The "Official" Onkyo TX-NR905 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by stevesns69 View Post

Well I just jumped ship with _&_ with my preorder of the 875 and went with ABT for the good price. The downside is that I went from top 5 to 38th with ABT, but in the end I'll get the 905. The deal-breaker for me was not having the option to control picture quality with the 875. Not a very smart move on Onkyo's part, in my opinion. I originally put my order in May 10th, which meant nothing if I switched to the 905. I'm also sick of getting the run around by _&_. Every time I called them they would say, "they'll be in this week". I don't want to be lied to, I just want the truth. Go ahead and say it, "you can't handle the truth!!". I can't wait until mid-September!! Well, anyway here I come HD radio, internet radio, 2 HDMI outputs, and a big, bad transformer section. As for you lucky people that already have one and are getting one soon, keep the updates and pictures coming. It will make the time pass quicker with something to keep me away from the home theater.

What are you using for the HD radio? I thought you had to have a separte tuner for it to plug into the 905. I did buy a tuner for my xm radio.
Thanks for any info.

Al
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post #182 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:27 PM
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BTW I ordered some HDMI cables from Monoprice.com and the shipping and price are excellent. I can't believe the prices and the cables look great. I recieved the via USPS priority and they shipped the same day.

FWIW.

Al
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post #183 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

What are you using for the HD radio? I thought you had to have a separte tuner for it to plug into the 905. I did buy a tuner for my xm radio.
Thanks for any info.

Al


HD radio is free, you just use an antenna and grab it out of the air like FM or AM. It's not like XM where you pay a monthly fee. It is local, so you do have commercials like regular radio. I've never had it, but it's supposed to be closer to CD quality and less static. Also, I think it tells you the song title and artist on the screen. I guess I'll find out in September. I may not use it much, but it's there, so I'll use it once in a while.
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post #184 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

BTW I ordered some HDMI cables from Monoprice.com and the shipping and price are excellent. I can't believe the prices and the cables look great. I recieved the via USPS priority and they shipped the same day.

FWIW.

Al

Once you go monoprice you never go back.
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post #185 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:37 PM
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NewOrlnsDukie,

If you read your own post, you will figure out the chances of them getting 80 of the 905 tomorrow:

"For example, with the 875, the CSR told me today that they've ordered 120 875's -- that's almost $150,000 worth of orders for one item from one vendor. You would think that, with that level of purchasing, the retailer would have a trustworthy Onkyo rep that could give them some semblance of a clue for ETA's."

You are number 10 on the 875 list? And they have 120 on order? And you don't have it yet?

Don't count on them them getting 80 of 905 in tomorrow. Or next week. Or next month.

I hope I am wrong because I am around number 12 on the 875 list, and just put in an order for the 905 on Saturday. I would rather have the 905, but not if it means getting it in 2009....
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post #186 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

BTW I ordered some HDMI cables from Monoprice.com and the shipping and price are excellent. I can't believe the prices and the cables look great. I recieved the via USPS priority and they shipped the same day.

FWIW.

Al

are they category 2 cables? i.e 1.3a spec.?
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post #187 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jcp2 View Post

are they category 2 cables? i.e 1.3a spec.?

Thank you for asking that. They are not (they are 1.2a) as they are not in stock until end of August.

I didn't think to check that as I am new ato the HDMI area. I am upgrading from component outs and inputs and I knew about the 1.3.

Will they work at all?

Thanks

Al
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post #188 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdick View Post

NewOrlnsDukie,

If you read your own post, you will figure out the chances of them getting 80 of the 905 tomorrow:

"For example, with the 875, the CSR told me today that they've ordered 120 875's -- that's almost $150,000 worth of orders for one item from one vendor. You would think that, with that level of purchasing, the retailer would have a trustworthy Onkyo rep that could give them some semblance of a clue for ETA's."

You are number 10 on the 875 list? And they have 120 on order? And you don't have it yet?

Don't count on them them getting 80 of 905 in tomorrow. Or next week. Or next month.

