Yamaha RX-Z11 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The long-awaited Yamaha RX-Z11 will arrive in October at around a $5000 list price. It will feature HDMI 1.3a with deep color (30/36 bit) along with upcoversion of all video inputs to 1080p and downconversion to 480p. It will carry onboard amps for 11.2 surround sound with a total of 1180W of power (140x7) + (50Wx4) for 4 assignable presence speakers. These could also work for other zones. It will be a "Network capable" receiver and is compatible with Windows Vista and Media Player 11. It will include onboard HD Radio and can receive XM with an available dock; an IPOD connection with an optional dock is also included. It uses Burr-Brown DSD1796 DAC's . It is massive, weighing just under 80 pounds (the power transformer is 22 pounds itself). It has a remote control that lights up on its own with movement. It appears to include all of the latest surround formats, and a host of other music/video and game formats as well. It meets THX Ultra II Plus.

On balance, it looks like a nice piece; I am uncertain though about the onboard scaler. The only information I got was that it is made by "Anchor Bay Technologies". I'd appreciate some update on that if anyone knows about it.

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post #2 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 12:06 PM
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Please post a link to your information source, if possible.

There's a lot of interest in this ( more window shoppers than buyers I imagine.)

What's interesting to me, is the price. I would have guessed no more than $4000. I expect the MSRP has a lot of store profit built into it.

"But this one goes up to 11"
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post #3 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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As I am interested in getting one (I presently own an older DSP-A1), I saw a press release sent to my dealer by Yamaha. There is no link or source beyond that for now; sorry.

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post #4 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 12:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Anchor Bay Technologies produces the DVDO line of scalers and video processors; I guess that indicates how "good" the one in the RX-Z11 will be. Any thoughts?

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post #5 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 02:45 PM
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the ABT scaler in the Yamaha 2700 worked flawlessly when I used it.........the one in the Z11 would be a superior version (upscale to 1080p etc).
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post #6 of 2622 Old 08-03-2007, 08:30 PM
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I wonder if they will include a firewire connection like on the Z9 that I use for SACD and DVD Audio and it sounds fantastic. Hey I came across this news release just when many here felt firewire was dead to make room for HDMI to transmit high resolution audio that so many of us have. Sony and Toshiba are backing firewire more in future products.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/news...l.php?id=13826

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post #7 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 03:20 AM
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Does that mean the Z11 only has 140 W for the main speakers? In this price range I would have expected more.
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post #8 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 06:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCFreak View Post

Does that mean the Z11 only has 140 W for the main speakers? In this price range I would have expected more.

It has 140W for EACH of the 7 main speakers and 50W/channel for the 4 "presence speakers. The unit has a total of 1,180W, which is a LOT of power by ANY standards.

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post #9 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 06:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troytn View Post

I wonder if they will include a firewire connection like on the Z9 that I use for SACD and DVD Audio and it sounds fantastic. Hey I came across this news release just when many here felt firewire was dead to make room for HDMI to transmit high resolution audio that so many of us have. Sony and Toshiba are backing firewire more in future products.

http://www.widescreenreview.com/news...l.php?id=13826

I see no mention of a firewire connection. It has USB, HDMI and RS-232C inputs, with the HDMI and USB having front panel access as well.

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post #10 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docray1 View Post

I see no mention of a firewire connection. It has USB, HDMI and RS-232C inputs, with the HDMI and USB having front panel access as well.


1394/Firewire capability has already been dropped from the majority of the latest flagship AVRs.. Instead HDMI 1.3 is being used..

1394 is a good feature but too expensive to implement, and little or no source players include this..

Also note the RZ11 does provide an ethernet connection..
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post #11 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 07:31 AM
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images of the press release are here: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post11201844 on the anticipation thread. I have a source for the PDFs but haven't received them yet. I'll post when I get them.
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post #12 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 08:44 AM
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post #13 of 2622 Old 08-04-2007, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireshoes View Post

RX-Z11

Apparently that link only works for members. Here's one that works for everyone:

RX-Z11 New Product Bulletin
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post #14 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 03:10 AM
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Okay, the $64000 question. This receiver with all the latest bells & whistles & groovyness, maybe with a proper 7channel power amp, OR better to go for your normal Rotel/Nad/Arcam pre-pro & amp setup?
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post #15 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 10:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dotVIBE View Post

Okay, the $64000 question. This receiver with all the latest bells & whistles & groovyness, maybe with a proper 7channel power amp, OR better to go for your normal Rotel/Nad/Arcam pre-pro & amp setup?

