The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread - Page 153 - AVS Forum
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post #4561 of 5101 Old 06-11-2010, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Do you have a sub and if so which one? Are you using a cross over or are you running your speakers full range?

My sub is Rel-T3. and I have set all the speakers to small and the cross over to 80hz. One thing that I have noticed is that when I set the dsp from standard dolby digital 5.1 system to 5 channel stereo the sound is little bit clearer. I dont know if anybody else has noticed this.
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post #4562 of 5101 Old 06-11-2010, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ahrh View Post

All my speakers can handle max 200w. How much amp power do you think I will need? Do you have any experience or preference for any of commercial amps in the maket. And if you dont mind can you tell me what kind of amps you are using for your speakers. Thanks again for your feedback.

when you look at speaker power handlig capacity it does not mean you cannot use a higher power amp. It just means you cannot throw more than 200w at your speakers.

Then you might ask why do I need more power? the answer to this question would be headroom. It is easier for a 400w amp to output 200w to your speakers than a lesser power amp.

But, when considering amps another quality factor which is very important is current capacity. Being able to handle high current peaks translates to more dynamics. Part of this can be checked on how much capacitance (generally shown as XXXXX micro farads) and overall design. That is why I recomended not only more power but equal or more quality build. Generally amps that can handle 4ohm and lower are better in this respect.

Please note that at one meter distance your speakers are capable of around 88 decibels with only one watt fed to them (this is the sensivity).

So what all this means is that you can get amps with equal power specs from those on this receiver but with a much bigger transformer, current capacity and overall quality design. That is what you should look for in a amp.

I have a Haffler 500 heavily modded which can handle 1000w at 4ohm for front L/R. It's toroidal transformer has an output capacity of 90volts (a simple DVD player puts out a 2volt signal on average). I have this because when listening to music I do not use the receiver at all. I have a Preamp connected to the player and amp. when on HT use the preamp is set to bypass and the receiver controls volume etc...

For the center channel and passive subwoofer I have Sunrise Lab Power Amp
which has about 680W per channel in 4ohm.

The surrounds are powered by the receiver. Of course my dream is to have good monoblocks for each channel but since I do not print money, for the last 10 years it is what I could put together. The results as it is are already very good but I have the upgrade bug so...
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post #4563 of 5101 Old 06-11-2010, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundMike View Post

when you look at speaker power handlig capacity it does not mean you cannot use a higher power amp. It just means you cannot throw more than 200w at your speakers.

Then you might ask why do I need more power? the answer to this question would be headroom. It is easier for a 400w amp to output 200w to your speakers than a lesser power amp.

But, when considering amps another quality factor which is very important is current capacity. Being able to handle high current peaks translates to more dynamics. Part of this can be checked on how much capacitance (generally shown as XXXXX micro farads) and overall design. That is why I recomended not only more power but equal or more quality build. Generally amps that can handle 4ohm and lower are better in this respect.

Please note that at one meter distance your speakers are capable of around 88 decibels with only one watt fed to them (this is the sensivity).

So what all this means is that you can get amps with equal power specs from those on this receiver but with a much bigger transformer, current capacity and overall quality design. That is what you should look for in a amp.

I have a Haffler 500 heavily modded which can handle 1000w at 4ohm for front L/R. It's toroidal transformer has an output capacity of 90volts (a simple DVD player puts out a 2volt signal on average). I have this because when listening to music I do not use the receiver at all. I have a Preamp connected to the player and amp. when on HT use the preamp is set to bypass and the receiver controls volume etc...

For the center channel and passive subwoofer I have Sunrise Lab Power Amp
which has about 680W per channel in 4ohm.

The surrounds are powered by the receiver. Of course my dream is to have good monoblocks for each channel but since I do not print money, for the last 10 years it is what I could put together. The results as it is are already very good but I have the upgrade bug so...

Thanks for your response. It was very informative. now I understands a little more about amps.
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post #4564 of 5101 Old 06-13-2010, 06:01 AM
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Sorry to ask such a stupid question, but this has been bothering me a while.

I currently have my denon 3800 cd player hooked up via analog to the "CD IN" of my Denon 4308. Question: If im playing cds, and set my denon 4308 to Pure Direct Mode, will the Denon 4308 re digitize the analog signal for bass management or re digitize it again in any other manner. I dont want this as this would defeat the purpose of using the 3800 better dacs.

