"The" Onkyo TX-SR875 Thread - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eulogytool View Post

I got my 875 on Wednesday. It seems to be working fine, and it does sound great.

That review was like a blob of nothingness.... like a turd that doesn't stink... nondescript really....
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post #722 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 12:06 AM
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OK so I've had my 875 for a few days now. I'm definately no expert, but this thing is pretty incredible. I do have one issue. My SD programs are all getting stretched to fit my screen.(JVC HD61FH97) My STB(moto DCT3416 I) is set to 1080i for HD and 480i for SD. I have tried setting the SD to 1080i, it remains in 4:3(black bars, no stretching) but the pq is nowhere near as good. I don't know if I'm missing something here, as Joerod and others have said they prefer this setting, but I prefer the pq when the STB does not touch the picture. I just really don't like the stretched picture. My SD DVD's look amazing, even through composite.(old xbox not 360) I am fairly new to all this so any insight would be greatly appreciated.
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post #723 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 12:09 AM
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Oh yeah I almost forgot. I get this stretching on both auto and 1080p settings in the 875. My display is a native 1080p.

Just tried component from stb to 875. same scenario as above.(I use HDMI normally)
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post #724 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 12:30 AM
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I have not ordered an 875 due to this issue: My panny 50 inch plasma that is a 768p. For those of you that have '720p' hdtv resolutions, please tell me if the tv upscales REON's 720p output. i.e. SD Rec -> 1080i, goes to 875's REON for deinterlacing to 720p, goes to panny plasma whose video processor will upscale it to 768p?

Is this correct? If so, what's the point of having a REON in the 875 for us '720p' users whose resolution is truly 1020 x 768p.

Will somebody explain to me.. I really want to buy the 875 for the upscaling of the REON for SD channels because they look like crap otherwise
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post #725 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 05:15 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

No, turn native off and only select 1080i out. I am saying Ken, the Sony ruby accepting a 1080i signal looks pretty good turning it into 1080p. The crystalio II with 1080i looks better deinterlacing to 1080p then the Ruby does. Then finally the HQV REON chip looks about the same (if not then the same) as the gennum chip in the crystalio II. They are both a little better than the Ruby which is what I would expect. Motion adaptive deinterlacing looks better when done correctly. Also, I was using component tonite and the results are still very good. In fact, those who do not have HDMI won't miss it unless they see it somewhere else. If you have a pj or display with only component then the 875 will be a good match. You will still get a very good picture with great sound!

Thanks Joe! Absolutely, if I wind up with the 875/905, I'll unquestionably use the STB as I do now, 1080i only. Like you I just can't stand that resynching and time lag.
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post #726 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Tallen234 View Post

Why is that? Don't you want to eliminate one level of processing and let the Reon work with the most untouched signal? Or will the Reon perform better with the 1080i signal from the HR20?

I know Joe is doing that to eliminate the time lag in changing channels. I do the same thing with my STB since the lag time drives me nuts. But I did notice he said he got better PQ by letting the STB do the 1080i upconvert and then the Reon do the 1080i>1080p....that surprises me. I would certainly think the Reon would do better in this area.
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post #727 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 05:22 AM
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joerod,

Do you see the SR875 as a viable alternative as a preamp given the audio decoding(looking for HD formats), HDMI switching?

Any way to switch off the amplifier section?

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post #728 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:15 AM
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I definitely see it as a great alternative. I know it is hard to believe but I compared both last nite for a long time. And I still prefer going 1080i in for all channels. You can't get chicken salad out of chicken $h t. I will say some channels look better than others. I was all over the DirecTV guide testing. Mtv, you can't tell a difference. Others are so close most will not tell. I had my neighbors over and used them as guinee pigs. On almost every SD channel they could not see a difference when either sending in 480i or 1080i. I understand everyones concerns because just 2 years ago this was a BIG deal even for me. I also deinterlaced 480i to either 720p or 1080i with a good VP! Nowadays with the newer set top boxes it is becoming less of a concern. And yes part of my 1080i is the lag. The set top boxes take awhile when switching resolutions. And when you have a great Q chip like the REON VXP it will do wonders whether it is a 480i or 1080i going in. Trust me! After a couple of hours of testing this I am even more convinced. I can't say cable boxes will send a 480i at 1080i as good or Dish Network either... But the newer receivers from DirecTV, I sure can... Maybe everyone's set up is different. Maybe it depends on your display. I do suggest trying both. If 480i still looks better going in and coming out 1080p or 720p then stick with it. I am just giving my hard tested, A/B comparison opinion here. I know it goes against the current but it is going on 2008 and things change!

