Harman Kardon AVR 247 & 347 discussion thread. - Page 22 - AVS Forum

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Megalith's Avatar Megalith
03:04 PM Liked: 13
post #631 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 2,659
Joined: Oct 2003
Does anyone know anything about the AVR-645? I've noticed that many of you have swapped out -47 units for the -45 series (645/745). I assume that they are far less buggy and have less inconveniences? I know that the -45 series can bypass the deinterlacing, but what other advantages are there?

I simply want MPCM over HDMI, and refuse to buy a Denon/Onkyo/Pioneer/Yamaha.
dallow's Avatar dallow
03:24 PM Liked: 19
post #632 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 555
Joined: Nov 2006
Best price for the 247 that I've found is Amazon at $351, especially if you're a Prime member.
Anyone know of a better deal?
Travis M's Avatar Travis M
03:28 PM Liked: 10
post #633 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 405
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post

Does anyone know anything about the AVR-645? I've noticed that many of you have swapped out -47 units for the -45 series (645/745). I assume that they are far less buggy and have less inconveniences? I know that the -45 series can bypass the deinterlacing, but what other advantages are there?

I simply want MPCM over HDMI, and refuse to buy a Denon/Onkyo/Pioneer/Yamaha.

I think only 1 person has switched out and that was Bommai. He should be here shortly to answer your question.

Just out of curiosity, why do you refuse to buy any of the above?
Megalith's Avatar Megalith
03:34 PM Liked: 13
post #634 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 2,659
Joined: Oct 2003
I only trust the H/K sound.

Although it is admittedly foolish, since I haven't heard any of the newer receivers from those companies. But almost everyone seems to prefer the sound of an H/K unit.
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
04:14 PM Liked: 10
post #635 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
Ok today I hooked up my 247 with my PS3 and Cable box running HDMI for both audio and video through the 247. The cable box ran fine except for the video on standard def channels would not let me change the aspect ratio to "stretch picture." It stayed 4:3 with the black bars on the side. When I changed it to stretch the picture, it turned my screen green and I had to reset my cable box.

The next (and bigger issue) is that I ran hdmi to my 247 with my PS3. It said on the front of the 247, "MULT CH PCM" or something to that affect. But when I played music from my PS3 it only came out stereo and would not let me change it to Logic 7 or anything. I went into the OSD and it said the Surround Mode was set to "Stereo" I could hit the set button and it would have arrows on both sides but would not let me change it at all. It would play a blu-ray on all channels but my music and movies on my PS3 hardrive were all stereo. I now have hooked up my optical cable back up and am running that to the reciever. I called HK Tech support and he was a big ******* and didn't answer my question. I need advice. I think the HDMI would be better than the optical if I could get it to come in at all channels.

Any response would be nice. I post a lot on this site but none of questions get answered. PLEASE I NEED ADVISE.
CWC77's Avatar CWC77
04:40 PM Liked: 10
post #636 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 17
Joined: Aug 2007
Finally got my HK 247 and I love it. I have a 5.1 setup and a PS3 and it's killer. HK sound is just unbeatable. I had the yamaha v661 and it's terrible compared to HK sound. So glad I got the 247. 1080p at 60 fps works great for me - no issues. 24 fps doesn't work, but hopefully the upcoming firmware fixes that. Now if they could just fix the LFE stuff with PCM I'd be SOOOO happy!

All in all, I love this receiver. Especially at Amazon's price!
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
05:20 PM Liked: 10
post #637 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweendog101 View Post

Ok today I hooked up my 247 with my PS3 and Cable box running HDMI for both audio and video through the 247. The cable box ran fine except for the video on standard def channels would not let me change the aspect ratio to "stretch picture." It stayed 4:3 with the black bars on the side. When I changed it to stretch the picture, it turned my screen green and I had to reset my cable box.