Im contemplating if I should take the "long Journey" of unconnecting everything, take my tv (very heavy by the way and to get it out of the way) off the wall mount, and reconnecting the 3800 analogues to the Denon 4308's "EXT IN" to prevent this?
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post #4565 of 5101 Old 06-13-2010, 03:30 PM
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I am not sure if anyone is using their iPad hooked up to their AVR yet so I thought I would share. The quality of the Sirius streaming over the internet via the iPad and played through the AVR is really not that bad.

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post #4566 of 5101 Old 06-14-2010, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monstosity12 View Post

Sorry to ask such a stupid question, but this has been bothering me a while.

I currently have my denon 3800 cd player hooked up via analog to the "CD IN" of my Denon 4308. Question: If im playing cds, and set my denon 4308 to Pure Direct Mode, will the Denon 4308 re digitize the analog signal for bass management or re digitize it again in any other manner. I dont want this as this would defeat the purpose of using the 3800 better dacs.

Im contemplating if I should take the "long Journey" of unconnecting everything, take my tv (very heavy by the way and to get it out of the way) off the wall mount, and reconnecting the 3800 analogues to the Denon 4308's "EXT IN" to prevent this?

Just because someone does not know an answer to something does not make them stupid. Stupidity is the inability to learn or lack of intelligence so I never consider any question stupid. There are a great deal of things that I also seek thru research (like networking all the gear I have. I am presently getting beat ). It is impossible for us to master every single bit of information. whatever little knowledge I have acumulated over the years I try to share the best I can.

Regarding your question, when you activate pure direct mode and input an analog or digital signal it just gets amplified or converted and amplified with no digital processing unless you otherwise chage the setting within the menu. there is no bass management or audyssey corection, video circuits are turned off and etc. when you have good quality speakers, cables etc.. the diference is quite obvious.

The main difference between feeding an analog or digital signal when in Pure direct mode is that the digital signal gets converted and thats it.( no processing).

I do not know your player's specs so I cannot tell which DAC is better ( is your player the blu-ray 3800?). My suggestion is try both and compare which sounds best for you. Play a good quality recording that you know well and listen for the differences (Dynamics, transparency, tonal balance and etc...).

Please observe that for the comparison to be fair, digital and analog interconnect cabling have to be of the same quality. Ignore sound pressure differences. Raise or lower the volume as necessary for comparison as there may be a difference in signal level and this could deceive your perception.

As you upgrade interconection or power cabling cabling, repeat the comparison. Use what sounds best.

Hope this could help.

All the best,

Michael
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post #4567 of 5101 Old 06-17-2010, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundMike View Post

Regarding your question, when you activate pure direct mode and input an analog or digital signal it just gets amplified or converted and amplified with no digital processing unless you otherwise chage the setting within the menu.

Mike,

You should also mention that under the Auto Setup/Option/Direct Mode menu setting, "Use Room EQ for Direct or Pure Direct" can be toggled on or off. If this setting is "On", I believe Audyssey room correction is applied to the Pure Direct signal. Is this your understanding as well?

Jerry

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post #4568 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Mike,

You should also mention that under the Auto Setup/Option/Direct Mode menu setting, "Use Room EQ for Direct or Pure Direct" can be toggled on or off. If this setting is "On", I believe Audyssey room correction is applied to the Pure Direct signal. Is this your understanding as well?

Jerry

Yes, it is. I did not mention it because I did not remember the path to explain to the OP (I access the Forum from my office ). If you really want to take advantage of the Direct/Pure Direct mode all processing has to be toggled off within the menus.

Just to be fair. the drop in the end quality is not because of the various softwares like Audyssey ( which is very good) it is the result of noisy electrical environment of the circuits implementations.

When you move up the line to the 5308 where tranformers are toroidal and overall components are better the situation is lessened but still when you use pure direct on them the result is also very noticeable.

There are a lot of mods that can be implemented to this unit that can improve sound quality. I am presently changing the the original power suply's capacitors for Black Gates with greater capacitance, fuses are now Furutech (cryogenically treated) among other technical mods that little by little increase overall quality.

Hope I did not bore anyone

All the best,

Michael
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post #4569 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 07:25 AM
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I can only get my zone 2 to play when I set it to TUNER.