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post #729 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by word302 View Post

OK so I've had my 875 for a few days now. I'm definately no expert, but this thing is pretty incredible. I do have one issue. My SD programs are all getting stretched to fit my screen.(JVC HD61FH97) My STB(moto DCT3416 I) is set to 1080i for HD and 480i for SD. I have tried setting the SD to 1080i, it remains in 4:3(black bars, no stretching) but the pq is nowhere near as good. I don't know if I'm missing something here, as Joerod and others have said they prefer this setting, but I prefer the pq when the STB does not touch the picture. I just really don't like the stretched picture. My SD DVD's look amazing, even through composite.(old xbox not 360) I am fairly new to all this so any insight would be greatly appreciated.

You have your STB set correct. for best PQ. The only thing I would change is to allow 720P as well.
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post #730 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:18 AM
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I was told of a secret MENU by a good source. I will attempt it and see if it works today. If it does and it is beneficial I will gladly post it. If it is not working I will shoot my source!

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post #731 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:22 AM
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Oh and one other thing I forgot to mention. I do prefer a SD picture in 4:3. I do NOT like stretching them. I like the picture to be natural. So keep that in mind to. If you prefer to stretch your 4:3 picture then native might be your best alternative. I hardly watch SD channels anyway, but when I do I find my picture much nicer in its 4:3 mode as it was intended...

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post #732 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:24 AM
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Joerod, thanks for taking the time, I know you helped others and I in making a better informed decision. Looks like the 875 is for me!
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post #733 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:27 AM
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No problem. I just hope some realize what I post is definitely not the end all be all. Each set up needs to be treated differently. What works on some won't on others. Results vary... Now go get your 875 and ENJOY! I am heading back to the lab!

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post #734 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:34 AM
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Joerod,

Thanks for posting.

One last question. Did you consider the Integra 9.8? If so, what was your thinking about going with the 875 over the 9.8?

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post #735 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:37 AM
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Actually JimP, I am not going to keep the 875. I plan to get the 905 unit. I just like "playing" with the newer units when they come out. I have had a couple of 805s now, and I also own the 605 which I use for my outdoor theater! I will sell the 875 and grab a 905 as soon as they come out (hopefully sooner). If the 905 was not ever coming then I will say I would be totally happy with the 875. I am just sick!

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post #736 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:45 AM
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Joerod, I'm not sure if you mentioned this or not, but does it pass 1080P24 successfuly?
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post #737 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 06:48 AM
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So, the HT cabinet that I'm having built has all of the components in a closed space. After the fine reviews here, I've decided on the 875. I'm worried about heat dissipation. Is the thing really hot? Should I have holes cut in the back to help dissipate heat? Maybe not have a back on that part of the cabinet at all? Maybe install a small, quiet fan? I have plenty of room to separate the components, but basically they are all inside of a box.

Thanks.
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post #738 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 07:06 AM
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Don't leave us hanging!


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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I was told of a secret MENU by a good source. I will attempt it and see if it works today. If it does and it is beneficial I will gladly post it. If it is not working I will shoot my source!

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post #739 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rrkessler View Post

Maybe install a small, quiet fan? I have plenty of room to separate the components, but basically they are all inside of a box.

A fan would be the best idea. You can buy a silent low RPM computer fan, power it using an AC adapter. Screw the computer fan onto the backside of your cabinet (cut a hole in the back) You'll see some suggestions in the 805 thread.

That's what I would do.

