The "Official" Yamaha RX-V1800/RX-V3800 Thread - Page 151 - AVS Forum
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post #4501 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 04:24 AM
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hi
if you set the suwboofer mode to SWFR while having the MAINS LR in LARGE, the MAINS do get the bass from the L R channels and the Sub does the bass from SMALL speakers and the LFE correct ?
the BOTH mode means the sub does the LFE and the bass from the MAINS (and the MAINS still do their own bass too ) right ?

has the software update solved the clipping issue wiht DTS MASTER AUDIO ?

thanks guys
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post #4502 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

Is there a way to set u the 1800 to display volume (when moved up and down) as well as sound modes on screen? My AVR is located in a different room and I'd like to see this information on screen instead of just on the AVR front panel when I adjust the volume and sound modes.

SHORT MESSAGE DISPLAY ON TV (volume, input select, etc)

The short message display does not appear in the following cases:

- when the component video signals with 720p, 1080i or 1080p resolutions are input
- when *any* HDMI video signals are input, regardless of resolution (480, 720, 1080)
- some odd video signals like some games
- 480p input (RX-V1800 only)
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post #4503 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koy View Post

If the video signal input via HDMI is 480i\\480P will this receiver upscale to 1080P (HDMI OUT)? Based on the grid in the manual it says passthrough. Does this mean that the signal will be displayed at 480i/480P? If that's the case I should hook may cable box via component so that I can get 1080P upscale for video signals that are not HD.....any thoughts.

Thanks

UPSCALING via HDMI

RX-V1800/3800 up-scales the analog (non-HDMI) video signals to HDMI output as follows:
480i (NTSC)/576i (PAL) upscaled to 480p/576p, 1080i, 720p, or 1080p
480p/576p upscaled to 1080i, 720p, or 1080p

- 720p and 1080i will NOT be upscaled regardless of input signal type
- ALL upscaling is only for HDMI output
- ALL HDMI input is passthrough only, no upscaling
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post #4504 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

SHORT MESSAGE DISPLAY ON TV (volume, input select, etc)

The short message display does not appear in the following cases:

- when the component video signals with 720p, 1080i or 1080p resolutions are input
- when *any* HDMI video signals are input, regardless of resolution (480, 720, 1080)
- some odd video signals like some games
- 480p input (RX-V1800 only)

Well I must say that is stupid. When does this display work? The list must be a lot shorter than the one you gave... What is the point of it if it doesn't work on HDMI and component. Who uses anything else now days... things like this really piss me off. I may be returning mine and getting something else....
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post #4505 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

Well I must say that is stupid. When does this display work? The list must be a lot shorter than the one you gave... What is the point of it if it doesn't work on HDMI and component. Who uses anything else now days... things like this really piss me off. I may be returning mine and getting something else....

With high-def input being the norm, you pretty much have to accept no on-screen volume overlay with this receiver. You can see the volume if you don't mind a full screen display that replaces the video, but who wants that?

By the way, how are you controlling the AVR if it's in another room? Depending on your remote control there are ways to save and restore a series of known volume levels, so that might be a workaround for you (e.g. with a remote control command you could select -10, -15, -20dB etc. even without being able to see the volume display).
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post #4506 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Depending on your remote control there are ways to save and restore a series of known volume levels, so that might be a workaround for you (e.g. with a remote control command you could select -10, -15, -20dB etc. even without being able to see the volume display).

This is almost how it has to be done given the infamous front panel volume "meter". I really hope they will have a short message OSD that always works over HDMI for the next models. They didn't seem to put much thought into usability for the current models. At the very least they need to have a front panel display that is not useless...
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post #4507 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 08:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdeanmc View Post

Hi all, i hope this isnt one of those problems that has been hammered out over and over but...
I cant get the "True Hd" to light up on my receiver.
Ive got ps3 with the latest firmware connected via hdmi to the Rx-v1800 running"untraceable"Blu ray which is true hd but no true hd light on the receiver.I have changed output settings on the ps3 from linear pcm to bitstream and back and forth but nothing any ideas????

The PS3 decodes TrueHD (and DTS-HD MA) and sends it out as PCM.
You cant bitstream either from the PS3, you have to set your PS3 to PCM.

You will never see the TrueHD or DTS-HD MA light up on your RX-V1800,
unless you get a stand alone BD player that can send it as bitstream (like the Panny BD30).

