new marantz sr7002, sr8002 receivers - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 03:30 AM
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Re the PS3 sending bitstream. I believe it can't do this and will only send 2.0 via bitstream. If you want THD you have to use HDMI PCM (internally decoded) and you won't be able to receive DTS_MA. Check out the PS3 thread under the Blu-Ray section for more info.
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post #722 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantGSR View Post

does marantz rate their power running 2 channels or all channels?

2 channels
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post #723 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 05:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Spy View Post

2 channels

Isn't it all channels as I thought in user's manual?
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post #724 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 06:29 AM
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Quote:


For our 8002, with our Panasonic BD30 playing CD over HDMI in "STEREO" is very nice. A bit recessed or soft, not as full, but still very nice. I am not complaining and I am picky with music.

Using our ARC CD2 over Nordost analog cables into the 8002 playing in "STEREO" mode is simply fabulous. Yes, it is still no match for the ARC amplifier but for what it can do, simply fabulous. I can listen to this all day long.

The internal DACs sound nice, but I find for music listening I also prefer my external d/a converter (audio Alchemy with DTI Pro).

1080p and lossless audio. EVERY BD should have them both.
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post #725 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 06:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDay View Post

Isn't it all channels as I thought in user's manual?

where did you see that in the manaul ? i have been trying to find this out also - i have the 7002 and the manual dosnt say if its rated with 2 channels driven or all channels ??

i think i emailed marantz to ask them that also - dont remember getting a answer to this question that i would like to know also - the SQ is great and loud - no distortion at all even at 0db -- so it wont make a difference if it were rated at 2 channels or all channels - but it is nice to know -- if anyone finds out for sure - post back and let us know
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post #726 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by expresso712 View Post

- i just changed the power cord because mines never really fitted snug on the back of the marantz so i decided to get a better one and YES - it sounded even better -- more bottom end - i am loving it - and its only a week with the new cord - needs more time before it sounds even better --

i got the PS Audio prelude model - - its a great cable - everyone should upgrade there stock cable - you will be amazed --

I am sorry, but I have a hard time buying that. The Marantz 7002/8002 then has no capacitors???
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post #727 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Spy View Post

2 channels

Just curious as to where you found this information? Does your source reveal 7002 and/or 8002 power output for all channels at 8 ohms?

In a situation provided with maximum amplification, perform a disciplined action.
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post #728 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:37 AM
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Does anyone know if there is a huge difference between the preamplifier in the 7002/8002 vs a 5002 ? Im thinking about actually going for a cheaper Marantz now, and add an external power amp to it. Will I miss something else by going that way ?
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post #729 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:38 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by promtbr View Post

I am sorry, but I have a hard time buying that. The Marantz 7002/8002 then has no capacitors???

i dont see whats so hard to believe - it just sounds even better than what it did before -- i noticed it the very first time - i didnt think it would make a difference also and didnt think it would be noticeable to me - the reason i even considered a new power cable was because the one that came with my 7002 didnt fit flush enough for me on the back of my unit - it had some wiggle room - left to right - i did put some electric tape to make it fit better and it worked - but i just decided to get a new cable anyway - i wanted a shorter one - and i got the PS Audio Prelude - and yes to my ears - i heard it right away - and i am very picky and sensitive - what i didnt hear a difference from was speaker wiring -- i have a few different types and changing them around didnt make a big difference if any -- unlike with the power cord --

i cant say if you or anyone else would hear this difference that i got from that cord - its not too expensive - compared to some $1000 cords -- which i dont know if at some point it just becomes just wasteful money --

but for $140 - its worth it - and yes i will buy another for my Cd player when i get it and if i am not happy with the stock cord or if its too long - i will get the PS audio punch model -
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post #730 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:46 AM
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yeah there is a difference in power cords. I don't know if I missed something, but I'm not sure how someone can take that the receiver doesn't have any caps?!?! that just plain doesn't make sense!