Depends on what you're after. This looks to be an exceptional piece with improvements that are geared to sound quality as well as added features over the Z9, which was an excellent sounding unit. The only concern to me is that they added more amplification channels in an already crowded chassis - probably the reason for dual fans. Still this should be an exceptional sounding unit. I think a two or three channel amp for your mains might suffice, that's what I did with the Z9 and really I didn't need to.
It's also good to see that they advanced the YPAO again to include multiple positions, it will be interesting to see how that performs. The second gen YPAO was better than the first but not as good as the Audyssey - maybe this gen will be?
If you've got a big HT with a large projection screen, the presence speakers in the upper front really do work well to enlarge the soundstage to the screen size, and gives it the ability to do the "dialogue lift". It remains to be heard what adding rear "presence" speaker to the mix will do but I doubt it could hurt.
Would it be better to go for separates? I doubt it unless you're going into stratospheric priced stuff, it should hold it's own against mid to upper-mid priced separates quite easily and might even best a few.
It will boil down to personal taste and needs.
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post #16 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 12:26 PM
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I wonder what the Canadian list price will be for this and when it is coming out. I am interested in several units including the Yamaha Z-11, RX-V4800 and the Denon 4308,5308.
I don't know any details on the 4800 yet and the only price I have is $2970 for the 4308. It is nice that Denon Canada has shown restraint and a more close to US$ mark-up (approx 19% mark-up from US price vs. 40% mark-up on the Denon 4306).
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post #17 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M Code View Post

1394/Firewire capability has already been dropped from the majority of the latest flagship AVRs.. Instead HDMI 1.3 is being used..

1394 is a good feature but too expensive to implement, and little or no source players include this..

Also note the RZ11 does provide an ethernet connection..


So how will SACD and DVD audio be transmitted digitally if there is not a single player out there that will transmit these high resolution formats over HDMI?

The Z11 literature talks about an added Digital DIRECT mode for digital transmission of these formats via HDMI only. Does this mean a player like my Pioneer dvd59avi that currently transmits SACD and dvd audio digitally via firewire will also transmit via HDMI? My guess is NO.

Its the dvd player that needs the dvd audio/SACD transmission (decoder) first before the Z11 can accept them correct? Which means there is not a single dvd player anywhere that someone could hook up to the new Z11 and transmit digital dvd audio/SACD over HDMI?

Its a shame they did not include a firewire connection for this. Its back to using the analog outputs of my Pioneer 59avi player for high resolution music if I get the Z11. Bummer. I know dvd audio/sacd is about dead but companies with new product do not have to help nail the high resolution coffin for us.

Does anyone think any manufacturer will make a dvd audio/SACD player that outputs these formats via HDMI?

Troy
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post #18 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 01:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troytn View Post

Does anyone think any manufacturer will make a dvd audio/SACD player that outputs these formats via HDMI?

I believe the Oppo players already do.
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post #19 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 04:22 PM
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Yamaha S2500?
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post #20 of 2622 Old 08-05-2007, 06:46 PM
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As a current RX-Z9 owner i am dissapointed in the RX-Z11 as a future upgrade. The main reason is connectivity!!! In their quest to put more channels into the chassis they have compromised connectivity!

The RXZ9 allows me to connect the following:

1) Bluray Player (currently Region A)
2) DVD Player (for DVD Audio / SACD and region free PAL/NTSC
3) PS3 (region B)
4) LD Player (for all the movie/music titles that will never be released on DVD/Bluray)
5) Cable
6) DVD Recorder
7) Escient DVDM-300 connected to 3 777ES Changers and 500GB of uncompressed music
8) CD-R

The RX-Z11 cannot do the above!! it is one A/V input short (and i don't count the front a/v inputs as being something that i want something connected to - when will manufacturers realise that game machines should have their own dedicated input at the back!)

My only hope is that eventually someone will produce a Region Free Blu-Ray and Region Free PAL/NTSC Player with DVD-Audio and SACD....but im not keeping my hopes out on this one.

I expect the RX-Z11 to add features to the RX-Z9 not remove them...why has power to the main channels dropped from 170W to 140W?...Why lose the LD RF input?...Why lose Zone 2 Svideo?...anyway i can rave on about features from the Z9 that have been lost. I have always been a fan of Yamaha and have had the RX-V2092, RX-Z1 and RX-Z9...but im doubting whether the RX-Z11 is the next logical upgrade or should be looking at Denon's Top of Line PreAmp which has the connectivity i am after...although it is probably twice the price....

Geez Yamaha how can you produce a flagship with less connectivity than the old model and what is it with only 4 HDMI inputs at the back?...I expect 6 HDMI inputs on a flagship! (I am using the 6 component inputs on the RX-Z9 and all those devices will become HDMI over time!)


Anyway had to get this off my chest!
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post #21 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 12:57 AM
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I just can'tunderstand that an AV amplifier in this price range only has 140W on the main channels. I don't care for 100.50 channels, I just wan't an exceptional amplifeir for 5.1 and stereo!
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post #22 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shanemcr View Post

Yamaha S2500?


