from the chain when installing the 5308. Also, the A35 and BD30 are both new and were installed at the same time as the 5308.

Maybe it's all in my head.

/jab

Funny you should say that. I watched Cars last night on BD and thought it looked a little bright. Ran DVE and everything was spot on. I've never seen Cars before so I can't be sure. I'll check ones I've watched soon.
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post #750 of 4994 Old 03-09-2008, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tross View Post

My original HDMI cables were purchased 2 years ago - before 1.3a spec was around - so I upgraded to 1.3a cat certified cables from monoprice. And it made a difference.

Also beware of limitations wrt HDMI cable length, in case you're pushing that.
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