new marantz sr7002, sr8002 receivers - Page 94 - AVS Forum
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post #2791 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mahdlokg View Post

The questions I have are:

1. Has Marantz come up with a firmware fix for the problem as have Onkyo and Yamaha?
2. If so, what is the firmware version?
3. Has anyone with a 8002/7002 sent their units in to have the FW updated?
4. Are newer units shipping with the "bug" fixed?

That's what I'm trying to figure out with my inquiries...there is definatly more than one firmware version out...
Mine is:
SR 7002
V070919 2U

B1 10708201
B2 20708231
HDMI Ver h.33
It came from the factory with this version; I bought it in March.

The reported initial firmware was: (by member chano22000)
SR 7002
V070903 2N

B1 10708201
B2 20708231
HDMI Ver.h30

My concern is from what I can tell only one person is reporting this issue. I have no way to test it at this point because I haven't bought a BD player yet, but frankly if we confirm this issue, I'll be the first to call complaining to get a FW update.

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post #2792 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:13 AM
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I have a Samsung BD-P1400 which has Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD. I am bitstreaming to my 8002, but the 8002 just displayes Dolby digital for TrueHD, and DTS for DTS-HD. Why wouldn't the display on the 8002 let you know that its HD? How do I know that I am getting lossless audio? I tried the display button on the remote, and messed with the settings on the Samsung. What other setting would matter on the samsung besides bitstreaming? It is very frustrating considering the amount of mony I spent on both BD player and processor to get the new codecs, and I don't even know I am getting them.

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post #2793 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

I have a Samsung BD-P1400 which has Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD. I am bitstreaming to my 8002, but the 8002 just displayes Dolby digital for TrueHD, and DTS for DTS-HD. Why wouldn't the display on the 8002 let you know that its HD? How do I know that I am getting lossless audio? I tried the display button on the remote, and messed with the settings on the Samsung. What other setting would matter on the samsung besides bitstreaming? It is very frustrating considering the amount of mony I spent on both BD player and processor to get the new codecs, and I don't even know I am getting them.

I assume you are using HDMI...
1. Do you have the most recent FW for the Samsung?
2. Are you sure it is set to "bitstream" in the menu?
3. Do you have Surround mode set to auto?
4. When you press 7 on the remote to cycle through the display what does is acutally say (in text) on the display?

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post #2794 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:28 AM
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I haven't upgraded the Samsung, but I've only had it a couple months, and the display on the Samsung says it is using the correct format. The Samsung is set to bitstream. The receiver is on auto. When I press 7 on the remote, it says Dolby Digital, when it should be TrueHD, and DTS when it should be DTS-HD. The only thing I can think of is that my $100 Monster HDMI is about 1 and 1/2 years old, and may not be version 1.3 (I bought it before I realized you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good HDMI). I talked to some tech guy online that told me that a monster cable would almost certainly handle 1.3, whether is is certified 1.3 or not. Is this bad info?

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post #2795 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

I don't think it's fair to take it out on Marantz when this issue is related to a combination of the TI chip/DSP AND certain discs, especially when it got past Marantz, Onkyo, Integra and Yamaha. Having the FW user-upgradable is a different issue and a valid complaint, for some people. Personally, I'll take the Marantz over ANY Onkyo.

Might consider taking the less expensive of the two. Once the DTS bomb blow out your speakers they'll both sound the same.

If you send it in to avoid the bomb, the slience you hear for a month waiting for some tech to perform a 5 minute update will also sound the same.
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post #2796 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpmcgarry View Post

That's what I'm trying to figure out with my inquiries...there is definatly more than one firmware version out...
Mine is:
SR 7002
V070919 2U

B1 10708201
B2 20708231
HDMI Ver h.33
It came from the factory with this version; I bought it in March.

The reported initial firmware was: (by member chano22000)
SR 7002
V070903 2N

B1 10708201
B2 20708231
HDMI Ver.h30

My concern is from what I can tell only one person is reporting this issue. I have no way to test it at this point because I haven't bought a BD player yet, but frankly if we confirm this issue, I'll be the first to call complaining to get a FW update.