Don't count on it. It's not really that good of a player, I have one. Besides being very slow to load, they are somewhat buggy and also finicky with certain disc, even after the firmware update that Yamaha came out with for it. And it's playback of SACD via HDMI is even questionable by many. In fact, even what it does with SACD over firewire, is even questionable.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&#post10827420
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post #23 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 02:23 AM
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It is also interesting that the Z11 is no longer using a toroidal power amp.
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post #24 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 03:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCFreak View Post

I just can'tunderstand that an AV amplifier in this price range only has 140W on the main channels. I don't care for 100.50 channels, I just wan't an exceptional amplifeir for 5.1 and stereo!

In this case, you should check lexicon's RV8 rather than any japanese amplifier IMHO
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post #25 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 03:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troytn View Post

So how will SACD and DVD audio be transmitted digitally if there is not a single player out there that will transmit these high resolution formats over HDMI?

The Z11 literature talks about an added Digital DIRECT mode for digital transmission of these formats via HDMI only. Does this mean a player like my Pioneer dvd59avi that currently transmits SACD and dvd audio digitally via firewire will also transmit via HDMI? My guess is NO.

Its the dvd player that needs the dvd audio/SACD transmission (decoder) first before the Z11 can accept them correct? Which means there is not a single dvd player anywhere that someone could hook up to the new Z11 and transmit digital dvd audio/SACD over HDMI?

Its a shame they did not include a firewire connection for this. Its back to using the analog outputs of my Pioneer 59avi player for high resolution music if I get the Z11. Bummer. I know dvd audio/sacd is about dead but companies with new product do not have to help nail the high resolution coffin for us.

Does anyone think any manufacturer will make a dvd audio/SACD player that outputs these formats via HDMI?

The Arcam DV137 and DV139 support DVD-A and SACD (as PCM) over HDMI. Whether these discs will sound better using the receiver to decode the audio or the 137/9s internal DACs and output via analogue is another question entirely.

John Dawson (Arcam)
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post #26 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 04:53 AM
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what's this toroidal amp about?
is it inferior to z11 new amp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephenbr View Post

It is also interesting that the Z11 is no longer using a toroidal power amp.

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post #27 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 05:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoboRay View Post

I believe the Oppo players already do.

Yep, the OPPO DV-981HD will play DVD Audio and SACD and outputs the multi-channel siglal as PCM over the HDMI cable.
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post #28 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HCFreak View Post

I just can'tunderstand that an AV amplifier in this price range only has 140W on the main channels. I don't care for 100.50 channels, I just wan't an exceptional amplifeir for 5.1 and stereo!

You can in part thank THX and I suppose a general combination of greed with stupidity. THX certification requires equal power be provided for all channels. I have always believed this to be stupid and irrational. Other than the front channels, I see no reason in practice to provide much power.

So I suppose if the remainder of the channels were more sensibly powered the main channels could be made larger within the same overall constraints.

Still with the power/volumne/efficiency relationship in sound production, it seems sensible for those whose systems require a great deal of power on the front channels to look to a dedicated amp for these channels.

This BTW is a reason I have always believed that receivers should allow reassignment of the front channel amps to say alternate zones. Many receivers are finally allowing reassignment of the rear amps but the front channel amps are the most likely to be replaced by external amps.

Cheers,

Gary
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post #29 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 09:24 AM
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IMO the evolution of video processing technology, as evidenced by the stream of ever more advanced chips, is allowing A/V receivers to finally deserve the "V" designation in "A/V".

This is particularly true in flagship receivers. However, as I see it, we consumers are faced with a dilemma. Because we are only in the middle of this video evolution, a purchase binds or fixes our video capabilities that may become outdated more quickly than our audio capabilities.

I wish that in order to address this receiver makers would design their video processing as an upgradable daughter card e.g. video card. Now that the HDMI interface is solidifying, I think this is possible, at least for chips from the same manufacturer.

Take the new RX-Z11. It uses the ABT 1018 chip. ABT is a fine company in this field and this chip offers excellent scaling. However, ABT already has the successor 2018 that integrates far more functions offering excellent de-interlacing and noise reduction as well. I would be very much more inclined to invest the vast sums necessary to purchase an RX-Z11 if I knew that I could upgrade video from ABT as time went by.

Let's face it, A/V receivers are becoming primarily special purpose A/V digital computers combined with some critical analog audio circuitry and amplification. The digital computer portion needs to be upgradable not only via firmware but in some areas by hardware as well.

What say you?

Cheers,

Gary
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post #30 of 2622 Old 08-06-2007, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Docray1 View Post

It has 140W for EACH of the 7 main speakers and 50W/channel for the 4 "presence speakers. The unit has a total of 1,180W, which is a LOT of power by ANY standards.

Given real measurements of Yammie's past receivers, its most likely a true 140Wx2, but marketing replaces the 2 channels with 7 channels. Once you start powering all of the channels, the power to each channel drops drastically.
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