"The" Onkyo TX-SR875 Thread - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > "The" Onkyo TX-SR875 Thread
Mikenificent1's Avatar Mikenificent1 06:40 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by john barlow View Post

I emailed Onkyo product support and requested that they either instruct me on how to control the Reon vp or provide a fw upgrade. I suggest all ofther parties that wish to have control over the Reon vp do the same.

I think you would get better results if everybody emailed/called them as POTENTIAL buyers rather than already owning the 875. Big CE's rarely care about current customers, only new, so why would they change the firmware if they already have your money. Let's be realistic.

borg.cube's Avatar borg.cube 06:42 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

As you are correct about the manuals, the 905 came with an insert, sort of like an addendum to the manual that explains these functions. I would not expect these features that I don't see advertised in their manual or supporting literature. And that's not just Onkyo, that's any CE company. Either way, there's no doubt they could've done a better job with 875's capabilities in comparision to the 905. Still a GREAT vp nonetheless.

The REON chip is a great chip and matched bit-for-bit what the Crystalio II $ 5000 VP could do for standard settings. The features that Onkyo supplies as turned OFF on the REON by default on the 875 are those one would turn off anyway on quality source material. But there are times that COMCAST sends out ---- and you might want to tweak the image. For now the best solution is send the 875s back and order a 905 if that will keep you happy. The 905 is better in many areas and the price differential over the anticipated life of the device would be less than $ 50/year to own the 905.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 06:44 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

You don't happen to work for Onkyo do you?

Actually I agree with most of your points having done alot of video processor testing on this forum and owned a number of them as well. I think what has alot of folks frustrated is Onkyo never made it clear in either their marketing materials or their user manuals just when control one had over the REON chip. Even now the 905 manual says nothing about the video chip settings but there they are in the menus. So a number of folks ordered the 875 vice the 905 expecting that whatever they found -- both devices would have the same menus for the same chip. I understand their disappointment which resulted from terrible pre-release information (and the user manual) and strongly encourage them to RETURN their 875 and purchase the 905 for the $ 200 or so price difference if they fell that this will always be a sore point.

The last thing anybody wants is that every time they show off their system, they say to themselves "I wish I had ordered the 905." According to most vendors, the 905s will be plentiful in about a month. I think owners are quite justified in doing a return with Onkyo's position on the firmware. Furthermore, if a lot of folks return the 875s for 905s that will also send a message to Onkyo to clean up their act on their marketing materials in the future and/or release a firmware update for the 875 to keep the remaining owners happy.

What is really damning about Onkyo is the way they treated the purchasers of their FLAGSHIP TX-NR1000. I owned one and eventually got rid of it. It was supposed to be upgradeable for many years -- you would be able to buy cards to slide into it to change features. But Onkyo never supported the device (which had an MSRP of $ 5000) and for years stalled on releasing anything-- only now you see some half ass cards being released for ridiculous prices. Just read how frustrated the Onkyo TX-NR1000 owners are in THAT thread.

Please -- do NOT expect a firmware upgrade for the 875 to provide new features. Onkyo's history with the TX-NR1000 cards should serve as a warning. You get what you get when you purchase. If you want the 905 firmware, send the 875 back and let Onkyo or their authorized vendors deal with all the "open box" returns.

You say you agree with most of my points but yet you still urge people to upgrade to the 905 ??? Not everyone can afford to do this, and those that can't should not be made to feel like second class citizens because they own a 875. Especially for features that will give them no real benefit. Or just to have bragging rights when they show off their system . Anyone who buys gear to feel good about themselves or to make others feel good about them is beyond this forums help.
borg.cube's Avatar borg.cube 06:45 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Keith Mickunas View Post

Are you kidding? That's what Onkyo wants. If people return these and want to send a message, they need to buy something from someone else. If you give Onkyo more money they win. It tells them by crippling the software they can force people into an expensive upgrade and yet still sell pretty much the same thing.

Not that I'm complaining. The 875 works fine for my purposes.

My thinking--and I could be wrong (its the hive mentality) is that if the authorized resellers get "stuck" with a lot of open box units for this reason-- they will bitch to Onkyo. Onkyo is more likely to listen to their resellers than to us.
borg.cube's Avatar borg.cube 06:50 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

You say you agree with most of my points but yet you still urge people to upgrade to the 905 ??? Not everyone can afford to do this, and those that can't should not be made to feel like second class citizens because they own a 875. Especially for features that will give them no real benefit. Or just to have bragging rights when they show off their system . Anyone who buys gear to feel good about themselves or to make others feel good about them is beyond this forums help.

If you can't afford a $ 1500 receiver (the 905), you certainly shouldn't be buying a $ 1300 receiver either. There is a lot of monetary difference here between the $ 500 receivers and the $ 1500 receivers but not between the 875 and 905. No one should make themselves "home theater poor" if the 875 is a large financial stretch. That's just good sense when it comes to budgeting and credit.