I bought a spool of cable and some nice watgate plugs to make my receiver a new power cord and one for my new Oppo 980 that shipped yesterday while I'm at it. I already have a nice cord for my SinglePower MPX3 SLAM. Maybe if I get around to it my Toshiba A2 will receive a new cable as well
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post #731 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:53 AM
 
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i agree - i cant say if every power cord i upgrade for each unit i have will make the same difference that i got from the power cord on the 7002 - for example - when i get the CD player - and use it with the stock cord for a while - depending how long the stock cord is - i like to try to keep it neat and as short as i can for that purpose - so in the process i just get a better cord in general - and i am sure it will help either way - i am not sure if i would hear a difference with a better cord on the CD player - or DVD player for that matter - but for sure - i heard the difference instantly with the main power cord from the 7002 - and its still very new - will get better in time
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post #732 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 08:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expresso712 View Post

where did you see that in the manaul ? i have been trying to find this out also - i have the 7002 and the manual dosnt say if its rated with 2 channels driven or all channels ??

i think i emailed marantz to ask them that also - dont remember getting a answer to this question that i would like to know also - the SQ is great and loud - no distortion at all even at 0db -- so it wont make a difference if it were rated at 2 channels or all channels - but it is nice to know -- if anyone finds out for sure - post back and let us know

page 2 on the right column.

• THX Select 2 certifi ed
7ch amplifi ers have enough power for even the most
diffi cult conditions found in large rooms.
Enormous power reserves endow the system with
substantial dynamic ability at high sound levels.
110 watts (SR7002) / 125 watts (SR8002) to each of
the 7 main channels the power amp section features
an advanced, premium high-storage power supply
capacitors, and fully discrete output stages housed
in cast aluminum heat sinks .
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post #733 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 08:11 AM
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To the user having trouble with his PS3:

I don't have a 7002 or 8002, but I do have a PS3 and an Onkyo TX-SR805. Before I had the Onkyo my old receiver had optical and coax digital audio in. My PS3 needed to be set to Bitstream audio out over optical and Blu-ray movies needed to be set for compressed 5.1 out such as plain old Dolby Digital. I got 5.1 sound, but obviously it was the same quality as regular DVDs.

When I installed the Onkyo, I hooked up my PS3 via HDMI and set it for Linear PCM audio out. I set Blu-ray movies to output TrueHD or uncompressed PCM depending on what's available on the disc. My Onkyo shows multichannel on the display and I get full surround sound in very high quality. My Onkyo will not show TrueHD on the display in these situations because it's not handling the decoding. This setting lets the PS3 decode the audio and output PCM to each channel. My understanding is the PS3 currently does not send encoded lossless audio out to be decoded by the receiver.

I'm guessing the situation with your Marantz receivers is similar.

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post #734 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDay View Post

page 2 on the right column.

THX Select 2 certifi ed
7ch amplifi ers have enough power for even the most
diffi cult conditions found in large rooms.
Enormous power reserves endow the system with
substantial dynamic ability at high sound levels.
110 watts (SR7002) / 125 watts (SR8002) to each of
the 7 main channels the power amp section features
an advanced, premium high-storage power supply
capacitors, and fully discrete output stages housed
in cast aluminum heat sinks .

how does that say its rated 2 channels?

Also, anyone get the chance to compare the 7002 to the denon 3808ci? what were your impressions. right now its a dead lock between those two for me because of the farouja scaler and the ability to stream music from my computer. (of course high end FLAC files, not mp3).
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post #735 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 09:16 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDay View Post

page 2 on the right column.

THX Select 2 certifi ed
7ch amplifi ers have enough power for even the most
diffi cult conditions found in large rooms.
Enormous power reserves endow the system with
substantial dynamic ability at high sound levels.
110 watts (SR7002) / 125 watts (SR8002) to each of
the 7 main channels the power amp section features
an advanced, premium high-storage power supply
capacitors, and fully discrete output stages housed
in cast aluminum heat sinks .

