The "Official" Denon 4308ci Owners Thread - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by erikk View Post

Well that sucks. Is this a limitation of the PS3 that people believe will be solved with a software update?

It doesn't really suck.. decoding inside a player should sound no different than doing it inside the receiver...

And most people are going to find that DTS-HD MA doesn't sound that much better than the core tracks they are getting now...

These "issues" about 1.3, lossless codecs and bitstreams are going to confuse a lot of people, as is apparent here and on the Onkyo threads.. HDMI 1.3, in regards to audio and video from BR, HD-DVD and OTA or Sat HD, will bring no better audio or video quality than is available with HDMI 1.1 or 1.2.. there is nothing that sucks in letting the players do the hard work.
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post #152 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 07:03 PM
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Originally Posted by DolfanJay View Post

These are the things that have me sitting on the fence right now.

-Nobody has actually been able to test the decoding in this first generation of HDMI 1.3 receivers. There are no source components right now that will send a bitstream of the new audio formats. I'm hoping the next generation players that come out this fall are going to be able to do this.

-Then many people also are saying that its never going to happen because of advanced content having to be decoded at the source and sent out as LPCM.

I cant wait till Fall hopefully all this stuff with the new formats will fall into place and I can make a more informed buying decision. Worst case though you get stuck with a great receiver that handles all the new formats as LPCM. As long as players always support decoding which it seems likely they will.

Reading these threads though is making me want to jump now.

There is no reason to think the decoding inside these products will be lacking in any way... it appears the Denon will post process all decoded signals.

In regards to advanced content.. think of the following case.. Let's say you are watching a PIP commentary and switch it on and off (like on the HD DVD of Fast and Furious 3).. how does the receiver know you have done that and that it is supposed to then mix the secondary audio in with the main feature...

It really surprises me that the HDMI org didn't work to set up a standard for both data transmission and metadata control into their spec.. that would've been something.

Even though 1.3 doesn't add beneficial functionality in a lot of circumstances, it reiterates the beautify of the new paradigm with HD optical and streamed delivery... you can worry about replacing the transport and not the receiver, and that will almost always save you money in the long run.

Outside of the decoding features in these products, they offer great video processing, slick UI, features galore, wired and wireless connectivity and outstanding bang for the buck.. I can't imagine not jumping in to the fray with these units
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post #153 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 07:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

There is no reason to think the decoding inside these products will be lacking in any way... it appears the Denon will post process all decoded signals.

In regards to advanced content.. think of the following case.. Let's say you are watching a PIP commentary and switch it on and off (like on the HD DVD of Fast and Furious 3).. how does the receiver know you have done that and that it is supposed to then mix the secondary audio in with the main feature...

It really surprises me that the HDMI org didn't work to set up a standard for both data transmission and metadata control into their spec.. that would've been something.

Even though 1.3 doesn't add beneficial functionality in a lot of circumstances, it reiterates the beautify of the new paradigm with HD optical and streamed delivery... you can worry about replacing the transport and not the receiver, and that will almost always save you money in the long run.

Outside of the decoding features in these products, they offer great video processing, slick UI, features galore, wired and wireless connectivity and outstanding bang for the buck.. I can't imagine not jumping in to the fray with these units

I'm thinking the same thing about jumping into the fray!

I've been holding out because it seems there are several good products coming out right now in the Denon's and and the Onkyo's. Because of the Reon chip in the Onkyo lines I'm leaning heavily towards the Integra 9.8 pre/pro myself but I think the Denon's or the Onkyo's provide exactlywhat you said... I doubt you can go wrong with any of them.
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post #154 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 07:22 PM
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Hi guys,

First: Thanks for taking the time to report back on your experiences thus far.

Second: Now that you owners have been pushing buttons and playing with the new machines for a couple days, how is that remote working out? I remember a few early reports that it would take some getting used to.

I ask because those remotes stand out as a slightly risky business decision. I guess it's easier if I ask direct questions...