Leaving the back off is the minimum you should do, but seeing as how the 875 series runs *really* hot, there is still a chance that the heat buildup will be higher than ideal and eventually fry your receiver over time. My friend has killed too many receivers this way, so I wouldnt take any chance

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post #740 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 07:14 AM
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It passes 1080p/24... Technically 1080p/23.98...

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post #741 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 07:27 AM
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Quote:


That review was like a blob of nothingness.... like a turd that doesn't stink... nondescript really....

There were people that were having certain problems with their 875's, right? Well, I wanted to let everyone know, that mine seems to be working properly. It wasn't supposed to be a review. If you want that, I suggest you wait until Cnet posts one. Some people don't have all day to sit on the internet, and type a long review.
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post #742 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 07:29 AM
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Like me.

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post #743 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joerod View Post

I definitely see it as a great alternative. I know it is hard to believe but I compared both last nite for a long time. And I still prefer going 1080i in for all channels. You can't get chicken salad out of chicken $h t. I will say some channels look better than others. I was all over the DirecTV guide testing. Mtv, you can't tell a difference. Others are so close most will not tell. I had my neighbors over and used them as guinee pigs. On almost every SD channel they could not see a difference when either sending in 480i or 1080i. I understand everyones concerns because just 2 years ago this was a BIG deal even for me. I also deinterlaced 480i to either 720p or 1080i with a good VP! Nowadays with the newer set top boxes it is becoming less of a concern. And yes part of my 1080i is the lag. The set top boxes take awhile when switching resolutions. And when you have a great Q chip like the REON VXP it will do wonders whether it is a 480i or 1080i going in. Trust me! After a couple of hours of testing this I am even more convinced. I can't say cable boxes will send a 480i at 1080i as good or Dish Network either... But the newer receivers from DirecTV, I sure can... Maybe everyone's set up is different. Maybe it depends on your display. I do suggest trying both. If 480i still looks better going in and coming out 1080p or 720p then stick with it. I am just giving my hard tested, A/B comparison opinion here. I know it goes against the current but it is going on 2008 and things change!

Thanks for this assessment Joe. I think what you're saying here, at least in terms of my applications, is the Reon is not quite as important as I first thought. I've got TVs that have been tested to do deinterlacing properly and, your tests showed no real advantage in having the Reon do the processing on regular 480i channels. We both agree on the time lag issue, but even from a processing standpoint it seems that many of the newer STBs are doing just as good a job at upconverting. So I really don't need the Reon for deinterlacing and apparently for SD processing.

I may still wind up with the 875 or 905, but maybe not for the same reasons I originally thought. All this is great info to use in making decisions!
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post #744 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:10 AM
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I'm sorry if I came off as bashing Onkyo, I am just frustrated. You're right dude2006 Denon has shipped a bad amp, every company has. Like all of you I have been patiently waiting for the 875 to ship for months and then to finally get it and have it fail is beyond irritating as you can imagine.
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post #745 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:10 AM
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Don't forget the sound is terrific to! Also, the REON does do a great job with HD sources. Just as good or better than my crystalio II!

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post #746 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:11 AM
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Every company has its share of lemmons. I would give it another shot...

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post #747 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by joerod View Post

Don't forget the sound is terrific to! Also, the REON does do a great job with HD sources. Just as good or better than my crystalio II!

And Joe, you make a GREAT point. How often do we overlook small things like sound in our receiver choice!!! People look to the Onkyos since they have such a great feature set, but often they forget you need high quality sound too. It's nice to hear the 875 does both.

The only reason I've got the 905 in the equation is for HD radio. Of course there's still the Denons, Pioneers and now the Sony 5300...this is getting way too complicated. It was easier choosing my 8g Pioneer plasma!
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post #748 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

You have your STB set correct. for best PQ. The only thing I would change is to allow 720P as well.

unfortunately the moto box only allows one output setting at a time. there is no native setting. it does have a 4:3 override, which I have set at 480i. The pq is dang good, but the stretching is unbearable.