The next (and bigger issue) is that I ran hdmi to my 247 with my PS3. It said on the front of the 247, "MULT CH PCM" or something to that affect. But when I played music from my PS3 it only came out stereo and would not let me change it to Logic 7 or anything. I went into the OSD and it said the Surround Mode was set to "Stereo" I could hit the set button and it would have arrows on both sides but would not let me change it at all. It would play a blu-ray on all channels but my music and movies on my PS3 hardrive were all stereo. I now have hooked up my optical cable back up and am running that to the reciever. I called HK Tech support and he was a big ******* and didn't answer my question. I need advice. I think the HDMI would be better than the optical if I could get it to come in at all channels.

Any response would be nice. I post a lot on this site but none of questions get answered. PLEASE I NEED ADVISE.



To answer my own question. I just called HK again. They told me this is a known issue and will have a firmware update in a few weeks to the LPCM issue.
eightninesuited's Avatar eightninesuited
05:39 PM Liked: 10
post #638 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 4,693
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweendog101 View Post

Ok today I hooked up my 247 with my PS3 and Cable box running HDMI for both audio and video through the 247. The cable box ran fine except for the video on standard def channels would not let me change the aspect ratio to "stretch picture." It stayed 4:3 with the black bars on the side. When I changed it to stretch the picture, it turned my screen green and I had to reset my cable box.

The next (and bigger issue) is that I ran hdmi to my 247 with my PS3. It said on the front of the 247, "MULT CH PCM" or something to that affect. But when I played music from my PS3 it only came out stereo and would not let me change it to Logic 7 or anything. I went into the OSD and it said the Surround Mode was set to "Stereo" I could hit the set button and it would have arrows on both sides but would not let me change it at all. It would play a blu-ray on all channels but my music and movies on my PS3 hardrive were all stereo. I now have hooked up my optical cable back up and am running that to the reciever. I called HK Tech support and he was a big ******* and didn't answer my question. I need advice. I think the HDMI would be better than the optical if I could get it to come in at all channels.

Any response would be nice. I post a lot on this site but none of questions get answered. PLEASE I NEED ADVISE.

If you look at my back posts, I complained about this same issue. I could not get 5.1 or 7.1 from cds with my PS3 via HDMI. Which was really a shame since the PS3 is an amazing CD player.

Honestly, I'm getting sick of HK and their promises of firmware updates. The new Denons have been out maybe a month and there's already a firmware update out that takes care of some issues - which are far less serious than what the 247 and 347 have. It shows commitment from the manufacturer. These damn machines were out in April and here we are in October and not a single thing so far.
neo22's Avatar neo22
05:55 PM Liked: 10
post #639 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 211
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWC77 View Post

Finally got my HK 247 and I love it. I have a 5.1 setup and a PS3 and it's killer. HK sound is just unbeatable. I had the yamaha v661 and it's terrible compared to HK sound. So glad I got the 247. 1080p at 60 fps works great for me - no issues. 24 fps doesn't work, but hopefully the upcoming firmware fixes that. Now if they could just fix the LFE stuff with PCM I'd be SOOOO happy!

All in all, I love this receiver. Especially at Amazon's price!

What speakers are you running? Amazon doesn't have the price anymore.
BAMAVADER's Avatar BAMAVADER
06:56 PM Liked: 13
post #640 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 885
Joined: Aug 2004
Does the 247/347 allow you to apply +10 db to the HDMI input(s)? I currently have the HK 240 and add +10 db to my multichannel input for SACD/DVD audio. I bought a 347 back in April but had the popping in the speakers so I replaced it with the Denon 987 which has been spectacular. I was thinking about upgrading my 240 with another 247 or 347 for the HDMI audio on my Sony S-1. Also to HK 745 owners, how do you apply the firmware to this receiver?

thanks for any help.


CWC77's Avatar CWC77
07:49 PM Liked: 10
post #641 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 17
Joined: Aug 2007
351 at Amazon? Price is the same and IMHO a great deal.