yes i read that and thats great - but still dosnt really say if the power is rated with 2 channels driven or all 7 channels driven ? either way i am very happy with it - cant complain so far power wise - i just like to know - usually if an amp is capable - its usually stated - also it states that its good down to 6ohms -- which i though it was capable of handling 4 ohms also - which i dont think is the case - i am not sure if using 4 ohm speakers is a good idea - someone posted here a while back and they were running 4 ohm speakers with out a problem -

i wouldnt want to push it if its not made to be pushed that way - i am curious because i am looking at a center surround bar and some are 4 ohms -
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post #736 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 09:18 AM
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A few of us actually called Marantz and asked them about 4 ohm and they gave it their blessing.
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post #737 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by expresso712 View Post

yes i read that and thats great - but still dosnt really say if the power is rated with 2 channels driven or all 7 channels driven ? either way i am very happy with it - cant complain so far power wise - i just like to know - usually if an amp is capable - its usually stated - also it states that its good down to 6ohms -- which i though it was capable of handling 4 ohms also - which i dont think is the case - i am not sure if using 4 ohm speakers is a good idea - someone posted here a while back and they were running 4 ohm speakers with out a problem -

i wouldnt want to push it if its not made to be pushed that way - i am curious because i am looking at a center surround bar and some are 4 ohms -

I called marantz regarding my rainmaker having 4 ohms, rep says he even have that speaker and it should be fine. BUT to my hearing, it can't really drive it compared with arcam, nad or rotel. Just my 2 cents.
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post #738 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 10:10 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SunnyDay View Post

I called marantz regarding my rainmaker having 4 ohms, rep says he even have that speaker and it should be fine. BUT to my hearing, it can't really drive it compared with arcam, nad or rotel. Just my 2 cents.

i was just a little surprised that its not rated to handle 4 ohms - according to the manual its 8 ohm and 6 ohms -
yeah marantz will say its ok - and under normal conditions and depending on the speaker etc. - it should be fine - but then it depends on you - how it sounds to you etc. --

my old little amp was stable down to 2ohms - if the speakers have a high sensitivity - 98db and higher etc. -

that would help and also you can bi-amp the fronts and see how that sounds with 4 ohm speakers
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post #739 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 10:39 AM
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I'm running a 4ohm load across my front end with my Sr7001 w/o any issues. Sounds pretty good to me, but I don't have anything else to reference it to. I would like to upgrade to separates next time around though...
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post #740 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by expresso712 View Post

i dont see whats so hard to believe - ...

i cant say if you or anyone else would hear this difference that i got from that cord - its not too expensive - compared to some $1000 cords -- which i dont know if at some point it just becomes just wasteful money --

but for $140 - its worth it - and yes i will buy another for my Cd player when i get it and if i am not happy with the stock cord or if its too long - i will get the PS audio punch model -

I also agree there is audible differences using good power cable with good gear. Forgot to answer your question regarding what we use. For our ARC gear, we use their heavy duty cord plugged into PS-AUDIO Ultimate Outlet. The Ultimate was their first products some 7 or 8 years ago. The difference through the ARC was immediate. The noise floor dropped to nil with the PS Ultimate, no soft hiss at all, dead silent.

Regarding your comment about speaker wires not producing changes, it could be the cables are already very high grade so the incremental changes from one to the other is not adding much. It could also be the speakers, especially as they age, are not revealing enough past a certain point so there is little changes. The most likely is the source components. In our experience, cables are important after source components upgrade. FOr a given component performance level, an associated level of improvement in cable choices really bring out the sound. Beyond that, the return becomes marginal.

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post #741 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by biffva View Post

Just curious as to where you found this information? Does your source reveal 7002 and/or 8002 power output for all channels at 8 ohms?

It seems the 8002 has rated power to drive each channel. This comes from the statement, "discrete amplification". Discrete amplification implies each channel is driven with its own completely self-contained circuitry and power source. That means if the amplifier is capable of 7 channels, there will be 7 identical circuits inside to power the channels. Each circuit draws rated power for its own channel use. An example of this will be modular amp like those by Theta or the 150M by ARC and others.

The 8002 also uses a toroidal transformer, yet another hi-end sort of approach. There is a debate that toroidal has its problems but let's ignore all that for here.

The THX Select specification also requires all channels (except LFE) to be "Full Range" meaning all speakers are full range and driven as such.

Finally, the manual, on page 82, calls out each speaker from front to side to back and specifies the power down each channel per speaker. SO may be we can all safely assume it is rated power into each channel?
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post #742 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 01:12 PM
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And of course, in real world, you'll almost never have every channel driven to max at same time unless perhaps in an all channel music mode (haven't played with the 8002 yet to see if it has one)...and even then, most power is used to drive bass. If you're running a powered sub (and who on here isn't?) and filtering low frequency from your mains, then the real world power of this receiver (and most all others in this price range) is probably sufficient for all those that: A) Have neighbors B) Have spouses C)Value their hearing. If you're single, live in the woods and/or are partially deaf...then maybe there's room for improvement

Also consider that the S/N ratio is very good for these Marantz units, better than the Denon/NAD units I reviewed. Frankly to a certain extent, I valued that even more than all channels driven test all else being equal.

