Denon 3808 & 4308 Bugs, undesired features, and enhancements desired - Page 58 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1711 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 12:37 PM
Senior Member
 
MordredKLB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 234
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwb134 View Post

yes my problem is both audio and video. I called sony thinking it was my receiver(due to other receiver problems) and they are checking that out. However after reading this thread and realizing it may be the xbr. i have to call them back

Look, I think there's a fairly good chance that it's a problem with the XBR. However, I've been reading that 5300 thread for months and I can tell you that there are very few people mentioning audio and video dropout with their 5300s. It's certainly nothing like the issues listed in this thread. I've got an XBR4 and a 4400ES and I'm considering selling the 4400 due to it's own bugs (particularly the inability to pass 1080p24 for some reason) so I feel your pain. If it is the TV, hopefully Sony can fix this... if it's not, hopefully the receiver makers can fix the stuff on their end.
MordredKLB is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #1712 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 01:21 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by MordredKLB View Post

Look, I think there's a fairly good chance that it's a problem with the XBR. However, I've been reading that 5300 thread for months and I can tell you that there are very few people mentioning audio and video dropout with their 5300s. It's certainly nothing like the issues listed in this thread. I've got an XBR4 and a 4400ES and I'm considering selling the 4400 due to it's own bugs (particularly the inability to pass 1080p24 for some reason) so I feel your pain. If it is the TV, hopefully Sony can fix this... if it's not, hopefully the receiver makers can fix the stuff on their end.

Right, the problem is trying to convince them of who's at fault

a. If you hookup a Denon to a Sony XBR you see the problem.
So, if you take the Denon out of the loop the problem goes away.
Thus, Sony blames the receiver.

b. If you hookup a Denon to another TV you don't see the problem.
Thus Denon blames Sony.

c. If you hookup a Denon or Onkyo or even a Sony receiver to another TV you don't see the problem.
(nobody blames anyone)

d. If you hookup a Denon or Onkyo or Sony receiver to an XBR you see the problem.
Thus, logically, it is most likely the XBR TV at fault, but what do I know?

The fact is a Denon receiver and an XBR TV are very popular combinations. Denon would be losing some sales if they don't work with Sony to get the problem fixed. I know Sony is too big to pay attention to the consumer, but I would think Denon should be able to use their resources to work with the Sony engineers to get them to acknowledge and resolve the problem.

It's ridiculously easy, hookup a 3808 to an XBR TV with some diagnostic equipment, watch and wait.

Grrrr!!!
xtianp is offline  
post #1713 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 04:44 PM
Member
 
dgbarar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianp View Post

d. If you hookup a Denon or Onkyo or Sony receiver to an XBR you see the problem.
Thus, logically, it is most likely the XBR TV at fault, but what do I know?

I am not certain that this logic follows. I replaced my Denon 3808CI with a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. After 5 days of operation with the Yamaha, I am yet to see the drop-outs.

Don
dgbarar is offline  
post #1714 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 05:16 PM
AVS Special Member
 
xradman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 3,017
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I just discovered a potential problem with bass management on AVR-3808. I had a 7.1 setup in the AVR with main speakers set to "Small", crossover at 80Hz and bass output to "LFE".

I wasn't getting any perceptible bass during the "Shockwave" scene in Transformers HD DVD, even though bass during the rest of the movie was fine. According to one of the members in the other thread, the bass for the Shockwave was only encoded onto the main channels and not the LFE channel.

I changed the bass output to "LFE + Main" and now I do get good rumble during the "Shockwave" scene. My understanding of how bass management works with this receiver was

- LFE + Main means low frequency signal is sent to the sub from the conventional channels as well as 0.1 LFE channel regardless of how the conventional channel speakers are set.

- LFE means only 0.1 LFE channel and any low frequency sound from main speakers that are set to small are sent to the subwoofer. If you set your main speakers to large, then only the 0.1 LFE channel signals are sent to the sub.

Since I had main speakers set to "Small" shouldn't I have gotten the same bass sent to my subwoofer with bass management set to "LFE"? Is this a known bug? I know people were having problems with similar issues with stereo inputs, but this is the first time I've heard of this with multichannel 5.1 source.

Addicted to shiny round discs with HD content

My Home Theater
My Movie Collection
BDP-83 EAP (second group)
xradman is offline  
post #1715 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 05:24 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbarar View Post

I am not certain that this logic follows. I replaced my Denon 3808CI with a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver. After 5 days of operation with the Yamaha, I am yet to see the drop-outs.