Got some old boston acoustics fronts, old harman kardon center, klipsch sub, and junk rears. Really old speakers but I can clearly tell the difference in SQ between the v661 anad the HK 247.
neo22's Avatar neo22
08:35 PM Liked: 10
post #642 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 211
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by CWC77 View Post

351 at Amazon? Price is the same and IMHO a great deal.

Got some old boston acoustics fronts, old harman kardon center, klipsch sub, and junk rears. Really old speakers but I can clearly tell the difference in SQ between the v661 anad the HK 247.

Says 499
NCStateFan's Avatar NCStateFan
08:57 PM Liked: 10
post #643 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 29
Joined: Dec 2005
The 247 is still on special at OC (not quite as good as Amazon had it).

However, the 347 is on special at Amazon for cheaper than the regular price of 247. Something like $488 out the door (taxes & shipping).
neo22's Avatar neo22
10:10 PM Liked: 10
post #644 of 5258
10-01-2007 | Posts: 211
Joined: Nov 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCStateFan View Post

The 247 is still on special at OC (not quite as good as Amazon had it).

However, the 347 is on special at Amazon for cheaper than the regular price of 247. Something like $488 out the door (taxes & shipping).

Oc?
bommai's Avatar bommai
12:59 AM Liked: 19
post #645 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 4,518
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by BAMAVADER View Post

Does the 247/347 allow you to apply +10 db to the HDMI input(s)? I currently have the HK 240 and add +10 db to my multichannel input for SACD/DVD audio. I bought a 347 back in April but had the popping in the speakers so I replaced it with the Denon 987 which has been spectacular. I was thinking about upgrading my 240 with another 247 or 347 for the HDMI audio on my Sony S-1. Also to HK 745 owners, how do you apply the firmware to this receiver?

thanks for any help.

<><

The 645 and 745 have USB ports. The firmware file is zipped. Once you unzip it on a windows based machine, you get a loader software and the actual file you need to upload. Follow the instructions to the letter and you will be fine.
vm7118's Avatar vm7118
02:55 AM Liked: 10
post #646 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 65
Joined: Sep 2007
bommai, after spending days and days fretting over purchasing an onkyo 605 in order to get useless 1.3a, or to get a 247 for the amazing sound but suffer with an even ******** end product of analog to HDMI upconversion than the 605 (if it is possible), i went your route and got the 745 from harman audio (ebay store). they had it listed for 899 buy it now or best offer, and i best offered them 700 thinking it would be rejected towards the end of the 48-hour seller reply time, but it was accepted INSTANTLY! i literally navigated from the confirm offer screen on ebay to my email, and there was the acceptance message.

anyway, im the proud new owner of a 745 and i hope i like it as much as you seem to. i figure, instead of upconverting to 720p in a 247 then having a tv scale it to 1080i/p, why not just spring for the 745 where it will output 1080i, and i will leave it at 1080i, or if i feel the need i can just disable the faroudja processing? anyway, seems like a setup that gives me a nice compromise between audio (hk), video (1080i), and features (hdmi 1.1?, usb, plenty of inputs/power).

a question, however: what is the deal with the firmware updates that everyone has been talking about for so long now? what issues will they be addressing? any timeframe?
baumer's Avatar baumer
06:31 AM Liked: 10
post #647 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 134
Joined: Apr 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

If you look at my back posts, I complained about this same issue. I could not get 5.1 or 7.1 from cds with my PS3 via HDMI. Which was really a shame since the PS3 is an amazing CD player.

Honestly, I'm getting sick of HK and their promises of firmware updates. The new Denons have been out maybe a month and there's already a firmware update out that takes care of some issues - which are far less serious than what the 247 and 347 have. It shows commitment from the manufacturer. These damn machines were out in April and here we are in October and not a single thing so far.

I agree with your assessment on the firmware updates. I'm looking to upgrade a couple items but don't know if my 247 will work properly with them. I'm getting ready to sell it off soon if we don't hear from H/K in the very near future.

I play CD's through my Oppo 981 and can use Logic 7 for them. Granted my set-up is only 2.1 but is the problem with the PS3? (this may have been stated, but i'm too lazy too go back and search this thread for it).