From my research, I'd have to run a dedicated 20-30 amp circuit before I could even begin to think of more powerful dedicated amplifier. If you go much above 150wpc, isn't that a requirement just from a sheer power throughput POV?

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post #743 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 03:06 PM
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I just ordered a 7002, should be here on Wed.
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post #744 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 03:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caaudiophile View Post

I also agree there is audible differences using good power cable with good gear. Forgot to answer your question regarding what we use. For our ARC gear, we use their heavy duty cord plugged into PS-AUDIO Ultimate Outlet. The Ultimate was their first products some 7 or 8 years ago. The difference through the ARC was immediate. The noise floor dropped to nil with the PS Ultimate, no soft hiss at all, dead silent.

Regarding your comment about speaker wires not producing changes, it could be the cables are already very high grade so the incremental changes from one to the other is not adding much. It could also be the speakers, especially as they age, are not revealing enough past a certain point so there is little changes. The most likely is the source components. In our experience, cables are important after source components upgrade. FOr a given component performance level, an associated level of improvement in cable choices really bring out the sound. Beyond that, the return becomes marginal.

THis is such a fun hobby if only we can keep the cost down.


yes i agree about the speaker wire -- i have about 3 sets of wiring - and i did hear a little change when i replaced the first set i had which was very old - it was monster but not there higher end type - but it was decent when new - so i did feel the new set of wires helped - then i tried a third set which is new also and a nice decent set - cant complain and between the two newer sets i just got - i didnt hear a difference with those two but did when changing out the very first old monster set - like you said - at some point - everything in the chain is pretty much even with quality etc. so sound difference would be very minor if at all between wires at the same level more or less - i finally took some pictures of my set up which is not done just yet - really not much there - just the 7002 - Belkin Pure AV PF60 - Sony megachanger and my Klipsch - thats it - i will be filling that empty slot with a Marantz CC4001 - i dont have the TV yet -

My cat decided she likes to hang out on the 7002 - i sprayed her a few time with compressed air - and now she stays away -
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post #745 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 03:40 PM
 
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i was trying to add some pictures but they are too large and i cant seem to figure out how to resize them to fit

i cant upload them -
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post #746 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmcdayton View Post

And of course, in real world, you'll almost never have every channel driven to max at same time ......A) Have neighbors B) Have spouses C)Value their hearing. If you're single, live in the woods and/or are partially deaf...then maybe there's room for improvement

Also consider that the S/N ratio is very good for these Marantz units, better than the Denon/NAD units I reviewed. Frankly to a certain extent, I valued that even more than all channels driven test all else being equal.

From my research, I'd have to run a dedicated 20-30 amp circuit before I could even begin to think of more powerful dedicated amplifier. If you go much above 150wpc, isn't that a requirement just from a sheer power throughput POV?

Good post! Well written! The 8002 (and surely the 7002 too) is plenty powerful for its rating. Just playing two channel movie audio (we have no surrounds, no center, no sub) at -20db is way too loud in our 20x30 A/V room. We use at most -23 db for older movie with soft recording.

It is so true that not all channels are driven all at once, especially for movie. For music, that should also be true. I cannot think of a situation where a good sounding recording will have full range blasting from all seven channels. Even if that can be done, how does one hear anything?

My view is that power is not about being loud, it is about being able to control difficult speaker loads. More specifically, the ability to render correct timing and wide dynamics. Music is complex sound information that changes with time. Composers use silence, soft passages as well as mass crescendo to convey intended emotional impact. That means the speakers must be able to reproduce soft passages, silence and full orchestral roar. To do that well and assuming a loudspeaker is capable of doing it, it is then up to the amplifier to rapidly remove power for silence, rapidly provide power for soft passages and rapidly provide more power for loud passages. The ability to do all that, in keeping with the tempo of the music, requires power and distinguishes so-so amplifier from good ones. The high current capability of many hi-end amplifiers do it for these reasons.