We played 300 HD via a tosh xa2 via btstream on my 8002 last week and my family first heard a thud on my right speaker(i stepped out),attempted to reproduce but it didnt do it again.I then heard one myself about 30-45 min later on the same right speaker.Again attempted to reproduce it again and it wouldnt.It was a loud quick thud.I have the HDMI ver. h33. so i dont know whats going on.If its only to certain dvd's or what.We had played one of the Bourne HD movies a cpl of weeks ago and no problems(thud).
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post #2797 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

I haven't upgraded the Samsung, but I've only had it a couple months, and the display on the Samsung says it is using the correct format. The Samsung is set to bitstream. The receiver is on auto. When I press 7 on the remote, it says Dolby Digital, when it should be TrueHD, and DTS when it should be DTS-HD. The only thing I can think of is that my $100 Monster HDMI is about 1 and 1/2 years old, and may not be version 1.3 (I bought it before I realized you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good HDMI). I talked to some tech guy online that told me that a monster cable would almost certainly handle 1.3, whether is is certified 1.3 or not. Is this bad info?

you're cable should be fine...all type-A cables have the 19 pins you need...
Maybe try over at the owner's thread for your BD Player...I know that people have had this working with the 7002/8002. Perhaps you could try that FW upgrade?

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post #2798 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aydu View Post

Might consider taking the less expensive of the two. Once the DTS bomb blow out your speakers they'll both sound the same.

If you send it in to avoid the bomb, the slience you hear for a month waiting for some tech to perform a 5 minute update will also sound the same.


I don't need to worry about the DTS bomb because I'm not hung up on bitstreaming. I'm happy to decode in the player.

Also, I could care less if the Onkyo is cheaper. It's also an inferior product, IMO. Shall I go over to the Onkyo thread to quote all the issues they've had? Maybe it's necessary to have user-upgradable FW because the manufacturer knows there are lots of issues with the product that will need to be resolved on an ongoing basis. I'm tired of people taking the 'best value' defense of Onkyo.

If you have nothing to constructive to contribute why don't you refrain from posting in this thread?
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post #2799 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post

We played 300 HD via a tosh xa2 via btstream on my 8002 last week and my family first heard a thud on my right speaker(i stepped out),attempted to reproduce but it didnt do it again.I then heard one myself about 30-45 min later on the same right speaker.Again attempted to reproduce it again and it wouldnt.It was a loud quick thud.I have the HDMI ver. h33. so i dont know whats going on.If its only to certain dvd's or what.We had played one of the Bourne HD movies a cpl of weeks ago and no problems(thud).

Do you know the rest of your FW versions...I suspect one of those three number might be related to the alleged DSP.

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post #2800 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

I don't think it's fair to take it out on Marantz when this issue is related to a combination of the TI chip/DSP AND certain discs, especially when it got past Marantz, Onkyo, Integra and Yamaha. Having the FW user-upgradable is a different issue and a valid complaint, for some people. Personally, I'll take the Marantz over ANY Onkyo.

Do you call the SR8002 an audiophile's receiver or a videophile's receiver? May we suggest that the answer is simply Yes?

Do you think? Not I. My opinion is that the building frustration with these "bugs" is much more than justified. I have been considering an 8002 purchase since they were first announced, but my better judgment dictated that I wait. I am glad I have. Class action? Maybe a little much, but not by too far...I will return to that issue latter.

Friends, these units are expensive, we forgo small vacations (or more important things) to put them in our homes, and when they arrive, they do not work as advertised. I will go so far as to say that some of your wives have had it up to their necks with unending upgrades that result in big disappointments (if you admit to them that the new dream machine isn't what it should be). It is time to quit working around faulty R&D for these companies and hold them responsible for their inaccurate claims.

I don't believe that these bugs just "get past" these companies; but for a moment let's pretend that they do. If they just get by, then they do not rigorously test their units under real world conditions. Instead, they are happy to let us poor saps do that for them, and suffer the disappointments. That tells me quite a bit about how much they care about their patrons.

I think the more likely scenario is that they build quickly, add the latest features to past products, ARE FULLY AWARE of potential problems, (although engineering around them would cut into the bottom line too substantially) and ship them to you and I. How do they get away with that? Because they know that we will attempt to do their job for them by finding creative work arounds. Bottom line, if we continue to support ANY of these companies in this fashion, we will ALWAYS be disappointed. I posted sometime ago Onkyo's broken promise to support a so-called "future proof" component (TX-NR1000) @ $5K retail. A typical example.

Back to the lawsuit. They deserve it but, it would take time and money, and in the mean time, you are stuck with a disappointing machine. Let me suggest a far simpler solution, go to the basement and find the unit the Marantz replaced and hook it back up. Send the new Marantz back for a refund, not a fix, with a letter explaining how disappointed you are. Add a statement that says you MIGHT consider doing business again when the products WORK EXACTLY AS PROMISED, not just close.