Doug
NCStateFan's Avatar NCStateFan
07:27 AM Liked: 10
post #648 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 29
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by neo22 View Post

Oc?

1 Call
bommai's Avatar bommai
09:54 AM Liked: 19
post #649 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 4,518
Joined: Jan 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megalith View Post

Does anyone know anything about the AVR-645? I've noticed that many of you have swapped out -47 units for the -45 series (645/745). I assume that they are far less buggy and have less inconveniences? I know that the -45 series can bypass the deinterlacing, but what other advantages are there?

I simply want MPCM over HDMI, and refuse to buy a Denon/Onkyo/Pioneer/Yamaha.

Here are the models (as far as I know)

145 -> 146
147
245 -> 247
345 -> 347
445 -> ??
645 -> ??
745 -> ??

The x45 models are from last year. The 146 and x47 models are from earlier this year.

Of the last year's models, only 645 and 745 had audio processing through HDMI.

This year's model - 247 and 347 have HDMI audio processing.

So, your only choices right now for HDMI audio processing are 247, 347, 645 or 745

Successors to 445, 645 and 745 have not been released. I don't know when they will be released and what features they will have but I would assume that they would be good upgrades.

The 247 and 347 are very close in features except for a little bit more power in the 347. So, I am going to treat them as one unit and refer to it as 247.

All HKs have great sound so I am not going to list that as a pro. It is assumed.

247 Pros -> Newer. Low priced. Better HDMI compatibility through Simplay. 1080p60 pass through with 1080p24 pending (according to Travis). 24bit/192kHz 5.1 channel PCM support with 7.1 PCM pending. OSD through HDMI. Complete configurability through OSD.

247 Cons -> Non defeatable 720p scaling/image processing of 480i/p and 720p video sources, 10 dB LFE bug. A relatively flimpsy confusing to use remote (personal opinion). No Logic7/IIx processing of 5.1 PCM sound.

645 Pros -> More power than 247/347. USB port for music (USB audio standard) and firmware upgrading, no HDMI video processing (only pass through). Better remote. Logic7/IIx processing of all sound formats including 5.1 PCM. Online deals are pretty good. eBay refurbs are pretty good too (from factory with full warranty). Better EzSet/EQ than the 247/347.

645 cons -> I had HDMI video issues with my PS3 (purple splotches) - if you switch video sources on the receiver it gets rid of it - but it is an inconvenience. Only 1080i pass through. No 1080p60 or 1080p24 support. 96kHz/24 bit 5.1 PCM only. No 192kHz for 5.1 PCM. No 7.1 PCM at all.

745 Pros -> More power than even the 645. USB port for music (USB audio standard) and firmware upgrading. Faroudja HDMI processing with full control. You can turn it off completely (no transcoding of analog sources to HDMI), have just transcoding of analog sources to HDMI (native resolution), or full Faroudja processing (transcodes as well as upscales) with final resolution settable to 720p or 1080i. 2 sub woofer pre-outs for a 7.2 system. Even better EzSet/EQ than 645 with near field and far field measurements for all speakers. Full Logic 7/IIx processing for all sound formats. TC30 (Harmony clone) remote with full customization through Harmony software - with color LCD. Gold plated connectors in the back. Expensive when new - but have found great deals on eBay refurbs with full factory warranty.

745 Cons -> Purple splotches from 645 affect 745 too - but if you engage Faroudja video processing (I have mine set at 1080i), no purple splotches at all. Works like a champ. 1080i limitation just like the 645. No 192kHz/24 bit for 5.1 channel PCM. No 7.1 channel PCM support at all.

I tried the 247 and loved the sound. I returned it just because of the 10dB issue and the non defeatable 720p scaling. My 1080i TV was going nuts when sending 480p video through the receiver. At that time the PS3 was my only DVD player and it did not upconvert SD-DVDs. This was a big deal for me then - but not so much now. But the 10dB boost is still an issue today. I got the 247 for $450 from Best Buy and returned it after 3 weeks.