I don't agree that there no substantial improvements in the 905 design overall over the 875. They are NOT identical units with a video firmware difference. Many of the internal components are also superior on the 905. One has to look at the anticipated life of the unit in their household and decide if the prorated cost over its lifetime makes sense to upgrade.

It appears that as an authorized seller YOU don't want a lot of 875 units being returned to you-- my point exactly. Upset the resellers and they'll complain to Onkyo!
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 06:51 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

The REON chip is a great chip and matched bit-for-bit what the Crystalio II $ 5000 VP could do for standard settings. The features that Onkyo supplies as turned OFF on the REON by default on the 875 are those one would turn off anyway on quality source material. But there are times that COMCAST sends out ---- and you might want to tweak the image. For now the best solution is send the 875s back and order a 905 if that will keep you happy. The 905 is better in many areas and the price differential over the anticipated life of the device would be less than $ 50/year to own the 905.

But like I mentioned earlier, these settings are universal. Which means that the end user would have to go into the setup menu each time to activate and deactivate for cable and HD-Disc sources. As they may work wonders with Comcast they won't be so effective with BR & HD-DVD and can actually do them harm. Who wants to keep switching? I don't. Hi-end processors like those from Anthem allow you to tweak video settings for each input. I would be more concerned if the 905 had those features.
Mikenificent1's Avatar Mikenificent1 06:51 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

Bottomline, if you absolutely need these features that you will probably not benefit from feel free to make the upgrade to the 905.

How do you figure we will "probably not benefit from" the extra adhustments??? Mosquito and Block NR can make a big difference, especially if you have a big screen and projector where such noise is more noticeable.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 06:53 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

If you can't afford a $ 1500 receiver (the 905), you certainly shouldn't be buying a $ 1300 receiver either. There is alot of difference here between the $ 500 receivers and the $ 1500 receivers but not between the 875 and 905. No one should make themselves "home theater poor" if the 875 is a large financial stretch. That's just good sense when it comes to budgeting and credit.

I don't agree that there no substantial improvements in the 905 design overall over the 875. They are NOT identical units with a video firmware difference. Many of the internal components are also superior on the 905. One has to look at the anticipated life of the unit in their household and decide if the prorated cost over its lifetime makes sense to upgrade.

It appears that as an authorized seller YOU don't want a lot of 875 units being returned to you-- my point exactly. Upset the resellers and they'll complain to Onkyo!

???????

Are we talking audio or video. Because video wise they are the same minus the firmware that allows the picture menus? The 905 does have other benefits that is completely off topic. Believe it or not $200 is a lot of money to some people, a friend of mines saved up for his 875 for 2 months, why don't you e-mail him and tell him his receiver is sub-par
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 06:55 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

How do you figure we will "probably not benefit from" the extra adhustments??? Mosquito and Block NR can make a big difference, especially if you have a big screen and projector where such noise is more noticeable.

The benefits are more apparent with cable/satellite sources, you ever tried NR on hi-def disc content? I tried it with my XA2, didn't provide great results and often resulted in softening the image.
borg.cube's Avatar borg.cube 06:56 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

But like I mentioned earlier, these settings are universal. Which means that the end user would have to go into the setup menu each time to activate and deactivate for cable and HD-Disc sources. As they may work wonders with Comcast they won't be so effective with BR & HD-DVD and can actually do them harm. Who wants to keep switching? I don't. Hi-end processors like those from Anthem allow you to tweak video settings for each input. I would be more concerned if the 905 had those features.

It makes me wonder just who the idiots are that program these things. Why don't these manufacturers do any real user interface testing?? For a trivial cost of memory and a change in the programming, Onkyo could have easily made the settings settable on a per input basis. Additionally the remote controls for the Onkyo are as stupid as most others I've seen-- except for TIVO. FIRST figure out what operations the user wants to do on a frequent basis-- and then put THOSE button functions on the remote. A one button push of a choice of video settings (set 1, set 2, set 3) would have been great. Toshiba did that on their HD-XA2 which sells for alot less than the 875 or 905.

Come on-- do some usability testing first. The problem is that the engineers and deciding the feature sets-- not the real users.
borg.cube's Avatar borg.cube 06:58 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

???????

Are we talking audio or video. Because video wise they are the same minus the firmware that allows the picture menus? The 905 does have other benefits that is completely off topic. Believe it or not $200 is a lot of money to some people, a friend of mines saved up for his 875 for 2 months, why don't you e-mail him and tell him his receiver is sub-par

Actually I would rather tell him how he could have invested that money for a few months and then got whatever receiver he wanted.