The original post was so good, I just have to chime in . We own a 200W tube amp and it pulls 650W on idle, 950W on normal use and 1200W maximum. It requires a dedicated 20A circuit, exactly as dmcdayton said. It can surely destroy our ear drums but that misses the point. We value its sound quality and its ability to drive difficult speaker load with authority.

The 8002 sounded very good driving a pair of 4-ohm 90% sensitivity full-range monitors. I have not tried it with seven channels of 4-ohm loads. If that ever happens, will post our experience.
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post #747 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 04:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefiantGSR View Post

does marantz rate their power running 2 channels or all channels?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Southern Spy View Post

2 channels

So the answer is Marantz rates their power running each of the 7 channels on the 7002 & 8002. Unless Southern Spy knows something that hasn't been shared on this thread.

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post #748 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 06:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by biffva View Post

So the answer is Marantz rates their power running each of the 7 channels on the 7002 & 8002. Unless Southern Spy knows something that hasn't been shared on this thread.

well i think its still not clear and cut - i understand all channels are the same and are stated to handle certain power for each channel - it wont bother me either way because the sound is great and its very powerful - i just like to know and alot of others also and marantz dosnt seem to just say it - if it is or not --

what i think others want to know and myself is -

when they say its 110 a channel - how do they test the power rating --

is it tested with 2 channels fully driven and then give that rating - or do they test it with all 7 channels driven and maxed out and then say this is the rating -

its really simple - they can just say what it is - some other brands say it - if its 2 channels driven or all channels driven - some say even a high power output with only one channel driven - but then its much less when its in real use with 2 channels or more -

i rather know the true power output with all channels driven - even if its 80wpc - if its a solid true 80 wpc - that would be great also - i think the 7002 and 8002 are most likely all channels driven - but i am not sure - and the manual isnt clear with that part - yes each amp is the same and each amp can push out 110 wpc and 125 wpc - but if all channels are pushed at the same time - would it still be 110wpc and 125wpc ?? thats what i like to know and others --

even though it may not happen in the real world where all the channels are driven hard all at once etc. - and its not just about being loud - because the units are very clean and detailed - that it does sound louder than my older amp rated at 205wpc and 300wpc at 4 ohms etc.

i noticed right away when i got the 7002 was that it was so clean compared to my older amp - that at first - it seems to be weaker and not as loud - but once i listened for a few days and put it on Source direct since i only have two speakers fronts and listen to music - then i got used to it and realized how much better it really was and cleaner and very loud - no distortion i noticed even down to 0db - which i couldnt leave there for long - i am in an apt. so but -10db is plenty loud for music -

i guess we just like to know since so many other brands tell you what it is - its just nice to know - and about the 4ohm loads - i would think its ok to push 4 ohm speakers - just keep it clear and cool - you may get much much hotter - mines gets pretty warm when pushed - but nothing to be worried about at all -
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post #749 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by expresso712 View Post

well i think its still not clear and cut - .... -

Do you know how these solid state amplifiers work? As you wrote, something does not jive. I am not EE expert but a simplistic computation shows there is insufficient power??

The manual says 125W into 8 ohms per channel for all 7. That is 875W total. Then the spec also says the unit draws only 6.7A, 120V which means 804W at best. What happens to the other 71W needed to drive all 7 channels to specified power? Has anyone heard from Marantz on this?

At 160W into 6 ohms, that is a whopping 1120W for all 7 channels! At 804W draw from the wall socket, where is the rest of the wattage? Where is the reserve?

Is Marantz claiming 4-ohm capable just to make sales? Or may be the support people just do not know and simply said yes?

I agree with you too that Marantz should just come out and say how it rates the power into each channel. It will be bad for people to accidentally fry their 7002 or 8002 driving 4-ohms; then will Marantz honor the warranty?

We will stay with two channels for a long time so the 4-ohm limits will not hurt.
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post #750 of 5086 Old 01-04-2008, 07:12 PM
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the Marantz reps are not just claiming 4ohm stability to make some sales. I'm running a pair of Onix Reference 1's and an Onix Reference 100 across my front end. They are all 4ohm speakers and are fine.
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