Don

Yes, that's what makes this so confusing and frustrating. Let's wait and see what happens in the next few days with your setup. Please let me know if you see a dropout. If my theory is correct, you should eventually see one. If not it still doesn't discard the possibility of the issue arising with some combination of receivers, but the XBR is consistent.
xtianp is offline  
post #1716 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 06:54 PM
Newbie
 
floydz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianp View Post

Right, the problem is trying to convince them of who's at fault

a. If you hookup a Denon to a Sony XBR you see the problem.
So, if you take the Denon out of the loop the problem goes away.
Thus, Sony blames the receiver.

b. If you hookup a Denon to another TV you don't see the problem.
Thus Denon blames Sony.

c. If you hookup a Denon or Onkyo or even a Sony receiver to another TV you don't see the problem.
(nobody blames anyone)

d. If you hookup a Denon or Onkyo or Sony receiver to an XBR you see the problem.
Thus, logically, it is most likely the XBR TV at fault, but what do I know?

The fact is a Denon receiver and an XBR TV are very popular combinations. Denon would be losing some sales if they don't work with Sony to get the problem fixed. I know Sony is too big to pay attention to the consumer, but I would think Denon should be able to use their resources to work with the Sony engineers to get them to acknowledge and resolve the problem.

It's ridiculously easy, hookup a 3808 to an XBR TV with some diagnostic equipment, watch and wait.

Grrrr!!!

As indicated in my post the other day, I have the random video/audio resynch problem with my Denon 4308ci hooked up via HDMI to both my Sony KDL52XBR4 and to a Samsung LNT3253H. So it's not just the Sony.
floydz is offline  
post #1717 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 07:50 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by floydz View Post

As indicated in my post the other day, I have the random video/audio resynch problem with my Denon 4308ci hooked up via HDMI to both my Sony KDL52XBR4 and to a Samsung LNT3253H. So it's not just the Sony.

Good to know. So this means it's more than one receiver with more than one TV that are having a problem.

I have raised a complaint with hdmi.org. I went through their site and they supposedly pride themselves on the fact that HDMI is a universal system and they have strict compliance guidelines and blah blah blah.

The fact that this is happening and both Denon and Sony are pointing the finger at each other clearly shows that someone is at fault, but we can't pinpoint who. Hopefully if we raise enough of a stink with hdmi.org they'll look into it.

Here's the link to post your own complaint:

http://www.hdmi.org/contact/index.aspx

If anyone decides to write to them this please keep us posted. So far I've only received an automated reply with a case number. I'll follow up next week.
xtianp is offline  
post #1718 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 07:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hughmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick3092 View Post

Interesting. I have a KDS-50A3000 and a 4308 and have never once had any HDMI dropouts. I can't believe this issue would be specific to the 3808 since I would imagine the HDMI hardware/firmware is the same on them. I have both HDMI and Analog sources. I was under the impression from what I've read that this was an issue with newer Sony XBR LCD's - mainly the XBR4 line.

3 days later and my dropouts have completely stopped after having turned off the CEC for HDMI as was suggested. What is interesting is that is worked for me and some others who have tried it said it didn't.
Hughmc is offline  
post #1719 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 08:09 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

3 days later and my dropouts have completely stopped after having turned off the CEC for HDMI as was suggested. What is interesting is that is worked for me and some others who have tried it said it didn't.

It made no difference to me.
xtianp is offline  
post #1720 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 08:32 PM
Senior Member
 
kpdillon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 387
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianp View Post

It made no difference to me.

Just for giggles, can you try turning off auto lip sync on the Denon and see if that makes a difference in your dropout experience.
kpdillon is offline  
post #1721 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 08:49 PM
Newbie
 
floydz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianp View Post

Good to know. So this means it's more than one receiver with more than one TV that are having a problem.

I have raised a complaint with hdmi.org. I went through their site and they supposedly pride themselves on the fact that HDMI is a universal system and they have strict compliance guidelines and blah blah blah.

The fact that this is happening and both Denon and Sony are pointing the finger at each other clearly shows that someone is at fault, but we can't pinpoint who. Hopefully if we raise enough of a stink with hdmi.org they'll look into it.

Here's the link to post your own complaint:

http://www.hdmi.org/contact/index.aspx

If anyone decides to write to them this please keep us posted. So far I've only received an automated reply with a case number. I'll follow up next week.