I would like to suggest that everyone do this, no lawyers, not much time, and properly conveys the message: Quit sending out flawed products at outrageous prices. If Marantz (and others) begin to understand we will no longer do their jobs for them, maybe they will.

Anyone from AVS or Marantz like to chime in? Would you like to help your customers (at your inconvenience instead of ours)? Do you really care? Remember, our only obligation as customers is to enjoy, not to find a way to make these things do what they should do. I wonder how Saul Marantz would handle this?
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post #2801 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 12:06 PM
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1. I consider it an Audiophile's receiver. Video can be handled at either the source or display. Audio associated with video can also be handled at the source. I bought the 7002 because of the way it SOUNDS with music. It was my primary concern and remains so.

2. When have I ever said I was disappointed with my 7002?

3. Of course we should expect a product to come out without bugs but that's not the world we live in. Are you suggesting we should sue the computer industry as well? They're the ones that pioneered the 'release it and we'll use the users to debug it' mentality.

4. I am sure that some bugs are known prior to release and I'm also sure that some go out unnoticed. They're sophisticated computers now, now just power supplies and a few circuits.



I'm really not looking to argue over this. All I did was state that there was a work-around for people who choose to use it. If people want to suggest suing the companies or that other brands are better because they have user-upgradable FW then fine. That has nothing to do with the fact that I suggested a work-around., though.
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post #2802 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 01:09 PM
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RolandOG,

I was not picking on your post and your suggested work around is valuable. The post just happened to illustrate some developing viewpoints.

Like you, an argument is certainly not what I am looking for in this. And, as I indicated, neither I am saying I think a lawsuit is the answer (although some may believe it is and they may well have legal standing).

Just three things to clarify:

1. These units should work as they are advertised to work. Customers that accept less only encourage companies to do less.

2. Why is it that users can uncover these issues within a day of receiving their units, and if they can, why can't the laboratories that produce these products? These are not exactly subtle little issues. The features people pay for are not working.

3. As long as we accept that this is just the way things are, companies will continue to conduct business as usual. (Why not really puff up the performance claims? We'll just offer a fix down the line for those who will jump through the hoops to get them).

People have different thresholds of tolerance for less than promised performance for the goods and services they buy. Mine is very low (especially for discretionary purchases at these price points).

The most powerful statement consumers can make is to vote with their feet. I will be interested to observe how Marantz treats those of you who have voted for them. You have a right to all that you paid for, and to expect that they jump through the hoops.
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post #2803 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 03:59 PM
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Agent and Aydu,

Sorry if I took the tone of your posts the wrong way and responded poorly. While the sentiment of what I said is still my POV, I could have expressed it better.

I'll say again that I agree the products should work as advertised. I just think it's unrealistic to believe they can catch everything. This TI issue only occurs on certain discs and at certain time(s) on said disc. How would they know to test for that?

Anyway, I hope they address it via FW but I'm not going to get angry if they don't. Disappointed, yes, but not angry. I definitely won't be disappointed in my 7002 itself.
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post #2804 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 04:37 PM
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Hi all, I still have the rental "Golden Compass" that gave three thuds. We are buying our own copy on Friday. We are also expecting a few new BluRay discs to arrive on Friday. I will play those with DTS HD Master sound track this weekend. If a disc does have thuds, I will log the time and try it again to see if it repeats at exactly the same spot. Will report back here when done.
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post #2805 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nrbellj View Post

I have a Harmony One, and it also has problems properly controlling my 8002. I've already had one round of "tweaks" by the tech staff, but it isn't much better. Like you, my Marantz remote works perfectly, so I know it isn't the receiver that's the problem. I don't know whether it's the strength of the signal or the timing that is the problem, but it almost has to be one of them. I suspect that the duration of the signal from the Logitech is overwhelming the receiver; when I get some free time I was planning on playing around with the settings to see if things don't improve. At some point, I would expect enough folks will contact Logitech that sooner or later they'll figure out some optimal settings for Marantz equipment.

I just resolved the issue with my Logitech 880 universal remote needing to be very carefully aimed at my Marantz 8002 for reliable control. It appears that the Marantz 7002/8002 has a very narrow IR beam acceptance angle (tunnel vision).

There is nothing wrong with the pulse timing on the Logitech remotes. I suspect that the Marantz remote has more than one transmit LED and one is positioned to beam forward when the remote is pointed upward unlike the Logitech.

I just purchased a Xantech 291-10 IR receiver for about $35 plus shipping. This small unit has the proper plug, and specifications to plug directly into the IR receiver-in receptacle on the back of the 7002/8002. No power supply or power plug is required.