I hope I am wrong because I am around number 12 on the 875 list, and just put in an order for the 905 on Saturday. I would rather have the 905, but not if it means getting it in 2009....


Yeah, logic would dictate that it was an unlikely prospect.

Just to be sure though, I just called my official J&R CSR for my 875 preorder to try to get an idea on the 875/905 issue, and he told me that he had just pulled up my order on the screen to process it, b/c my 875 is shipping out TODAY!!

O HAPPY DAY!

Forgive the sidetrack, 905-ites -- I will now [Mike]fade into Bolivian [/Tyson] on the 875 thread.
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post #189 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by cuibap View Post

I'm not happy with j&r either since they don't even know when they'll have it but at least customer service is good so I decided to wait.

If your idea of good customer service is lying to the customer and telling them anything they want to hear to keep them from cancelling then stick with J&R. As I read through many of the threads here in the Receiver subforum, it is quite apparent from the other members that J&R is highly deceptive in their sales.

I agree that VE has to improve their email response system but its a small, owner-owned and operated store. If they hired more people to answer email--and this situation with the Onkyo's is not typical of them--their pricing would have to be alot higher.

I'll stick with VE as they've always been honest and straightforward with the AVS Forum and the owner, Robert Zohn has fought for many firmware upgrades that the members have wanted from Toshiba on their HD-DVD players.
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post #190 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

BTW I ordered some HDMI cables from Monoprice.com and the shipping and price are excellent. I can't believe the prices and the cables look great. I recieved the via USPS priority and they shipped the same day.

FWIW.

Al

Just keep in mind that the Monoprice HDMI cables are only 1.2 HDMI certified not 1.3 HDMI certified. They plan to offer 1.3 HDMI cables soon according to other posters. The bandwidth requirements for 1.3 HDMI are alot higher if you want to pass the non-lossy audio formats that should be available over HDMI from the HD-DVD and Blu Ray manufacturers this fall. Higher bandwidth for 1080p60 with deep color option is also needed.

--Just saw your post above. I'm a big fan of Monoprice and buy ALOT of stuff from them but I'm concerned about having 1.3 HDMI cables for my data path all the way to the receiver and then to my TV.

I see they have finally listed them as coming in soon at the bottom of this page:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10240&style=
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post #191 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:08 PM
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Robert at VE is definitely a "stand-up guy!"

I would give him the benefit of the doubt over J&R any day of the century.

Doesn't mean he will get them in first... just that he won't lie to you and will give you the best deal he can and excellent service after the sale.

(I admit his email response can be slow sometimes, but he is working for you!)

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post #192 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

Just keep in mind that the Monoprice HDMI cables are only 1.2 HDMI certified not 1.3 HDMI certified. They plan to offer 1.3 HDMI cables soon according to other posters. The bandwidth requirements for 1.3 HDMI are alot higher if you want to pass the non-lossy audio formats that should be available over HDMI from the HD-DVD and Blu Ray manufacturers this fall. Higher bandwidth for 1080p60 with deep color option is also needed.

--Just saw your post above. I'm a big fan of Monoprice and buy ALOT of stuff from them but I'm concerned about having 1.3 HDMI cables for my data path all the way to the receiver and then to my TV.

I see they have finally listed them as coming in soon at the bottom of this page:

http://www.monoprice.com/products/su...d=10240&style=

Thanks for the info.

I gues I'll just use these for now and get the new 1.3 versions later. These were so cheap it wouldn't pay to return them.
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post #193 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

Thanks for the info.

I gues I'll just use these for now and get the new 1.3 versions later. These were so cheap it wouldn't pay to return them.

I read in numerous places (AVS and others) that there is no such thing as "1.3 cable", that all HDMI cables are the same. What is the truth
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post #194 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overthehill View Post

Thank you for asking that. They are not (they are 1.2a) as they are not in stock until end of August.

I didn't think to check that as I am new ato the HDMI area. I am upgrading from component outs and inputs and I knew about the 1.3.

Will they work at all?