Thanks for the info on HDMI.ORG. I just sent them the following problem report:

I'd like to report a problem I'm having using HDMI which appears as a random resynching of the video and audio signal every couple of hours. It happens when I connect my source devices through a Denon 4308ci A/V receiver and connect to either a Sony KDL52XBR4 or a Samsung LNT3253H television. Every few hours, the picture and audio go out for a few seconds, then the TV diplays the HDMI1 overlay in the upper corner of the display, and the picture and sound return. I've experienced the problem using various source devices including my Verizon FIOS STB (a Motorola QIP 6416-2) and playing disks with my Sony BDPS300 BluRay player. If I connect these input devices directly to the televisions, everything is fine. It's only a problem when I connect through the Denon receiver. I've had the Sony television checked by a Sony technician using a Sencore video generator, and he said the HDMI inputs were fine. I also had him generate a signal to the Denon reveiver's HDMI inputs, and he says that they failed HDCP tests. Denon's tech support says that Sony doesn't know how to test Denon's receiver. I sent the receiver back to Denon where they did their own testing, and they say there is no problem with the receiver. However, they did send me a replacement unit. Unfortunately, the replacement unit has the same problem. I've performed resets on all devices, made sure firmware was up to date, removed and replaced HDMI cables and powered things on in various sequences, tried different HDMI cables, turned off CEC capabilty on the TVs and the receiver- all without success. As you probably know, www.avsforums.com has a ongoing discussion of this issue as it relates to the new Sony TVs and the Denon 3808 and 4308 receivers. Your help in solving this problem is highly anticipated and would be appreciated . We've all invested a lot of money in this new technology and are interested in seeing it work. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have additional questions.
floydz is offline  
post #1722 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 08:59 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by kpdillon View Post

Just for giggles, can you try turning off auto lip sync on the Denon and see if that makes a difference in your dropout experience.

I've tried everything previously suggested here, including this, autoscaling off etc. No difference.
xtianp is offline  
post #1723 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 09:02 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by floydz View Post

Thanks for the info on HDMI.ORG. I just sent them the following problem report:

I'd like to report a problem I'm having using HDMI which appears as a random resynching of the video and audio signal every couple of hours. It happens when I connect my source devices through a Denon 4308ci A/V receiver and connect to either a Sony KDL52XBR4 or a Samsung LNT3253H television. Every few hours, the picture and audio go out for a few seconds, then the TV diplays the HDMI1 overlay in the upper corner of the display, and the picture and sound return. I've experienced the problem using various source devices including my Verizon FIOS STB (a Motorola QIP 6416-2) and playing disks with my Sony BDPS300 BluRay player. If I connect these input devices directly to the televisions, everything is fine. It's only a problem when I connect through the Denon receiver. I've had the Sony television checked by a Sony technician using a Sencore video generator, and he said the HDMI inputs were fine. I also had him generate a signal to the Denon reveiver's HDMI inputs, and he says that they failed HDCP tests. Denon's tech support says that Sony doesn't know how to test Denon's receiver. I sent the receiver back to Denon where they did their own testing, and they say there is no problem with the receiver. However, they did send me a replacement unit. Unfortunately, the replacement unit has the same problem. I've performed resets on all devices, made sure firmware was up to date, removed and replaced HDMI cables and powered things on in various sequences, tried different HDMI cables, turned off CEC capabilty on the TVs and the receiver- all without success. As you probably know, www.avsforums.com has a ongoing discussion of this issue as it relates to the new Sony TVs and the Denon 3808 and 4308 receivers. Your help in solving this problem is highly anticipated and would be appreciated . We've all invested a lot of money in this new technology and are interested in seeing it work. Please don't hesitate to contact me if you have additional questions.

Fantastic. Here's my message to them...