Is it in fact a touchscreen?
Does the touchscreen work?
Is there lag/delay like old LCD screen remotes?
Is the menu structure on the face intuitive?
Any reports of a spouse successfully picking it up and getting it to perform the intended task? (as if any of you would let them touch it this soon - lol)

Sadly, I need a new AV receiver that not only kicks ass, but is something my wife can actually turn on and use (basic functionality) without getting frustrated.

Thanks in advance.
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post #155 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 07:35 PM
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Well since the PS3 apparently doesn't do the hard work on DTS-HD it would be nice if it output the bitstream for something else to do it. Seeing as how I'm going from a pre-HDMI receiver to the current SotA I'm not too concerned with whether 1.3 is better than 1.2 or 1.1 since I don't have any of them.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure I couldn't tell DTS-HD Master, from DTS-HD, from DTS-HD Core, from old-school DTS but it's always a let-down when new stuff doesn't do the latest and greatest the way you think it should.

Erik

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post #156 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 07:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

There is no reason to think the decoding inside these products will be lacking in any way... it appears the Denon will post process all decoded signals.

In regards to advanced content.. think of the following case.. Let's say you are watching a PIP commentary and switch it on and off (like on the HD DVD of Fast and Furious 3).. how does the receiver know you have done that and that it is supposed to then mix the secondary audio in with the main feature...

It really surprises me that the HDMI org didn't work to set up a standard for both data transmission and metadata control into their spec.. that would've been something.

Even though 1.3 doesn't add beneficial functionality in a lot of circumstances, it reiterates the beautify of the new paradigm with HD optical and streamed delivery... you can worry about replacing the transport and not the receiver, and that will almost always save you money in the long run.

Outside of the decoding features in these products, they offer great video processing, slick UI, features galore, wired and wireless connectivity and outstanding bang for the buck.. I can't imagine not jumping in to the fray with these units

Be that as it may:

People who are buying these 805,875,4308 etc. etc. are gonna be mighty pissed if the next gen bluray players come out but for some unforeseen reason their new receiver wont decode the bitstream if available to them. People like to read TruHD and the like on the displays of their receivers.

I understand theoretically it should not make a difference.
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post #157 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolfanJay View Post

Be that as it may:

People who are buying these 805,875,4308 etc. etc. are gonna be mighty pissed if the next gen bluray players come out but for some unforeseen reason their new receiver wont decode the bitstream if available to them. People like to read TruHD and the like on the displays of their receivers.

I understand theoretically it should not make a difference.


And be that as it may, there will be no reason that content authored in basic and a compatible player and receiver won't talk together.. the issues will be with format specs and authoring. The THD and DTS-HD MA logos should account for that kind of compatibility.

It's going to be a big "IF" because of advanced and interactive authoring techniques.. people are going to have to get over not having the indicators on their receivers light up.. and it's going to confuse the hell out of them when it is on sometimes and not others.. if you look here, there are already people who are confused about it with vanilla DD and the PS3.
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post #158 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StressPuppy View Post

How's the switching using HDMI? You reported some info earlier. Is any of this an issue for you? The local dealer is kind of against HDMI because of the protection stuff and the possibility that things may not communicate together well. But having one cable is CERTAINLY a benefit. I have gear in two cabinets (basically one on each side of the fireplace - think yours mirrored) so the less stuff I have to run the better!

I have had absolutely zero issues with HDMI switching. I find no need to run any other output cables from the 4308 to my plasma. I have additional direct cables from my ReplayTV and DirecTV boxes going into the plasma, but that is mainly so we can watch basic TV stuff without turning on the Amp.
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post #159 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DolfanJay View Post

Be that as it may:

People who are buying these 805,875,4308 etc. etc. are gonna be mighty pissed if the next gen bluray players come out but for some unforeseen reason their new receiver wont decode the bitstream if available to them. People like to read TruHD and the like on the displays of their receivers.

I understand theoretically it should not make a difference.