Thanks

Al

The 1.2's should be fine for up to 1080i. The question is how well will them work and for how long a length for 1080p24 or 1080p60 and the Dolby True HD and DTS HD-MASTER bitstreams that will be available from the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players coming out this fall. That's why Monoprice is going to offer the 1.3a cables to handle that much larger bandwidth.
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post #195 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:23 PM
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Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

If your idea of good customer service is lying to the customer and telling them anything they want to hear to keep them from cancelling then stick with J&R. As I read through many of the threads here in the Receiver subforum, it is quite apparent from the other members that J&R is highly deceptive in their sales.

I agree that VE has to improve their email response system but its a small, owner-owned and operated store. If they hired more people to answer email--and this situation with the Onkyo's is not typical of them--their pricing would have to be alot higher.

I'll stick with VE as they've always been honest and straightforward with the AVS Forum and the owner, Robert Zohn has fought for many firmware upgrades that the members have wanted from Toshiba on their HD-DVD players.

Right now, at least they answer their customer and are willing to lower the price from 1599 + 43 shipping to 1499 with free shipping (even though you can get it at ABT). As of now not many people getting the 905 anywhere anyway so it's not botherring me that much. Like I said, I don't like the fact that j&r doesn't know when the order comming in but in my book, they are still better than VE. I called VE office to cancel the order and the rep told me that it's cancelled. I emailed again to ask for confirmation but never get one until I emailed them again. I just don't have a good experience with them doesn't mean they're not good. I hope they improve their customer service.

BTW, few people in 875 thread start to get their 875 shipped out today from j&r so it is not that bad at all.
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post #196 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

The 1.2's should be fine for up to 1080i. The question is how well will them work and for how long a length for 1080p24 or 1080p60 and the Dolby True HD and DTS HD-MASTER bitstreams that will be available from the Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players coming out this fall. That's why Monoprice is going to offer the 1.3a cables to handle that much larger bandwidth.

I'm having a little trouble understanding how much more 'bandwidth' would be required for sending audio data via bitstream as opposed to LPCM. Why would the encoded bitstream require more data transfer than the unzipped LPCM that is currently available w/ TrueHD and our HD/BR players?

As for the 1080p issue -- I have a 35 foot monoprice HDMI cable that's done just fine for 1080p60.

OTOH, I would think that deep color, when available, may require more robust data transfer capability that might require a special 1.3 certification.
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post #197 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by dude2006 View Post

I read in numerous places (AVS and others) that there is no such thing as "1.3 cable", that all HDMI cables are the same. What is the truth

First-- before I get slammed for "hijacking" this thread--let me say that a few posts on cables is valid here as a lot of the folks are buying the 905 for its HDMI 1.3a capabilities.

Now, before I comment on your note-- let me say that you will get as many opinions for as you will against. The difference between the 1.2 and 1.3 cables is that the 1.3 cables have supposedly been tested to handle the much higher bandwidths. Does that mean that 1.2 cables of relatively short lengths (3-10 feet) wont handle it?--I think it really depends on the cable structure and components. Some users report "sparklies" due to bit drop outs at high bandwidth on some cables.

Here is a link to a paper and brochure on the HDMI.ORG website worth glancing at:

http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/whitepaper/S...aperv73(2).pdf

http://www.hdmi.org/pdf/HDMI_Insert_FINAL_8-30-06.pdf

Unfortunately until recently independent testing and evaluation reports of cables hasn't been something that has drawn alot of interest from the testing community. (Definitely not as "sexy" as testing video processor chips! But there is a new effort starting up to test cables:

http://www.cepro.com/article/new_pro...i_is_on_board/

Whether all the major manufacturers will submit their cables for testing remains to be seen.

I would certainly like to see the difference in core construction though between Monoprice's 1.2 and 1.3 cables. Here is the spec sheet on the 1.2 cables:

http://www.monoprice.com/drawing/HDMI24TC.pdf

There is no spec sheet yet on the 1.3 cables. But in looking at the 1.3 specs, the 1.2 cables are tinned copper while the 1.3 are silver-plated copper.