You could hit the triangle button on the PS3 during playback and it will display your audio and video specs if you really need to see what your playing.

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post #4508 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crbaldwin View Post

This is almost how it has to be done given the infamous front panel volume "meter". I really hope they will have a short message OSD that always works over HDMI for the next models. They didn't seem to put much thought into usability for the current models. At the very least they need to have a front panel display that is not useless...

Maybe the way of the future is a remote control that can receive as well as send information, and the volume level and other info would be shown on the remote. I'd rather have this than an overlay on the main video, which is pretty distracting to people watching a movie (especially those who aren't holding the remote).
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post #4509 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 08:51 AM
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Thanks for the reply,
I dont guess i have to have the light on i just want to make sure im getting all im "posed"to be gettin'.
So i need to set the ps3 to pcm and let er ride?
I do have a sony blu ray player Bdsp300 but i dont think it decodes true hd or dts hd.I think the 500 will but not the 300.Anyhoo thanks for clarifying and please correct me on any of the above ramblings if need be.
Also i did notice if the ps3 is set to "bitstream"the receiver displays dolby digital,if the ps3 is set to "linear pcm"the receiver displays pcm

Thanks
Dean
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post #4510 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

Well I must say that is stupid. When does this display work? The list must be a lot shorter than the one you gave... What is the point of it if it doesn't work on HDMI and component. Who uses anything else now days... things like this really piss me off. I may be returning mine and getting something else....

Not quite totally correct.

In some cases - such as the use of 480i component from say a SD-DVD, you do get the OSD - I do on my V1800 with component from the SD-DVD and then passed thru as 480i over HDMI from the V1800 to my HDTV.

And you do get the OSD if you have...gasp...a VHS or such device connected with composite or S-Video (which is what I have).

Other than that, I do agree - either it has OSD or it doesn't - the inbetween stuff isn't very consistent.

fwiw,
Erik
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post #4511 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 09:25 AM
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you guys got the mains outputting bass correctly when the 1800 is set up in SWFR mode and mains in LARGE ?
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post #4512 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Maybe the way of the future is a remote control that can receive as well as send information, and the volume level and other info would be shown on the remote. I'd rather have this than an overlay on the main video, which is pretty distracting to people watching a movie (especially those who aren't holding the remote).

Several years ago I had a Kenwood Sovereign receiver with a 2-way remote that had a nice LCD that did show volume on it. It also showed the list of DVD titles in my attached Kenwood 400-disc changer. This was really cool but they dropped the Sovereign line soon after this...
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post #4513 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Maybe the way of the future is a remote control that can receive as well as send information, and the volume level and other info would be shown on the remote. I'd rather have this than an overlay on the main video, which is pretty distracting to people watching a movie (especially those who aren't holding the remote).

Indeed! And the future is WiFi and BlueTooth remotes, with and without screens. As we "network" more devices the WiFi remote will eventually replace IR remotes.

People are already using things like iPhone, iTouch, PDA's, and other WiFi or BT devices to access media libraries and control hardware devices.
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post #4514 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

Well I must say that is stupid. When does this display work? The list must be a lot shorter than the one you gave... What is the point of it if it doesn't work on HDMI and component. Who uses anything else now days... things like this really piss me off. I may be returning mine and getting something else....

*shrug* I'm actually annoyed the few times when Short Message does display as I find it distracting and unnecessary. But then my setup does not require the Short Message displayed.

But I could certainly understand people wanting to see Short Message displayed for particular applications and setups. I *think* I remember someone posting in here that a Denon model did Short Message (volume, input source, etc..) with any inputs including HDMI, you might want to check them out.
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post #4515 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toby10 View Post

Indeed! And the future is WiFi and BlueTooth remotes, with and without screens. As we "network" more devices the WiFi remote will eventually replace IR remotes.

People are already using things like iPhone, iTouch, PDA's, and other WiFi or BT devices to access media libraries and control hardware devices.

Bluetooth should be the future for control of CE devices, but I think companies like Logitech may resist the change from IR as long as they can. With Bluetooth they suddenly have to compete with a whole load of free remote control applications that people could run on their phones or PDAs.
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post #4516 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 10:49 AM
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Hey guys, quick question. What setting should I use on my reciever if I don't want any additional processing being done (my PS3 does all the decoding). I currently have it on Surround Decode PLII, is this right?
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post #4517 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

With high-def input being the norm, you pretty much have to accept no on-screen volume overlay with this receiver. You can see the volume if you don't mind a full screen display that replaces the video, but who wants that?