I just hope he doesn't have one of those ARM mortgages either!
Mikenificent1's Avatar Mikenificent1 06:59 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by foofoobar View Post

For reference, the XA2 (with the Reon) produces excellent SD upscaling w/ NR and Edge Enhacement off. My guess that most people aren't aware of the existence of these settings, but the glowing reviews are testament to the fact that it (and by extension the 875) can produce a stunning upscaled picture by default.

In my limited testing, I found the SD-DVD upscaling of the 875 to be on par with the XA2 (after the brightness was turned down). However, I maintain that they should have included the (secret) menu for the people who do want to play w/ the settings...

What you're forgetting is that the XA2 is dealing with a pristine source compared to cable and satellite feeds where you really need the NR features of the Reon!!
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 07:00 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

It appears that as an authorized seller YOU don't want a lot of 875 units being returned to you-- my point exactly. Upset the resellers and they'll complain to Onkyo!

Yup you've got me all figured out.

Check out the Onkyo anticipation thread, I'm not here for that. The only reason I mentioned it at all is to tell people where I get my info from, I never solicit business nor conduct business on the forum.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 07:02 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

What you're forgetting is that the XA2 is dealing with a pristine source compared to cable and satellite feeds where you really need the NR features of the Reon!!

My point exactly, NR does more harm than good on pristine HD sources. My point is do you want to switch back and forth in the user menu each time you go from cable to hd-disc? You also may want to remember that NR is not perfect it's hit or miss, it won't work wonders every time.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 07:04 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

Actually I would rather tell him how he could have invested that money for a few months and then got whatever receiver he wanted.

I just hope he doesn't have one of those ARM mortgages either!

He's perfectly happy with the receiver he has, as he should be. Some will be bothered by these features, some will not.
Mikenificent1's Avatar Mikenificent1 07:11 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

My point exactly, NR does more harm than good on pristine HD sources. My point is do you want to switch back and forth in the user menu each time you go from cable to hd-disc? You also may want to remember that NR is not perfect it's hit or miss, it won't work wonders every time.

I watch my HD Cable STB (i.e. LOTS of mosquito and block noise) at least 75% of the time so I would not have a problem switching the NR. This is not regular NR either, the Silicon Optix NR is suppose to be excellent.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 07:15 PM 08-13-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

I watch my HD Cable STB (i.e. LOTS of mosquito and block noise) at least 75% of the time so I would not have a problem switching the NR. This is not regular NR either, the Silicon Optix NR is suppose to be excellent.

It is excellent, but it ain't perfect. It's still hit or miss, just as all the blurays and hd-dvd's aren't the same, all cable/satellite broadcasts aren't the same. Some compress way more than others.

If you don't mind switching in the menu, by all means do the upgrade .

BTW, I know what you mean about Block Noise, EPSN is terrible for me through Time Warner.
foofoobar's Avatar foofoobar 12:04 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikenificent1 View Post

What you're forgetting is that the XA2 is dealing with a pristine source compared to cable and satellite feeds where you really need the NR features of the Reon!!

You do have a point there. Also, some of the XA2's Reon control features (like Edge Enhancement) are programmed so that they have no impact on HD material.

In any case, regardless of whether the menu settings are useful, some people do care about it and we need to get the message across to them!!!
nutthouse's Avatar nutthouse 12:44 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

My point exactly, NR does more harm than good on pristine HD sources. My point is do you want to switch back and forth in the user menu each time you go from cable to hd-disc? You also may want to remember that NR is not perfect it's hit or miss, it won't work wonders every time.

But, the 875 would be better with the options menu. My wife watches a lot of Comcast SD and sometimes a cleaner picture would keep me in the room. If its not HD I generally don't watch it. The Reon has improved things but there are the times I would like to play with it to see if PQ would be improved more (it already has improved it).
I probably will not go with the 905 as the other features I don't need. I think the menu should have been there from the start, Onkyo advertised both as Reon enabled. This should not be a marketing tool. If enough consumers keep calling and stating their disappointment the control menu is not there maybe Onkyo will update the firmware. What does it hurt to try.
bplewis24's Avatar bplewis24 02:14 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

I just hope he doesn't have one of those ARM mortgages either!

Low blow!

Brandon
SteveLD's Avatar SteveLD 06:51 AM 08-14-2007
After getting everything all set up I am very satisfied. It does an incredible job with the picture for both HD and SD. Sound quality is great too.

My only complaint is that on NBC HD there appears to be a delay in the audio that wasn't there before. I haven't really played with it too much but it is noticeable. Other than that it is great.
john barlow's Avatar john barlow 07:14 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteveLD View Post

After getting everything all set up I am very satisfied. It does an incredible job with the picture for both HD and SD. Sound quality is great too.