As to the above comment about LPCM-- in that format you do NOT need 1.3. However, I'm not a EE so I'll have to leave it to someone else to explain the differences between LPCM and BITSTREAM versions of the lossless HD formats. BITSTREAM which can be handled by the 905 I believe requires the higher bandwidth.

From the HDMI.ORG FAQ's:

Q. What's new in the HDMI 1.3 Specification?

New HD lossless audio formats: In addition to HDMI's current ability to support high-bandwidth uncompressed digital audio and all currently-available compressed formats (such as Dolby® Digital and DTS®), HDMI 1.3 adds additional support for new lossless compressed digital audio formats Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio.

Q. Do I need v1.3 HDMI to hear the new Dolby TrueHD and DTS Master HD audio content on HD-DVD or Blu-ray players?

No. The Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus, and DTS-HD Master Audio can be decoded by the playback device into multi-channel Pulse Code Modulation (PCM) digital audio streams, which is an audio format standard that can be sent over any version of HDMI. In fact, all versions of HDMI can support up to 8 channels of PCM audio at 192kHz, 24 bits per sample.

To do this, consumers should ensure that their playback device (such as HD-DVD or Blu-ray player) is capable of decoding these new lossless Dolby & DTS audio formats into the PCM format on the HDMI output, and that the audio device (such as an A/V receiver) is capable of receiving multi-channel PCM audio over the HDMI inputs. Consult your user manual/product specification sheet to determine whether your device supports such PCM capabilities (we believe that nearly all HD-DVD and Blu-ray players will, but users should confirm this). Devices that support HDMI v1.3 and higher may also offer the option to transport the high definition audio formats as a compressed, encoded stream over HDMI so that the decoding function can be performed by the A/V receiver (whereas the above transport method has the playback device performing the decoding).
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post #198 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:35 PM
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I just got off the phone with my J&R rep. He basically came clean (somewhat) on what is happening:

They have gotten some 875s in black, but only a few to cover very early pre-orders. They are waiting on a big shipment of 875s and 905s that should be in by the end of August or early September. Realistically, they will not get all they asked for, so unless you are early on the pre-order list, you might not even get it when that shipment comes in...

They did have some 875 in silver, so I canceled my black 875 and my black 905 orders and went with the silver 875. Therefore, I am off to the 875 forum...
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post #199 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 02:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjdick View Post

I just got off the phone with my J&R rep. He basically came clean (somewhat) on what is happening:

They have gotten some 875s in black, but only a few to cover very early pre-orders. They are waiting on a big shipment of 875s and 905s that should be in by the end of August or early September. Realistically, they will not get all they asked for, so unless you are early on the pre-order list, you might not even get it when that shipment comes in...

They did have some 875 in silver, so I canceled my black 875 and my black 905 orders and went with the silver 875. Therefore, I am off to the 875 forum...

Did you see an earlier post that claimed that the entire production run of 905's was sold out and that Onkyo needs to initiate another manufacturing run? I'm wondering if this is true (perhaps egcarter can confirm one way or the other) and if it is-- does that mean that we wont see more 905's until Oct? I hope its not like the automobile industry that takes awhile to get all the parts and tool up when they change models on the assembly line.

Everyone is so angry at the dealers for being off on their estimates and it will only get worse if there is a long production delay.
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post #200 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:12 PM
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borgcube - This whole situation reminds me of when I went to the local Honda dealer to look at the Honda Fit. The salesman said "We really don't have any in stock since they are usually sold the day they come in" - "Come back tomorrow or next week". "Wouldn't you like to check out a Civic or Accord - we have lots of them". NO.

The HDMI cable stuff reminds me of when USB 2.0 came out and all the salesmen were telling everyone that you needed a "genuine" 2.0 cable for your 2.0 device. The old 1.1 cables worked like a charm!
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post #201 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:20 PM
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Thx for all the great info borg.cube

Am I correct in assuming the only major concern with hdmi cable handling 1080p + lossless audio is when longer cable runs are necessary?