Are you saying people will be pissed just because the little light on the receiver doesn't turn on? Because that is the only thing they are missing. The new Denon Blu-ray players (and I am sure future maodels from all companies) will both send bitstream out to the receivers if the user wants the receiver to do the decoding. But in all truth there will be no SQ difference between having the player do it or having the receiver do it. You just get the little light But, like many have said, when it comes to the advance TrueHD etc the players will probably end up doing all the work anyway if the user wants to use the extras. So in the end people will get their fancy light if they want it, just not when using some of the extra features. Once everyone understand this they will just live with the players doing the decoding. If the companies were smart they would just put the little fancy light on the players themselves and everyone would be happy! Well, maybe not PS3 owners.

The marketing of HDMI1.3 receivers has done nothing but confused most comsumers into thiking they need a new receiver when in fact their HDMI 1.1 are just fine. The only reason I am buying a new HDMI 1.3 receiver is because those are the ones with more HDMI inputs. If the olders ones had 4+ inputs I would buy one of those instead.
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post #160 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces_Over_Kings View Post

Hi guys,

First: Thanks for taking the time to report back on your experiences thus far.

Second: Now that you owners have been pushing buttons and playing with the new machines for a couple days, how is that remote working out? I remember a few early reports that it would take some getting used to.

I ask because those remotes stand out as a slightly risky business decision. I guess it's easier if I ask direct questions...

Is it in fact a touchscreen?
Does the touchscreen work?
Is there lag/delay like old LCD screen remotes?
Is the menu structure on the face intuitive?
Any reports of a spouse successfully picking it up and getting it to perform the intended task? (as if any of you would let them touch it this soon - lol)

Sadly, I need a new AV receiver that not only kicks ass, but is something my wife can actually turn on and use (basic functionality) without getting frustrated.

Thanks in advance.

Save yourself a headache and buy her a Harmony remote. Program it to do all of the basic functions and she will be happy. I recommend the one with the activites buttons right at the top. That way she only has to push one button to do what ever she wants. Then you can use what ever remote you want.
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post #161 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

And be that as it may, there will be no reason that content authored in basic and a compatible player and receiver won't talk together.. the issues will be with format specs and authoring. The THD and DTS-HD MA logos should account for that kind of compatibility.

That's very true. If these companies are not careful and these logos continue to proliferate (and often don't work properly) consumers will start to believe that it's all just marketing. Well, of course it mostly is but they'll actually begin to understand that!

Then what? We'll end up with just that one Dolby light again.
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post #162 of 5102 Old 07-29-2007, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aces_Over_Kings View Post

Hi guys,

First: Thanks for taking the time to report back on your experiences thus far.

Second: Now that you owners have been pushing buttons and playing with the new machines for a couple days, how is that remote working out? I remember a few early reports that it would take some getting used to.

I ask because those remotes stand out as a slightly risky business decision. I guess it's easier if I ask direct questions...

Is it in fact a touchscreen?
Does the touchscreen work?
Is there lag/delay like old LCD screen remotes?
Is the menu structure on the face intuitive?
Any reports of a spouse successfully picking it up and getting it to perform the intended task? (as if any of you would let them touch it this soon - lol)

Sadly, I need a new AV receiver that not only kicks ass, but is something my wife can actually turn on and use (basic functionality) without getting frustrated.

Thanks in advance.

I'm probably the one that mentioned that I was having trouble getting used to it. I like it a bit better now, but I have decided to program all of the functions that I need into my MX-950 remote. For your specific questions though:

-> Yes it is a touch screen
-> The touchscreen does work, although it take a pretty deliberate push.
-> Actually, its not an LCD touch screen at all. I don't exactly know what technology they used for it. It has icons at the top area of the touch screen for your different sources. The bottom area of the touch screen is made up of an array of 12 buttons. The labels for those buttons change depending on what function you are performing.
-> It was not intuitive (for me) with my first few sessions with this remote. I have been playing with it so much this weekend, I am now getting used to the menu structure.
-> My wife can do basic stuff with it - turn the 4308 on and navigate around with the arrow buttons. Since we have many different sources (that need on/off, input switching, etc), I found it easier for me to program macros into my MX-950 for her. I have not yet tested the programming capability of the 4308's remote. Maybe one of the other new owners can chime in on this.
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post #163 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 04:35 PM
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Hello All
Does anyone who now has the 4308 have experience with the old THX-Ultra model from 2001 ?
It was the AVR-5800 in USA and the AVC-A1SE in UK. I have this and it`s time to upgrade and I`m looking for opinions on how the 4308 would compare. Would 6 years of technical advancement make the 4308 sound as good even though it`s quite a bit cheaper or will I have to splash the cash and wait for the 5308 beast ?
Does the 4308 have any processing to give you 7.1 sound through HDMI and PCM or is it only THX models that provide 7.1 ? I don`t really want 2 back speakers doing nothing.
Thanks very much for any comments.
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post #164 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 05:47 PM
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Do all of you 4308 owners have to work for a living or something? It has been 20 hours since any of you chimed in. Come on!!!
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post #165 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:03 PM
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No kidding!!! I put in a preorder at listenup.com for the 4308, which should be shipping this week and am going to cancel an order for the 4308 from another online retailer that I found some stuff out about which got me a bit worried.

Anyway, I've been dropping in on this thread throughout the day to learn some more things and nothing!
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post #166 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:25 PM
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OK, I've been trying to get my 4308CI to work with my Apple WiFi router with no luck. It seems no matter what I do, it can initially see the network but can not join if any security at all is enabled, and with no security it can join but then doesn't seem to get an IP from the DHCP server. If I enter an IP manually, still fails. My test is to try a firmware update once I think I'm online and it never works. Any thoughts? I've read page 33 of the most pathetic manual. Surely there's more information out there on how to set up the WiFi. Has anyone else had success with getting online using Apple's WiFi routers?
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post #167 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:31 PM
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I would probably try another router, ie Linksys, etc. Go to Staples and buy one and try it out. If it doesn't work, take it back for your $. Been there done that!

Is there something special about the Apple router? Not familar with it.
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post #168 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:36 PM
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The aple router nothing special and very easy to work with. This is a situation that should be very easy for any wireless device. We took down the whole network where there is no security so this should be very easy to connect. It says it is connecting but everytime I try and download the firmware it reads failed.
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post #169 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:46 PM
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have you tried doing anything else? Streaming from your computer? Etc? Because there's probably no firmware update on the denon server (if the server is even set up at all yet) and depending on how the receiver has been set up by denon the error messages may not be very explanatory.

Erik

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post #170 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

OK, I've been trying to get my 4308CI to work with my Apple WiFi router with no luck. It seems no matter what I do, it can initially see the network but can not join if any security at all is enabled, and with no security it can join but then doesn't seem to get an IP from the DHCP server. If I enter an IP manually, still fails. My test is to try a firmware update once I think I'm online and it never works. Any thoughts? I've read page 33 of the most pathetic manual. Surely there's more information out there on how to set up the WiFi. Has anyone else had success with getting online using Apple's WiFi routers?

Hey DenonLover, I'm connected wired but I will disconnect from my switch, and see if I can get the wireless connection going later this evening. Maybe I can glean something that will help you out.

Struggling with a work-related Vista issue for another hour or two.
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post #171 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JBRhee View Post

Hmm, 1 - 2 second delay. Nothing too frustrating.

I have the AVR-5600 and the delay on that when switching between sources ranges from 2 to 5 seconds. DVRDude, were you the one that replaced an AVR-5600? Can you comment on the difference, if any, in source switching delay?

Thanks,
David
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post #172 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DavidPotter View Post

I have the AVR-5600 and the delay on that when switching between sources ranges from 2 to 5 seconds. DVRDude, were you the one that replaced an AVR-5600? Can you comment on the difference, if any, in source switching delay?

Thanks,
David

Yep, that was me. The source switching does not seem significantly different from the 5600. I decided to time the 4308 for you... Switching from DVR to Sat takes 3.7 sec. Not a problem at all for me.
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post #173 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by DVRDude View Post

Yep, that was me. The source switching does not seem significantly different from the 5600. I decided to time the 4308 for you... Switching from DVR to Sat takes 3.7 sec. Not a problem at all for me.