I want to have my receiver push out video using the HDMI Monitor and HDMI Monitor 2.
I also want the audio to the same thing

Here is what I currently have
Main Zone
FR-FL - 2 Mythos STS
C - Mythos 9
Surround A - 2 Mythos GEM
Surround Back - 2 Mythos GEM

Zone2 - I think
AMP Assign 2 - 2 Outdoors Bose's

Inputs
HDMI1 (DVD) - PS3
HDMI2 (DVR) - HD DVR Direct TV

L&R SAT - NIN Wii

I want to be able to use 7.1 on the Main Zone when I don't want access Zone 2
I want zone 2 to convert Main Zone to 5.1 and 2 chanel out for zone 2

I want the HDMI video outs to have the ability to use seperate sources
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post #4570 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by badduck1974 View Post

I can only get my zone 2 to play when I set it to TUNER.

there is a function within the menus called amp assign where you have to determine how te internal amplifiers will handle channels. If I remember corectly you cannot power zone 2 using 7.1 setup on main.

You may have 5.1 on main and 2.0 on zone 2. If you wanted to use all three zones you would have to assign stereo channels for all zones.

All the best,


Michael
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post #4571 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 02:45 PM
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uumm, silly question... Do I have to connect a TV (access the GUI) to use my 4810? I just got it and hooked it up to my outdoor speakers so that I can jam to the iPod by the pool, but I am not getting any sound. I wasn't planning on getting a tv for this room until Aug/Sept. I guess I can drag out an old crt, but do I need a tv just to get a quick start for my outside speakers?

Currently in the "Design" Phase of my new Theater build

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post #4572 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HaleMoana View Post

uumm, silly question... Do I have to connect a TV (access the GUI) to use my 4810? I just got it and hooked it up to my outdoor speakers so that I can jam to the iPod by the pool, but I am not getting any sound. I wasn't planning on getting a tv for this room until Aug/Sept. I guess I can drag out an old crt, but do I need a tv just to get a quick start for my outside speakers?

oopppsss... wrong thread. sorry. please disregard

Currently in the "Design" Phase of my new Theater build

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post #4573 of 5101 Old 06-18-2010, 10:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HaleMoana View Post

uumm, silly question... Do I have to connect a TV (access the GUI) to use my 4810? I just got it and hooked it up to my outdoor speakers so that I can jam to the iPod by the pool, but I am not getting any sound. I wasn't planning on getting a tv for this room until Aug/Sept. I guess I can drag out an old crt, but do I need a tv just to get a quick start for my outside speakers?

Set up your receiver and and makes the changes you want from any room via the network over your iPhone, iPad or really anything you want?
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post #4574 of 5101 Old 06-22-2010, 04:58 PM
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I'm considering purchasing a used 4308 or 4310. I have seen and read mixed messages regarding the 4308' audyssey version. I think some say it has XT while one of the denon specification pages didn't have Audyssey "checked". Sorry if this question has been asked before.

Thanks, Garth
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post #4575 of 5101 Old 06-22-2010, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by gakaudio View Post

I'm considering purchasing a used 4308 or 4310. I have seen and read mixed messages regarding the 4308' audyssey version. I think some say it has XT while one of the denon specification pages didn't have Audyssey "checked". Sorry if this question has been asked before.

Thanks, Garth

The 4308 comes with audyssey XT.
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post #4576 of 5101 Old 06-22-2010, 10:09 PM
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The 4308 comes with MultEQ XT, and with the 'A' upgrade you get DynamicEQ and Dynamic Volume as well.

"Unplugging the signal cable is pretty much the ultimate in component isolation. Now if you removed the AC power and it still did it you should look for the little blond girl saying "they're he-re."
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post #4577 of 5101 Old 06-24-2010, 10:13 AM
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does the 4310 have a better audssey EQ? there's like 50,000 different versions.

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post #4578 of 5101 Old 06-24-2010, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

does the 4310 have a better audssey EQ? there's like 50,000 different versions.

The 4310 has, and extra DSX version which matrixes sound to height and width channels and implements room correction for said speakers.

All the best,


Michael
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post #4579 of 5101 Old 07-03-2010, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFonger View Post

does the 4310 have a better audssey EQ? there's like 50,000 different versions.

AFAIK, "Audyssey MultEQ XT" is the same technology, regardless of the AVR (so it is the same in both the 4308 and the 4310). MultEQ XT Pro is entirely different, and represents the next level of room correction. And MultEQ XT 32 is on the horizon, and not too much information has been released yet.