I am experiencing video/audio dropout problems between a Sony XBR TV and a Denon receiver. Other consuers on an active forum on this issue are experiencing the same thing. I have contacted both Sony and Denon and they point the finger at each other and nobody will do anything about this. What can I do to work with your organization so that this issue is investigated and properly resolved? One or both of these components are obviously not coplying with the HDMI standard and have bugs in the firmware. Here's a link to a video that shows the problem: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=35pkgTk_seA The video is only 1 minute long. You will see my Sony KDL-52XBR4 TV and my Denon 3808CI. The video is being played by my Panasonic DVD player. This is just a sample. The audio/video dropouts happen constantly no matter what the source is, another DVD player connected through Component cables to the Denon receiver, my PS3, or my Wii, even my DirecTV receiver. I have positively determined it is not faulty hardware. My Denon receiver has been replaced and others are reporting the same problem with other brand receivers, yet lots of Sony XBR TVs are having the same problem, even with Sony Receivers. Here's a link to one such report: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...0#post14551540 As an HDMI consumer I am highly discouraged about this standard and the product manufacturers seem to point the finger at each other and offer no resolution. I really need help and since you're the ultimate authority on this I hope you can help me. I can be reached at xxx-xxx-xxxx. Regards, xxxx.
xtianp is offline  
post #1724 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 09:11 PM
Member
 
bwb134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by xtianp View Post

Let us know what Sony has to say please.

I just hung up with Sony and all they would offer is to document the problem and send it up the chain. I had to fight them to do that so I'm not sure how far up the chain it will get.

At least I notified both Denon and Sony that there is a problem and I pointed them both to the video on youtube, which is clear evidence of the problem. Let's hope they have the decency to work together to resolve the issue.

I am very interested to know what they say to you since your TV and receiver are both Sony. If the problem is with the TV you have a better chance to get Sony to do something about the firmware on the TV that I.

Please keep us posted.

Spent most of the afternoon on the phone with Sony. I spoke directly with Sony tech support in San Diego.These are the people that have been working on my receiver which I've been having horror stories with. First of all when I brought up the receiver - XBR drop-outs their response was that they have tested with the XBR and haven't been able to duplicate the problem after observing the 4300es and the XBR for several days. I brought up the u-tube and all the problems that the Denon owners as well as Sony owners are having. His response was that he believes us but they have to be able to see the problem in order to fix it. I wonder how hard they really are looking.
My good news of the day is that after getting an exchange for my receiver last week and having the same problem with the brand new replacement (hissing from speakers only when listening to Blu-ray in high def sound formats)and once again tech support not being able to duplicate the hissing problem from either receiver (and once again I'm not alone with this problem)It seems that Sony has established a buy-back program for the 4300ES and 5300ES which I am sending back to them and getting most of my money back after nine months of owning this unit. That alone should tell you that there must be a huge amount of negative feedback on these receivers.
I was considering either the Denon 3808CI or the upcoming Yamaha 3900 for my replacement but now after reading about this drop-out problem I guess I have no choice but to lean towards the Yamaha.
Hopefully we all can get this problem resolved so I can go back to my original choice of the Denon.
bwb134 is offline  
post #1725 of 2275 Old 08-29-2008, 10:24 PM
Member
 
xtianp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 84
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwb134 View Post

Spent most of the afternoon on the phone with Sony. I spoke directly with Sony tech support in San Diego.These are the people that have been working on my receiver which I've been having horror stories with. First of all when I brought up the receiver - XBR drop-outs their response was that they have tested with the XBR and haven't been able to duplicate the problem after observing the 4300es and the XBR for several days. I brought up the u-tube and all the problems that the Denon owners as well as Sony owners are having. His response was that he believes us but they have to be able to see the problem in order to fix it. I wonder how hard they really are looking.
My good news of the day is that after getting an exchange for my receiver last week and having the same problem with the brand new replacement (hissing from speakers only when listening to Blu-ray in high def sound formats)and once again tech support not being able to duplicate the hissing problem from either receiver (and once again I'm not alone with this problem)It seems that Sony has established a buy-back program for the 4300ES and 5300ES which I am sending back to them and getting most of my money back after nine months of owning this unit. That alone should tell you that there must be a huge amount of negative feedback on these receivers.
I was considering either the Denon 3808CI or the upcoming Yamaha 3900 for my replacement but now after reading about this drop-out problem I guess I have no choice but to lean towards the Yamaha.
Hopefully we all can get this problem resolved so I can go back to my original choice of the Denon.

Wow, thank you for letting us know. I'm glad Sony is buying back your bad receiver. Good for you.

Keep checking this thread for updates on this problem. If Denon comes through with a fix maybe you could get the Denon, but I doubt that will happen any time soon. If I were in your shoes I would buy the Yamaha at this point.
xtianp is offline  
post #1726 of 2275 Old 08-30-2008, 09:30 AM
Member
 
bwb134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbarar View Post

Great suggestion on interposing the switch between the XBR4 and the 3808CI. I wish I had thought of this. I might actually have to go out and get another 3808CI, because I did like the receiver.