Bummer. My family finds the delay rather confusing and frustrating.
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post #174 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 09:03 PM
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I just picked up my 4308ci tonight!! I have not taken it out of the box yet, but I should be able to report tomorrow. My set-up is the following:

Receiver: Denon 4308ci
Display: Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Speakers: Klipsch, RF-35s, RC-35, RS-35x4, RSW-10
Sources: Sony DVP-CX777ES, PS3, XBOX 360 Elite and the Wii

Time to get to work!
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post #175 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 10:24 PM
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I got mine today, Walked into an Andersons TV and walked out with it. The guys told me that it was in stock for a week now. Anyhow my first opinions are that the sound quality over my 3805 is very noticeable. The 8 position mic (yes mine asked for 8 difernt locations) makes the music sound a lot better. When I say better I mean percise and not tinnie. I was getting eccoes in the room from souch a strange and funny angles of my walls. I realy liked my 3805 but this thing is why better sound quality wise.
Setup was a little tuff for me at first. I am not done by any means but after a while I got the hang of it. It is way more involved than the 3805 and way more controllable.
Vidio wise I cant coment much. I have never run my vidio through the reciver untill now. I do not see any difference in quality on any of my 3 HD sources. I did notice the menu offeres settings or each different source but I didnt play with them as the picture looked just as good as hooked up direct.
For you guys waiting for one, It is going to be well worth the wait. I love mine.
If I had to gripe about somthing, this thing runs hot.

Good luck to all and enjoy.
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post #176 of 5102 Old 07-30-2007, 10:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenonLover View Post

OK, I've been trying to get my 4308CI to work with my Apple WiFi router with no luck. It seems no matter what I do, it can initially see the network but can not join if any security at all is enabled, and with no security it can join but then doesn't seem to get an IP from the DHCP server. If I enter an IP manually, still fails. My test is to try a firmware update once I think I'm online and it never works. Any thoughts? I've read page 33 of the most pathetic manual. Surely there's more information out there on how to set up the WiFi. Has anyone else had success with getting online using Apple's WiFi routers?

DenonLover,

I just setup the wireless on the 4308. It asked to search for an Access Point, which I let it. After a few seconds, it discovered my Access Point and displayed my SSID and that I am using WEP. I selected my Access Point, entered in my Passphrase, and selected connect. It said "connecting" for a few seconds, and then displayed one of my available DHCP IPs. I browsed to that IP and got to the Web interface. No problems at all getting it setup. Might be something with your router.

BTW, I am using a D-Link Access Point
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post #177 of 5102 Old 07-31-2007, 12:04 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CARRAM View Post

Thanks Dvrdude for taking the trouble to reply.

No doubt when you get the internet radio connected you'll be giving your impressions on how good or otherwise it is.

Enjoy your machine - I envy you!

Thanks

Ron

Arrrgh...Cockpit Error!!! Internet Radio works great on the 4308ci. The reason that I could not get it working before is that I missed a digit when I put in my router IP in the receiver.

Once the initial connection is completed, a list of genre/stations is available in the GUI. You then go to the radiodenon.com site and login with your receiver's MAC address. From there you can create your own groups that will appear under your favorites. You then add stations to your favorites from the list. It looks like about 1800 stations are available. As you update your station choices on radiodenon.com, it pushes the changes to the 4308. I added a few 128Kb streams to my favorites, and they sound fantastic on the receiver.
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post #178 of 5102 Old 07-31-2007, 12:06 AM
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If anybody has the time would they mind posting the size of the box. Need to work out if it will fit in my car.

Many thanks

Ron
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post #179 of 5102 Old 07-31-2007, 12:32 AM
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I finally got my 2900 to work tonight with the 4308. It would not allow me to hook it up in the DVD area but all of the others areas seemed to work fine? I finally decided to hook it up to the AUX area. Other things worked in the DVD components; everything but the DVD? For the life of me I cannot understand what is wrong with the amp or what would keep it from working? Any ideas?
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post #180 of 5102 Old 07-31-2007, 12:40 AM
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Many thanks for answering my post John re: internet radio glad you got it working and are enjoying your machine.

Ron

PS. Tried to edit my previous post which I had submitted before I read you had replied, but have to admit I can't work it out - bummer
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