There has been a lot of discussion regarding different AVR manufacturer's allocation of CPU power for handling the resulting Audyssey response filters, but neither the manufacturers nor Audyssey are likely to comment on these potential differences. So, while Audyssey XT may be the same across different AVR's, the resulting implementation could vary.

Audyssey DSX is a feature, like Dynamic Eq and Dynamic volume, and is unrelated to room correction.

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post #4580 of 5101 Old 07-16-2010, 09:42 PM
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Well I just turned my 4308 into a pre amp today. I bought the Emotiva XPA-2 for the two front speakers and the XPA-3 for the center and two rear speakers. I used trigger 1 and trigger 2 to power up the amps and it works beautifully. Running 300 watts to the fronts and 200 to the center and rears makes a H - U - G - E difference! I went as long as I could on the Denon power but in the end I needed more...
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post #4581 of 5101 Old 07-16-2010, 10:00 PM
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Yesterday we had storms and my wife turned off the powerstrip to my 4308ci. In the evening when I turned it back on it had lost all it's settings, including Audyssey, inputs' information such as renames and which HDMI input, and also the network configuration.

I tried small button reset, but it didn't change anything. Even microprocessor reset, which I knew would lose the settings if they were somehow still present, didn't work. I hoped at least the lack of the ability to setup my network would get fixed.

I have been able to redo all the setup stuff and redo Audyssey. BUT the network setup selection does nothing. Doesn't go to another screen to set up the network. The network info screen shows DHCP but with no IP. My network uses static IP and the Denon worked fine with it's IP address.

I even set my router to DHCP just to see if the router and the Denon could find each other. Nope.

I have the latest firmware.

Anybody have any idea how to cough up this hairball?
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post #4582 of 5101 Old 07-16-2010, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

Yesterday we had storms and my wife turned off the powerstrip to my 4308ci. In the evening when I turned it back on it had lost all it's settings, including Audyssey, inputs' information such as renames and which HDMI input, and also the network configuration.

I tried small button reset, but it didn't change anything. Even microprocessor reset, which I knew would lose the settings if they were somehow still present, didn't work. I hoped at least the lack of the ability to setup my network would get fixed.

I have been able to redo all the setup stuff and redo Audyssey. BUT the network setup selection does nothing. Doesn't go to another screen to set up the network. The network info screen shows DHCP but with no IP. My network uses static IP and the Denon worked fine with it's IP address.

I even set my router to DHCP just to see if the router and the Denon could find each other. Nope.

I have the latest firmware.

Anybody have any idea how to cough up this hairball?

Did you back up your settings so if you can load all of your old settings over the GUI? Getting the internet might be a hurdle but if you can set it up with no security long enough to load the settings it would be the quickest way...
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post #4583 of 5101 Old 07-16-2010, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Did you back up your settings so if you can load all of your old settings over the GUI? Getting the internet might be a hurdle but if you can set it up with no security long enough to load the settings it would be the quickest way...

I do have a backup but have only ever done that sort of thing over the network. Are you saying I can do this with a flash drive?
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post #4584 of 5101 Old 07-17-2010, 03:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Well I just turned my 4308 into a pre amp today. I bought the Emotiva XPA-2 for the two front speakers and the XPA-3 for the center and two rear speakers. I used trigger 1 and trigger 2 to power up the amps and it works beautifully. Running 300 watts to the fronts and 200 to the center and rears makes a H - U - G - E difference! I went as long as I could on the Denon power but in the end I needed more...

Very interesting. Curious as to why not leave the surrounds on the Denon? Also--how do those Emotiva's sound compared to Denon ??
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post #4585 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

Well I just turned my 4308 into a pre amp today. I bought the Emotiva XPA-2 for the two front speakers and the XPA-3 for the center and two rear speakers. I used trigger 1 and trigger 2 to power up the amps and it works beautifully. Running 300 watts to the fronts and 200 to the center and rears makes a H - U - G - E difference! I went as long as I could on the Denon power but in the end I needed more...