Incidentally, I am 4 days and counting with the Yamaha RX-V663 without any AV drop-outs.

Don Barar

Also I see that your still monitoring a Yamaha for drop-outs.Please keep me informed....thanks
bwb134 is offline  
post #1727 of 2275 Old 08-30-2008, 07:29 PM
Member
 
dgbarar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwb134 View Post

Also I see that your still monitoring a Yamaha for drop-outs.Please keep me informed....thanks

I have had the Yamaha RX-V663 in service for a total of 6 days. I have yet to experience the drop-out problem since putting this receiver into service. I will be on vacation for a week and will start counting again when I return on the September 09. Six days may still be too early to tell. I will feel better about making the statement that this is a Denon problem when I have about 14 days testing. Who would think that a $500 receiver would have fewer serious bugs than a $1700 receiver?

Don
dgbarar is offline  
post #1728 of 2275 Old 08-30-2008, 10:22 PM
Member
 
bwb134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbarar View Post

I have had the Yamaha RX-V663 in service for a total of 6 days. I have yet to experience the drop-out problem since putting this receiver into service. I will be on vacation for a week and will start counting again when I return on the September 09. Six days may still be too early to tell. I will feel better about making the statement that this is a Denon problem when I have about 14 days testing. Who would think that a $500 receiver would have fewer serious bugs than a $1700 receiver?

Don

I went to best buy today to listen to the 3808ci against the yamaha 1800 they didn't have the 3800.They were able to demo them on the def tech speakers that I have. After listening to both I have to tell you for me and my wife the denon was much clearer and had a much better sound.I may just have to get it but probably at 6th ave (much better price) and monitor it for a month to see if I have the problem. If its that bad I'll return it...Hope I'm not making a mistake ......Enjoy your vacation.
bwb134 is offline  
post #1729 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 06:29 AM
Member
 
zone555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
This may be a shot in the dark, but are you guys using 10' HDMI cables to connect your receiver to the TV?

I swapped my original cable (10', monoprice, HDMI 1.3a) with the cable that came with my Xbox 360 (6', HDMI 1.2) and it was drop out free for 4 hours of continuous use. I also performed the same test with a spare 10' generic HDMI cable, and it caused a drop out within 10 minutes of use. Could the drop out issue be related to cable length?
zone555 is offline  
post #1730 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 06:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Kishiro's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Norway
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Good news everybody!
I downloaded the latest Denon 3808 firmware which was released a couple of days ago. It fixed the right-side pixel swap/crop issue! (see below)

And for those who hasn't updated recently, the previous update fixed the New Line DTS-MA 7.1 problems when playing back on a 5.1 system. Titles like "The Orphanage" would playback no sound to the fronts, and INSANELY high volumes to the backs. You'd only get distorted background effects at 10 times the normal volume. It scared the sh*t out of me first time I tried a New Line 7.1 DTS-Ma track. Anyhow, that's fixed.

I've no more stuff on my Denon to-do list. It's aaall good


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kishiro View Post

I can confirm these findings. At first I thought the Denon cropped or simply blacked out the last vertical row. It seemed odd, so I made a bunch of test patterns to find out what was really happening. Upon further inspection It seems to me that the following is occuring; The two last vertical pixel-rows (row 1919 and row 1920) are duplicates of the two preceding rows (row 1917 and 1918). You can easily verify this by making a 1920x1080 test pattern (or using pattern_6 linked to below) where the last two rows (1919,1920) are black, and the two preceeding rows are yellow and blue. If you connect your PS3's HDMI cable directly to your TV (which must support 1:1 pixelmapping), you'll see that the pattern shows the four last rows (right-side) as yellow,blue,black,black(1917,1918,1919,1920).
When you go through the Denon, you'll instead see; yellow,blue,yellow,blue(1917,1918,1919,1920).

I downloaded the latest firmware today. And can confirm that the bug is stil present.

Below is two of the patterns I made. Pattern_2 is framed with a one-pixel width red border around it. On a 1:1 pixelmapped capable monitor with no overscan, you should see the red border on all four edges of the screen.
Pattern_6 is the one mentioned in my text. It containes a one-pixel width red border on three of the sides. The fourth side (the right-hand side) is containing as mentioned, a one-pixel width yellow row, a bluw row and two black rows.


crop_pattern_2.gif
crop_pattern_6.gif

Kishiro is online now  
post #1731 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 12:14 PM
Senior Member
 
mifronte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Somewhere in the US of A
Posts: 368
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I did not even know this thread existed until someone in the Official Denon 3808ci Owners Forum referenced this thread.