By the way, how are you controlling the AVR if it's in another room? Depending on your remote control there are ways to save and restore a series of known volume levels, so that might be a workaround for you (e.g. with a remote control command you could select -10, -15, -20dB etc. even without being able to see the volume display).

Just confirm you are only discussing the 1800 here. With my Australasian 3800 connected only by HDMI to a Panny plasma I always get the short display of volume when I change it. ?
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post #4518 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by cshwone View Post

Just confirm you are only discussing the 1800 here. With my Australasian 3800 connected only by HDMI to a Panny plasma I always get the short display of volume when I change it. ?

Read message 4502.
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post #4519 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Bluetooth should be the future for control of CE devices, but I think companies like Logitech may resist the change from IR as long as they can. With Bluetooth they suddenly have to compete with a whole load of free remote control applications that people could run on their phones or PDAs.

http://www.slimdevices.com/

Logitech bought Slim Devices well over a year ago. This gives you an idea of what WiFi remotes can do, though this item is currently restricted to the Logitech Duet product. If we are talking networked devices WiFi actually makes more sense than BT as a WiFi remote would speak directly to your router (ie your network).

But I certainly see benefits to BT for non-networked devices.
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post #4520 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 01:59 PM
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I recently hooked up HDMI through th RXV1800 and the picture through HDMI is way darker than through component. There is more shadow detail through component. I will not be using HDMI if it gets me such a dark picture and therefore will not use the upscaling features of the RXV1800 if this is the case. Is this a normal thing? Is HDMI always darker than component or does the RXV1800 cause this when upscaling?
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post #4521 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

I recently hooked up HDMI through th RXV1800 and the picture through HDMI is way darker than through component. There is more shadow detail through component. I will not be using HDMI if it gets me such a dark picture and therefore will not use the upscaling features of the RXV1800 if this is the case. Is this a normal thing? Is HDMI always darker than component or does the RXV1800 cause this when upscaling?

Mine isn't darker (HDMI via 2700). Your tv may have separate calibration settings per input. As well, your tv may have other HDMI specific settings like HDMI HIGH or HDMI LOW.

Depending on your tv it is quite possible (in fact, likely) your tv has far superior video processing (upscaling, deinterlacing) than does your AVR.
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post #4522 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 02:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Talontsi96 View Post

I recently hooked up HDMI through th RXV1800 and the picture through HDMI is way darker than through component. There is more shadow detail through component. I will not be using HDMI if it gets me such a dark picture and therefore will not use the upscaling features of the RXV1800 if this is the case. Is this a normal thing? Is HDMI always darker than component or does the RXV1800 cause this when upscaling?

Do you mean you compared HDMI and component input to the 1800, with HDMI going from the 1800 to the display in both cases? The 1800 doesn't change any levels, except for the clipping of below 16 and above 235 for HDMI inputs. Component input is not clipped, so if your source and display were set for full range signals (black = 0), the HDMI input will indeed lose shadow detail compared to component (but the overall picture will not be darker).

BUT, your two sources (the HDMI one and the component one) might also be outputting different levels, so you can't necessarily blame the 1800.
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post #4523 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 02:14 PM
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Thanks for that guys. The Calibration of each input on my TV is probably the culprit. I have not calibrated the HDMI input the same as the component. Any info on Yamaha correcting the BTB and WTW issue with firmware?

BTW the source was the same ...... Component went in to the 1800 and then I output from the 1800 to my PJ in component vs. HDMI...
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post #4524 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 02:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

you guys got the mains outputting bass correctly when the 1800 is set up in SWFR mode and mains in LARGE ?