I tried the 645 and liked it, but the purple splotches were ruining the experience for me. I got this from amazon for $695 free shipping. I returned it after 3 weeks.

I got a refurb 745 from eBay (from seller harmanaudio - factory direct) - For $775 + $35 shipping. I still have the 745 and love it - and plan on keeping it for a few years. My TV is a 1080p native but with 1080i through HDMI (JVC HD-ILA). I have PS3 and my iMac connected to the two HDMI inputs. The PS3 is my SD-DVD and Bluray player. I also play SACDs and CDs with it.

My iMac is my DVR. I have a HDHomeRun Dual tuner module in my network. I have an optical cable from my iMac to the 745 also. The imac is my network music player, DVR'd TV watching and other streaming video watching source.

Everything is controlled using the TC30 remote.
dallow's Avatar dallow
10:10 AM Liked: 19
post #650 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 555
Joined: Nov 2006
Wow, that really sucks.
They upped the price on Amazon to $499.

That's ridiculous because now they have the 247 for $499, and the 347 for $489.

http://www.amazon.com/Harman-AVR-347...1341287&sr=8-2
Travis M's Avatar Travis M
11:13 AM Liked: 10
post #651 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 405
Joined: Dec 2005
Wow Bommai, you really have it down pat. That's a lot of great info. Cheers for taking the time to write it all down.

FYI,

I have heard from HK that the new series of recievers won't be out until next year.
Cage123's Avatar Cage123
12:19 PM Liked: 10
post #652 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 137
Joined: May 2007
Is there a work around for the "10 dB LFE bug"? I don't really understand what's the problem I should be having...
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
12:20 PM Liked: 10
post #653 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
In my earlier post I said that HK tech support told me that the firmware update would be out in about 2 weeks. I called back today and a different guy told me that it won't be out for 1-2 months. I don't know which guy is wrong. All I want is Logic 7 overlay on 5.1 PCM.
eightninesuited's Avatar eightninesuited
12:21 PM Liked: 10
post #654 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 4,693
Joined: Jun 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweendog101 View Post

In my earlier post I said that HK tech support told me that the firmware update would be out in about 2 weeks. I called back today and a different guy told me that it won't be out for 1-2 months. I don't know which guy is wrong. All I want is Logic 7 overlay on 5.1 PCM.

Did he specifically say that Logic 7 overlay is included in the firmware?
Travis M's Avatar Travis M
12:29 PM Liked: 10
post #655 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 405
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by eightninesuited View Post

Did he specifically say that Logic 7 overlay is included in the firmware?

It's not.
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
12:54 PM Liked: 10
post #656 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
All I want is my CD's or music on my PS3 to come in 5.1 MULTI CH PCM instead of stereo. The guy told me that this issue is included in the firmware update.
Cage123's Avatar Cage123
01:16 PM Liked: 10
post #657 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 137
Joined: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage123 View Post

Is there a work around for the "10 dB LFE bug"? I don't really understand what's the problem I should be having...

bump
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
01:20 PM Liked: 10
post #658 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweendog101 View Post

All I want is my CD's or music on my PS3 to come in 5.1 MULTI CH PCM instead of stereo. The guy told me that this issue is included in the firmware update.

Correction it says MULTI CH PCM on the reciver but is only playing through my speakers as stereo.
Travis M's Avatar Travis M
01:24 PM Liked: 10
post #659 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 405
Joined: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cage123 View Post

bump

This has been answered several times in this thread already.

It won't completely fix it, but it does make it quite bettter. Matter of fact, I think someone gave thier work around a page or so back. Try http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...&postcount=612
sweendog101's Avatar sweendog101
01:32 PM Liked: 10
post #660 of 5258
10-02-2007 | Posts: 35
Joined: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweendog101 View Post

Correction it says MULTI CH PCM on the reciver but is only playing through my speakers as stereo.

Travis M, it seems that you know a lot about this topic. Will this be covered in the firmware update.

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