I too am experiencing HDMI dropouts between my AVR 3808ci and Sony KDL52XBR4 LCD. All my HDMI cables are either 3 or 6 feet long and are from Monoprice, Blue Jeans Cable, and Impact Acoustics. So I can say it is probably not a cable problem.

My dropouts are once per movie playback (worse case) or every third movie (best case). I have two sources (Denon 2910 DVD and Sony DVPCX995V DVD changer) going through the AVR3808ci and then to my Sony KDL52XBR4. The HDMI dropouts occur for both sources!

I also have a Sony KDF-E50A10 Sony RPTV. When I had the Denon 2910 connected directy to this TV via HDMI, I would also experience the same HDMI dropout issue.

It looks like Denon and Sony don't like playing together when it comes to HDMI. Would either company be the better and just fix the problem?

Still Learning
mifronte is offline  
post #1732 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 12:27 PM
Newbie
 
floydz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 14
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zone555 View Post

This may be a shot in the dark, but are you guys using 10' HDMI cables to connect your receiver to the TV?

I swapped my original cable (10', monoprice, HDMI 1.3a) with the cable that came with my Xbox 360 (6', HDMI 1.2) and it was drop out free for 4 hours of continuous use. I also performed the same test with a spare 10' generic HDMI cable, and it caused a drop out within 10 minutes of use. Could the drop out issue be related to cable length?

I suppose the cable could be the problem, but I have my doubts. I've tried both a 15' and a 6' cable from the Denon to the TV. The 15' cable was purchased from Oppo Digital- it's 24AWG and gold-plated. Then I tried a 6' gold-plated cable from WireLogic that I got at Costco- their website makes it sound pretty good http://www.costco.com/Images/Content...PDF/115401.PDF .

I spoke to a Magnolia salesman at Best Buy about the problem. He suggested using Monster Cable- their 1000 series cables claim to handle 120Hz signals. Which is interesting since the Sony TV is 120Hz capable. I was going to try it (knowing I could easily return it) but they only had 3' length in stock and I needed 6'. I didn't follow-up trying to find another store with the longer cable because I figured the cables I've got are just as good, and a whole lot cheaper.
floydz is offline  
post #1733 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 12:57 PM
Member
 
dgbarar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Fountain Hills, AZ
Posts: 69
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by zone555 View Post

This may be a shot in the dark, but are you guys using 10' HDMI cables to connect your receiver to the TV?

I swapped my original cable (10', monoprice, HDMI 1.3a) with the cable that came with my Xbox 360 (6', HDMI 1.2) and it was drop out free for 4 hours of continuous use. I also performed the same test with a spare 10' generic HDMI cable, and it caused a drop out within 10 minutes of use. Could the drop out issue be related to cable length?

Denon recommends that there be no more than 15' of HDMI cable from the source to the TV. In my case, I only had a total of 10 feet between my sources and TV combined (6 ft cables on each of the sources and a 4 ft from the 3808CI to the XBR4). It did not impact the number of drop outs that I experienced with my 3808CI and Sony XBR4 television. The only thing that has worked is replacing the 3808CI with a Yamaha RX-V663.

Don Barar
dgbarar is offline  
post #1734 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 07:33 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hughmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Update:

I still am not having any dropouts 4 days later. Unless something changes beyond a reasonable doubt it was the HDMI CEC causing the problems. It was really bad prior to me turning them off in the SOny A3000. My HTPC would go blank and do other wierd things, my Cable would drop, but I don't recall ever having issues with my PS3. I have a 33 ft Blue Jeans cable. As another posted reported the dropouts became worse or more frequent after this latest update for the Denon.

I will keep posting back whether things stay the same or not.
Hughmc is offline  
post #1735 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 07:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hughmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by dgbarar View Post

Denon recommends that there be no more than 15' of HDMI cable from the source to the TV. In my case, I only had a total of 10 feet between my sources and TV combined (6 ft cables on each of the sources and a 4 ft from the 3808CI to the XBR4). It did not impact the number of drop outs that I experienced with my 3808CI and Sony XBR4 television. The only thing that has worked is replacing the 3808CI with a Yamaha RX-V663.