Yes, I have my 1800 set to large mains, large surrounds and small center. I can confirm that this definatly keeps the bass going to the correct speakers and sends LFE and center bass to my Sub. My fronts have built in powered subs and my surrounds are going through a their own powered sub, I tried all different combinations and this seems to sound the best for my room set up. When I change the mains to small I can definatly hear the the bass from them redirected to the sub connected to Sub out, the same with the surrounds. Hope this helps you.
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post #4525 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 03:01 PM
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hi Jay
thanks
in fact i was testing KING KONG (Jackson). and the it's the mix of the movie: the bass is mainly in the LFE in fact... other movies more loaded in the mains play normally
i run inthat HT the 1800 to an ADA power amp, Klipsch reference 63 towers and C64 center. center and surrounds cut at 80hz. sub: SWFR so it gets only the LFE
the "both" contrary to the DENON for instance adds the LFE to the MAINS instead of adding the MAINS bass to the subwoofer. Ideally like in theaters you have to be able to have the .1 to the subs and the low bass from the mains (say 30 40hz max) and the mains doing the down to 30 or 40hz of the LCRSR channels.
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post #4526 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 03:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lcjrodriguez View Post

Hey guys, quick question. What setting should I use on my reciever if I don't want any additional processing being done (my PS3 does all the decoding). I currently have it on Surround Decode PLII, is this right?

STRAIGHT would be the way to go for multi-channel decoded sources. Surround decode will decode a 2 channel source into non-discrete surround. STRAIGHT will just pass it through without DSP processing, leaving only channel stereo.
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post #4527 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Digital2004 View Post

hi Jay
thanks
in fact i was testing KING KONG (Jackson). and the it's the mix of the movie: the bass is mainly in the LFE in fact... other movies more loaded in the mains play normally
i run inthat HT the 1800 to an ADA power amp, Klipsch reference 63 towers and C64 center. center and surrounds cut at 80hz. sub: SWFR so it gets only the LFE
the "both" contrary to the DENON for instance adds the LFE to the MAINS instead of adding the MAINS bass to the subwoofer. Ideally like in theaters you have to be able to have the .1 to the subs and the low bass from the mains (say 30 40hz max) and the mains doing the down to 30 or 40hz of the LCRSR channels.

I really don't like how Yamaha handles the LFE crossover and management. It works as it was designed but it is not very flexible. My ten year old Sony receiver allows you to pick crossover points for each channel individually. I guess if all of your speakers are perfectly matched then it's not a problem, but for those of us with a hodge podge of speakers it creates some issues.
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post #4528 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

My ten year old Sony receiver allows you to pick crossover points for each channel individually.

That should work well for music, or pro-logic style movies, but there is a problem with 'full range surround' movies: A [rear channel] pan with strong bass in the region between the lowest and highest satellite crossover frequencies may appear to jump back and forth between the low crossover satellites and the sub/fronts [ignoring intervening high frequency crossover satellites!] Worst case scenario: The high frequency signal pans LS, LB, RB, RS, while the low frequency signal pans LS, (L+R)/Sub, RS, i.e., in the opposite direction. [Of course, you can still cause a similar problem with poor placement of LARGE speakers...]

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post #4529 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by SoundChex View Post

That should work well for music, or pro-logic style movies, but there is a problem with 'full range surround' movies: A [rear channel] pan with strong bass in the region between the lowest and highest satellite crossover frequencies may appear to jump back and forth between the low crossover satellites and the sub/fronts [ignoring intervening high frequency crossover satellites!] Worst case scenario: The high frequency signal pans LS, LB, RB, RS, while the low frequency signal pans LS, L+R, RS, i.e., in the opposite direction. [Of course, you can still cause a similar problem with poor placement of LARGE speakers...]

It would be nice to have the option still. For example my surrounds need to crossover at around 110hz to 120hz but my center sounds best crossing at 80hz. If i set my crossover to 80hz then my surrrounds are getting to much bass and if i set it to 110hz then my center tends to sound shallow. I got around this by adding another powered sub to my rear channel and it actually sounds excellent but it would be nice to have that option available. I understand what you are saying but it seems pretty common for modern receivers to have this option.
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post #4530 of 8664 Old 05-21-2008, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaymerkramer View Post

It would be nice to have the option still. For example my surrounds need to crossover at around 110hz to 120hz but my center sounds best crossing at 80hz. If i set my crossover to 80hz then my surrrounds are getting to much bass and if i set it to 110hz then my center tends to sound shallow. I got around this by adding another powered sub to my rear channel and it actually sounds excellent but it would be nice to have that option available. I understand what you are saying but it seems pretty common for modern receivers to have this option.

Yeah, I have similar issues with one system here. But the manufacturer is caught between what is 'idiot proofing' and what is 'limiting'. Comparing the RX-V663 with the [last year's] RX-V661, I'd guess Yamaha has decided idiot proofing is much more important than flexibility!

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Yamaha Rx V1800 Receiver , Yamaha Rx V3800bl Receiver
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