It comes with a 7 foot cord. Just plug it into the Marantz and place it where the remote can see it. My Logitech now works flawlessly with the 8002 even if I point it vertically at the ceiling, the floor or at a 45 degree horizontal angle from the receiver. The Xantech receiver is sitting on top of the 8002 and 16 feet away from my seating location.
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post #2806 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dpmcgarry View Post

I looked around for the actual Model Number of the TI DSP in our recievers and the Denons, Yamahas, and Onkyos without much avail. I'll keep looking, but if anyone has a high res picture of the inside of any of these recievers or can find the actual model number of the DSP listed somewhere let me know! I'll keep looking...

http://www.marantz.jp/ce/products/ho...002/index.html
TI TMS320DA708 is in SR8002.
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post #2807 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:17 PM
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Imagine if Microsoft had each PC owner mail in their processor every time there was an operating system update or patch.

All of the manufacturers have relied on an old operating model that firmware would likely change during a model's production run, but that existing products would go along without update.

The advent of HDMI and the new sound formats have shown this operating model of product support to be no longer adequate. Updating the firmware will require them to move some dollars from the profit column to development work. As painful as that will be, it is necessary.

Asking people to send in their 50-70 pound receivers for a simple update task is sheer foolishness. For companies like Marantz, that tightly control their dealer network, they should provide updates to their dealers and pay for them to come out and install them.

You pay top dollar for products like Marantz. You should get the service to go along with the price. Today, I feel there is a service gap.
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post #2808 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [unique] View Post

Great post mate, especially the difference between the audyssey versions interested me. I got a very crappy room acoustically, and am guessing i really need the eq xt from audyssey.
[snip]
Denon might be a good idea, but many people dont seem to like their sound.. seeing your quite happy with it i guess it might be my best choice aswell.
Wonder if denon is coming out with new amps soon though?!

*IF* Marantz allowed me to upgrade the FW, I would have stuck with it. All my players (Samsung 1400, Toshiba XA2, PS3 etc.) pump out nice video. No need to upscale at the AVR.

The RS SPL calibrated sound on Marantz sounded very nice to me (but MultEQ didn't sound so hot). So clearly Denon does a better job (as it should with much more filters available in XT).

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #2809 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandOG View Post

I don't think it's fair to take it out on Marantz when this issue is related to a combination of the TI chip/DSP AND certain discs, especially when it got past Marantz, Onkyo, Integra and Yamaha. Having the FW user-upgradable is a different issue and a valid complaint, for some people. Personally, I'll take the Marantz over ANY Onkyo.


I would agree about it not being Marantz's fault. *BUT* they should clearly address it on their site. You're affected, you're not affected, there's a FW fix on the way etc. They have always been squeamish about releasing....er....release notes.

I suppose they have to pay the service center for each update so they are trying to minimize the need for an upgrade.

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #2810 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky1 View Post

We played 300 HD via a tosh xa2 via btstream on my 8002 last week and my family first heard a thud on my right speaker(i stepped out),attempted to reproduce but it didnt do it again.I then heard one myself about 30-45 min later on the same right speaker.Again attempted to reproduce it again and it wouldnt.It was a loud quick thud.I have the HDMI ver. h33. so i dont know whats going on.If its only to certain dvd's or what.We had played one of the Bourne HD movies a cpl of weeks ago and no problems(thud).


300 doesn't have Master Audio codec right? So you can't possibly be hitting this bug. In fact, I don't know any HD-DVD that has Master Audio.

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #2811 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave98svt View Post

I haven't upgraded the Samsung, but I've only had it a couple months, and the display on the Samsung says it is using the correct format. The Samsung is set to bitstream. The receiver is on auto. When I press 7 on the remote, it says Dolby Digital, when it should be TrueHD, and DTS when it should be DTS-HD. The only thing I can think of is that my $100 Monster HDMI is about 1 and 1/2 years old, and may not be version 1.3 (I bought it before I realized you don't have to spend a fortune to get a good HDMI). I talked to some tech guy online that told me that a monster cable would almost certainly handle 1.3, whether is is certified 1.3 or not. Is this bad info?


You most definitely should upgrade the FW on the 1400. But just to be clear, you are picking the high def audio option in the movies? Many default to DD5.1 or (normal) DTS. I have 1400 and had the 8002. It worked just fine.

Thanks,
Hansang
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post #2812 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by hansangb View Post

300 doesn't have Master Audio codec right? So you can't possibly be hitting this bug. In fact, I don't know any HD-DVD that has Master Audio.