Don Barar

Cables having nothing to do with it IMO or the length of them either.
Hughmc is offline  
post #1736 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 07:58 PM
Member
 
bwb134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

Update:

I still am not having any dropouts 4 days later. Unless something changes beyond a reasonable doubt it was the HDMI CEC causing the problems. It was really bad prior to me turning them off in the SOny A3000. My HTPC would go blank and do other wierd things, my Cable would drop, but I don't recall ever having issues with my PS3. I have a 33 ft Blue Jeans cable. As another posted reported the dropouts became worse or more frequent after this latest update for the Denon.

I will keep posting back whether things stay the same or not.

Please explain to me which setting on the xbr menu you are talking about.
By HDMI CEC do you mean the HDMI settings in the menu which is listed between the external inputs and general settings on the menu..........thanks
bwb134 is offline  
post #1737 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 08:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Hughmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 7,556
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwb134 View Post

Please explain to me which setting on the xbr menu you are talking about.
By HDMI CEC do you mean the HDMI settings in the menu which is listed between the external inputs and general settings on the menu..........thanks

I do not have an XBR, but I had the same serious and frequent HDMI dropouts as many experienced. On my set, the SOny A3000 RPTV I went into settings and then HDMI settings and turned off HDMI control and it then automatically turned off all or the rest the HDMI control settings. Make sure to save the settings if the option allows or requires or it will not change just revert back.

I am not saying that this is a true fix till I give it more time, but so far dropouts have stopped. Considering they were constant as in every few minutes or even several times a minute and now I have none since turning HDMI control off, it seems to be a fix. If it does hold and is a fix for me, I could only hope it would work for others, but it seems for some it doesn't.
Hughmc is offline  
post #1738 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 10:55 PM
Member
 
bwb134's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 40
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hughmc View Post

I do not have an XBR, but I had the same serious and frequent HDMI dropouts as many experienced. On my set, the SOny A3000 RPTV I went into settings and then HDMI settings and turned off HDMI control and it then automatically turned off all or the rest the HDMI control settings. Make sure to save the settings if the option allows or requires or it will not change just revert back.

I am not saying that this is a true fix till I give it more time, but so far dropouts have stopped. Considering they were constant as in every few minutes or even several times a minute and now I have none since turning HDMI control off, it seems to be a fix. If it does hold and is a fix for me, I could only hope it would work for others, but it seems for some it doesn't.

Thanks for your help.However that is what I've already tried. I was just making sure that was what I was supposed to be doing. It didn't solve my issue either.
bwb134 is offline  
post #1739 of 2275 Old 08-31-2008, 10:56 PM
Member
 
zone555's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 82
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Updating my HDMI cable experiment:

Yesterday's experiment with a 6' HDMI cable was so successful that I decided to go futher into the matter. I bought a 6' Monster Cable 850hd cable which, according to the box, is HDMI 1.3a compliant.

I'm pleased to report that after 6-7 hours of continuous use with the Monster Cable, I still haven't seen any drop outs!

Perhaps the cable length has little to do with it, but I think it has more to do with cable quality. My previous cable was from Monoprice, obviously they're very well priced but we have no facts regarding their quality and tolerances. The Monoprice cables will probably work for 99.9% of its users, but maybe this is a unique situation. I have a feeling that the signaling between a Denon and Sony isn't as clean or pure as it should be.

Take this information any way you want. If this helps anyone else out there, that's great. I just hope this drop out free viewing lasts, even if it cuts the frequency down to days rather than hourly, that's good enough for me.

Will continue to update if anything changes.
zone555 is offline  
post #1740 of 2275 Old 09-02-2008, 07:07 AM
Member
 
Poirot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 36
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
My dropout experiences. I got my 3808Ci Friday, and installed it Sunday. I took everything apart, cleaned, labeled and re-cabled it all. So cables are not an issue. The HDMI's are Monster made Radio-Shack cables, brand new. The TV is a Sony KDS-50A2000.

What I have noticed, is that when I have dropouts watching a 4:3 program, it comes back as a 16:9 or full screen. At first, this made me believe that this was an issue with the tele's wide mode. I set it so that the auto-wide mode is off on the Sony. Is there an option on the Denon that could be causing the wide mode to lose sync? As I searched the thread, I see that this may not be the case. I assume that people have also seen this. I can't say this has fixed MY issue, as I went to bed right after making that last change.


Poirot
Poirot is offline  
Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off