My only complaint is that on NBC HD there appears to be a delay in the audio that wasn't there before. I haven't really played with it too much but it is noticeable. Other than that it is great.

I had something similar happen to me while watching NBC the other night. The Dolby Digital feed kept cutting out and the receiver had to search for an audio signal. This caused annoying breaks in the audio portion of the show.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 07:43 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by bplewis24 View Post

Low blow!

Brandon

Tell me about it, I had to take the high road with that one . Some comments don't deserve responses.
dkny75's Avatar dkny75 08:16 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkny75 View Post

One question I have is what resolution should I output the video signal from the HD-A1, PS3 and cable box? My tv is a Samsung 5085DLP that can take in and display a 720p or 1080i picture. I currently have the previous 3 devices outputting at 720p. Should they be at 1080i? Also should I have my 875 ouput at 720p or 1080i?

Can anyone take a stab at my previous question or is it just trial and error?
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 08:26 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by dkny75 View Post

Can anyone take a stab at my previous question or is it just trial and error?

Considering the native resolution of your display appears to be 720p I would feed your components 1080i into the 875 and allow the reon to deinterlace it to 720p. The 875 deinterlaces better than the HDA1 & PS3 so I would let the reon do all the heavy lifting.

Just my .02
sjv's Avatar sjv 08:40 AM 08-14-2007
This is a very important function for me. Has anyone determined for certain that the 875 will or will not do the following?

DirecTV HR20 on and tuned to one of the XM music channels, connected to 875 via hdmi, 875 connected to monitor via hdmi, monitor (TV) off.

1. Using the above hdmi hook-ups, will sound (music) of HR20 be output from 875, via speakers hookup, with the monitor (TV) off?

2. If not, is there a hookup from the HR20 to the 875 that will provide this?

Thanks
Jantzen's Avatar Jantzen 09:05 AM 08-14-2007
I noticed some comments about picture softening via HDMI on this unit. I am outputting 720p from my 875 and notice no such thing. Just curious what users are outputting when they see this - 720p / 1080i / 1080p or Passthrough.

Thanks.
lrstevens421's Avatar lrstevens421 09:22 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantzen View Post

I noticed some comments about picture softening via HDMI on this unit. I am outputting 720p from my 875 and notice no such thing. Just curious what users are outputting when they see this - 720p / 1080i / 1080p or Passthrough.

Thanks.

In my case it was prior to calibration. lowering the brightness and increasing the sharpness a few notches fixed this. To be honest with you I think it was more human error than anything else. I was outputting my Blu-ray and HD-DVD player as 1080i and having the reon deinterlace it to 1080p.
dkny75's Avatar dkny75 09:47 AM 08-14-2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrstevens421 View Post

Considering the native resolution of your display appears to be 720p I would feed your components 1080i into the 875 and allow the reon to deinterlace it to 720p. The 875 deinterlaces better than the HDA1 & PS3 so I would let the reon do all the heavy lifting.

Just my .02

Thanks for the advice, good to hear from a fellow New Yorker.
EskimoPie's Avatar EskimoPie 11:05 AM 08-14-2007
I received my new 875 from J&R yesterday and I gotta say I'm loving it so far.

I want to say though I'm having NO issues with the SD 4:3 content like I've heard so many people complaining about. I was very concerned about this so I'm very relieved that my 4:3 SD is remaining 4:3 through the 875. My setup is a TiVo S3 via HDMI to the 875 and then on to a Samsung 60" LED DLP via HDMI. The TiVo is set to "Native" which passes all signals through without scaling them, the 875 is set to 1080p and the TV is set to 'Just Scan' which essentially means no scaling or stretching is happening.

Obviously I get the couple seconds of blank screen time when switching between different resolution channels (switching between channels of the same resolution happens instantly) but HD channels are 16:9 and SD channels are 4:3... and it all looks beautiful! All I can figure is that the S3 is somehow adding the pillar boxing to the 4:3 content, but that doesn't really make sense to me... How would it know to pillar box the 480i content all of a sudden?

One of my gripes about the 875 is that I had planned to Bi-Amp my front towers... well it turns out that you can't use Zone 2 speakers if you're Bi-Amping the fronts... The 875 only has 7 amps... w/ a 5.1 system like I have, and bi-amping the mains, you're using up all 7 amps and there is nothing left to drive the outside zone 2 speakers. You can still use the pre-outs and drive an external amp, but I was really don't want to get another amp. So I'll just keep the front mains wired normally and use the last 2 amps to drive the zone 2 speakers. I suppose its kind of obvious that there would be this limitation but I hadn't thought of it prior... I guess I assumed the zone2 had it's own dedicated amps, when in reality the are shared between the Back Surrounds (which can be used for bi-amping a 5.1 setup) and the Zone 2 speaker terminals.
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