It has true hd and dolby digital plus.
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post #2813 of 5097 Old 05-15-2008, 10:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hansangb View Post


I suppose they have to pay the service center for each update so they are trying to minimize the need for an upgrade.

You have a good point. They may be trying to keeps costs down as there is a rumored sale in the works of D&M Holdings. The have had layoffs at Boston Acoustics.

Here's more D&M news:

http://news.google.com/news?q=d%26M%...=1&sa=N&tab=wn
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post #2814 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 01:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hansangb View Post

300 doesn't have Master Audio codec right? So you can't possibly be hitting this bug. In fact, I don't know any HD-DVD that has Master Audio.

Pans Labyrinth has DTS Master HD. I havent heard any "Bomb" on that one though...

BUT, I´ve also experienced some "thudding" sounds when bitstreaming Dolby True HD from my Toshiba EP35 --> SR7002, on some of my HD DVD movies (for example Happy Feet, Harry Potter).

I´m fairly certain these are NOT related to the "DTS Bomb"-bug, since the "thuds" arent that loud (even though they are notacible every time...), but its still strange, and quite annoying, that I´m recieving them!? Its also very hard to determine when they occur, since it seems to happen completely at random occasions, and if I try to rewind the movie to check for the bug again, its doesn´t occur!

For example: in my copy of "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets" (HD DVD, with bitstreamed Dolby True HD), I heard a "thudding"-sound from my speakers maybe 30 minutes into the movie. I then immediately rewind it back a couple of seconds, but then it didnt happen...!? Very weird...?

Also, if I change to PCM instead of bitstream on my Toshiba, the "thud"-sounds NEVER occur! So I dont know if theres a bug in my Marantz or my Toshiba really (cant try bitstreamed Blu-ray, since the PS3 only delivers PCM), but it would be interesting to find out...

Anyway, not really a huge problem, since it occurs very seldom and the "thuds" arent that high in volume (they not gonna harm my speakers), but if someone experiences the same thing, it would be nice to know your impressions/opinions!
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post #2815 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 04:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cmaniahd View Post

dmcdayton,

I got my new 8002 yesterday and i ran the auto setup. After measurement, SW section shows +6dB, which was -3dB with my old SR7500. I checked the volume of SW and it's as it was. Is this alright? If i add up +9dB section, it will be +15dB which will be fairly high. I'm in Korea and I got just yesterday so there maybe a chance that Marantz fix the SW section problem, but i'm not sure.

I have monitor audio RS12SW subwoofer, and i know the Audyssey measurements will be different for each one's speakers and environment, but what is the normal measuremt value for SW section?

Thanks a lot for your knowledge and sharings.

Would you be able to check and post the firmware version of your receiver, please?

The method to obtain the FW version was given several posts earlier. I've pasted it here.


How to display SR7002 & SR8002 firmware version

To enter service menu and display fimware versions, push simultaneously the three buttons "Pure Direct", "7.1CH INPUT" and "M-DAX" on the front panel for more than three seconds.
Push "Enter" to display the next line.

The initial firmware for the SR7002 (which includes the "SW 9dB" bug)
SR 7002
V070903 2N
(********** - serial number)
B1 10708201
B2 20708231
HDMI Ver.h30

Manendra

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who hate the Klan
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post #2816 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 04:37 AM
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Has anyone actually send in their SR7002 or SR8002 for the firmware update??
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post #2817 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 06:30 AM
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Has anyone actually send in their SR7002 or SR8002 for the firmware update??

AFAIK, there is no FW update available.

Doug
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post #2818 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by moviegoer View Post

http://www.marantz.jp/ce/products/ho...002/index.html
TI TMS320DA708 is in SR8002.

Great catch!!!
I wonder what chip Yamaha and Onkyo are using...

Don
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post #2819 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caaudiophile View Post

Hi all, I still have the rental "Golden Compass" that gave three thuds. We are buying our own copy on Friday. We are also expecting a few new BluRay discs to arrive on Friday. I will play those with DTS HD Master sound track this weekend. If a disc does have thuds, I will log the time and try it again to see if it repeats at exactly the same spot. Will report back here when done.
Cal

What's your FW version?

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post #2820 of 5097 Old 05-16-2008, 09:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dpmcgarry View Post

Great catch!!!
I wonder what chip Yamaha and Onkyo are using...

Onkyos use 3 chips: one TMS320DA710, one TMS320DA708, and one TMS320DA707. Check this article out for lots of circuit info.
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