Has anyone else sent SD in as native 480i? Does your picture automatically get stretched? Am I crazy?
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post #749 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:26 AM
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Ken, It also comes down to what type of TV you got and what other sources you got. For instance, if you have a pioneer and a toshiba xa2 then you are right, its probably not that big of a difference to justify a 875 as opposed to a 805. If on the other hand, you have a regular DVD player that doesn't have good upscaling and a TV that either doesn't deinterlace properly or doesn't pass the 3:2 cadence then an 875 would be more beneficial.


On another note:

I did some testing last night with my motorola 6416 III and a panasonic 50px60u (768p that accepts 1080i input). I was playing around with the HDMI out setting and the 480i override setting. I noticed that the best setting, in my opinion was HDMI out set at 1080i and 480i override set to 480i. What I gather is that for sources that are 480i, the signal is sent as 480i and NOT 1080i, hence the word override at which point the TV picks it up and deinterlaces and upscales/descales to 1366x768p. When I set the override to 'off' the box converts the 480i source into 1080i because that is what i have the HDMI out setting to, at which point the box deinterlaces and upscales and then passes it to the TV that has to deinterlace again and upscale/descale to 1366x768p, causing a double process or 3rd generation image by the time the TV displays it, this is why the PQ is less.


p.s. I still wonder why some of these components that include the reon and faroudja, why they don't allow you to set the output to 768p and only 720p, 1080i, 1080p. Pretty much all the people that have 1366x768p screens (which are quite a bit) get screwed in the sense that there will always be extra processing being done by the TV. Guess you gotta pony up and get 1080p native screen


edit: summary: I think some of you are giving the STB's more credit than they deserve. In my scenario, my TV is doing a better job at upscaling than the box. If you set the override to off the PQ is really bad. If you set it to 480i, meaning the signal isnt touched, the TV does a better job (granted it is still bad but not as bad as the stb. The difference is noticeably horrible, there is more noise and artifacts when the stb does it.)


Regards,
Jose


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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Thanks for this assessment Joe. I think what you're saying here, at least in terms of my applications, is the Reon is not quite as important as I first thought. I've got TVs that have been tested to do deinterlacing properly and, your tests showed no real advantage in having the Reon do the processing on regular 480i channels. We both agree on the time lag issue, but even from a processing standpoint it seems that many of the newer STBs are doing just as good a job at upconverting. So I really don't need the Reon for deinterlacing and apparently for SD processing.

I may still wind up with the 875 or 905, but maybe not for the same reasons I originally thought. All this is great info to use in making decisions!

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post #750 of 6050 Old 07-27-2007, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjurroz View Post

Ken, It also comes down to what type of TV you got and what other sources you got. For instance, if you have a pioneer and a toshiba xa2 then you are right, its probably not that big of a difference to justify a 875 as opposed to a 805. If on the other hand, you have a regular DVD player that doesn't have good upscaling and a TV that either doesn't deinterlace properly or doesn't pass the 3:2 cadence then an 875 would be more beneficial.

Jose

Yup, you're right Jose. My setup includes both Pioneer 8g plasma, Fujitsu plasma, Toshiba XA2 and FIOS STB (actually both Tivo S3 and FIOS PVR). So the TVs deinterlace properly, the XA2 already has the Reon processor and I, like Joe, prefer my STB to do a constant 1080i output. So there is literally no reason for me to use the Reon. I would not have felt this way IF I was able to output the box at 'native' and not have the channel change delay that's already been confirmed by owners. We had hoped this would be eliminated with the Reon, but apparently it's not.

I'm still unclear if it's the STB that causes the delay or if the Reon still needs to 'resynch' in some way when it sees a channel resolution change. I was always under the impression it was the TV that needed to resynch and was causing the delay. When you watch a TV doing this, it's almost painful to watch....blackness, sometimes a line, then distortion, then the picture. Somehow it just looks like it's not 'good' for the display in addition to the annoyance (for me) of the time lag.

Either way there's a delay and for me that means the STB stays at 1080i for everything.
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