I was researching the XPA's after reading your comment and noticed there was a sale. Then I read the reviews. Then I started looking at my system and two or three times said "Nah, I don't need that". Then I figured I could test the XPA-3's on my fronts and center. OK-so I bought the XPA-3's

Now, I'm trying to decide if I should do like you and get the 2's as well. See what you did!!!!
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post #4586 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 03:49 AM
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By the way---what dd you use for cables to connect the Denon?
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post #4587 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post


I was researching the XPA's after reading your comment and noticed there was a sale. Then I read the reviews. Then I started looking at my system and two or three times said "Nah, I don't need that". Then I figured I could test the XPA-3's on my fronts and center. OK-so I bought the XPA-3's

Now, I'm trying to decide if I should do like you and get the 2's as well. See what you did!!!!

You pretty much did everything exactly the way I did when I purchased. I spent months trying to make the Denon work and thought I have nothing to lose with the Emotiva return policy. Ask me if they are going back? Wait until you get the XPA-3, it is going to be a monster, and the XPA-2 will make it look small. By the way the sale ends today but you can reserve and XPA-2 without buying one I you are on the fence. Congratulations on your purchase and you should have never looked.

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By the way---what did you use for cables to connect the Denon?

Basic RCA cables; male to male. Emotiva has some if you need them but most of us have some of these hiding somewhere. Use trigger 1 one the back of your amp to power your amp. These amps are going to BLOW YOUR MIND. It was a huge jump in sonic refinement for my speakers now that they are getting the power they need.
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post #4588 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 05:53 AM
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Originally Posted by kjgarrison View Post

I do have a backup but have only ever done that sort of thing over the network. Are you saying I can do this with a flash drive?

I do not see why not? I have never done it but you would need to use the small screen on the front as your guide. I hope you an get the network up long enough or try to use a computer with an Ethernet cable between you and the Denon to see if that would work. Let me know if either of these work since this is only a theory?
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post #4589 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 06:02 AM
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Originally Posted by knoxtn View Post

Very interesting. Curious as to why not leave the surrounds on the Denon? Also--how do those Emotiva's sound compared to Denon ??

It's funny you ask. I was going to use the XPA-3 to power the 2 studio 100 front and the CC-690 center but I wanted to run each speaker with enough power to generate headroom. The 200 watts were fine for the center that could handle 250 watts but I felt the studio's wanted something closer to their 350 watt max. If there was an option for 2 channels at 300 and one at 200 I would have trusted the Denon for the rears only. It all came down to wanting the XPA-2 to power my fronts. In that scenario, the Denon would need to power the center and the rears. I spent about $10k over the last few months so what the hell was another $539 amp that would power my center perfectly and provide all the power I would ever need for my surrounds. In my mind, I came this far so why stop short? It also opens me up for a pre amp purchase down the road when it comes time to replace my Denon.

How do those Emotiva's sound compared to Denon? The Emotiva does not color the sound and change the sound quality in any way, it just provides the speakers with so much power that they can finally give me ALL of the detail I was missing by starving them. I listened to all of the same tracks I listen to now like Diana Krall, Eagles, Tom Petty and I feel like I am listening to someone else s system? The detail, the refinement, the headroom, and all of the new sounds I was missing at reference are amazing. I was not sure what to expect when I jumped in feet first but this is a real treat!
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post #4590 of 5101 Old 07-18-2010, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

I do not see why not? I have never done it but you would need to use the small screen on the front as your guide. I hope you an get the network up long enough or try to use a computer with an Ethernet cable between you and the Denon to see if that would work. Let me know if either of these work since this is only a theory?

I appreciate your help. You seem to be the go to DenonGuy.

I cannot connect over a network of any kind. I have a wired network, and when an ethernet cable is plugged in the Denon network info shows "wired". When it is unplugged it shows "wireless".

In either case the network setup option does absolutely nothing. No subsequent screens to setup anything. No little right arrow to indicate that there's more to do.

The network info choice shows DHCP on, and sometimes an IP of 192.168.0.1, and the MAC address.

This IP is out of the range I can select with my router which is set up as DHCP with assigned IPs for all of the previously static IPs.

I can't access or ping this IP with my browser either.

I haven't tried the idea of putting the previous settings on a USB drive. I just can't see how that would work when the only thing in the Denon manual about such drives applies to playing media.

Like I said in my original post I have tried numerous small button resets and a couple of microprocessor resets as well.

I do appreciate your help, though, and from previous posts of yours I hold out little hope that my call to Denon support tomorrow will be any more helpful.
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