I wonder how long until we see these "ranked" hdmi cables.
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post #202 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:23 PM
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I don't believe for a minute that high quality HDMI cables out now won't handle 1.3 just fine....except for possibly longer runs (more than 15-20 feet). It is all marketing fluff.

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post #203 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Dognit View Post

Thx for all the great info borg.cube

Am I correct in assuming the only major concern with hdmi cable handling 1080p + lossless audio is when longer cable runs are necessary?

I wonder how long until we see these "ranked" hdmi cables.

Well-- the HDMI.ORG and the cable manufacturers would say 1.3 cables are needed for 1080p and lossless BITSTREAM audio regardless of length...however most of the AVS forum members would say only for long lengths. My suggestion is try them and if you see image artifacts return them. I don't know whether you could hear some bit drop dropouts from BITSTREAM lossless (although I know there are AVS forum member who can hear EACH INDIVIDUAL BIT of audio!
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post #204 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Emissary52 View Post

borgcube - This whole situation reminds me of when I went to the local Honda dealer to look at the Honda Fit. The salesman said "We really don't have any in stock since they are usually sold the day they come in" - "Come back tomorrow or next week". "Wouldn't you like to check out a Civic or Accord - we have lots of them". NO.

The HDMI cable stuff reminds me of when USB 2.0 came out and all the salesmen were telling everyone that you needed a "genuine" 2.0 cable for your 2.0 device. The old 1.1 cables worked like a charm!

I would agree with you. If you don't see video dropouts (and who could tell anyway with all the pixelation I get with digital COMCAST) and don't hear sound distortion what does it matter?
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post #205 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

I would agree with you. If you don't see video dropouts (and who could tell anyway with all the pixelation I get with digital COMCAST) and don't hear sound distortion what does it matter?

Speaking of cables, I reported that pixelation issue to Comcast three times. They finally sent out a tech that replaced all my cable line with a much thicker cable and it reduced my issue dramatically. Now I only get it on the HD CW station which I assume is that channel's probelm not my hookup.
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post #206 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by borg.cube View Post

Well-- the HDMI.ORG and the cable manufacturers would say 1.3 cables are needed for 1080p and lossless BITSTREAM audio regardless of length.

It's kinda hard to believe the recommendations given by those with a vested interest
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post #207 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by w0lver View Post

Speaking of cables, I reported that pixelation issue to Comcast three times. They finally sent out a tech that replaced all my cable line with a much thicker cable and it reduced my issue dramatically. Now I only get it on the HD CW station which I assume is that channel's probelm not my hookup.

Unfortunately I live in a condo building where the COMCAST cables were put in by the builder from a central room when the building was built 3 years ago. They couldn't pull new cable if they wanted to. I get pixelation all the time on HD channels along with sound dropouts.
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post #208 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Dognit View Post

It's kinda hard to believe the recommendations given by those with a vested interest

I have alot of faith in MONOPRICE cables and even they have decided to offer 1.3a cables-- at least theirs will be pretty inexpensive... I think you're mostly paying for the silver!
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post #209 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 04:17 PM
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lorelevitt - Monoprice cables are a good buy. I still think that unless you have a need for cables longer than 25 feet or so the old stuff will produce acceptable results. No matter what they're made of, the laws of physics still apply and impedance rears its ugly head the longer they are. Like Scotty said "I can't change the laws of physics Captain". I want my 905 so I'll guess I'll have to part with a few slips of gold-pressed latinum soon.

Borg.cube - Spend too much on those new cables and the Borg Queen will relegate you to 99 of 100!
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post #210 of 8820 Old 08-06-2007, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by slimoli View Post

For the guys with the 905, how hot does it get ? I have to put it inside a cabinet with the back open. I have now a Pioneer 74 which doesn't get very hot but I'm afraid the 905 can be a bitch to refrigerate.

Thanks

sergio


Anybody?

Standard Definition Causes Lung Cancer, Heart Disease, Emphysema, And May Complicate Pregnancy
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